Regarding the April 9 Game Update

That would put you in the minority. Aside from the select few that post on these very forums I dare say the majority of Guild Wars players DO care about said bells and whistles.

A year ago, exactly, also if u are looking up my posts a recent post of mine says i play at higher rank im not saying this for gloating just to prove u wrong, the quote i made is true if u dont know what your talking about shut up, hard but true, u need to learn this.
Also ur comparing me recruiting r500+ then to now which is bogus, please think before trying to out me on a public forum.

There is a difference between Guild Wars players and Guild Wars PvP players. And I'm sorry if this comes off rather ignorant, but unless you play competitive GvG or I guess HA, you are not part of the PvP community. Well, I guess there are some people who play TA pretty hardcore, but not enough to make a point about it. People who delve into RA, AB, and Competitive missions are not PvP players. They are PvE players who are occasionaly PvPing, just as PvP players occasionally PvE. I can't name one of my peers who would be upset if The HoM took away the option to display PvP titles. The people who play high end PvP and do care about the HoM are on GW pretty much 24/7 and spend more time doing things PvE related than PvP related. Hell when I'm bored I start farming max titles too. I still would not be upset if they remove my glad title from the hall of monuments. And I doubt very many others would as well.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the pvp community part, mainly because RA AB are easy to reach, also AB goes towards a PvE title thus attracting PvE'rs.

Yet another PvP'r who completely fails to remember, that nerfs to skills used in PvP only makes PvE even easier still. Don't like those mobs that use Lingering Curse, wait two shakes for the PvP crowd to get worked up, and bingo those monsters will be nerfed just for you.

I always thought the skills were split into "PvP" and "PvE", maybe im a ignorant PvP'er who doesn't know a thing about this game as people think to notice, who knows?

well either way you cant win, some were looking forward to the skill balances while others were looking for the big update, i myself was looking forward to the big update so its god to know. thanks for letting us know

AB is more of a PvP Lite. You don't really "have" to put much effort and thought in to your builds to be successful and earn faction/titles. With that said, there are a great deal of players that AB and aren't really associated with pve. Through the updates over the past year, AB has really developed its own community of players who play GW just for AB. This community isn't PvE'ers just dabbling in pvp, but actual pvp'ers doing their own thing. The point is that you can't just group AB with PvE just due to the fact that you see PvE'ers in there. AB is more of a Battlefield style gameplay, where the other pvp's are team deathmatch. For us AB'ers, skill updates are just as important as they are to the other pvp's.

PvX'rs don't really have a say in whatever format of gameplay they are not familiar with. Speaking as a player who started out as a PvE'r and later made the transition to PvP, I can say that PvE has seen enough attention.

Let's take a look at what Anet has brought to PvE since the beginning of beta:

Sorrow's Furnace (Greens), Domain of Anguish, title-blessings, Hard Mode (tomes, lockpicks, high-req weapons), Loot Scaling, Dungeons, PvE skills, Urgoz/Deep, Summoning Stones, Consumables, M.O.X., end-game area for Prophecies, Heroes

Let's now take a look at what Anet has given PvP:

Battle Isles (making a seperate character that could only play RA/HA was annoying), Isle of the Nameless, AB, HB, Reward Points, Daily/Monthly Tourneys, Obs Mode......... and endless, slightly ineffective skill updates....


Now, let's take the same PvE list and see what is still being enjoyed:

HM, Dungeons, PvE skills, Summoning Stones, Cons, Heroes.

Now, let's take the same PvP list and see what is still being enjoyed:

Battle Isles (players still RA/TA), IotN, AB, HB, RPs, d/mATs, obs mode


Face it, PvP players have become used to getting the cold shoulder by Anet and have become dependant on any attention given to them. PvE'rs have, hoever, always enjoyed something for a while until something new, easier, and more rewarding comes along. Then, they ask for more. PvP'rs actually post their suggestions on how to balance the game, but since Anet thinks they do things better, we get only a few skills changed every few months. And that's if we are lucky.

Once the game is balanced, alot more build diversity will sprout. It would actually be interesting to see who is facing who and what each team is running instead of predicting the same degenerative crap that's been around for 5 months. Until then, teams are continuing to be dependant on LC, PnH, WE, WoH, PS, and smiters.

I have 13 separate accounts, does that make me 13 people? No. I'm assuming their numbers are based on total games sold, not total active characters. I know countless numbers of people that quit because of failure upon Anet's part.

I come back to this game because of nostalgia; I had fun playing it in the past upon release and I hoped that it would continually get better. However, I am constantly let down by lack luster balance updates, little to do in PvE that isn't mind-numbingly gay, and the same boring thing to play against day by day. When I form up for GvG and play the same build almost every single match there's a problem. When I have to resort to a super overpowered removal elite to deal with overpowered hexes in PvP, there's a problem. When said builds lose to a single skill (That's right, I'm calling you out Lingering Curse) there's a problem.

What's even worse is that the community sees things differently. Let's be honest, PvP has a bigger say in balance updates because of one reason: they're on both ends of the skills. When you PvE, you cast skills on monsters that can't do anything about the game. They're easy to beat because they don't think and don't complain because they die in under 30 seconds anyways. PvP is different; you actually get feedback because people see what is balanced and what is completely ridiculous. PvP players do the feedback because no one in Anet plays at top level and theory crafts their balance updates. No PvE players give feedback for balance updates because they don't have enough of a view of how skills work to update them in the first place.

Yet again, bugged tourney reward points. I go to check my rewards and hear that people get double and i get none. I predicted also...not again!! QQ

So, my reward points are/were bugged - in the good way though, not the bad way.

They were issued 2 days after the last tournament, and again tonight. Just so I know what to expect, will ANet claw back the difference next month?

1. Since folks have been bring up nerfs for RoJ and CoP in this thread, (despite the fact that it's specifically about there not being a skill balance), I thought I'd respond.

1a. RoJ is only mildly overpowered without its AI bug. Fix the AI bug and maybe lower its power a little bit and it will be fine.

2a. CoP is fine as is. If you're dead set on a nerf, then the proper nerf would be something to kill the team tank-n-spank farm without breaking the skill for mixed parties. The best choice would be making it remove a mesmer hex from its target.

2. On the topic of the RoJ AI bug.

2a. It's one of the biggest problems with GW right now.

2b. It's an easy fix, so I don't understand why it's taking so long to fix. The improvement-to-game per dev-effort-required ratio is higher than anything else the devs could do.

(To those who say, "you don't know anything about programming, fixing RoJ could be very, very hard," well, I personally do happen to know quite a bit about programming, and I very strongly suspect that fixing RoJ's AI really is just flipping one value in a database.)


3. The criticism of a-net in this thread is absurd and uncalledfor. OK, so there's no skill update. They did something else that is both major and long overdue. I think this post deserves a reprint:

BOO

some skill's had to be updated already for more then a year so your reasons are a bit weak

This better be a godly update >.>

skill balance update? Does that translate into english that your going to be picking on the permasin YET again. the poor guys been battered back and forth give him a break please

*Smiles inwardly at the thought of the mouth-frothing set trashing their rooms screaming "I'll get you Professor Yakkington!!!" after they lost >again< in a PvP match (as usual)*

Unseen Tonic, tis neat. Reward points, are nice finally. But a Brand Spankin New Trader in Pre-Searing?!? That's Just Epic. For A-Net to finally after all these years put some time into Pre is just simply Amazing! Regina and Miss Linsie were there all night in Pre-Searing Ascalon D1 Chatting away with all of us locals.

A shame to see everyone so caught up in skill updates that there's no appreiciation going to Them for their Hard work.

As an outsider looking in at PVP it seems to me few builds/skills dominate the PVP game until it is nerfed, then a new one takes its place until it is also nerfed. (I may be way off on this so dont hang me if I am, key word is OUTSIDER)

Recently I created a Perma-Pre character and noticed something on persearing.com call the Gwen Cup - PVP type battle but using only skills from pre allowed. All weapons/runes/insignias/armor from the rest of the game were allowed. Taking this idea and extending it out to PVP in general. Would it be worth looking into have certain PVP areas competing with skills from only certain campaigns during a month?

Example would be May would be Factions month. You can only compete in the MAT with skills from factions. Would something like this remove the need to constantly nerf the dominating builds/skills in PVP? June would be Proph, July would be Nightfall, Aug would be EOTN(or combine it with other campaign if it does not have enough skills), then you could go into combinations of campaigns like Proph and Night.

So on non Proph(core) Months you could not bring lingering curse. Guilds would have to come up with other builds/strategies to win. Would rotating which skill pool you can pull from make the game fun and fresher. This would not remove the need to update skills that are overpowered, but it would keep certain skills from dominating everything every single month.

Being a PVE person I am sure there are things I may be missing that would render this idea as epic fail, such as if a PVP does not own a particular campaign he would by default unable to compete. Is PVP such that not having all the campaigns/expansions put you at a disadvantage in top competitions, if that is the case say so. Could ANET make those skills available on a temp basis for people that want to compete to remove that barrier of not having a particular campaign, such as a 30 day trail skill pack add the code to your account and bam you can play for that month with those skills.

Some of the game already will not allow you to bring certain skills to PVP, so it may not be that big a stretch to implement. On the other hand maybe it would be too big a beast to code, I am not sure. Just trying to think of ways that may improve the enjoyment of the game.

Nice. Kudos on having an ORIGINAL idea and not following the qq crowd. Seems like a great way to keep the game fresh. To add more combinations of game play they could also allow different consumables or skills from title tracks in different ways. Like one time..allow norn skills or asuran skills. Heck have one with only title track skills (if coding would allow for that to happen in only the pvp side for the duration).

But I ramble.....Great idea!

You want each month to use 1 campaign and change each different month, that is a horrible idea so the pvp'rs who bought the new campaigns have wasted money just cz they cant be assed to nerf skills sir that is a braindead idea.(from my view)

You forgot the real life prizes that people got in PVP tournaments up until April of 08.

Indeed. Stale and shitty for years, without a few weeks were people had to find out new builds to make it so.

I wonder if the situation is really that bad. Or why we did not reach at least some balance in over 4 years, 1,5 years already since the last expansion.

And now something SWEET: Izzy's team that did not manage to balance GW1 in 4 years is now working on GW2!

I really can't get the point of 'it's nerfed, now i should whine!'. What is wrong with just USING that nerf, playing endurance-Jesusmonkwarrior with a whole team, cursing the other team with LC, and just throw as many nerfs as possible in one team? Be creative, think up a good counter (if everyone is relying on hexes, throw something removal in, and you beat em). Heck, how long did it take for folks to think up the 600-monk (PvE)? Those skills were there for a long time... Go be a good player, and do something with the skills that are given to you. Anet will change them if they feel fit, until then, deal with em.

Let's see what April brings us... No eggies yet.

I thought I've already answered why there is no balance. Balance is subjective, not definitive, and otherwise non-existent. One person's balance is another person's annoyance. For instance, the guy further up on page 16 was commenting about how permasin's have been getting hit with unnecessary nerfs. He probably thinks the perma-sin is balanced. I, on the other hand would love to see permasins get hammered again. To me, the permasin is unbalanced. As far as PvP goes, so long as there are cookie cutter spiking builds that use basically 1-3 of different primary professions, there is not balance.

I do not WANT anything I was putting forward a suggestion.

I would not envision this across all PVP sections just the Monthly Tourney for example which seems to be the one talked about mainly. Guild Signs up for MAT and then the limitation would take effect ONLY while competing in that contest. I dont see how this is a waste of money for people please explain.

@ wicked - thanks!!!

I also find English Warrior's argument funny by saying that owning all the campaigns (a requirement for any serious PvPer anyways) is somehow detrimental. Pretty much nobody who currently participates in the monthly tournament would be restricted from playing due to Tullzinski's idea.

Tullzinski, well done on thinking along as opposed to simply defending "your" side. However, ideas like this have been brought up before. There was even an official NF-only tournament I think already.

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...ht=Sealed+Deck

A suggestion by Moriz in september 2007
Though not completely the same, it has enough similarities. I believe this shows exactly why people who mostly PvP are frustrated. Anet has been given detailed solutions. Perfect? Probably not, the people who suggest these type of changes are not game designers. But if nothing comes out of them, skill balances are the only thing that do anything.

Actually, I think Izzy has even at times talked about wanting to do this? I'm not sure, never bothered to read wiki talk-pages much but if he did I'm sure someone is able to confirm this.

I can only hope and pray that part of this huge update includes a BARBER !
LoTRO has one, many other games as well. Anything you could do in real life should be implemented for your character. Hair style, color, color of skin (think tanning booths). Keep face. Name change one time per year, 500g, one skill point or something like that to keep it from being abused. Bring it !

Dear Anet:
Thanks for the heads up. I know I would much rather know what's up, be it for better or worse, than wonder.

Live team, keep doing what you're doing. No matter what people are saying, they're all glad you're there doing what you do, even if it doesn't always seem to be in their own best interests. Some of us believe you are paying attention and working to address what you can, even when it turns into something bigger than you'd expected, and I for one thank you for not ditching the effort.

To the folks working on GW2 who were pulled back to address this update, and to whoever decided it was worthwhile, you have my thanks as well. It tells me you are still interested and you want to keep the game going. That gives me the warm fuzzies.

To the folks who are upset about being stuck with the same metagame for a couple more weeks, you could always try to have fun with it. And if it's just beyond bearable, maybe this would be a good time to find another good book to read or something. Please try to remember it's a game, it's supposed to be fun. If it's not, just be aware you've surely got other things to do. I would suggest (re)reading Drizzt, Myth, or Bartimaeus if you're just wanting some entertainment.

But most of all, all you folks at working on this, as you read these replies, please remember- some people would rather complain than risk being happy. You can't avoid it, it's going to happen.

I for one look forward to this update, I hope it goes well, and again,

Thank you.

$10.00 for a Xunlai Tab is the WORST idea I have ever seen. I would have DEFINITELY paid $5.00 for 20 spaces more of storage, but why in god's name would I want to pay $10.00 for 20 spaces when I could buy a new character for that price and have 45 spaces (or more with this new character storage), or another copy of prophecies and have a whole other account of storage? REALLLLLLY bad decision on the pricing Anet. I seriously hope Regina sees messages like this and they change their pricing. I understand that server capacity dictates you need to charge for this, but $10.00 for a tab of 20 spaces of storage? Really Anet? How stupid do we look?

Totally agree with you. I'm thinking the same things.

Overall, I'm disappointed, but I can deal with that.
I get more storage? This is good.
I have to pay to get even more, at the same price of a second account/extra slots? Doesn't make much sense there.
Hall of Monuments becomes account wide? Could care less. Yay, I can bring people into my HoM and have them look at all I've done. More e-peen all around.
I get my reward points? Yep. Happy there. Sorry to whoever didn't; it sucks to be you.
No skill changes? Ouch. UWSC gets another month, and I still don't want to make a sin. RoJ and CoP are still overpowered. PvE players who don't use them will keep crying, and those who do still won't care. As soon as they are nerfed, something else will pop up to take their place and it will start over again. And most of the PvP community just gets pissed again, because the meta will not change without a balance.
I'm kind of looking forward to the Menagerie and Challenge quests. I'm tired of having a wolf. From the description of the Challenge it looks like the PvP ones will be something to the effect of "Win X rounds in Y area!" and we get the one/two day(s) of influx into Y arena, then after a few weeks no one really cares anymore. The PvE ones COULD bring more interest back into neglected areas, but as soon as the new pve "meta" comes into effect, it will probably be the same as any high end area.
Should Anet have delayed the skill balance in favor of the "huge" update? Maybe, maybe not. But with the majority of resources being directed at GW2 (rightfully so) they probably had no choice. It may depend on how late or not they make the May update, and how much thought they put into it. For now, it just looks like until the big update, we'll have to wait.

@Hawk - I thought I was missing something


I am not surprised that this kind of idea(in whatever form) has already been put forward seems like a good change of pace. Adopting something along these lines would get ANET out of the kill the build/skills rut they seem to be in.

Only some skills have a PvP and a PvE version.. in all the incessant QQ'ing going on, I've never seen a single person asking for only PvP skill changes.

Lingering Curse is not a problem in PvE, but all the posters seem to want it taking a huge nerf bat, and pretty much the same thing with all the other skills mentioned, Mind Blast.. et al.. these are not broken in PvE, and calling for them to nerf these skills in PvE, only makes PvE even easier still.

So please remember when asking to nerf skills make sure you preface that request with "in PvP only".

I am pretty sure that this is already implied when asking for a nerf or an adjustment to any given skill as very rarely is it ever seen that a skill is called for a nerf or adjustment due to PVE reasons.

Most if any PVE'rs are never going to bitch about something making PVE imbalanced and call for it to be changed...

Hi, cloud. I understand your perspective on this. I've been keeping an eye on the community response on this. I've already spoken to folks in the business team several times and conveyed all of the different responses to the storage update, including the opinions that it's "overpriced". We know that some people will choose not to buy this feature for any number of reasons. However, we've also seen a large number of comments from people who intend to buy it.

Maybe a middle ground?

A Lot of people have said they would buy for $5, so why not two tabs for $10 and leave it at that?

If it were my business, I'd set the price at $10, let everyone that's going to buy it, buy it. Then, reduce the price so that those that refuse to buy it at such a high price then buy it at the reduced price, thus maximizing profits - of course, you keep all this on the down low and don't let them know you're doing this -- that way you look like the good guys, like "We've studied the market trends, and largely due to customer response, we have decided to lower the price of storage panes to $4.99 to better provide service to a larger consumer base." Then, at that point, you're going to have a whole bunch of people congratulating you for listening to them, and happily buying your product. Of course, they don't know you intentionally screwed them over, but all in all, business in business, and you're in it to make money.

That's just my two cents.

Regina,

I'll even offer to put my money where my mouth (or words) are:

I've got $60.00 (some of my early birthday money, yay!) set aside on the chance ANet might have something on offer for the 4th anniversary. If the storage tabs are put on sale for $5 each (buy 4 tabs for $20, for instance) I'll spend all of that $60 on them (I have multiple accounts). I'd also add another $20 worth of tabs (if $5 each) on top of that, which is currently set aside for another game!

On the other hand, barring some other special you folks might run, none of that money will go to ANet, certainly not for tabs at $10 each. Not now, not ever, that is overpriced, IMO.

So far I've spent exactly $251.47 (yeah I keep track of these things, financial software FTW) on Guild Wars (multiple accounts, some In-Store stuff). I gladly spend money on things I consider worthwhile and good value. Like many people, I'm on a strict budget these days, so value for the dollar is important. I know I'm not alone on this as most everyone I've talked with in game or out says $5 is fair, $10 is way overpriced. I know there are processing fees involved, which is why I mentioned perhaps only offer that price if you buy all 4 at once, so that would be $20 at once.

So run that by those marketing types. $80 or zip, nada, nothing... multiplied by many many more players like me. You can even make sure I honor this post as you can easily get my info and all accounts are registered under the same name. Yes, I know that is very likely against the rules, but someone at ANet has access to that info and can confirm it for you, should such a sale or price happen.

Anyone else willing to make a similar offer and honor it?