Regarding the April 9 Game Update

PvE is not even close to being dead. The amount of things to do obviously decreases, but how many games are there that actually increase the things to do. I've been playing nearly from the start, and I still find things enjoyable to do. If you don't like it GTFO, and play something else, or maybe, dare I say, get a real life and something more meaningful to complain about. Good Job Anet in advance for the upcoming content, I for one am excited and happy for it, because you don't owe us a damn thing afterall.

The majority of the skill balances are useless anyway so maybe an unpolished one would be good for a change.

If you paid any attention to PvP, you'd realize that the current meta is shittier than usual. Last month was bad, this month is going to be the exact same thing, except more angry players. If the game was fairly balanced then yes, a month without a skill balance would be decent, but that's not the case.

I do not claim to be an expert on any of this, but haven't people been saying "Current meta is shitter than usual" since the beginning of the game?

thank you pve'rs for supporting skill updates. imo this really isn't a pvp vs pve discussion. there are some pvp'rs that i know that also hate nerfs. some pvp'rs would rather just run the same imba build over and over again to farm ha rank.

imo this is really players vs farmers. its just that pve tends to have more farmers than pvp does.


tbh i think saying "people will have different reactions" is a lame excuse to defend anet's decisions on game updates. do they not know their game or community well enough to know what kind of reaction people will have? this months update obviously caters to a specific demographic, so its pretty obvious as to what kind of reaction you will get from people who fit that demographic and people that don't.

they chose to ignore the skill balance update, and its really as simple as that. this is an indication of what the developers place importance on in their game first and foremost, and how the community will perceive it second. i wouldn't be surprised at all if the current gw1 devs cared more about minipets and tonics and the storage to keep them in, than they do about skill balance. since izzy is pretty much absent (afaik), who over there cares deeply about skill balance?

There are always people who will say that, doesn't always mean it's true. But this meta is quite shitty.

I'm so thrilled that having more room for my useless junk is of a greater priority to arena net than doing what really needs to be done, fixing the thing this game excelled at over every other single game (pvp).

Yea I understand the PvE only players deserve large updates too, and rightfully so, they are a part of the community. But that should not come at the expense of the very minuscule skill updates that come out to change the pace of GW PvP, hopefully for better but sometimes its been for worse. If you don't have enough resources and people dedicated to fixing GW 1, most likely because they are all on GW2, then FFS put more people on GW1 whether it is hiring more people, giving the community more power in skill balancing or *gasp* taking people off of GW 2.

Taking people off GW 2 to fix GW1 is not a big deal to me and most likely isn't for most of the PvP community. Why make a brand new game when the original game is broken as hell? The exact same problems are going to occur in GW 2 if they are not figured out first in GW 1. I'd rather wait another 2-3 years for a very well balanced nearly perfect GW2 than 1 year for a GW 2 that simply is just a fancy large skill update from GW1 where the exact same problems will occur and broken crap will take priority and GW2 will essentially be GW1's retarded twin with flashier clothing.

go ahead and flame away because I'm suggesting your dumb little game comes out even later than you want it. Sorry that I would like to have something extremely fun to play rather than the same broken crap.

Im only waiting for the last tonic in the cycle. I hope it will be epic

This sounds like poor project management for the skill update team

I wonder, why is it that people need to interject their internet BS-isms (lulz) into a rational discussion...does it "break up the tension", does it lighten the mood, or is it just a knee-jerk reaction to act like a jackhole when you're trying to talk down to someone? You quoted the guy but added in something that he didn't say. Does "mixing it up" mean he's a child, or he's not taking GW or this discussion seriously?

This is what happens when children are given a free voice in a discussion...they have to dumb it down to their level.

As for the actual discussion...why do you kids think that you're entitled to on-schedule skill balance, and if you don't get it you have the right to criticize professional developers and ask why they're not doing their jobs correctly? Poor project management...give me a break. It's been stated that these developers have been working overtime, on their free time away from their assigned projects just to get these updates released. It's so easy to be a critic when you don't have to face the accused...but until you can walk a mile in their shoes, I suggest you all grow up and leave your snide sarcastic criticisms to yourselves.

Come on A11Eur0, Ô prophet among the prophets, god among the gods, hallowed be thy name etc.. Do you hear yourself ? You're self-centered, and seeing everyone else as a kid. Besides you believe what regina said. Don't be so naive and try to grow up please...

Hello, I am going to turn 13 soon and become an adult. Right now I cant use swears or anything that adults can use to get their point across, like for example I cant hit the zaishen chest with my belt when it gives me a creme.

I dont know what to do, on the one hand I want to become an adult so I can use swears and order pizzas, but on the other hand when I turn adult I should grow up and not play on video games anymore and I should focus on making children.

What I really want to do is have 7 children and we can all play on the same Guild Wars teams and this way nobody can say no to being on my team or I will kick them out of the guild.

I have played the game with adults and its kind of creepy, like this old man I played with he is 15 years old, he uses swears but isnt he too old for this game? I think he is like michael jackson and he tries to be around children.

PS Anet can you please remember to give me a good zaishen drop this time because I promise that when I turn 13 and am adult I will cuss out all of these people that dont appreciate you

Just don't take away my RoJ before I do Shards of Orr...

^^ what he said

I tend to agree with this. Providing an update once a quarter may be a goal that is out of reach. Might be possible if the team had the luxury of only dealing with that. A review of that policy may be in order.

Content Updates
Content updates will be done separately from the monthly maintenance and occur every three to four months. By spacing out our content releases, we gain the time to tackle larger and more difficult projects that, previously, would've been impossible. Some features that once seemed unattainable are now being explored as upcoming projects. We are even expanding the Live Team to offer more of the best quality support and content that we can for Guild Wars. With this new system, we release our new content in fewer yet more substantial updates. We want players to feel connected to what we are developing even though it may be months away from release, so during development we will be more open about our process and what we are working on.

Coming Attractions
The Live Team is now designing the first big content update of 2009, which we expect to release in April. We had many discussions towards the end of last year and ended up with a major wish list and a plan for what it would take to make that list a reality. At this point, we have a clear idea of what is ahead of us and we hope everyone will be as excited about these prospects as we are.

Here are a few features we are currently developing for April:

Increases to account-based storage
Improvements to character-based storage
Account-based changes to the Hall of Monuments
Retrieved from "http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/ArenaNeteveloper_updates/Archive_Jan-Mar_2009"

Yes I'm self-centered, yes I see most people on here as kids. Why? Because that's what you all act like. Sure it's a game, and games are played by kids. But there's a time and place for everything...misquoting someone just to project your own immaturity on the other person, either to take them down a peg or lift yourself up on a pedestal so you can feel you're equal to them is ridiculous. Kids have to learn how to act like adults eventually, otherwise they go through life being complete idiots. If nobody is willing to help teach children how to be adults, this world will be worse off. Stop using the excuse that this is just a gaming forum and there's no place for "being mature"...because that's just a copout. I liken this whole scenario to the playground at MacDonald's. The actual game is the playground....the forums and the in-game chat are the sit-down restaurant. It's OK to play games, act like a child, in the playground. But when you get back into the restaurant, it's time to calm down and be polite.

So you don't believe anything Regina says? why bother even reading her threads? When has Regina proven herself to be a liar, like Gaile? At least there's proof out there that Gaile Grey was feeding the community a bunch of BS lines..Regina on the other hand really only comes on this board to make official announcements and clear up blatant falsities when they arise. She doesn't coddle the playerbase, pretending to be our best buddy while leeching off of us to get her own fix of "goodies" that she didn't really earn. Regina has shown a much more stand-up attitude towards this community and I think she deserves to be heard and given at least the benefit of the doubt.

And when did I swear, axe?

The problem with this assumption, is that there is always someone who bitches about changes in the game, whether it's for the best or not. The vocal minority is always louder than the silent majority I'm afraid.

You missed the point, I didn't MEAN PvE is dead, I mean the playstyle, the environment is dead. To put in a PvE'ers language: "Charr don't care if they get farmed by a 1000 damage RoJ".
People do, that's the difference. Sure, PvE has more members, and in it's current state, it's definatly more fun. Nontheless, GW was supposed to PvP based, (GUILD -as in guilds- WAR -as in wars between them-) not PvE based.

Right now, GW is lingering somewhere in between. Without any end-game content besides useless armors (I farmed 1 month for my FoW, I finally got it, and what do I do next? I start farming for my titles/next armor)
So it definatly isn't a high-flyer when it comes down to PvE, simply due to the fact that GW can be completed in about 2 weeks, give or take. From there on, it's just repetitive grind, with no form of variation whatsoever.

PvP is a joke... (No really, no need to explain this anymore)

They even anounced the follow-up as GUILD WARS2. So please, don't promote your game as PvP game, unless you actually have some PvP in it. And with PvP, I don't mean Build Wars, Armor Wars (copyright WoW) or something completely beyond reason. (AoC was so imbalanced)

On a side note: If you still find GW fun after 3 years, then that's you liking repetitive grind. I admire people who can do the same thing over and over and over and over and over again, but I find myself loosing too much braincells if I have to, yet again, complete XX mission, quest or farm.

I'm not saying I don't want PvE updates tough, I want ANY update really. But why does Anet keep luring us in with "Skill balance upcomming" when we keep getting a slap in the face. This really is about the 10th time orso in the past 2 years they delayed a skill update.
Delaying is expressing it nice. I would surprise me if we actually got this "April's Update" before June.
Non-the-less, they lived up to their standards again tough, as the April's update truly is an amazing April's Fools Joke...

Being able to build a jet plane doesn't mean you can fly it. People with experience flying ( pilots ) can have a good say, because they know what it's actually like. If the engineer stays too stubborn, the pilot won't be happy because the jet will still fly like shit.

Replace the words jet plane for game, fly for play, pilots for players and engineer for izzy and you've got Guild Wars.

It's because most of them have had it that way all of their lives and don't know any different. They are the children of entitlement. The internet just gives them a big soap box to stand on and criticize anything that doesn't satisfy their own personal agendas. They spew out hurtful statements with little regard to other peoples feelings. No skills update!! The sky must be falling!! Please remember it is only a game, not real serious stuff.

Eh people are just bored and enjoy drama. Also wow at "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 323" Things are just heating up!

Yep, sure do. But that doesn't mean that the team does, it certainly doesn't mean that the monsters do. And, it just doesn't hit that creative spot that reading the new skill description the first time and wondering how it's going to change the way you play -- what's going to work well with it, what needs to be pulled because of it, what monsters will need to be approached differently... It isn't just switching up a build from the skills that you already had to work with, it's CHANGE, and it's throughout the game, and that's what makes it cool.

I'm not complaining that the skill update isn't taking place this month, I can certainly understand and appreciate the team being stretched to the limit on the Quarterly. I do very much appreciate their work, and the fact that they are testing the work -- I generally turn down Beta invitations as bugs are frustrating -- I'm just saying that in general skill updates are one of the best parts of Guild Wars. They help make the game fun. I'm actually really looking forward to whatever is going to appear in the new update, especially if there is new content (read: red dots) involved.

While I don't agree with the "kids" bit, I do agree with the whole business of what ANet are giving us shortly. Have you worked as a developer? Do you understand the complexities of coding, testing and delivering a major update? I doubt it. When you are overhauling certain features (adding to them in general), there is so much that could go wrong. And you don't want to be muddying the water with extra changes that are external to the main update.

It is plain to see how much effort the devs and all have put into this update but still its not good enough for some here. So we dont have a skill update, they have prioritised the update based upon what they feel is best. So instead of giving them crap about all of this, some thanks might be nice since they have gone above and beyond the call of duty to release something like this. Did they have to? No. Since this is not a pay-per-month game, realistically they don't have to give us a thing, apart from server/game maintenance and the likes.

Agree, this most certainly is not an appreciation thread!!

You seriously think most pvp players are fired up about stoarge and HoM? Either you don't pvp or you're kissing some serious ass, or both.

There are many different demographics to work with, that doesn't make Regina's explanation lame, it makes it sensical.

In my alliance there are elite area farmers, title hunters, competitive mission players & AB'ers, arena players, what I'll call grind farmers because they do the same monsters -- like raptors -- over and over again. There are people who love change and people who hate change, people who think the most important thing in the world is how many titles you have, and people who think that the most important thing is how good your armor looks when you're standing in the guildhall. Multiply that 5 million times over and you have the community.

Whether you think it's lame or not the truth is some people, the people who have the part of the game that they most like positively impacted by the update, will be thrilled. And the people that have the aspect that they love the most negatively impacted by the update -- like you -- will be bitchy.

In the long run A-Net has to please some of the people some of the time. It's all they can do. They chose to wait on skill update this time the same way that they've chosen to wait on fixing the HOM at other times. It doesn't mean that they don't care about skill updates -- read Regina's OP once more -- if they didn't care about skill update they could push out some kinda garbage and moved on. But they do. And they also care about PvE updates, and they care about finding minis that people like, and they care about how many places people have to put the 8 sets of armor they bought because they like to change clothes. This time your little corner of the world didn't get the attention. Insulting the devs because of it just makes you look ignorant.

Life bites. Just use the swears when you can get away with it and let the rest take care of itself. Until then, griefing is your friend.

If engineers kept making planes that flew like shit, enough so that pilots would complain so much about them, stop flying or crash them, they'd be out of a job. More people play GW than ever, according to the numbers. Sure, that could just be multiple accounts per person, but there's no way of determining that. The Devs made a game where people still play after 4 years, and likely will continue playing for years to come. They did a good job. That's all there is to it. Small changes that piss off a select few people aren't much at all in the grand scheme of things. Skill changes are meaningless...as long as there are multiple skills to choose from, there will be people taking advantage of obscure overpowered combinations. I'd prefer they spend most of their energy streamlining more widespread changes like this coming update. More storage, more efficient ways of storing things, these are things that benefit every player, not just a few PVP'ers who can't do anything but run the meta.

Three cheers for another month of warrior's endurance, smiting and omega spikes...oh **** me

It is not as if changes were unrevertable, the live team could actually attach a small skill updates - directed to the most broken ones - even with the smiter's boon method, as long as there are changes, the crowd will be happy. So that we could have both the pvers and the pvpers satisfied.

programming can be hell, change 1 thing and you can get about 100 bugs.
you find about 50 of them, 2 hours before you release it you find another 30 and the players find the other 20 and exploit them like hell.

Something we must all recall is that it's the fourth year of GW. I think they must be used to updates in the end, don't they ?

Maybe if your coding is horrendously bad? How hard can it be to change the variables on skills?

Again we get people who probably have never spent a day coding a best-selling computer game in their lives saying "how hard can it be?"

I don't code, I never had interest in it, and I will not sit there and say "how hard can it be" because I know that it's more than just going in and saying "change XX to YY."

Anyone have any ideas if/when the Z-keys are coming today..?
Sorry if i misread the opening post but i was under the impression they are coming today/night?

Sorry to break it to you, but no they didn't. There may be some PvE players who have played the game since release and that is great. It's because new things kept getting added and their "game" hasn't changed that drastically over time. Sure some builds were killed here and there and some means of farming are no longer viable, but the premise of the game is still the same and anyone can do it. For some people that and the friends they have made through guilds and other various teams has made this game enjoyable enough for them to play for 4 years.

In PvP there are like maybe 2 or 3 people who have played GvG competitively and were top competitors in the GWWC and GWFC days. And very few people who played competitively but weren't top 100 material. The majority of those players left the game because the game got stale and the ones who stayed past Nightfall eventually left because the game became so broken and unbearable that they could no longer tolerate it and accepted the fact that all hope was lost of the game going back to its so called "glory days". That and the fact that real life prizes are nonexistent unless you sell gold which is against the rules i guess.

The point is, players have come and gone across the pvp scene, new guilds rise and eventually fall victim to the horrible skill balancing and quit the game.

It isn't a matter of oh no you are ignoring us this month and only catering to the PvE crowd. It is more of a, your game is extremely broken and needs to be fixed and rather than spending time putting useless things into the game like more storage (and it is useless, you don't need 800 sets of armor I'm sorry) you should be spending your time discussing with the community the issues that surround balance and doing everything you can to fix this, even if that includes taking people off GW2 to concentrate matters on the real issue at hand.

Also I believe it was you who said we are kids for demanding skill updates every month like we deserve them. And in essence we do deserve them every month, until the game is balanced (or at least enjoyable to play again). When you make a game, you make it in hopes that it is the greatest game of its time. If you aren't trying to make the game the best it can be, why are you in this business? If it is to just make money, then I'm sorry but why should I support you? The developers do owe us their ears (or in this case eyes) to our opinions and do need to take them into consideration to allow this game to be the best it possibly can be. Right now we are far from what this game can be, and making it the best it can be should be their top priority.

And if you are going to say, if you don't like it go play another game, sorry but Guild Wars is the only game right now with the PvP to potentially be the greatest the gaming world has ever seen. Even in this crappy state it is in, it still is the best out there, or very close to it. But it still needs to be fixed.

Yes, Zaishen Keys and the new tonic will be out later on today.

The point is there are still tons of people playing GW. If GW all of a sudden stopped getting new players and old players did a mass exodus, you'd have a point. What are you breaking to me, that you'll agree with what I said? There are people playing since release. Period. I never said everyone. I never said what they did. I said they're playing. I've been playing since release. That alone proves my statement.

the game isn't broken. If the game was broken, there would be the same people winning everything every month, there would be a 100% or near-100% rate of completion in speed clear groups. This doesn't happen. The game isn't broken because there's nothing seriously imbalanced enough to make every strategy that isn't Flavor of the month fail hardcore. Just because most players go up against a strong build that has more than 2 players running the same elite skill and don't have the ability to counter it, doesn't mean that elite skill is overpowered, it means those players need to learn how to make new builds to counter these new strategies.

Harder than you realise, since it may not just be variables that they would change on a particular skill.

Its a pyramid effect though. An example being they decide to change the functionality of Dwayna's Kiss. Enchantment and hex based for the heal buff is kept but they decide to add conditions into the heal as well. Voila, an overpowered skill in the making.

So you code it, the new variable values take effect. You then have to check how it performs in three environments - PvP, PvE Player and PvE foe. The foes are tested per area, checking each generic monster that uses it to make sure nothing is too bad. They find that, in the hands of compentant parties, all of a sudden the foe monks using this skill are now outhealing the damage being done. So thats a bug right off the bat. Back they go to tweak it. You then find that, due to the change in the functionality of skill, the foe's AI uses it not as expected. So off you go again to root out why and fix it accordingly. The same will be for PvP and PvE skill bars (minus the AI!). So its a continuous process that you will never truely know what the change of a simple few variables will mean to any environment.

I have over simplified this something rotten but I hope it gives you an glimmer of an idea of how complex things are....

ta
Just hope its soon, 21:48 here ^^

GW AI is much simpler than that. from what i've seen, they operate based on a script, with each individual skill usage scripted in. this explains why the AI does not (or at least, DID not) use healing burst properly, because it is (or was) scripted as a point blank heal even after the function change.