The problem with dwayna's sorrow, is it's only effective when the minions die. Which will happen at the beginning of the battle. Because usually battles go like this. First you aggro, minions rush forward, hero casts sorrow on minions they all go poof. Party has hardly taken any damage and now all their heals are gone because all the minions absorbed most of the damage.
So relying on dwayna's sorrow is pointless, because it should not be providing that much healing to begin with for most battles. Note, I said relying on it, not that you should not take it. But your going to need more heals because most of the damage your going to take is when dwayna's won't be helping your health.
fixing PvX discordway
MercenaryKnight
Super Igor
But the huge heal at the time you aggro is what you need, making aggroing basically fail safe. I know you shouldnt rely on it as your only heal bu the sheer ammount of damage it can absorb is amazing.
MercenaryKnight
Upier, some people run discordway with a partner or in 4 man areas. Thus there are no hench to add. In such a case, you usually have 2 resto healers then whatever you want for 6hero. 3 hero is generally 1 resto, 1 curse/ support and then the minion bomber with whatever you want.
I agree that dwayna's sorrow can help, but in places where your in hm and they have a decent aoe they generally kill minions very quickly and then when most of them are dead, they start focusing on the party. So the heal is usually minimal, but useful non the less.
I run 6 discord heroes. Generally the split is 2 curser discords, 2 minion bombers with protection spells, 2 restoration ritualists. The reason is, me and my partner are lazy and as such, don't want to have a separate 3man build to run incase of splitting or doing our own missions/ quests. So having doubles of both means we can effectively split and still have everything we need, as well as having double prot spirits and aegis' together.
I agree that dwayna's sorrow can help, but in places where your in hm and they have a decent aoe they generally kill minions very quickly and then when most of them are dead, they start focusing on the party. So the heal is usually minimal, but useful non the less.
I run 6 discord heroes. Generally the split is 2 curser discords, 2 minion bombers with protection spells, 2 restoration ritualists. The reason is, me and my partner are lazy and as such, don't want to have a separate 3man build to run incase of splitting or doing our own missions/ quests. So having doubles of both means we can effectively split and still have everything we need, as well as having double prot spirits and aegis' together.
upier
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Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
The reason is, me and my partner are lazy and as such, don't want to have a separate 3man build to run incase of splitting or doing our own missions/ quests.
The bolded part is the money shot.
If the point is to create an optimal build - then laziness can not be a factor.
Lazy people won't have problems with the current Discord-wiki build.
That's why I suggested to create variations of the Discord necro that work - and the people can then fill up their party with the required Discord necro depending on what role they need to fill. If they are running with a partner - then they'll obviously need some skills that will make the bars go up. But like I said - to take a necro playing that role is a waste if one is playing with 2 monk hench.
And like I also said - 4 man areas are once again a completely different story. You once again need certain roles to be filled - and obviously not bringing a hero that pushes red bars up isn't the way to go.
If people want it easy - they can stick to shitty builds that include the 4 traits I listed: high Death, reasonably high SR, conditions/hexes, Discord. PvE is easy - so there won't be an issue if one is running an sub-par build.
This thread on the other hand aims to create an above average build.
And considering that most of the time we were talking about 1 player + 3 heroes + 4 hench - certain things are a waste. Resto being one of them.
So seriously - if the point of this thread is to be linked if anyone asks anything about Discord-way - then it would be best if builds posted came with a description on the number of heroes ran, the party size, ...
I mean - as noted before - Sabway has a 4-man and an 8-man version.
Discord would need to have AT LEAST two versions then also.
Just state which version you are working on - and this will make it easier to see which roles one has to fill thus make things easier regarding commenting and suggesting changes.
If the point is to create an optimal build - then laziness can not be a factor.
Lazy people won't have problems with the current Discord-wiki build.
That's why I suggested to create variations of the Discord necro that work - and the people can then fill up their party with the required Discord necro depending on what role they need to fill. If they are running with a partner - then they'll obviously need some skills that will make the bars go up. But like I said - to take a necro playing that role is a waste if one is playing with 2 monk hench.
And like I also said - 4 man areas are once again a completely different story. You once again need certain roles to be filled - and obviously not bringing a hero that pushes red bars up isn't the way to go.
If people want it easy - they can stick to shitty builds that include the 4 traits I listed: high Death, reasonably high SR, conditions/hexes, Discord. PvE is easy - so there won't be an issue if one is running an sub-par build.
This thread on the other hand aims to create an above average build.
And considering that most of the time we were talking about 1 player + 3 heroes + 4 hench - certain things are a waste. Resto being one of them.
So seriously - if the point of this thread is to be linked if anyone asks anything about Discord-way - then it would be best if builds posted came with a description on the number of heroes ran, the party size, ...
I mean - as noted before - Sabway has a 4-man and an 8-man version.
Discord would need to have AT LEAST two versions then also.
Just state which version you are working on - and this will make it easier to see which roles one has to fill thus make things easier regarding commenting and suggesting changes.
daze
what do you mean?? warrios should have [asuran scan] which is a perfectly spammable hex.
Daesu
Upier you forgot that heroes do not use most of the skills in the protection line well, no matter how good the skills are their AI puts a real limit on their effective use. Aegis is fool proof, and PS is workable with unlimited energy. Very few of the protection spells are actually used in the right way by heroes.
Healing is generally needed, even Sab recognized that long ago, while Aegis only deals with very specific threats. The problem with runeless Mhenlo and Lina is that they run out of energy too easily and there is a huge gap in performance between Mhenlo and a good N/Rt restoration healer.
I recommend you try the hench healers as the only healers for HM Slavers and see just how well they perform.
Healing is generally needed, even Sab recognized that long ago, while Aegis only deals with very specific threats. The problem with runeless Mhenlo and Lina is that they run out of energy too easily and there is a huge gap in performance between Mhenlo and a good N/Rt restoration healer.
I recommend you try the hench healers as the only healers for HM Slavers and see just how well they perform.
MercenaryKnight
There really is no such thing as an optimal discordway. Because in reality, if your running discordway with 6 heroes and 2 ap callers, hexes do not need removing and even if you bring hex removal in pve they spam you with hexes. Conditions don't affect casters, except dazed which is hardly ever in pve and we already have mend body and soul.
Besides that, protective spirit is useful and aegis is useful because ai can actually use it. So that's really all you need is those 2 protective spells and red bars go up skills.
Then of course, enfeebling blood/ shadow of fear for the requirements and that's all. Everything else really can't be optimized because all you need is more healing.
Besides that, protective spirit is useful and aegis is useful because ai can actually use it. So that's really all you need is those 2 protective spells and red bars go up skills.
Then of course, enfeebling blood/ shadow of fear for the requirements and that's all. Everything else really can't be optimized because all you need is more healing.
Turbobusa
Depends.
Either you reduce the threat each mob represents w/ curses or you outheal the damage the deal.
One will break much faster than the other.
Either you reduce the threat each mob represents w/ curses or you outheal the damage the deal.
One will break much faster than the other.
Super Igor
Quote:
Originally Posted by upier
If the build has too much Prot - you drop it for something else.
Something else doesn't include Healing or Resto. Prot will outperform both lines when running two monk hench - so if the stronger line isn't needed - there is no reason to take the weaker ones.
Go mesmer for interrupts/AV, go ele for wards/slowdowns, go channeling for Splinter/AR, ...
Face it, all prot = bad, all heal = bad. Resto is good because its both prot and heal in one attribute line, weapon of warding is amazing unstrippable block, enough to make mobs cry, pwk is good armor bonus for squishy necores and nice fast party wide heal, life is up to 120 party wide heal, if a batle lasts 20 seconds it is very helpful + spirit, not that there are a lot of good spirits...mend body and soul is unconditional healing and great condition removal all of it you must have because when we are speaking of henchies they are bad at removing conditions and never provide a decent party-wide heal which is fail, as for prots, they have enough prots so all you really need is microable copy of prot spirit and aegis but you dont need 3 of each!!!
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Unless of course you are running one of the Discord guys as the second healer - thus taking only one monk hench. The problem of course is that the hench monks (minus the obvious lack of expected skills - such as condition/hex removal) are among the best hench available. Or better yet - they aren't among the worst. (Especially after the AI update which turned all hench into pussies who refuse to attack (Guard!??! On a warrior!?? WTF!??!) Whereas making one Discord guy into a Resto means you now have 3 party slots that you need to fill with some pretty sub-par stuff. Why dont you take monks still eh? Dont see any problem here when you have a skill that kills everything. Taking 9000 prot skills aint an option, lol 3 copies of aegis, kay, you may get killed slower but will get killed anyway. Overkill on prot is lame, I'd better have microable prot and heal so I dont have to rely on henchies.
upier
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Originally Posted by Daesu
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I never denied that - I actually said that.
Quote: Originally Posted by Daesu
Healing is generally needed, even Sab recognized that long ago, while Aegis only deals with very specific threats. The problem with runeless Mhenlo and Lina is that they run out of energy too easily and there is a huge gap in performance between Mhenlo and a good N/Rt restoration healer.I recommend you try the hench healers as the only healers for HM Slavers and see just how well they perform.
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Im not bad.
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A build that will be worse then a specific 4-man build and at the same time be worse then a specific 8-man build? Just so that lazy people don't need to think/re-spec when they jump between 4-man and 8-man areas?
Prot overkill isnt effective and is more of personal preferense/variant than an actual build. Besides discordway usually doesnt include stuff that has little effect in 4 man as Ive mentioned above. Quote:
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