Hundreds of hours for a few equipment pack slots?!?

500 for the 10 slot, 1500 for the 15 slot and 3000 for the 20 slot would be a lot more reasonable imo.

This current arrangement is just giving players incentive to farm the PvP quest of the day for coins and balth, which is really annoying if you're not farming the quest because people want to keep re-rolling.

If you don't enjoy playing the game enough to get the bags then why would you want them? The 10 slot bag is really cheap and that should be good enough for everyone anyway.

I enjoy the hell out of the game, I just don't want to spend the little time I can spend on it doing exactly what the Zaishen want me to. If I want bags, I'll have to spend weeks if not months not making any progress at all on the characters I'm developing.

Not going to happen. The Zaishen can #%$# the hell off, I'm buying my bags from players.

I've earned two 10-slotters so far without even farming the quests, just cherry picking what I like. That's like a whole new storage tab in a week, and combined with the complimentary tab I can already see my storage problems disappearing. In a month all my main account characters will have 10-slotters on them

Then you assumed wrong, pumpkin!

Are you telling me how I'm suppose to play this game..?

(Are you lot actually dumb enough to not see the sarcasm in my previous posts..?)

So much for "hundreds of hours"... I know some people already got their 20 slot bag and im 7 silver coins away from getting mine.

Can you remember how many hours it took to gain that 20 slot bag You are the first person i have had the chance to ask and how many times you had to do quests etc.

I am just curious...

pvp exploits ftw!

bet none of them did it without the pvp quests / hb exploit-farming.

I have not exactly kept track but these are my estimates: I have done the gvg quest on 9 characters, ta quest on 8 characters, ab quest on 7 characters, HA quest on 3 characters, HB quest on 7 characters and the RA quest on 1 character. I have also accidentaly gave in the wrong quests etc so I didnt do all of them with the complete bonus. I did a few of the pve quests, probably like 5 total on 1 character.

As for time played.. I really dont know. I have played a lot over the past week but a lot of that time wasn't spend on getting zcoins.

Grind? What grind? It's not like you to do the same thing over and over again...

Two suggestions having in mind the way "rune of holding" works.
(If this has already been suggested, torch the post )

Make the bags upgradeable so someone can invest on the 5 slot bag and start using it and later on he/she can pay the price difference to the next bags price, and so on.

Make the bags tradeable to a merchant for a fair amount of z-coins so someone can gradually go from the 5 slots bag to the 20 bags slot with a minor z-coin penalty due to the buy-sell procedure.

Didn't realise you could do this - thanks. Is it also possible to trade your old pack to another player after you upgraded yourself?

Of course, when not equipped it's just a rather ordinary inventory item. I expect to see a brisk second hand market for 10 and 15 slotters as people upgrade to larger models over time.

De-lurking...

I really *hate* this update - so many nice ideas and so corrupted by mistakes ANet really shouldn't be making by now.

It *is* grind. When you take a game and turn it into a chore, by removing the usual freedom a player has to do what they want to do, it becomes grind. So what if the activites are varied? I'm still going to feel like I'm on a treadmill for the next x-months, even if the scenery changes. And it's put me off Z-Quests, that I actually thought were a nice idea, until they were revealed as mandatory for a decent sized pack. People should be playing these because they want to pug, not because they've been forced to for the storage they need.

And I do *need* that pack! I have to shuffle inventories every time I change toons. The 5-pack is just insulting - cost is way too high and it only offers equivalent space to the 100g belt pouch I've had to fill with books.

Storage as a reward is just a horrible idea. Ironically, given the update started out as a HoM "fix" - it's the worst addition to GW since EotN.

Yeah, I know.. QQ Moarz.. whatever...

I picked up an Orange Box in a bargain bin the other day, so I'm off to play TF2, until ANet figures out how to make the process of getting a pack suck less.

read this :

As a pvp player, I think this is a bit much for just one bag, although this can't really be called grinding. I personally hate AB and never do HB, but GvG and HA are my favorites, so it won't be too difficult for me to get bags.

Now consider you're a pve player, pve rewards are much lower, if you want to get a bag fast enough, you have to do things on multiple characters, that's where the grind begins.

still dont think its grind tho if you have multi characters wouldint you want those missions quests done any way

What is "fast enough" though? The rate I'm going is "fast enough" and I don't feel like I'm grinding. I don't do much repetition of each daily quest (don't have many level 20 characters, and only one of them has access to all areas). It will take me quite some time to get a 20 slot bag, but that doesn't bother me at all. 15 slot might be enough anyway.

But it seems for most people on guru, only "right now" is "fast enough", so they can get back to all the stuff they do every day in GW that's new, non-repetitive, and non-grinding (sarcasm). That's if they've ever played GW at all of course, because in some cases you'd think a 20 slot equipment pack was so essential, that they haven't been able to even start playing GW for the last 4 years.

This is very true, for a week all I've been doing in GW is zaishen quests and if I stop I won't be able to make any progress to get the damned bags.

Like another poster said, you have most likely done all the missions / quests and killed all the bosses more than just a few times, especially with all the updates, titles, elite caps, etc. ANet have had on offer for the last 2 years.
So, yes, you have done it before. I know I have.

ANet made a fundamental mistake with the bags in wanting to offer too much. They never should have had 4 size options for the bags.
They should only have offered the 20 slot bag. Or maybe the 10 slot bag. Nothing else. That is all we have had for years anyway (other than the belt pouch with 5 slots, which isn't even bag).
With too many options of course people are going to compare the cheapest and best value for time and money.

I am getting the feeling they made the 20 slot bags that much on purpose, to push people to give up and rather buy the storage panes at $9.99. More money for them, right?
Or even another char slot.

1 month of real casual playing should be enough (eg : mission and/or bounty every day and some pvp), that would bring you something like 100 coins/day, which would make the heavy equipment pack around 3k or 4k copper coins.

7k500 copper requirement makes packs too far from reach for pve only players (100 zcoins for 4 bosses in doa hm, when you can get the same just for a hoh jump if you play at the right hour ?).


You like doing questions and answers all by yourself, don't you ?

It's not because YOU like things the way they are that everybody has to think alike.

I've got 6 gold coins atm and I've only done 2 pvp quest (HB and RA on one char, so not even that many coins for that), the rest pve. Everyone whining about how expensive the bags are should come back in a couple of months. Then the question will be: WHAT do we do with all our coins?! The answer is probably z-keys, but still: it's not that difficult to get at least 3 heavy equipment bags in 2 months of regular play, especially if you pvp with them huge rewards. Personally, I'm just going for the 10 or 15 slot bags (I don't have tons of shields etc on my chars, just a few elite armor sets), so my 8 chars should have those within a month.

Yes, Mr Psychologist who has studied all my posts, and without even meeting me, has mapped out my entire personality and behavior profile.

Did I say that everyone has to think like me? No, I only gave my point of view. Does it annoy you that it is not the same as your point view?

My point is, why the hurry to get a 20 slot bag? So what if it takes a long time? How did people manage before equipment bags came along, and what is stopping them continuing exactly as before?

Anybody who thinks it's grind - the zaishen quests are about as varied and un-grindy as GW is ever going to get, because there is NOTHING to do in GW that you haven't done x times already. Buy a 5 slot, there's an instant improvement. Pick and choose the quests that suit you, you'll get a bigger pack eventually. Spend the rest of your time doing whatever it is you do in GW (that you think is "not grind"). What's the hurry?

Tbh i'm quite happy with a 5-slot equipment bag, I only need to carry a couple of different attribute glasses, a different staff and a bow for pulling. As for excess weapons etc, i've started giving them to my friends who need them, they've sat there for ages, so they might as well be used by others.

Think about it people, maybe you don't NEED all the junk you've got in your storage. If not, consider selling/giving it to people you know.

As for the influx of Z-coins, i've looked at the reward tables, and there's nothing there i really want, so will join the crowd and z-key the lot whenever possible.

Rofl... Are you serious ? Aren't you the one who understood what "most people on guru" want ?


Your failed sarcastic post is what annoys me.

Anet introduced new content that is not just for looks (yes, inventory slots are something important for many players), and made it out of reach for most of its player base...

The fact that YOU can wait 3 months to get a bigger pack doesn't solve the problem at all.

You can help with research: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zaishen_Summoning_Stone

To answer all those people wondering how we have been managing till now with our storage - short answer: We haven't.

I don't know about the rest, but I have been 'managing' by buying and creating mule chars. I have 4 mules thus far, out of 15 chars.
I also move items between my chars inventories. For instance, when there is a big farming weekend coming and I need a lot of space on my sin - I first clear my storage chest by moving the items to 2 or 3 of my other chars that have some space, 10-20 slots, free.
Then I move stuff from my sin to my storage.
Then I go farming.

All this (item moving and mule creations) just because ANet never catered for enough storage from the very beginning, especially as the new chapters, armors, weapons, upgrades, books etc. rolled out. Things got very tight with the release of EotN.
Compared to this, WoW basically has 'unlimited' storage.

In the interim, I bought 5 slot bags for all my chars, even some mules, which gave some immediate relief.
I will have to settle on the 10 slots or 15 slots bags, since I cannot see myself dumbing down to get the 20 slot bags. It is madness.
I would still like to know what ANet was thinking with these bags and the time-cost it takes to get them. They are obviously going for the long-haul with this one, keeping people busy. It doesn't make sense to offer something the majority of players will never get, of which several posts have been made already.

In a week or 2, the 20 slot bags may be on the market from players which is when I will then buy it.
Then I can start with gathering some armors for my chars with the added space, but until then, meh - I will keep waiting and guess not be in such a damn 'hurry'. I mean I have waited for 4 years, now right? Why be in a 'hurry' now?

QQ

Yes they take a little time and effort but that's beside the point. Enjoy the quality of work that was put into the Zaishen quests. Stop a moment and relearn to play with others and the fun of playing as a group

I enjoy working on getting the coins ALOT and I think we can agree that the rewards are some of the best ever. If we stop and think about it for a moment and look just at the PvE quests and consider the following:

You would get:

Do the Mission with Bonus in Hard Mode
- A Reward for Completing the Mission.
- A Reward for Completing the Bonus.
- A Completion for your NM or HM title track.
- A Page completed in your Campaign Book HM or NM leading to a Complet Book reward (After completion).
- A Reward for the Zaishen Mission.
- A Reward for for Zaishen Mission Bonus.
- Possibly some Eye of the North faction from completing a Mission.

Do the Bounty in Hard Mode
- The change to Capture an Elite Skill.
- Increasing your Elite Skill Hunter title.
- A Reward for the Zaishen Bounty.
- A Reward for the Zaishen Bounty Bounty.
- Possibly some extra Reputation for Eye of the North from killing the boss.
- Possibly Increase your "of the North" Title for Eye of the North from Completing Dungeons by killing the End Boss from Bounties.

So if you think about it, this may have been intentional or not, but the Zaishen Quests are a fun way to not only get Equipment packs or such, but to invite them to gradually complete their Title tracks and to join other real people while doing it! It is quite ingenious.

What I would recommend to everyone would be to carry the following on you while doing the Quests.

Preperations:
- Prophecies Book [NM] or [HM]
- Factions Book [NM] or [HM]
- Nightfall Book [NM] or [HM]
- Eye of the North - Hero's Handbook [NM] or [HM]
- Eye of the North - Dungeon Guide [NM] or [HM]
- 1 Skill Cap
- Charm Animal (If you wish to fill your Menagerie)
- Summoning Stones (From Nicolas the Traveler if you like)
- Rock Candy, they are better then Crack (From Nicolas the Traverler, if you like)

I know these things require alot of Inventory space so I also recommend a Small Equipment Pack to start off. Having these items on you will at least Tripple your Earned Rewards in the long run

But when it comes to Time and Effort vs Coins, Pick and chose those that have the best rewards for the least amount of time or effort as some take longer and offer smaller rewards. Then repeate them accross as many characters as you can during the day or time you plan to investé.

Only six pages for a good, constructive post? This must be a record for these forums.

RESTECP

Yes, I'm serious. Get yourself a new pair of glasses and re-read my post. Notice the careful use of the word "seems", which I specifically used to indicate that I am not making a statement of fact, but giving my own conclusion based on the large number of people I see complaining on guru.

They are NOT "out of the reach" for ANYONE, never mind "most of its player base".

Everyone can buy 5 slots - anyone who really can't afford a 5 slot pack has more pressing things to deal with, and is unlikely to have anything to put in an equipment bag anyway.

Everyone can get bigger packs - it only takes time, and the inclination to do some quests.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no "problem". The only problem I see, is for people who want packs bigger than 5 slots, want them NOW, and/or want them for free (don't want to have to do anything to get them). Which I consider unreasonable.

Also even at my slow pace, it won't be anything like 3 months before I have bigger equipment packs.

I agree with Hissy on this, it's possible for everyone to get a 20 slot bag in time. Surely you will have to do a lot of zaishen quests as a pve player, but then again, what else is there to do in pve but doing missions and killing bosses. I don't really understand that everyone is in a very big hurry to get one, everyone has used less character storage for years.

I am saying this to avoid getting called a hypocrite: I got a heavy equipment pack really fast by doing the PvP quests, but I did not experience this as grind and I didn't really do anything that I would not normally do. I am selling the pack because I know I will get another one in time anyway and I can make a lot of money selling it right now.

such biased conclusion is worth nothing


We're not talking about 5 slots packs, there's no problem with them.

Thinking you'll get heavy packs by doing "some" quests is totally wrong... Anyway, see you in three months.

They ought to include 5 silver zaishen coins as a reward for opening Gifts of the Traveler. Or hell, even include Light Equipment Packs in the Gifts of the Traveler.

You don't have a heavy equipment pack. Even if you've done every single PvE and PvP quest that has been offered from the time it started until now, you'd still only have 2505 coppers per character. It takes 7500 coppers for a heavy bag. Since you can't trade the coins and you can't put them in storage, you don't have a heavy bag.

What some of you don't understand is that there are a lot of vets that already played several times through all the content, nm and hm. What we still do or do not play in this game is our business.

Would have accumulated at least 10 heavy equipment bags by now if I look at 4 years of gw play time.

I would even go that far as to say I deserve the freaking heavy equipment pack right here and right now and I got the titles to proove it (not that they mean anything else). If you have legendary vanquisher, legendary guardian and master of the north and all eternal statues of the elite areas in the HoM, then you might understand what I'm saying. And I don't say this to brag, but out of disgust.

Aww. Got no counter arguments to the things I've said? So you're reduced to sad response like that?

Of course I'm biased. Just like you are. Anybody who gives their opinion or point of view, is expressing their personal bias. So what?

I don't "think" that, I know it.

I do quests, I get coins.
I skip quests I don't want to do.
But even so, eventually I have enough coins for a heavy pack.

How is this "wrong"?

"3 months" LOL. Is that supposed to be an insult? I'll probably have a 15-slot in a week or two. If I think I need 20 slots, maybe it'll take 3 months, maybe it won't. Either way, what does it matter? What's the hurry?

Read one of his earlier posts.
He did almost exclusively the PvP quests, on quite a few chars (7-9 different chars iirc) to get the rewards for the heavy bag. The PvP quests give better rewards.
Also, the update was done to put the coins in storage, so that problem isn't there anymore.

He might not call this grind, but If I have to do the same quest every day across so many characters, it is grind.

I agree with Gun Pierson. I bloody deserve the freaking heavy bags.

Um, I really have to ask, what quality of work was put into the Zaishen Quests? The only new things added with the quests, other than the coins themselves, were the bags, everlasting fireworks, zaishen tonic, and zaishen summoning stone.

All other rewards were already in the game and the quests themselves are simply missions, bosses and activities that were already there.

Basically, it's a gimmick to get people to do what they have already done.

Dzjudz just trying to figure out how often you did each thing.

Lets see, Update came out on at 8:40 PM EST on the 23rd of April and you posted this at 7:40 AM (ish) EST 30th of April, So in about 6 1/2 days you have earned 3000 copper coins. (6x10x50=3000)

HB and RA gave a total of 280 coins that leaves 2720 coins (3000-280)
Each Mission for each day gave 510 coins this leaves 2210 left (2720-510)
Each bounty for each day gave you 560 coins leaving 1650 coins. (2210-560)
Do each PvE(mission and bounty) again leaves 580 coins. (1650-1070)
Do each bounty again leaves 20 coins (580-560)

So basically each mission twice and each bounty 3 times a day. May be a bit less do th HB and RA (but not too much)

Apply this to the Large Equipment Pack 5 gold zoins x 8 characters
5 coins or so earned every 5 days...1 month and 10 days to get the coins.
Each mission twice daily for 40 days (total 80 missions)
Each bounty 3 times daily for 40 days (total 120 bounties)

This is only if each bonus each time was obtained. Of course any missed bonus increases these numbers.

I just wanted to break this down for people. IMHO this Looks like a duck, smells like a duck must be a duck..... Looks like grind.....

Got quest reward information from here:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zaishen_Quests

Lets break this one down also:

PVP only: 7500 coins for a Heavy Pack:

Total for the 6 days doing each PVP once is 1435 coins

7500 divided by 1435 is 5.22. Effectively you completed 6 days worth PVP quests 5 times over and you did not experience any grind? Impressive.

Now this is a little harder to lock down since you did not give any detailed information about which battles you did more that others.




QFT /signed /agree /f@%$ yea

Add in any time you helped a guildie with a mission or obtain a skill on top of that too.

What was so easy was the HA Quest. My guild and me went in, got reward, deleted character, make a new one , and that x30.

A fix to this is: Only if your character exists for longer than 1 week (or even 2 days), you can accept a Zaishen Quest.

Opinions?

Some people reserve one of their character slots for a PvP character, and they re-roll it every time they play it, according to what type of PvP they're going to do, what they feel like playing that day, what their team needs, or changes to meta. I think it would be unfair to those people.

Also, is that kind of behaviour really a big problem? They have to endure The Evil of Grind to get their increased rewards. Is that any worse than people who farm items, materials, points, whatever... repeating the same routine again and again to multiply their rewards?

I suspect a lot of people would even encourage it, since it may mean a steady supply of heavy equipment bags for people who'd rather trade for them than collect coins.