New Books, Retroactive?

I agree with you here as most of these whiners and QQer's feel they have some sort of ENTITLEMENT coming hahaha ain't that a crock for a no monthly fee game that they can pick up or put down anytime they like at no cost. I do so love the entitlement kiddies though cause they are what keep most of us in laughter on these pages. lol

Very few things could bring back the many, many "veterans" who stopped playing. None of the people I played with in 2005 still play actively. That's including me.

Making the books retroactive will give us oldies some free stuff, sure, but it's not going to make us come back to actually play the game. Not without fresh content or massive skill balances.

Not making the books retroactive keeps things as they are now, but rewards new players, who are still discovering the game (and will potentially buy more campaigns). That's actually a good thing, as it's going to put money in ArenaNet's purse for its ongoing development.

I'm beyond hoping for "The Promised Update" that will make everything right again. Well, no, I do hope for it. It's called Guild Wars 2.

1. What exactly was broken before, in terms of Guardian/Protector rewards? Certainly enough people felt the reward - a title - was enough that they performed the tasks.

2. Here's the problem inherent with demanding credit for what you've done in the past: Let's say (hypothetically) you've completed your Legendary Guardian title, meaning you would have a NM and a HM book, per chapter, to turn in retroactively. Now let's say I have helped out guildies and PUGs enough that I would have enough work done to claim five times the amount of books as you. Except that the game doesn't track how many times I've done missions, only that I've completed them.

Am I then to be rewarded the same as you? I put in much more work than you. Why should you be able to claim the same reward? Is it not just as fair to draw a line and say "from this point forward, rewards can be claimed"?

So wait. I've put up much, much, MUCH more work than a person doing the Factions campaign ONE time and not Masters all. And he's getting more rewards. So it is fair or not fair? You are contradicting yourself.

No he's not. Re-read his message carefully. He's saying you can always find someone who will claim with proof that any given rule is unfair. So a line has to be drawn and that's what Anet did. To use Linsey's own words:

Ok..so i just logged on my elementalist, that is 70% finished with Cantha for the first time. I get shiro's book and its empty, now i have to go back and replay all the missons that ive already completed, for 40k Faction, 40k exp and 4k gold. Just throw the books out and wish all the noobs good luck.
There are much better ways to obtain Faction, XP and Gold.

well i wont be doing the books anytime soon. i have 11 characters. of those characters, 7 are protector of tyria, 9 are protector of cantha, and 7 are protector of elona. only 2 of the 11 are doing anything related to HM. its a bad enough grind to do everything the first time, doing it again because thats the best way anet could come up with to keep us interested in the game another year or more = no way in hell. of the characters that havent become protectors in one of the 3 games, all of them are over 50% done so trying to do books on them wont happen either. the idea behind the update was nice for those just starting new characters or new to GW but in the end thanks for nothing.

Can anyone tell me why anyone would go back and complete a book?
I think ANET might have designed the book to make players go back and repaly missions in the hopes that we make groups and drag new players through the campaigns.

I think they should make the books retroactive.

Fril - The Lindsey quote doesn't apply to this argument as I read it. Anet can't award anything if they don't have the records. No argument there. In this case, they have the records. As was stated earlier, Anet made the original EotN books retroactive, which helped a lot of people get their titles, armor, and consumables sooner, thus reducing grind. That was a good thing in my book (pun not intended).

Making these books retroactive would have the same effect. Like most people who have completed the campaign, I have no need for gold - only the faction/reputation. The idea of making the (initial) cost of purchasing the blank pages equal to the gold reward sounds like a fair compromise to me.

There seem to be two arguments against it. The first one, stated by Anet, is the negative effect on the economy. Making the initial cost of purchasing pages equal to the reward solves this.

The second argument is basically, "don't be selfish or ungrateful." That's not really an argument in favor of the status quo. It's more just a criticism of the way people are expressing themselves - which I agree is largely deplorable. However, that shouldn't affect the decision. And for the record, I think the update is absolutely fantastic - with only one small fix required.

Excellent post and points Lindsey. Now surely we can put this thread to bed.

I hope someone reads this and understands

We have a Allegiance faction cap to keep everything in check. Allow me to explain. I'm speaking as a veteran of this game as well, having played ~42 months. I don't feel the veterans of this game got screwed at all. Alot of you failed to realized the big picture here. Anet raised the cap for faction and at the same time introduced a check list of tasks you were required to do to raise this cap.

Now being a veteran I have gone through this game. I've done the requirements necessary to raise my faction cap. I'm currently at 42,000 kurzick cap. Last night during the vanquishing bonus weekend I was able to vq Arbortsone and by doing so I was awarded somewhere around 37k worth of kurzick faction for my efforts.

A new player cannot benefit the way I did. Their cap is set at 10k. They cannot reap the full benefits like a veteran who has gone through the game can. A new player would have to do a multiple number of tasks before he can reap full rewards for vanquishing. Here is the list.

Maximum Faction Limits

There are now a number of ways to increase the maximum amount of Luxon/Kurzick Faction that you can hold at once. Speak to any [Faction Rewards] NPC to see what you have left to do to increase your faction cap.

* Completing the quest Befriending the Luxons will raise Luxon faction cap by 10,000.
* Completing the quest Befriending the Kurzicks will raise Kurzick faction cap by 10,000.
* Completing Boreas Seabed, Gyala Hatchery, and Unwaking Waters will raise Luxon faction cap by 7000.
* Completing Arborstone, Eternal Grove, and Unwaking Waters will raise Kurzick faction cap by 7000.
* Defeating Kanaxai in The Deep will raise Luxon faction cap by 10,000.
* Defeating Urgoz in Urgoz’s Warren will raise Kurzick faction cap by 10,000.
* Scoring 100 points in Zos Shivros Channel will raise Luxon faction cap by 1000.
* Scoring 100 points in Aurios Mines will raise Luxon faction cap by 1000.
* Scoring 100 points in Altrumm Ruins will raise Kurzick faction cap by 1000.
* Scoring 100 points in Amatz Basin will raise Kurzick faction cap by 1000.
* Winning a battle in Fort Aspenwood for the Luxons will raise Luxon faction cap by 5000.
* Winning a battle in Fort Aspenwood for the Kurzicks will raise Kurzick faction cap by 5000.
* Winning a battle in Jade Quarry for the Luxons will raise Luxon faction cap by 5000.
* Winning a battle in Jade Quarry for the Kurzicks will raise Kurzick faction cap by 5000.
* Winning an Alliance Battle for the Luxons will raise Luxon faction cap by 5000.
* Winning an Alliance Battle for the Kurzicks will raise Kurzick faction by 5000.
* Achieving rank 1 in the Luxon title track will raise Luxon faction cap by 5000. Each subsequent rank will raise Luxon faction cap by 1000.
* Achieving rank 1 in the Kurzick title track will raise Kurzick faction cap by 5000. Each subsequent rank will raise Kurzick faction cap by 1000.
* Your faction cap will automatically increase if you have already done the following things: either of the Befriending quests, the Luxon or Kurzick mission sets, and beaten Urgoz or Kanaxai after the addition of the Hall of Monuments to Guild Wars.

I have an advantage over new players. They are required to do more work for less pay until they can catch up. By catching up I mean they have to actually play the game. Also a new player starts from scratch with no knowledge, no skills, no heroes and no equipment among many other things. Some of these tasks you see in that list mean seem like nothing to a veteran who is fully equipped but a new player will take quite a considerable amount of time to accomplish them.

I think this decision by Anet was intentional. Why give veterans 2x-3x more faction then new players AND retroactive faction handbooks?

Just my .02
****I'm only talking about Cantha by the way****

Why are people using Linsey's statement as proof that it is somehow fair? As far as I can tell she even ADMITS that it isn't fair in her statement, she just says Anet doesn't have the potential to make it fair (which is highly in question to me) and that it would affect the ecomony (which has been pointed out is a load of garbage).

qft.


56789123

This..

How hard would it be to put an NPC in the game that says "I see that you are guardian of Cantha. Let me update your book for you."

You have no records? Bullcrap, you do.

In titles.

Protector = 1 book, Guardian = two books.

Simple enough?

And who's asking for 2x-3x more faction? Didn't notice.

Hi hallomik, nice to read from you. I may have misunderstood slightly Linsey's comment (btw, for a few people here, it's Linsey, not "Lindsey") but they do have part of these records in the form of the protector and guardian titles. These should get an equivalent reward of 1 book, NM or HM, and thus the so-called "veteran" players who are here shouting at how unfair the situation is may feel appeased.

/agree with you, it's a fantastic update.

I think most of the people (including me) will be more than glad with this.

I still don't care much if the books retroactive or not.

Veteran players can H/H any new books easy in 6-12 hours/book.
for me I only have problem with Eternal Grove HM. but i checked wiki and it said no need to do master reward to finish the book so it would be piece of cake to do that

Not me..I want..

1. 80 Full HM Books for each campaign.

2. 250 Stacks of Ecto.

3. The remainding ToT bags that Anet has left over from the Halloween event.

4. A req 9 Inscribable Crystaline Sword with "Cow King" inscribed on the blade.

5. A req 9 Voltaic Spear in everyones Storage so we can have Slavers Exile back.

6. A job at anet so i can have fist fights with the game developers in the break room.

7. A date with Taylor Swift.

8. An Everlating Cow Tonic complete with "mooo" sounds and animations.

Im suing Anet for emotional stress from this update and punitave damages, and untill my demands are met, im going to continue to play this game till i die, or the mothership comes for me.
Be forewarned Anet...My lawyer has GWAMM!

this is just unfair... yes most of veternans aren't so active anymore including me but that doesn't mean that the new players should get free things were the veternans worked so hard for!

Fril, you're still failing to see the point of this whole thread: nobody here is asking for credit for EVERY TIME A MISSION HAS BEEN DONE in the past. Everyone here agrees that it would be impossibile and that it would make no sense. That's what Linsey is saying here: they couldn't anyway, since they haven't kept track of every turn-in.

People who cleared the game are ajust sking for the possibility to fill 1, ONE, ONE SINGLE book for having cleared the game already, that's it. That's plainly LOGIC, since that's what happened with EN books as well. By that time, tough, few players had played the whole game multiple times with multiple characters, so there was no "problem with economy", since the pay-per-fill books were just a few.

Look at what the NPC handing out books says when you ask to fill in missing pages:

That's ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE, since the game keeps track of your progresses in the game. We even have get a trophy ("Eternal Hero") in the HoM for clearing a campaign, even without Protector of Guardian accomplished.

I can see this insane ammount of freshly-created money could hurt economy. So, people asking for ONE retroactive book also asked for the money reward to be removed for those retroactive books.

Hope it's now clear, hope you'll finally be able to see we're asking for nothing that would hurt newer players in any way. We just don't wanna be the ones let down by this.

I guess you missed/didn't read the various recent messages where I wrote that it's exactly what Anet should give you (well, other people want new content for "veteran" players and don't care about the book, so not everyone is asking for the same thing...).

Make sure that next time that you tell someone that he didn't understand what you said, you knew/understood what he said in the first place.

EDIT: even if I think it's a legitimate request to Anet for the sake of some kind of "fairness" (for those that do not hijack the term for their own selfish sake), I think it's a bit a childish reaction. Anet made tremendous efforts, people answered very positively here, and yet other people jump on this ship and complain ad nauseam. You should create a new thread and be more constructive about this, because, even without being judgemental, one can't help to think that you're QQing (from the tone of your messages, as I said several times there are legitimate requests).

Well Linsey and the GW1 team think they're right, time will tell innit.

Thing is how many more times are the loyal 3+ year veterans gonna keep getting short changed or screwed until theres nobody left to move over to GW2. Logic dictates that this sort of updating and nerfing of skills ect.. is going to go on in GW2, the evidence is littered all over GW1 which is now so broken the game should be renamed Humpty dumpty cause they can't put this pile of digital coding back together again.

If you keep on quoting Linsey about something that has little to do with our complaint, I'll assume you still haven't got the point.

I did answer positively myself. I think this is a GREAT update. This doesn't prevent me from some criticism tough.

I didn't even plan to comment about books, I was dealing with it already... before I started reading through this thread. What you call a "childish reaction" is the result of some replies of childish people who defended this unfair situation because, basically, "veterans are unpleasant and ungrateful people who deserve this".

I'm still wondering why those people are against it, since it doesn't change a thing in THEIR game. Unless they're childish and envious of what veterans could have gotten, there's no other explanation, sorry.

Please, stop trying to win an argument here. I quoted her not to justify my point but explain hers. And I'll say it again: you didn't see or understood that I was saying it'd be only "fair" to give those that have LG 2 books.

"Veterans" are not "you and those on your side". Stop claiming it is, because it is not. You defend your point of view and it's legitimate, stop saying "we, the veteran players deserve this because of our inner quality of veterans".

Well this update doesn't change a thing in YOUR game (it's only about your feeling about Anet and how they treat you), so why the discussion?

I thought I would quote myself, seeing how the discussion has not advanced past this issue at all in the last 5 pages.

Basically, it would be nice to have credit, since we've done it before, but either way, we're not gonna do it all again...so we either get points or we don't.

that's why it's unfair,people who still need legendary guardian get cookies for it and the titles while the ones who alrdy did it get nothing

I do agree that it's unfair on some level, but how exactly did we work hard for anything?

If you perceive accomplishments in a game as work, you're either not playing it for fun anymore, or getting paid to play.

The books are obviously there to entice people to play.


And this brings us to the core of the problem. Most "veterans" don't log in to Guild Wars to actually play for fun. It's all egotripping over bragging rights or some idle hope that maxed titles will give you an edge over other players when Guild Wars 2 is released.

No. We (not only "veterans", but "we, players who could have benefited from books had they been retroactive as it seems so reasonable") are not asking for a special treatment. We deserve it because we did things before. I know a lot of veterans who have no inner quality to set them apart from the mass. I don't think I'm that great myself to claim for a special present from Anet just because I was there on Day1. Yet I spent time doing things and I DID them, so why can't I get the reward being given just now, 3 years after the launch of the first game?

Because some people - you among the others - came here to ask to stop complaining while legitimately expressing our point of view. Why?

... or to entice players who already played the game once to repeat a boring activity again just to claim for a reward, and then maybe repeating it again and again... which is anything but playing.

If books are just for playing, why giving rewards now? Isn't playing meant to be just for FUN anyway? Rewards are pointless then, get rid of them all once and for good.

And, BTW, who are you to say what's fun for those people complaining here?

I find improving my titles fun, so?

wrong if i log into gw IT IS for fun and yes i worked hard and stop talking in WE

@Fril this thread is a discussion about the books that should be retroactive that's one of the purposes of Riverside: Discussing!

You need to do the hm shiros book 83 times which is 913-914 hm missions since from my understanding the book awards of 120000 faction points goes straight to the kurzick or luxon title and not in your faction pool so thus you can't get double faction for turning in points to reward npc. The comments about making the books retroactive really would be nice but if you look at those numbers one book is a drop in the bucket of what you need to get for that title.

FFF has been nerfed.

And they upped the faction which is still slow as hell and you looking at having no life now for sure toget either title.

If anything I think they need to change the amount of faction you need for those titles from 10000000 to a smaller amount.

Lightbringer and sunspear along with any eotn titles where easier to get. In my opinion they need to balance the kurzick and luxon title to match those for ability to achieve.

I was running through factins last night and I didn't see more people at the missions then usual because no one wants to do 83 hm books that I have spoken too.

As to we deserve it bla bla bla well it would be nice but it is only a drop in the bucket and really wouldn't help us in the end.

He can talk in "WE" all he wants because from now on he represents me as well

As stated elsewhere...the official excuse for not making it retroactive (i.e. it will hurt the economy) goes beyond my reasoning capabilities since the book itself gives free money by definition upon completion

So, if we all started completing missions and trading in books it would have the same effect.

There is really no reason to demand at least the faction reward back to the people who have achieved the titles.

thee official excuse is bullsh*t the econimy won't die of people who alrdy got protector/guardian and want to claim there rewards

I don't see any disadvantage about who have done all missions before we have books.

for those people who keep asking for reward from books.
Get the book then do missions u will get same rewards as other players.
if u don't want to do all missions again just don't do it. no one force u to do that.

I think it is just so stupid to QQ about what u have done.

what's next thing u gonna QQ?

" awww give me Zaishen points coz i used Z-Keys before title was introduced."
" Anet give me Party points for those Firework i've used before Party Animal title."
" QQ give me Treasure Hunter points for my Shiverpeak Keys I used 3 years ago."

A new player can't vanquish. That new player can only vanquish when he/she completed the entire campaign. Only then Hardmode is activated.

Using your list, that new player will have his cap inreased with:

A total of 17.000 for the Kurzick side, which sums up to a 27k cap.

Remember this is accomplished with ONLY going through the story line. If that new player decides to play an AB, Challenge Mission or FA/JQ, the cap will be raised even more.

At this point, the 'new' player (or is he/she already a veteran?) probably starts his first vanquish.

The keyword here is "boring".

If, like me, you find activities in Guild Wars have turned boring, then nothing except for fresh content is going to make you want to start playing again.

To reward new players.

Guild Wars is a bargain bin miracle.

Selling copies and expansions is ArenaNet's only source of income.

So did I.

Playing with my friends towards titles was a reward in itself.

I really don't need any extra gold, experience or faction.

but i want and so others want

So..lets have an update that removes retroactive books from the game alltogether. If you were dumb enough to not take a NM or HM book with you in EOTN than you shouldnt be able to pay to get those pages filled in that book.
This isnt just about Veteran players, It goes for all players..everyone that hasnt finished a campaign has to go back and redo every mission they have already done.
If the books wernt retoactive in the first place..we wouldnt even be having this discussion.