Thursday November 13, 2008 - update notes

Now here cutie, yesterday, 15 minutes after the update was released, gwwiki stated faction gained was 5 times the amount of monsters killed, not 50.

This obviously had been changed in the course of the day.

So for your information, when my post was written, information was accurate.

In any caste, YOU (not some plain retarded "U" by some wannabe ghetto kid) take a break from Guild Wars and learn to spell.

/cry. Why couldnt they impliment the same thing with books as in eotn where the NPC fills in any pages that you have ALREADY done, im pretty irritated that if i want to get the tons of LB + lux faction im gonna have to repeat my guard+prot of both elona+cantha yet again =/. Same with the bonuses from the vanqs, im missing out on all my lb faction from my elona vanqer title and my lux+kurz faction from my almost complete cantha vanq title.

A summary of this update is that its made new players have an even easier time getting their titles while the players who have been around a while have managed to miss out on alot of faction+rep =/.

So, how much faction/gold/xp do you get for a completed HM and a completed NM book? anyone got round to finishing it and handing it in yet?

Not sure if these numbers are correct, but they're on the official wiki page for the Shiro's Return book:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shiro%27s_Return

Honestly, if these are the final faction numbers, and they're added to your title directly (ie. they aren't faction that can be "doubled-up" by the [Faction Rewards] NPC), then they seem a bit low. When the dust settles, and people start examining optimal routes/paths for VQ'ing/bounties/Urgoz-Deep/Challenge etc, I wonder if there are going to be way more viable ways of grinding out faction than these current book-levels of faction.

Well I cant say 'too little too late' because there is a lot here.

But thats how I feel about it.

If activity in THE DEEP dose actually increase, I may start playing GuildWars again. Hell, Id have almost max luxon title just from that elite area if this change was made 2 years ago.

Too many of the changes have come too late, particularly the FIX to hfff.

But I will remain optimistic, and possibly log in next week to check it out.

Easier way of getting titles when they still require 300+ hours of gameplay? WHAT?!

My account is 42 months old and I still haven't maxed neither of Factions allegiance titles. Could it be because I found endless grind of HFFF too mind-numbing and repulsive? Hmmmm, that's a tough one. Not.

Have I been given an easier way of maxing said titles? No. I've been given additional options of gaining faction. That's all there is to it. If I want to max Kurzick title, I still have to clock-in 300+ hours. But with one difference. No mind-numbing HFFF.

Cheers Tideswayer!

Horseman Of War, ive just been able to find ateam in the Deep for the first time in 3 years so I guess its kinda working.

It wasnt packed there though.

No it has to be 50 because I have VQed Maishang Hills twice since the update which requires about 185 kills. Doing so I got almost 10k bonus each time and that did not include the +20 per kill and +250 per boss kill bonus.

Awesome! Now if only they would restore Viper's Defense to an 'activates-on-attack' stance again.... we could yell "Dont wand onis!" at the newbs Just Like the Good Ol Days !!

Hmmm.... and I can use picks and ID on my monk... oO

:rays for old school deep action::

-.-

i know that it is 50 per kill ... now

GWWiki stated it'd been 5 per kill yesterday though ... that's where my overall inaccurate information came from ^^

Indeed there was 5 there for a while. It can be verified in the page history.

OMG, this update is truly amazing. The effort that has gone into this is spectacular, and it's quite frankly and awesome update. Thanks Anet. Now I'm only sad I'm in Europe for the next 4 months and won't be able to play.

Thanks Anet - good job.

To those QQers that have played for 3 years like myself and done most everything in the game - why do you expect that there should be some special bonus in there for you as opposed to everyone else? Sure like you I checked to see if I could buy pages and found I couldn't. So what does that mean - I have xxxx faction, much the same as I had last week. If I want to max the title I have many improved means that have just placed at my disposal to do it. Sure I could have been gifted a free 120K faction from a book (not 120K to trade in double I understand) then that could have gotten me another 1% on the way to Saviour. It is still up to the player to want to get to 10M points, so its a rather meaningless QQ over 1% (so enough of the gimme gimme gimme please - we are not more entitled than anyone else).

HFF - I spent a little time in Lutgardis listening to the rage quitters going off at Anet and their stupid nerfs. Some of the funniest stuff I have ever heard. Why is it that so many people out here that seem to be incapable of adapting to change. Frankly it is updates like this or the skilll balances that maintain my interest in the game. If the game was static and completely scripted I would be out of here. If you yearn for that simple mindless sameness then I need to introduce you to PONG (showing my age there).

Congratulations Anet - you aren't going to please everyone, but this little tacker is pretty darn happy tonight and looking forwards to the next few weeks and months.

Some people aren't looking at the whole picture. What these changes have basically done is removed or lessened the grind for a new player to reach the lower ranks. E.g., you can now get to rank 4 Kurzick/Luxon just by doing the things you would do anyway -- quests and missions -- and get your HoM statue. A few people who haven't done the math seem to think that this ease applies to the whole process and amounts to handing out GWAMM to every new player 15 seconds after he sets up his account.

For the higher ranks, nothing has really changed except the ways in which points can be gained. It won't take the community long to figure out which ways are the most efficient, and who in their right mind would then use any of the less efficient ways if they want to max the title? So it will come back to grinding on the same couple of activities, which, in the long run, will only be marginally less tedious than the methods used before.

Overall, I do think this was a great update, and I expect to have a lot of fun with it once I figure out where to store everything. I am just a bit disappointed, though, that the high ranks still can't be reached in a reasonable amount of time except by those who can devote 4+ hours a day to the project.

Well, after trying out vanquishing a bit:

I still think the titles are unnecessary, ridiculously grindy, and that having game-affecting titles isn't a good idea. The update didn't really do much to change that.

However, giving a decently noticeable reward for not doing a gimmick farm but playing out the game (vanquishing) is a good idea in my opinion. It's certainly a better way of raising a title than things like Lucky, Treasure Hunter, and Drunkard. It's a step in the right direction I suppose - grind titles are still full of grind, but at least it's playing-the-game grind.

Overall, superficial but positive. High-five.

Yes summoning stones seem interesting. I think that I will get some today after I get home from work. Now to do the books. Lots of them everywhere WOW good thing that I never really started NF when I got it 6 months ago.

QQ me a river sheesh. This attitude where everyone deserves everying retroactively is insane. I have 13 titles maxed.(not a big deal honestly) But 4 of them are GWEN Reputation titles and 2 are the Lightbringer and Sunspear titles. So this update dosen't really affect me alot. (Except for Kurzick Title) I did them so what, I played the game to have fun. Titles came later as something else to do in addition to playing. Is it annoying? Sure. But not worth the QQfest

I am working on the Guardian titles VQing titles, because I want to. Do i feel slighted cause I already did all the campains in normal mode and would have to redo them for the books? No. Cause I am having Fun just playing. If its not about fun don't play.

I'm glad the changes are made, if not for me for all the other newer characters playing. To decrease their grind and increase their fun. Just because a game update is not aimed solely at you dosent make it bad. Contray to believe the work does not revolve around one area of the game. Most the updates I see are skill balances anyways. Get over yourself please.

As I understand it SF needs what 3 skills to work effectively now? WTH
Blessed aura with Spellbreaker only to work together. (Sure there are other skills in the bar, but those 2 keep you alive, from spell death without lowering damage output, unlike Shadow Form) I dont see anyone here screaming to nerf spellbreaker which is needed in the 600/smite builds for many areas that are farmed CoF in particular. Again get over yourself, it's not that important. And if it is I'm sure they are debating it in their offices, away from the QQing and flaming.

Community? Whats that? /sarcasm


If you think you can demand them to do something just cause you play the game get real. You already have FoW, and other updates and stuff. If you want constant Free stuff for the E-peen play WoW there you "buy" a new game every four months. And still have to buy the expansion when it comes out. Good Stuff.

Enjoy the game for the game. Be happy they are trying to give you something for nothing, when overworked and underappreciated.


@cataphract - The Whinners Fund was brilliantly funny (and did I mention true) :-)

@Fril Estelin - Yeah that pretty much sums up most of the QQs attitude. All me, I don't care about the rest of the people or the Game in general. Loved the posts sarcasm. Community? Whats that? /sarcasm

@Lindsey and Team - Great work it is appreaciated.

Leave Flames at the door please.

P.S. I forget who had the Carrot analogy, but to them great post. I 'd like some really cool end game(Elite) stuff. But you nailed it on the head. Carrot is like an oasis....stumbling to the next unattainable goal only to get there and look something else becons...ugg.

Pretty awesome. Some grind is reduced, some rewards pushed up for actually playing. Great job.

Screw Anet. Its not QQ at all to have invested so many hours on Protectors and Guardian titles and then have it not count at all. When any company goes back and changes the way things work, in any industry, you dont simply cast aside those who were with you from the start. The rewards should have been retroactive and fair, given the time investments spent by those working towards them when they were first available.

Screw Anet.

When you try to insult someone by telling them learn to spell, maybe you should check your own deficiencies first. (Please note highlighted print.)
On subject I think the update gives people options, you can use or not use them as you see fit. I think for a majority of people playing right now it is a very good update.

Really great job on the update, I'm loving what they've done here. It's great that this should bring players back to elite factions missions, factions pvp, less grind for LB/sunspear etc, and I really commend the team for their hard work and effort.

However, I just wish this had been done a long time ago. It's great that finally AnEt are concentrating on fixing and balancing things, but it does seem a little late for seasoned players. I'm not really of the opinion that these titles should be retroactive, but for all the old players out there (myself included), I've already been through each game with numerous characters, done all the missions, VQed everywhere... and the rewards, as enticing as they are, aren't going to persuade me to repeat everything again. So good job on making the game much more balanced and interesting for those players who havn't yet experienced all that GW has to offer, and I sincerely hope that the lessons learnt in GW1 will be applied in GW2 from the very beginning.

This update made me reinstall the game , i guess this proves of it's quality.

I think this comment proves my point made on another thread.

This update is designed to get people back into the game who had left, or get people to play who were not doing much. Nothing for experienced players who have been there and done that.

Thanks, ANet, we feel really appreciated. How do we get something - by dropping the Guild Wars series and playing WoW for a year or two?

Ya whats with all these updates designed to help out new characters. Theyre peddy ass updates too. M.O.X. and Fire Imp were a joke. Nothing quite new or special. Lets see some new content on the 40% of unused map in each campaign. This update was just a bunch more of what is already in the game. Pretty much just increasing the acquiring rate of everything. Sooner or later money drops is gonna be x10 and gold weapons x5 etc. Lame. Quit being lazy Anet.

Not sure how you can say this, an example is the auto industry (since you say any industry), say you go spend 70k on a sweet new luxury car, has everything you you think air, tilt, power everything, premium sound system, you're happy as a pig in shit.... next years model comes out, costs 65k and has nav system, OnStar type system, backup camera, more horsepower better mileage, do you say screw you car company, I bought my car last year and I didn't get all that cool stuff QQ I want it now, I bought my car last year I deserve it. What do you think think the car company would say

That is a perfect update. Not sure about the FA vengeance of the gods reduced time tho

That's a terrible example - he wasn't proposing that at all.

To make your comparison work, what ANet have done is the equivalent of offering an upgrade to people who have left their car in the garage or just used it for shopping if they drive their car more, whereas people have driven it around the whole country get nothing to recognise the fact they loved the car as much as they could.

QFT!!!!!

I wish all these people would STFU and realize ANet owes them nothing.
You are the one that chose to spend that time farming (points, rep...) whatever. ANet in no way ever forced you to do any of that. A title in a video game means nothing in RL so, if you decide to put all your free time into grinding said title then that is your choice and no one else is to blame but yourself.

So, please all you whiney little bit...s STFU and go play WoW.
Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out! (or do let it either way is fine as long as you go away!)

Thanks!!!

Oh! and I insist we need something for storing that books, that a lot of books.

Awww... did they take your titles away? They didn't take mine!

I've got a 20 year old pick up truck that needs to have updated emission controls, improved mileage, air-bags, CD player, and a myriad of other things that the Ford Motor Company changed in their F-150 line over the years. By your logic, Ford owes me BIG-TIME!!!

You feel cheated out of the rewards because you already did the missions? In HM? If you weren't statisfied with the rewards for doing them prior to the update, Why did you do them?

I'll say it again for those who've missed it: You have lost NOTHING by the changes in this update (unless you're a bot farmer trying to generate gold doing HFFF runs).

Why do I suspect that most of those who defend this choice not to make books retroactive are also those who wouldn't get nothing and just want others not to get what they deserve and have played for?

It doesn't quite apply here. You paid for a good (a car) you actually got and used it for a whole year before it got replaced by a new model.

People who PLAYED the game before this update got NOTHING, just because they did stuff before developers finally decided to fix something in a game that's been broken for about two years.

Player could get rewards they've worked for now, but all we care is about economy... That's why Shadow Form is still there and got partially de-nerfed, ain't it?

That example is product rollover, be it TV's, or your example, automobiles. I mean product support. I mean continual support of the same product, obviously. Possibly comparing to industry wasnt my best comparison.

Anet is screwing over older players by not allowing them the rewards they already worked for when they implemented a new reward system. Faction is retroactively applied. I have no idea why they thought that was important but retroactively applying campaign rewards was not.

I cant remember what characters completed what quests and actions to be deserved extra Faction, and I dont really care. However, not giving rewards for all the work put into Protector and Legendary Guardian titles is a different story. Its akin to wiping an investment system to allow new investors in with a clean slate but not return any percentage to the current investors before resetting the system.

Anet even admitted that they are shorting the older players when Regina said they discussed it but decided it would be too huge an influx of gold into the economy. That's a load of bull. Supposedly, according to Wiki, the combined amount of gold from a NM and a HM Shiro's book completed is a total of 10k gold. Means probably 30k gold for someone who completed Legendary Guardian. Fear that my 30k of new found wealth will wreck the economy? Fear that 30k gold to each Legendary Guardian holder will destroy the economy? I dont think so.

Its a specific choice made to encourage everyone to come back and play and grind more, irregardless of whether or not they already did. Rewarding the older players retroactively would bring them back while simultaneously injecting the community with the newer players pursuing wider gameplay options. More importantly than that though, is its fair. Fair for those no matter where they are, or were, with title pursuit. It could have been fair. They specifically chose not to be.

It also has nothing to do with rewards, in my case. What the hell am I going to do with 30k more gold, really? I think it was 100k experience also for the completion of NM and HM Shiro's book, so it might be 300k experience due a Legendary Guardian holder. Woo. What am I going to do with more experience? I am simply upset about the lack of fairness in implementation. Its simply the principle of the decision that upsets me. A choice by Anet to favor one part of the community over the other on this issue and disregard the time spent by players completing Protector and Legendary Guardian titles, means it can happen on any other issue, which means its unwise to invest time on the game. It undoes a core founding trust between player and developer.

It sets a precedent that they really dont need to honor any time investment that any of us make, or have that be of any consideration when they adjust things that affect titles into which many have devoted many hundreds of hours. They simply chose, at will, to do it unfairly.

So yes, screw Anet. Fiery. Pit. Of. Hell.

I laughed ..

Raging against ragers .. is still raging ?

Chime in time.

OK for all of you people that have been playing for years and find this unfair. I say about time.

if you started playing when GW came out you have used ANet's game for 36 months at a cost of 4 dollars and 34 cents per month if you have all of the chapters. SO shut up.
I am tired of hearing it. Just quit. Stop wreaking things for the new players. When was the last time you went and helped someone through a mission without charging a fee? Give it a rest already.

Anet thanks for the wonderful update. I have been working hard on my treasure hunter and Lucky/Unlucky titles for some time now. I have broken over 1,000,000 gold in lockpicks so far and anything that will lesson that is fantastic since I can not get to the 9 rings game because I did not want to shell out 50 bucks to get it since GW2 is coming out soon. I hope in 2010 so that I can fill my hall by them.

As for the grind I personally love the grind. It becomes familiar to me. I work for weeks perfecting a build and then mush it along. Currently I am farming the Charr Carvings at an undisclosed location. I figure that I can get a stack a day so I have over 30 days left before winters day so that I can get 1/4 of my party animal title right off the bat.

Thanks ANET

Hmm, im not sure how i feel about this update haha.

Its good for new players, but sucks for the old school ones who have done it already. I wasnt forced to do it before, and enjoyed it, but i do feel that there should be something given to players who have done it already.

Ill prob do it all again anyway, but I can just see where the QQ'ers are coming from.

Overall this was an excellent update I think, it might spark some life back into places like FA.

But why oh why is SF still able to be perma, I just dont understand it. Its way too overpowered, I do UWSC but I still dont think it should be in the game.

IMO the only way to fix this game is to remove all pve skills, consumables, and make a new Uber Hard Mode which has no titles linked to it. Just play it for fun.

No comment. I spent half of my player life helping people. Never asked even a single gold coin in exchange. I enjoyed playing. So? Why on Earth do new player have to get a reward for PLAYING then? Get rid of books altogether, playing and having fun is enough as a reward, for both new and seasoned players. How's about that?

As I said, people thinking this is fair are only those envious people who wouldn't get nothing and enjoy players who DESERVE it not getting it as well.

When was the last time a PuG idiot did what you ASKED him to do, but instead he rushed and made a simple 15-minute mission into a 45-minute boss fight that didn't end the mission, but was only the beginning?

A lot of changes in this updates were great. I finally got r2 wisdom, mainly because I had 3 gold farmers (my main, elementalist farmer and monk farmer) and I couldn't care to give all golds to just my main char...

Also, Kurzick/Luxon changes are FTW... If now I only had a guild to begin with. Or just access to AB.


*snort* sorry, made my smile.

We are only asking to be treated equally with the new players. They get the book rewards when they play the mission for the 1st time and we can't get after doing the same mission, and bonus, FOUR TIMES? Jesus Christ, I mean, to just SEE what kind of reward awaits for me, I have to do the same missions for the FIFTH time? No idea what kind of a sick person could enjoy doing the same thing (remind you - 18 missions, long, boring missions that in total will take 9-11 hours) over and over.

nice up date Anet+dev team+GW crew

=)

keep up the good work.

Nice retort. You raise some well thought out points. Have a cookie. /sarcasm

Just what am I wreaking, anyway, by pointing out how a long time player might feel betrayed and how Anet could have chosen another path? Doesnt affect you at all.

You make erroneous assumptions and your insulting natures belies your immaturity. Many older players miss Prophecies and Factions days when people actually played together. Some older players no longer care about gold in game or make it their primary focus. Most runners these days are newer players. The old school runners I know now do it just for fun. When I do it, I dont even bring anyone along. I do it for nostalgia and the gameplay itself.

And get off your high horse about thinking that an older player doesnt help people or hasnt in ages. That was all I used to do. Bring my monk to missions that needed help and join PUGs for the sheer fun of playing with people until the days heroes killed all of that. Prior to then, I completed 20 Protectors titles entirely in PUGs. By choice. For the fun of it. Maybe you have met some older players that refused to help you, or refused to take you along, or refused to play without heroes and I am sorry about that, but dont stray off-topic and include me in that generalization.

I don't mind the HFFF nerf at all. I would never max the title with it being the only "efficient" and fast way to farm the points. Now with the changes, I don't have to suffer a boring way to do it.

Nice changes!