Shambling horror's aren't meant to be spammed they have a recharge. I don't know about you, but when we played stuff was dropping so quickly that there was more corpses than 2 summon minions could use. Not to mention, the bombers usually focus on using death novas more and so the curser can bring up an extra minion which will last long and add another minion on death.
Implicit assumption is, lots of exploitable corpses in the area.
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Hexes did nothing to us. The degen from them was easily healed through and hex removal imo is pointless. Because, heroes can not prioritize hex removal. They will remove the stupidest hexes, parasitic bond, suffering, all of which deal minimal damage. So, if you want hex removal add it wherever you want. But it didn't affect us any and unless I went into say fow hm I would not bother because I would see a very minimum improvement.
Not all hexes are degen based. Some hexes are more devastating than degen but fortunately, they are rare in PvE (e.g. BackFire, VoR, Empathy, Diversion, Ineptitude, etc.). But since you have a 6 heroes team, bringing 1 hex removal is still alot more useful than an extra copy of Dwayna Sorrow, which is AoE anyway. Even if it is only degen hexes where you are, getting rid of the degen hex also saves you significant hp which you would otherwise need to brute force heal through.
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I could remove both death novas, both sets of dwaynas sorrow and both shambling horrors and still play this effectively with those slots blank. However, they add to the party and helped a lot by adding more minion fodder and more damage with 100 damage death novas on each death. Considering the cast time, when we had 2 death novas being spammed we had like 3-6 novas going off at once when an enemy in hm would use an aoe attack. More than a single nova can do.
I am not as fascinated by Death Nova. It is a 2s cast per minion. So what if a few minions happen to die at the same time around a target giving off huge damage. You could have achieved even better results with your 6 discords anyway. One copy of Death Nova and Dwayna Sorrow is more than enough.
If you really dont know what to bring to fill up the blank skill slots, then I suggest bringing more healing.
17 Nov 2008 at 08:19 - 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
Implicit assumption is, lots of exploitable corpses in the area.
Not all hexes are degen based. Some hexes are more devastating than degen but fortunately, they are rare in PvE (e.g. BackFire, VoR, Empathy, Diversion, Ineptitude, etc.). But since you have a 6 heroes team, bringing 1 hex removal is still alot more useful than an extra copy of Dwayna Sorrow, which is AoE anyway. Even if it is only degen hexes where you are, getting rid of the degen hex also saves you significant hp which you would otherwise need to brute force heal through.
I am not as fascinated by Death Nova. It is a 2s cast per minion. So what if a few minions happen to die at the same time around a target giving off huge damage. You could have achieved even better results with your 6 discords anyway. One copy of Death Nova and Dwayna Sorrow is more than enough.
If you really dont know what to bring to fill up the blank skill slots, then I suggest bringing more healing.
First off, I stated if you can't make use of the extra minions then DO NOT BRING THEM. If your killing so fast that your leaving unexploited corpses behind as your running into the next group, when you could make an extra shambling horror or 2 out of them why not?
Second, I didn't state all hexes are degen based. I stated a hero can not I repeat CAN NOT decide whether to use a hex removal on backfire/ VoR/ SS or a parasitic bond. So unless your going to waste seven spots on hex removals so that they can remove every single hex you get on yourself. It is a waste. Do not argue here, if you want I suggest making a poll as to whether or not to make heroes bring hex removers. Let the people vote on that decision in a new thread. If you play with minimal hex removers you should notice that in the areas where you actually need hex removers, you need heavy duty ones that will get rid of 3+ hexes, because in pve monsters spam hexes everywhere. I wish heroes could prioritize their hex removers, then they would be valueable.
Here is a scenario, hero uses remove hex on one person that was hexed with suffering. So they don't take x amount of health degen damage. The rest of the party is still under suffering. Healer drops ashes or life ends and heals the damage on the rest of the heroes. How much energy did the healer save? The answer is none, it used the same amount of energy to heal the entire party.
They aren't 4 minion masters, it's 2 minion masters and 2 shambling horrors, who manage to cast every what 30 seconds. I vanquished every kurzick area this weekend. There were times where we had about 6 shambling horrors/ jaggeds on our curses, and about 6-8 minions on each olias. Because we constantly steamroll things and when our minions die, they are popping off 4+ death novas. Which will generally result in a mob of enemies being near death at the same time.
Like I said, we were killing so quickly that we would have more than 2 corpses exploitable during the recharge of bone minions. Resulting in our cursers having an option to bring an extra minion into battle. It wasn't necessary, but it gave another minion to pop a death nova off of. If you haven't seen the power of having anywhere from 4-8 death novas popping off and watching a mob of enemies drop to dead or almost dead. I suggest you try bringing an extra death nova if you have the minions to make use of them both.
Also, heroes don't waste their time casting death novas. They generally cast a couple as were preparing/ targeting the monk or hard enemy and setting up condition/ hex for the discords. Then not to mention our healers are also providing discords, which someone was stating earlier you don't even need more than 3 discords to effectively put out a reliable stream of damage. The fact is, death nova can be applied early and be in effect as soon as they get hit by an enemy. That's a bonus 200-800+ damage for literally no effort. All while still having them discording. If you don't want two death novas to be able to pop off anywhere from 200-800+ damage for free then feel free to remove them.
Also, I don't know about you but I don't need any more healing. With the 2 restoration necromancers, 2 copies of aegis and dwaynas sorrow I haven't needed any excess heals even through my vanquishes with double damage rits and eles. They went down quickly when 8 out of the 20 minions were absorbing their spells and popping off death novas.
17 Nov 2008 at 08:45 - 91
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Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
If you play with minimal hex removers you should notice that in the areas where you actually need hex removers, you need heavy duty ones that will get rid of 3+ hexes, because in pve monsters spam hexes everywhere. I wish heroes could prioritize their hex removers, then they would be valueable.
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That is only true for 3-heroes build where you have limited skill slots, so instead of bringing hex removers, you heal through it. In your case, you have lots of spare skill slots that you are even bringing 2 copies of Dwayna Sorrow, how can bringing just 1 hex remover be such a bad thing then?
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Here is a scenario, hero uses remove hex on one person that was hexed with suffering. So they don't take x amount of health degen damage. The rest of the party is still under suffering. Healer drops ashes or life ends and heals the damage on the rest of the heroes. How much energy did the healer save? The answer is none, it used the same amount of energy to heal the entire party.
Why dont I give you another scenario? Player A is hexed with level 12 conjure nightmare, which gives -8 health degen for 13s. That is a total of 208 hp, which you have to heal through without a hex remover. That needs more than a single cast of Spirit Light to heal through, but if you only bring a Remove Hex, you can save yourself that 208hp just by a single cast. Not to mention if it manages to remove a dangerous hex like diversion or VoR/Backfire. If you are that concern about the AI removing just any hexes, then disable the skill and cast it manually. Remove Hex has only a 8s recharge anyway.
Death Nova depends on minions and therefore exploitable corpse availability. It is not a dependable damage for everywhere. If the enemy casters have Ray of Judgement or strong AoE attack, your minions can be wiped out from far. Discord is still the more reliable damage to depend on.
If you dont know what else to bring, just bring more healing. You can never get enough of it in tough areas.
17 Nov 2008 at 08:54 - 92
Well, in your scenario I can guarantee that player A will not be the only player under the effect of a hex. So what's to say that someone else didn't get hit with a pointless hex and your hero removed that already leaving your skill to be on recharge? That is the problem with heroes. You could get hexed with an aoe pointless hex and they would remove the first hex that gets sent on you.
So you have to pray the first hex a monster hits you with is one that actually is worth removing. Otherwise, they will remove the first hex they see. Which could very well be one non threatening and pointless hex.
Also, even if there was a ray of judgement the fact is, enemy monsters do not have enough artificial intelligence, to use that spell instantly to spike your entire minion army. They have a bunch of other skills they could be using and most likely they will not use that as their first one reliably. Not to mention, if I already knocked the smiter down with you move like a dwarf, followed by sin for a double knockdown then they won't be casting and discord will spike them down before they can even get off more than 2 casts.
I suggest you make a thread with a poll about hex removals, then we can get a general idea as to whether people think it's valueable or not. For me, they will never be useful, unless I know there is a certain area (such as fissure of woe) where the majority of hexes are super damaging, spiteful spirit, empathy etc. In which case you need stuff like hex eater signet to get rid of multiple hexes.
I should replace dwayna's sorrow and I will consider it. Especially if I play with my partner more often. The only problem is, what is a single skill that I can add that will make a huge difference in my team. Heroes can't even stack the protective pots because once one needs to drop it, they all drop it and waste theirs.
17 Nov 2008 at 09:06 - 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
Well, in your scenario I can guarantee that player A will not be the only player under the effect of a hex. So what's to say that someone else didn't get hit with a pointless hex and your hero removed that already leaving your skill to be on recharge? That is the problem with heroes. You could get hexed with an aoe pointless hex and they would remove the first hex that gets sent on you.
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But you have lots of free skill slots so much so that you are bringing 2 Dwayna Sorrow, 2 Death Nova, and 4 minion skills. Replacing one of them with a hex remover would still save you significant hp if they are degen hexes. What if one of those hexes turn out to be Diversion?
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So you have to pray the first hex a monster hits you with is one that actually is worth removing. Otherwise, they will remove the first hex they see. Which could very well be one non threatening and pointless hex.
Remove Hex has only 8s recharge and you can disable it and micro-manage if you prefer. Since you have so many spare skill slots you can even bring more than one.
This whole cover hex concept came from pvp anyway, which monster AI is too stupid to use.
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Also, even if there was a ray of judgement the fact is, enemy monsters do not have enough artificial intelligence, to use that spell instantly to spike your entire minion army.
Not true. They use that very well on minion armies.
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They have a bunch of other skills they could be using and most likely they will not use that as their first one reliably. Not to mention, if I already knocked the smiter down with you move like a dwarf, followed by sin for a double knockdown then they won't be casting and discord will spike them down before they can even get off more than 2 casts.
There are usually a few smiters (e.g. Afflicted monks) around and your YMLAD is only single targeting. Not to mention having a few Saltspray Dragons (or SF Flame Djinns) would annihilate your minion army fast. Bottom line is you shouldn't rely on your minion army and Death Nova being always there.
17 Nov 2008 at 09:11 - 96
I understand that SoLS is not required. The main reason I use it, is for an extra self heal and if some heroes especially minion bombers are casting protective spirit a lot and summoning minions and using aegis. Or if your fighting a long fight and minions already die they need a little boost.
Life isn't the only heal, the healers will provide a few heals on the way. It's ok if a few die because your quickly getting them back once the old ones death nova a fresh mob.
I notice that they do get a little bit stuck. However the great thing about shambling horrors on the curser is they do not get stuck behind and gets a fresh minion with only minimal degen. Also, when we first aggro were already spiking down an enemy with 4 out of the 6 (2 are using death nova and prepping minions). Then once an enemy rushes towards us the mob gets stopped withing about half an aggro bubble of us.
I do not know why, but for once our bombers did not seem to ever get stuck behind by an aggro circle. They would be like half an aggro circle behind us, but they never were too far out. Which resulted in them rushing to meet the melee just before they got to us. Even if they did get to us and attack us, we would just spike them down with ymlad and discord and then move on to the next enemy.
Daesu, I didn't state I needed death nova, I stated that it is a very good thing to have. I was in all the kurzick areas, they were wiping our minions with churning earth, splinter weapons and just about anything you can throw at us. For the most part, we'd summon an assassin at an enemy and they would waste their first spell on them (we have 2 because 2 people). Giving minions enough time to get close enough for death nova to damage. Also, I watched plenty of monsters, they don't instantly cast the second you get in aggro range. They can sometimes end up auto attacking for a second and then casting.
If they wipe out your minions oh well, they aren't your only source of damage, just a bonus. Then you just start discording them all one by one and you summon new minions. Not to mention, if there are 2 smiters I could target one, friend target another and bam problem solved. Also, searing flames djinns cast sf, glowing gaze then sf again with aftercasts can generally get minions in range.
There are a lot of ways to get your minions into death nova range. Whether it's casting a decoy assassin or knocking down the casters for a second. Not to mention because of our curse necromancers with shambling horrors, those go in first and result in 4 or so of your minions dying. Then the bulk of your army (the minions with death nova) rush in after they waste their aoe and bam still huge damage. So you can consider the shambling horrors the decoys for your true army.
17 Nov 2008 at 09:18 - 97
[build=Curser with shambling;OAhkUsG6hGGUMTVlColA70uzRVyF]
[build=Hex remove heal;OANDUrptSxMVVKgGNTftERgyEA]as an alternative if you are expecting lots of nasty hexes *ahem* FoW *ahem*[divert [email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][signet of [email protected]][signet of [email protected]][dwaynas [email protected]][cure [email protected]][dismiss condition][restore [email protected]]
[build=Minion master;OABDQatmSxMVVVBoBLCKVJgdCA]
[build=Prot with shambling;OANDUrpvSxMVVKgHVBE1D3VyEA]
[build=Restore life;OAhjUoGYIPxsqaGbcKNHmTuLGA]
[build=Restore recovery;OAhjUoGYIPxsqKxjaLNHmTuLGA]
[divert [email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][signet of [email protected]][signet of [email protected]][dwaynas [email protected]][cure [email protected]][dismiss condition][restore [email protected]] ----- 12 Healing prayers.... 12+1+2 soul reaping (you can even kick the non elite hex/condition removals for stuff like [healing ring] to keep your minions from popping too fast.)
There, nobody should have any trouble with hexes after that. That is one hero that handles all the hex/condition removal as well as [[dwaynas sorrow] for the minions and [[signet of sorrow] which is like a mini discord because of all the corpses that will be laying around it has rapid fire potential. It would fit in any 6 hero discord team. The reason for multiple hex/condition removal skills even though they have short recharge time is so that hero is able to spam the removals on the whole party which should quench the hex/condition almost as soon as it pops up.
And i might add that the bar is very cheap to cast since most skills are only 5 energy cost, so you could even stick it on a Mo/Me with minimal E-Management. ([[leech signet] or [[power drain] or [[energy tap]).
17 Nov 2008 at 09:41 - 99
You seem to get too focused on individual instances. You seem to think that the hero can only death nova and all your damage is coming from the minions. Your forgetting that most of your damage is coming from the fact your spiking down enemies within 3-5 seconds for each death.
If an enemy is blocking it, you spike it down and they unleash hell on the casters. Not to mention if the melee is strong it will kill a few minions and aid in it's own demise.
As ap nukers, you usually focus on monks/ harmful casters and let the enemy melee focus on your minions and all your newly created corpses are summoning even more minions to attack the casters left over. By the time you nuke all the harmful casters and healers, the melee has died on it's own by death novas on the minions. Not every minion will get stuck on melee when you have 18+ minions.
The jagged isn't meant for anything other than an extra minion to block and absorb damage. It is free out of the death of the shambling.
When you have 2 sets of minions and an army of about 16+ the odds of all of them being blocked by melee is almost impossible. Unless there is an area where corpses are too small or not at all, minions and death nova are pretty much required for their potential and effectiveness in every situation.
If they weren't worth the trouble of sometimes having them not work effectively (such as ele nuking them all before they get in range) then everyone wouldn't be using them.
Think of it like this, the enemy melee will be fighting with anywhere from 10 to 24 or so minions. Your casters will be taking out there casters a lot faster than they can damage you. Then your minions continue to summon and death nova around any enemy left standing. So in every fight you will have the upperhand, excluding of course, super hard/ elite areas.
I think your getting too caught up in the secondary effect of the team build (the minion army and death novas), and not focusing on target selection and nuking the rest of the enemies with discord. Think of the minions as support and the discord as the main build.
17 Nov 2008 at 10:40 - 100
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Originally Posted by daze
[divert [email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][signet of [email protected]][dwaynas [email protected]][cure [email protected]][purge conditions][spotless [email protected]][restore [email protected]]
[divert [email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][signet of [email protected]][dwaynas [email protected]][cure [email protected]][purge conditions][spotless [email protected]][restore [email protected]] ----- 12 Healing prayers.... 12+1+2 soul reaping (you can even kick the non elite hex/condition removals for stuff like [healing ring] to keep your minions from popping too fast.)
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This is what I always get stuck on.
Any reason why run Purge AND Spotless if you can just run Dismiss?
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Correct and I was just pointing out the fact that your damage emphasis should be on Discord spiking, not minions or death nova. Death nova damage is unreliable and whatever damage it gives out, you can do better with your 6 discord anyway. I only look at DN from a poison condition perspective, to support discord.
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As ap nukers, you usually focus on monks/ harmful casters and let the enemy melee focus on your minions and all your newly created corpses are summoning even more minions to attack the casters left over.
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True, and newly created minions need you to cast DN again (2s/minion). Which is another why DN damage is unreliable, and you would do better to just focus on Discord spiking. AP also demands that you spike down a specific target to recharge your awesome pve skills and get energy back.
Melee minion positions and DN damage is unreliable in battle, so your initial DN maybe hurting their afflicted warriors when you should be spiking down the afflicted ritualist, who has a res, in the back line first. And that ritualist target probably has your AP in the beginning of the fight, not the afflicted warrior.
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By the time you nuke all the harmful casters and healers, the melee has died on it's own by death novas on the minions. Not every minion will get stuck on melee when you have 18+ minions.
I usually leave the melee last and kill the more dangerous monks, ritualist, mesmers, and elementalist. These backline casters are usually the ones with the perm res and heals. DN only kills the melee, but Discord is able to kill the caster that you need to kill first.
They do focus on discord when enemies are under the requirement, they don't sit there the entire battle only using death nova. Death nova does not only hit melee, because unless your fighting against 3-6 melee at a time, or do not have as many minions up (which you already stated you don't run with 4 minion spells as I do) they do not all get stuck on the melee.
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True, agree with this statement.
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Found it funny that he said 4 minion masters are overkill(dazed), then his build is the exact same just minus 1 set of bone minions. Anyways, if you don't kill quick enough or have the ability to make use of 4 minion spells, don't use them. I dunno about most people but I make use of them just fine and my extra bonus damage from death novas (for free) because it's a long last enchant that can be cast as I am prepping the target is what makes me able to keep a constant stream of corpses to use.
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I end up defending daze here, no, its false. yeah he has threeminion raising skills in his bar but only one of them is a primary minion bomber other are suplimentary just to raise more corpses quicker and give more bulk to the wall, high recharge means the aint gonna spend a lot of time on that job. You have two full on minion bombers who will not only greatly interfere with eachover but make you hit with discord less often, which is bad. It is no longer a matter of how fast you kill, its a matter of eficiency were one main and two assisting high level minions are optimal.
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The reason sabway can't focus on more minions, is because that'd involve another jagged bomber and hoping that they would utilize the minions for damage, not utility. In discord, no character is just a minion bomber, or just a healer or just a curse necro. They all do 90+ armor ignoring damage with discord. I could use the default discord I posted earlier, in hardmode against the elusive golemancer (where there are no corpses) and it'd still kill everything as fast as another optimal discordway set up for no minions.
What do you mean? You can use dual MM + SS in some areas to great effect, large 20 minion wall will deal big damage with hexes and novas, reason they aint doing it is lack of healing. I agree that d-way doesnt need minions much tho.
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Multiple minion spells are only good if you can kill fast. If you can't, then that's your fault and thus you don't use them. But for the few people who actually try dual death novas, you should realize that you can summon more minions than your heroes can use. But that's a personal preference. Adding an extra minion spell or 2 does not reduce the effectiveness of the build in any way.
Three mms cope with raising minions fine enough, you dont need a minion spell on every character. Usually one death nova is enough to have a steady flow of explosions, not that you need to pre-cast it on healthy minions. Just tell me why the hell you need more than 24 minions? And how the ... will you keep up with 32 minion wall, I mean, you will never raise it.
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Because in the end, they all discord and anything besides discord,healing and a hex/condition is a utility, not a requirement.
Agree, discord is so versatile it can be changed for many areas it doesnt mean that you dont need to use common sense though.
17 Nov 2008 at 23:14 - 106
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Originally Posted by Super Igor
18 Nov 2008 at 04:17 - 108
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Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
Found it funny that he said 4 minion masters are overkill(dazed), then his build is the exact same just minus 1 set of bone minions. Anyways, if you don't kill quick enough or have the ability to make use of 4 minion spells, don't use them.
and i would say it again, 4 Minion masters is overkill. I use 3 minion masters and that is probably more than i need. What is funny is the fact that when i use 3 minion masters, i usually have 18-23 minions total on the field. Even when im in VERY high corpse areas and taking on HUGE mobs of trolls and what not, I never get to the cap of 30 minions. 4 Minion masters would be no different simply because the corpse count would be the same and the ratio of minion popping to to corpse dropping would be the same. The only difference would be instead of Olias is controlling 8 minions, livia is controlling 4 minions, master of whispers is controlling 6 minions to make a total of 18 minions. it would be more like Olias is controlling 6 minions, master of whispers is controlling 4 minions, livia is controlling 4 minions, Krytan necromancer is controlling 6 minions.
But i did retract my statement that MK build is kind of a waste. Only because of the splitting capabilities. The only time having 4 minion masters on a team would even be somewhat effective is if the team is broke up into 2 parties of 4. Otherwise, it is just wasted skill slots that you may have well just put [[blood ritual] in or some hex removal.
18 Nov 2008 at 04:24 - 109
Well, I don't sit there and wait as I watch my heroes cast death nova. They do it and cast 2-3 while I am targeting and prepping them.
So if I took off the second death nova then it wouldn't count as 4 minion masters, yet automatically adding that results in a minion master. I kind of laugh that I add 2 shamblings and people complain I am using 3-4 minion masters. Yet he does the same thing, minus another bone minions (because he either isn't in an area where there are enough corpses, or can't kill quick enough to use them) yet he is praised for it. If you can't use them don't use them, simple as that.
I understand that minions are useless and a blank slot in elusive golemancer. My point was that you do not need minions for anything with discord. They are extra. I didn't ever state you need the death nova damage or that you need that many minions. But daesu likes to tell me my dual death nova is horrible because of xxxxx reasons. Yet, 2 death novas doesn't do anything except add damage while your preparing enemies for discord. Takes no time away from discording (or if so, you have 4 more discords and an ap nuker to spike them down in the same amount of time).
I manage to utilize 4 minion spells and kill so fast that I have that many corpses available. Do I need to bring another minion spell in there no, but is it a waste to leave unused corpses when your heading to the next battle, I believe so.
If death nova took away time from discording and did not add damage, I would get rid of both copies and purely rely on minions for blocking and absorbing damage. But I kill a lot quicker by having 2 death novas than I do with only 1 or none.
I didn't state take my original build everywhere, if you can't use that many minions then instead of criticizing me, take them out for the area. Because of our killing speed I can use them all effectively and keep up a bigger army and more death novas than a build taking them out. If you can use more death novas and minions, which can absorb damage and dish out hundreds of damage.
It is a lot more valuable than a hex remover or a small heal or whatever you replace in that slot. Before you flame me to death for this statement above think of this. If you summon 1 minion, that is a more likely chance that they will take a few hits/ spells/ hexes away from your party, which results in negating atleast 100+ damage all for 1 minion spell. Which is why everyone likes having a lot of minions to absorb literally hundreds of damage and quite a few hexes, which is a lot better, IF there are corpses that can use them all.
18 Nov 2008 at 10:56 - 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by daze
There are no areas that can supply enough corpses to support 40 minions
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Agree, I was using 20-24 minions, it rocked but the area was pushed to the limit corpse wise so having more is too much considering three minion spells is more than enough to exploit mobs with maximum speed.
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Id doesn't take ANY skill to us a minion master when its just a hero. Im not criticizing you. Im just trying to get an understanding on why waste skill slots like that.
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[blood ritual] says hi! 
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I am not even saying that i dont have the ability to produce lots of corpses at a high pace. I just find it hard to believe that you have ever had more than 30 minions on the field at a time. I have been in areas with the biggest mob counts that a person can find just to see if i was able to get to the 30 minion cap. I even disabled Olias animate bone minions when he was at his 10 cap in order to let the other heroes use the corpses, but still have not reached the 30 cap yet. And with my main character, i can call a hex and condition then discord spike on a target so fast, that often the enemy dies before it can even get off its first skill. So there is no way that i don't kill fast enough.
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You cant get more of one shot, one kill with d-way tbh so...Knight's flaw in logic is that if he kills with such a speed, idk, maybe the entire mob in one use of discord  there is no need in minions, they just drag you behind. Also as I srsly said before three minion spells is enough for fast corpse exploiting considering you cant really kill everything in one blow very much using discord (no splinter ect...).
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I just had a thought, when i get home ill try it. Maybe in NM i can go and aggro 4-5 groups and max out my minion count. I never thought of trying it in NM.
You can overaggro in HM too actually. >.>
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I like meekness just because the area of effect is wider same with MoP. I can get over the energy cost and the recharge just because the effect of the skill is worth it IMO. I like all enemies in the area to be 50% slower And having MoP means that i dont need the huge spikes by the time i get to each enemy, so i can just end up casting [[assassins promise][[finish him] to clean up the area.
Health sac, 5 more energy, 3 times the recharge, lesser duration...just for in the area effect? Mobs are pretty cramped up, melee especially so chances are sof will effect all of them too and if not you can reapply it on guys who didnt get effected later.
MoP...heroes cast it on the target you are bashing...usually that means that target is being killed before mop can do any significant damage and you wait 20 seconds to use it again. Kind of a waste tbh barbs are bettahr. Go to an area, and look how they use it.
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Its probably not too much more damage, but hey, it adds up and every little bit helps. and it sure beats wanding an enemy to death *ahem* Tyla *ahem*
j/k
Wanding an enemy to death adds up too. Yay for wanding!
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I normally keep [[enfeebling blood] on the heroes but when i saved those builds i was with my necro friend who was using it on his bar along with a few other condition applying skills. But i normally swap out a few skills for every area i go to. Like in FoW I rely on hex removal more than i do minions.
kay.
18 Nov 2008 at 11:24 - 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
MoP...heroes cast it on the target you are bashing...usually that means that target is being killed before mop can do any significant damage and you wait 20 seconds to use it again. Kind of a waste tbh barbs are bettahr. Go to an area, and look how they use it.
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Well it just dawned on me that [[mark of pain] is not an area hex. It is a single enemy hex that does area damage (like SS).
 I always was a big fan of using MoP with lots of minions though. looks like it is only for Sabway.
And even with the high cost of [[meekness] im still not too worried.. I pack 3-4 fast casting hexes on my bar at any time so its not a huge deal for heroes to pack a lot of them. I like to control the hex/conditions myself and let heroes do what they do best and spike [[discord] all i have to do is yell "SPIKE DAMMIT" at my computer screen.
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Originally Posted by Super Igor
[blood ritual] says hi!
but that's just one skill and it has a use. not like MK slapping in 3-4 skills to a team build that don't need to be in there.
Before d-way I always had a hero with mop somewere because it synched so well with my [death blossom] but more I looked at it on d-way more I realised that it was being wasted as a wrong hex to fuel d-way, so yea, leave it to other setups...[barbs] all the way with d-way.
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And even with the high cost of [[meekness] im still not too worried.. I pack 3-4 fast casting hexes on my bar at any time so its not a huge deal for heroes to pack a lot of them. I like to control the hex/conditions myself and let heroes do what they do best and spike [[discord] all i have to do is yell "SPIKE DAMMIT" at my computer screen.
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Actually you dont need to have a lot of hexes on d-way heroes in general because they will spend too much time casting them. I end up running a total of 3-4 hexes on my three d-way heroes, two copies of [putrid bile], [shadow of fear] with occasional [barbs] as a fourth hex and cant recall to have any p[roblem with it.
As for meekness, Im not saying that its utterly horrible, the effect is still good and with energy issues being irrelevant you can aswell heal the guy from the sac, only problem is the time wasted on healing the sac that could've been used to cast an extra [discord], I personally use [shadow of fear] because its a more efficient and spammable way to make them attack 50% slower and it usually covers the entire mob. Neither it becomes a problem when they decide to cast it on mob's last standing guy. :P
At bolded bit: I usually have to get a new keyboard at this point...
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I didn't ask for your opinion. It works for me cuz I play monk primary. I dont need all those protection skills. You have the same amount of hexes I have, except, *gasp*, one hex that has an adjacent range. Guess what, barbs is the same recharge, and it takes advantage of the fact that I have a lot of minions....Jagged minions are also really good at speading more condis. And as far as attributes go, there is one guy with a 12 spec death magic, which if im not mistaken, is a 10 pt dmg difference b/t 14 death.
*edit* i was resisting demolishing your post...but im going to.
weak att spreads? if you add up all my dmg from discord from my 3 necros, they will equal whatever amount of dmg you do with you necros cuz i have the main MM specced at 16 (assuming you are at 14 a pop). and i use that ward that increases dmg, so discord + barbs are doing more dmg.
skills distributed badly? are you serious?
overkill on minions? o hi my name is barbs and i get placed on targets with the potential of having 19 minions hitting me + two warriors. and guess what, my minions will stay alive longer than yours with the potential of popping more death novas....
no dwaynas sorrow? i used to run with that b4, but i felt it was too ineffective. if i have a partner with me, ill have him slot it, but i dont need it, and again, im a primary monk and im most likely going to use lod.
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