fixing PvX discordway

Id could join the contest but i left my microscope at home. You need to get better at this game before you can enter the contest daze.


On a similar note, was it you who suggested br on pvx discordway build page? Made people lol.

Upier, you do know that vanquishing doesn't really prove anything nowadays right? -55DP pop in a powerstone and behold, everyone in the team has 10% morale boost! Furthermore, that area has a siege for you to use if you want to cheat. So I have never asked anyone to prove a build by proving vanquishing, I only asked you to try it out between a hench healer and a restore healer.

Anyway, it looks like your heroes have all died before since they would ended with morale boosts from the bosses there if they hadn't. I believed I had better results when I vanquished long time ago, without even using the siege. Dying doesn't really prove anything either. It's very easy to die almost anywhere by rushing, not pulling a HUGE mob or being ambushed from behind by a patrol.

If he used a resto instead, I honestly doubt he'd experience much different results. Playing smart >>>>>> than using one or the other. From my experience (and I've tried both ways) I honestly can't tell the difference in defensive abilities between the two.

So I have never asked anyone to prove a build by proving vanquishing, I only asked you to try it out between a hench healer and a restore healer. I actually entered the map twice.
The first time - and having vanquished half the map with that team, before running into Charr - I managed to forget to add Mhenlo.
Which means our ONLY source of healing was Linas DF bonus, Dismiss Condition, Cure Hex, Zealous Benediction and the self-healing skills that hench carry.
The heavy degen guys that you asked to be used as proving ground were as easy as anything else I had played against.
Basically I went against them with NO healer and you are saying that two monk hench aren't good enough and you need to take a hero that does the healing instead?
Keep in ming that that was achieved by a guy that pretty much never does HM. Imagine the godly results if a pro would do it instead!

Seriously - if Mhenlo and Lina do not provide sufficient healing there - you're doing it wrong.


(And yes, we did die a few times. Like I said - Firestor/Shower is too much for the AI to handle, Molotov surprised us, Aiden loved being obstructed and the idea to actually take down the Dominators first hit me WAAAAY to late. But we used your heavy degen guys to remove the DP instead of them being the testing grounds.)

Don't bother.
Virulence is single target - outside of Disease - and requires the target to already be under a condition. Which means the condition-requirement for Discord is already fulfilled thus by running Virulence you just add further conditions on the same target. Which isn't needed - but the fact that this takes up your elite slot and has a 15 sec recharge, actually hurts you since this means you can't run a better elite.
If you need more conditions - just throw Enfeeble on a few bars - it recharges insanely fast and has a superb cast time. Plus even with next to 0 in Curses - lasts long enough to nuke the target with Discord. (I actually prefer it to Enfeebling Blood.)


Here is the thing I am wondering - if you run 6 necros - does it even make sense to bring Discord on all of the guys?
I mean if you run AP+YMLD!+FH! + some 4 Discords - that will kill most of the things because that's some 600 damage. The two guys that are healers (be it resto or healing) thus free up some 10+ attribute ranks worth of points by not going Discord. And those can then be wasted on additional lines or to just improve the main attributes.
Especially since you want the healers to heal - and when they are healing they aren't nuking.
It seems like a wasted attribute line/elite on these guys. It was just a thought, i was thinking of a way to counter condition removal by stacking conditions on the enemies. maybe id be better off kicking a hero for an air ele.

It was just a thought, i was thinking of a way to counter condition removal by stacking conditions on the enemies. maybe id be better off kicking a hero for an air ele. Meh - I'd start by dumping SolS on a few guys and adding Enfeebling/Weaken.
They don't really need additional e-management - and those skills don't really need a high investment into Curses.

And I'd certainly raise the MM's Death attribute to 12. And also remove Death Nova of him - put it one of the other guys since this guy should be spamming Minions - and that way you have multiple things going on at the same time rather then waiting for Animate to finish and then go into a Death Nova frenzy.

Traversc, we are talking about builds, not how to vanquish. Vanquishing is dead easy, and we have all done that before many times over that it is boring to talk about it.



Like I said, I have never asked for any proof. Since I have also vanquished the same area before that doesn't mean prot is better than restore now does it?



Yes Mhenlo and Lina do not provide sufficient healing for most of the harder areas in the game.

Would I be able to vanquish Dalada with just Mhenlo and Lina? Of course, because vanquishing is easy with all the tricks in pve that I have mentioned. But you would have obtained better results and kept your heroes alive if you have a better healer. From your screenshot, it shows that you had experience at least a team wipe or all your heroes had died before while vanquishing that area. If the player has access to only 3 heroes - then the player must make a compromise. Had I made one of the heroes a restorer - my damage output would have dropped. Because that guy would be restoring instead of nuking.
If the guys aren't nuking - things aren't dying.
And if things aren't dying - those things do damage.
Which means even more restoring is needed.

Would I like a better healer?
Of course - that is why I would LOVE it if they would provide us with the ability to use all hero parties. But till then - monk hench will need to do because other hench perform worse. I'd rather fill other roles with heroes then wasting it on healing - a role that the hench perform sufficiently.

Pretty much the only way the wipes would have been prevented is if the hero AI is programmed differently when it comes to reacting to AoE.

But in situations where the team is in trouble, is when the dual restore N/Rt healers start to pay off. If I need more hex removal in an area, I would convert one of them to a N/Mo.

Since all 3 necro heroes carry discord, you are not lacking in the damage department because you only need to spam discord to kill anything, once you have the curse and condition on your target. That's my issue.
Once the team starts getting into trouble the heroes turn into healers. And when they are healing - they aren't spamming Discord.
Because these guys can be either damage dealers or healers - but not both at the same time.
And if one goes down - you not only lost a healer you also lost one of your best damage dealers.

Btw - are you running a SY! guy with that?
Or a simple caster?

Don't bother.
Here is the thing I am wondering - if you run 6 necros - does it even make sense to bring Discord on all of the guys?
I mean if you run AP+YMLD!+FH! + some 4 Discords - that will kill most of the things because that's some 600 damage. The two guys that are healers (be it resto or healing) thus free up some 10+ attribute ranks worth of points by not going Discord. And those can then be wasted on additional lines or to just improve the main attributes.
Especially since you want the healers to heal - and when they are healing they aren't nuking.
It seems like a wasted attribute line/elite on these guys. I could devote another elite to healing. However, you also have to accept that since I add extra hexes and conditions (enfeebling blood and shadow of fear). Plus the minion bomber is usually casting death nova/ minions/ aegis/ protective spirit instead of focusing on discord. The healer usually is the first hero at the start of the battle to discord. Because no health has been lost so they can be free to add another 90 damage while the other necro's get distracted by minions or cursing.

Restoration elites are lackluster, weapon of remedy is only used mainly for conditions. Xinrae's weapon is something the ai can't use as a pre-protect. I could make them have word of healing and use monk healing spells, however a free bonus 90-100 damage for an elite which really can't be replaced and have too much of an effect.

I agree, that it may be "overkill" but when your fighting bosses or multiple monks who keep healing, the extra discords are what pushes the enemy over the edge. Plus, with all the minions tanking the healers can get off a few discords before we start taking damage.

The healers, will focus on healing when needed and will aid in the insane damage as needed. I play in a lot of hardmode areas and especially with all the vanquishing, it helps a lot against bosses as well as the areas where there are a few 3-5 healers. I do also run finish him and my friend runs pain inverter as well as another ap nuker.

We completed 4 or so kurzick vanquishes this weekend in about 35-45 minutes with our discordway build. Ferndale, Eternal Grove and a few others. Only one or two deaths throughout all the vanquishes, because of a hard hitting boss and the heroes were slow to cast.