Hundreds of hours for a few equipment pack slots?!?

Well, how about this: you can only accept the zquest once times amount of character slots per day. If you want to use up all of them on a rerolling a PVP char, you could. But you couldn't do it 30 times which is completely unfair to a lot of other people who are going to be grinding at a much slower rate.

Not a problem at all. If that is what people want to do cool more power to them. There really is no WRONG way to play GW. The "Do what you want" mentatlity is what makes GW cool.

However for people to say this is not recycled content that people can complete yet again (grind) is wrong.

People were hungry for NEW Content and this does not fit the bill. The once tiny bit of NEW content is Nicholas and he seems to be the most popular and well received addition.

This is the equivalant of the books/guides but just in quest form.

Or to encourage them want to go back and complete Mission and Bonus on some areas in Normal Mode they just ran through to get further or even encourage them to venture into Hard Mode

Yes, it is a bit expensive to get the new packs. On the other hand, my guildmates and I have been getting together to do some the quests/missions in HM, and at the same time working on titles and filling a chapter or two in books. Sometimes we bring along a pug with us. So in that respect I think the high price is a success for the game itself. That is, it gets players playing together again and brings something fresh to the game which it desperately needed. We will see what the long term impact this has on GW and if the new updates can stall its slow death.

meh... I was getting along fine before this was introduced, so the 5 slot bag is all the more ill need for a while.

when heavy bags come down in price, ill buy some then and skip the grind.

Zodiak pretty much hit all my points, but i have one to make.

All games are grind whether you mow down aliens in Halo, hack and slash in diablo. You continually do the same thing in different manner some time with variation, You grid out senselesS (but fun) carnage on creatures to level, complete story whatever. It is always there just hidden. Use the content to help you get your goals.

I've said it before and I will again Appreciate the work people did on the content or &*%^%^$ do it your self if you think you are so smart or better then people that have been working on GW for 4 years and knows the restrictions they have with Super finite resources.

Oh so acomplishes mean something? I got all the elite area statues except the deep and 26 titles and been playing about 2 years, so what should I demand they give me, bah. I started title hunting around the time GWEN came out, the first year I just enjoyed the chapters and story. Or since you are old you think you deserve something, that is just silly IF you were paying a subscription them maybe I'd see your point, but I don't.

Stop crying "I am entitled." no one is entitled to anything except a chance to live......but even some don't deserve that. (Not anyone on this forum, I mean some criminals.)

Pretty good, but you didn't factor in the difficulty of the quests. Molotov was too easy, did it on several chars. Raisu Palace and Consulate Docks were easy as well, did Consulate Docks on 8 chars. Some other missions and bounties were pretty doable in fast times as well, so I was able to complete those on multiple chars in reasonable times.

Now, let's say you're going for a 15 slot bag. You can get this in around a month on a character. However, if you want it on several characters, you will have to do more work, since bags are character based. Sounds fair to me. You can call it grind, but it's the same for most things in GW, they are character based. If you want an endgame item on each character, you have to complete the chapters on each character. (You can also buy endgame weapons from other players, but the same applies to equipment bags).
I really like this idea!

i suspect that they made the heavy equipment packs take so long to get so that people get sick of doing the quests and just buy the storage tabs

I fail to see why doing a mission for the 6th time in GW is 'fun' when your reward is a common 20 slot pack that was made rare on purpose to recycle content and keep us playing.

Yes I appreciate the work of the people who worked on it in their own free time too, respect guys! I hope Anet does something for them as Anet rakes in the money which I understand as they're a business. It's their job though, they chose to go for an mmo with as less grind as possible. It's only normal that a part of the playerbase would dislike an implementation like this. Especially with storage, a most wanted feature. We learned to deal with it, but now that it's here, let all enjoy it.


Yes it means I alrdy did it so I'll take the large pack now tx. I wish every player could get the packs one way or the other though without investing the grind, not only the players with the titles.

Put some new zaishen armor and zaishen elite armor in there as a reward instead, but not a feature like equipment packs. I know, they don't have the recources.

The real problem is that there are no decent rewards except for the packs (which don't belong there) and the everlasting crates of firework. All the rest in there is also too expensive atm. They can hold a new weapon contest and kill two birds with one stone. I know, they don't have the recources.

More rewards can be added later.

My complaint:

I have too much storage now.

That is a complaint?

I am having fun getting my coins, therefore I am happy. It gives me a reason to go back, or make the effort for a first time, and I enjoy it. gg

I don't understand why everyone is calling this grind. You do a different mission every day. You kill a different boss every day. You do a different form of PvP every day. The only way it's grind is if you make it that way by doing every quest 5 times a day.

You get a free storage panel. You can buy a 5 slot bag. You survived before, you can survive with an extra 25 slots for a bit. Stop expecting everything in the game to be handed to you on a shiny silver platter.

Is it a Grind? Technically yes, as I'm doing things I've done before but hey, I've been playing so long I've done everything before.

That said, I'm going back to areas I haven't been in ages and PUGging again, which I always enjoyed because you never know when someone is about to do something really unexpected (eg Dumb!) WTF?!? moments are priceless in a game where everyone is getting so jaded.

Also, its kinda fun going into RA as a Touch ranger being told I'm lame by whoever it is I just killed. I know which builds work and which don't, but that doesn't mean you do

Enjoying it - yes. Grinding for bags - no. Extra free storage full yet across my accounts - no. Maybe later.

Technically, the ZCQ are not grind. Since it changes every day, at least you get something different. True grind is most of the title grinding that you have to do in this game. In those, you just do the same thing, often hundreds (if not thousands) of times in a row to accomplish something. Even if you ignore that, in my opinion, getting 7500 Zaishen coins is absolutely nothing compared to the stupid amount of grind that it takes to max out Treasure Hunter or Kurzick/Luxon titles.

Besides, I don't understand what everybody is so angry about it. Every day that Guild Wars is out is a day that thousands of players get closer to getting enough coins for a Heavy Equipment Pack. Each time somebody gets one, that's a character that will never buy it again. Unlike Elite Armor, it's not like you'll ever need two Heavy Equipment Packs on a single character. The question is if anybody is going to be crazy enough to want to keep grinding out enough coins to keep shoving Heavy Equipment Packs for every character in their entire account. My guess: Heck no.

I'd say that within a few weeks, somebody is going to start turning the Zaishen coins into the latest money-making scheme. Somebody is going to put a Heavy Equipment Pack in High-End Auction. It will trade for an insane number of ectos and platinum, and probably several people will fight over it. Then it'll happen with increasing frequency until everybody gets one and the bottom falls out of the market.

In short, I think that this is just Guild Wars's way of keeping players interested for half a year before players become bored with the content again. Once the power-traders realize that they can sell the packs for an insane profit, nobody will do ZCQ anymore as you can just buy the loot you want, and anybody that does them is just trying to sell the items for a profit.

Ya, the biggest pack is a little expensive. Myself...I only got the 10 slot one. Works perfect for me and doesn't take that many coins. Just nice they added some more content and the Z-stuff is fine with me. It's nice seeing places full of peeps and pugs starting up.

When I first saw the new update i thought: "i'd like to see people complain about grind now" But here I am now, and I see posts on grinding? You have three new quests per day, nobodys forcing you to do all of them. I also find it a bit odd that people who preach that they aren't hardcore have such a sudden, and large need for more storage space, what could they be trying to store away? Surely not their 15k armor and tormented weapons that they definetly didn't spend hours and hours farming/merchanting for.

Be happy you now have a non-grind system that causes you to revisit old places you probably haven't been to in a year. Replaying isn't grinding, but repetively over and over again replaying is, and this, is not grinding. This system will be broken though, if there wasn't some kind of incentive and I hope that the equipment pack remains 15 gold coins so that in a couple months people don't get all they need and just quit doing the zquests. Because this has really brought the community together, you've got 4-5 districts of 'real' people. I even set up a barragepet team to get through some missions, something I hadn't been able to do for so long.

You can put coins in storage now and don't overlook rerolling PvP chars.

You know that this is pervert.

People shall grind what you do not call grind to get a bag. Once they have it, they no longer really need it, as they quit, they are finally done getting the bag?


This is awesome logic.

I could use the bag right now.
If the only incentive to do old content is that I get a bag in the end... well, you know it is not the "old content" that people are interested in.



This reminds me of my friend Steve in WoW. He is playing it all day and night for years by now.

"Daily Quests give me something to do"


I usually suggest to do something else, if the game is not longer exciting... this is a sign of addiction.

I do not mean doing something else in a game that people are actually fed up with... they should at least get the idea to do something else. This idea to keep people "occupied" by handing out special items, or well, bags... that take a looong time to get is something I could understand in a subscription based game, and even there it would not be because they are customer friendly.

GW was supposed to be grind free, but nowadays what people are doing is nothing else. It is of course optional, as people are always quick to say.


Grind rewards you with more storage. "Casual" players or those who just do not want to grind for a damn bag and do every day what some NPC tells them to do must make do with 5 slot bags.

This is not like some shiny sword or 15k armor, storage is not vanity, especially not in a game that adds more and more summoning stones for this, that, this or that consumable and more and more collectible items. This is their idea of "content", as they do not seem to have the resources or will to add anything major anymore.

whether or not it's grind really depends on the memory of the person playing. people with good memories will be able to recognize larger portions of events that have already occurred and claim 'this is repetition/grinding'. others will not recognize anything and say 'a new quest every day! no grind!'. unfortunately, this is penalizing people with good memories. telling mathematicians, chemists, physicists that they will receive a handicap for their pattern recognition seems a little unjust. the kid who enjoys sticking a fork in an electrical socket every day will undoubtedly grow up to be resilient, i'm sure. but it seems like the light socket kid won't be the one finding the higgs boson or solving np hard problems. but, in his defense, he will have a heavy equipment bag.

claiming that people don't need the space anyways is a conceptual error concerning causation and correlation. saying people don't have weapons and therefore don't need space for weapons is non sequitur. if we HAD the room for them, we'd have 20 sets easily. weapons. . . and armor. a monk should have the healing set of armor +low +high +40/40. it's not unreasonable to have that same monk with a 55 + grim + weap, then maybe a 600 set + weap. of course, most high level monks have a defensive set, i've heard, with a spear/shield. this is barring any aesthetics. warriors can have an arbitrarily high amount of weapons. different damage sets, damage types, adrenaline based builds, energy based builds, +mastery in 3 different weapon types, a sentinels vs a vigor etc. they are the cheapest 1k we can afford, with styles that are ugly because that's all we had the mats for.

there is grind, of course. with the advent of pve skills, honing the effectiveness of certain key skills becomes indispensable. that is not to say 'there is already grind get over it'. it's like saying 'he already robbed the store, may as well kill the people in it'. we shouldn't have to tolerate more elements that oppose what gw was allegedly - no grind. suppose we're supposed to grind. . . then why the nerf to what is considered the grind skill of all time, shadowform? if you want us to grind, at least give that back so we can. if we complain about either, those defending their e-pen will start filling the threads with 'qq' until it's discredited. if that doesn't work, the '/uninstalls' usually follow. on second thought, maybe it is time to find a new game.

GvG quest x9 = 3150
TA quest x8 = 1400
AB quest x6 = 1050
HA quest x5 = 1750
HB quest x5 (did this without AT matches) = 625
RA quest once = 105
Some PvE Quests = Around 300 I think

I am pretty sure that is exactly how I did the quests.. Note that it is more than 7500 because I accidentaly gave in the wrong quests a few times, and I didnt do the AT match in all GvG quests.

I can tell you why I dont feel this is grind: I always play PvP, so playing all these formats is normal to me. The only thing I would not normally do is change character after a few wins, but playing different characters is not really grind to me.

That's a really short sighted response. I think a lot of the people still playing guild wars are always playing the same content (being PvE or PvP), since nothing new has been added for a long time. However, playing it in different ways (with different characters for PvE, different builds / opponents for PvP) makes the experience different. That has nothing to do with having good memory...

Keep whining and they will delete the option to get 20-slot equipment pack in the game and they will introduce it for 14.99$ instead.

I'm sorry?

I don't think it has anything to do with memory. If you're going to do the same quest on the same character, yes you will find it grind. Even if you do know the area (I must have done Ring of Fire about a gazillion times for various reasons, including helping friends and for the heck of it) you may find the experience different if you're playing on a different character.

Today I took my necro into HM for the first time, playing Divinity Coast - and I've already played it many times before, but doing it this time round was different from playing it on my monk or my ele.

The skill over time spent ideology does not apply to item storage, only to character power.

Besides, you don't need to spend that much time. I've spent only a couple of hours and I've already got 1 gold coin.

I fail to see why you should rant on something you should never care about since you got bored with the content ages ago.
This isn't about storage, it's about lack of new content. An ongoing mantra.

Please Gun, you are not the only player with LC, LG and other titles.
Not everyone got bored with the game, I know many who got bored (most of my old-time friends) and many who are still playing.

I really don't care if the storage pack is 20, 30, 40, 50 or 100 gold zoins.
It enables me to do some stuff with others, guildies, friends or random players. I will get that storage pack someday, doesn't have to be today or this week since I managed without for over 3 years.

Did I get bored of the game and content? Up to a certain point I did indeed. I'm still thinking about a switch to PvP though a shoulder injury prevents me from very active play at the moment.
But I didn't get bored of playing with guildies or friends. Or even randoms. It's still fun to do even when I've seen the mission for dunno how many times.

Perhaps you should just quit (if you didn't do that yet) and wait for GW2 to appear.

This is PVE.
You could also say Hundreds of hours for a suit of armour. And the armor doesnt even have better stats than the regular one.
Please stop whining for an easy button in guild wars.

That was thrown out the window when EotN was released.

Again, it's not grind. Doing different quests each day is not grind. Casual players can easily get the 20 slot bag, all they have to do is a mission and a bounty (and some PvP if they enjoy it) to get the bag. Sure, it takes time, but time != grind. Apparently patience is a word that most of you don't understand. The more free/easy things thrown at you, the less there is to do in the game, the faster you're going to get bored. What ANet did was good, but the playerbase is too damn lazy, and expect everything to be handed to them.

Did you ever notice that your Guru classification (presearing cadet, academy page, etc.) is a function of how many posts you've made? In order to get to an impressive title, you need to grind out thousands of posts. Mindlessly typing words over and over and over again, recycling the same tired arguments repeatedly will eventually net you a title like "Forge Runner" making you the envy of friends and enemies alike.

The scheming fiends at Guru have even created a way to profit from your desire for a title. In exchange for real money, they will let you create your own impressive title. Those bastards know how desirable a title is. Sure, they need to save money to develop Guild Wars 2 Guru and run their web servers, but they are taking advantage of all poster's desire to get an impressive title quickly. For the rest of us, the only alternative is to grind and grind posts.

When I see a person who has posted dozens and dozens of posts over a few days, I know what it is. It looks, smells and sounds like a duck. It's grind! No one could possibly enjoy posting on the same topic over and over again.

I hope people with a moral objection to grind will wake up to the pointless treadmill they are on! If you hate grind like me, stop posting immediately! Don't give those who run Guru the satisfaction.

I'm not bored with the game, yet I loathe the way the larger packs are dealt with. Because, if I want to buy one with coins, I have to spend much of my online time doing missions and bounties I might not want to do at that point. I still have my own things going on, despite having played for almost 4 years. I don't need hand-holding and by-the-nose-leading to make the game artificially interesting for me. When I log on, I don't want someone telling me what random thing to do next. I log on to do what I want to do, what interests me at the time. Right now, that's playing my mesmer through Eye of the North. After that, it'll be Factions and Prophecies. I don't want to spend my time doing random bits of content for no particular reason other than to score a measly amount of Z-coins so I can buy a bag. Especially if it's something I'll have to do dozens of times. That's not how I want to spend my rather limited playing time.

I don't see 'enabling', I see people being 'forced' into doing something for no other reason than a reward they can't get in any other way. Playing with guildies is something I've always done anyway, and ironically, I'm not anymore. Because I'm playing my mesmer while they're dancing to the Zaishen tune. No one talks about anything else than the zaishen quests anymore in guild chat. Disgusting.

I'm not bored with the game. So I guess these Zaishen quests where an update to reinvigorate bored players? I hope the bored players enjoy their packs. I wonder what the next update will bring to relieve their boredom. Maybe it'll be something I can enjoy too, but I'm guessing it'll be just more useless stuff to fill up more bags and storage panes.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great they made something for bored players. It's just a damn shame they tied the acquisition of equipment packs into it the way they did. It completely precludes normal play.



Grind or no grind, I don't care. What if a player just wants to play through the game, which is the most basically casual thing to do? Playing different quests and missions all the way, but no bag for you!

Perhaps you're right.

@Hallomik: That's cheap what you write there, I don't give a dam about the post counts on guru, they can remove it from under my avatar. I'm here to debate about game design etc. This happens on a game forum.

What do you think I have been doing in GW last 4 years dude? The packs should not be linked to zoins though.

PvP'rs smell an opportunity ofcourse and I don't blame them.

U can always quit GW. I can't see any problem in it. This game is about achieving sth not getting it for free. QQ FTW, bro.

I wonder since when did having storage for junk become achievement whose dificulty and manitude needs to be defended by elite anti-QQ squad. But even their defence does not remove few facts:

1) Rewards are poorly structured. Its is basically 20 slot pack or nothing (well, or you wasted 1 or 5 hard to get gold zoins. You do not do that if it took you several days to get one). Which is of course out of time/gratification curve for most people.

If people could get 10 slot pack and upgrade them later, we would not see this thread, because people would get cheapie and good start on long grind with another milestone not far. That is how leveling is structured and how it manages to function. It is not max level or nothing. Packs are. Hell, 20 slot bag every 3-4 days would keep me busy for months since it would change its value from main-char-only (2 months? not gonna bother - i am not) to all-mules-get-one (2 months for all? Can do it.). I would settle for 10 slot packs if they could be upgraded later and buying em would not mean wasting zoins (*twitch* OCD), I am condifent lot of people would feel same.

Not to mention that every other reward is gotten easier and faster by solo farming. If Zoins were good way to max 10k point titles easy to get packs would not be issue either (or would they?) because people would have more than one reason to do zquests.

2) Long road. If your only reason to log in to game is to get 20 pack, well, too bad. By time you get your coveted 20 pack, you are done with game and/or seriously burned out. Its just kind of undeath.

3) Forcing people to play with people, hmm... I did enjoy first few quest barrages, but it gets tiring soon.

I ended up just forgeting bags and doing Zquests if there is another reason to do them (like lacking bonus or mission done on secondary character, zquest giving reputation points, needing hm mission on main, needing vq area with boss on main ... etc.). Since that is usually in NM, and zquesters want HM, too bad, I am not going to be in your party. I am sure you do not miss me, but still.

Bags are too far away to serve as "lets do some pve NOW!" magnet.

4) Poor expectation management.

Frankly, people expected their storage issues "solved" in speedy manner after update.

30 stacks of copper zoins were quite harsh wake up call that hit like 10 ton anvil.

Not exactly smart.

---

All in all:

QQ, WTB: rune of major holding, 4 zoins and rune of superior holding, 10 zoins.

What is it that makes people unable to see a middle ground? When players complain that something is too expensive or too much work, people assume we want it "free." Did the world suddenly become black and white and lose all shades of gray or color? Or did the word "reasonable" lose its meaning?

We want to put in an reasonable amount of work - not an excessive amount or free.

Little story here. When Hard Mode came out about two years ago I was a relatively new member of my current guild.
Many of them started to work on their HM titles but I wanted to do other stuff. Oh, and my main is my mesmer and it was kinda hard to get him into the elite areas for some unknown reason. Still don't understand why... :P

Anyway, even though I did not finish my titles and elite areas as fast as some guildies I did progress on them. I also have limited play time, I have a full-time job and something that almost looks like a social life. And even when I'm playing I won't always do what I want. I just tag along with others or chat with people concerning the direction of the guild or the alliance.
This means I won't get the large pack for a while, which is even less fun since I want it for two characters (mesmer and monk).
But it's the same as with my titles, it will take me a while but I will get them.


My guild has a small core group of active players.
When we feel like it we tag along for those quests, else we just arrange something else. Because most of my guildies have the same kind of mindset, they will get their stuff at some point, doesn't have to be today.
At this moment many people are on the zaishen frenzy. Things will settle down at some point. Then it's just more of the same and teaming will be easier again. But perhaps my luck is that many of my guildies are adults, the son of two of my officers is also with us and all he seems to think of is zoins and piles of gold.

You know how many times I complained about A-net not doing enough to facilitate regular gameplay? From that perspective heroes were a godsend blessing just because it was easy to set up a decent team with only two players. No more problem with empty outposts like it was before NF. No more searching for players in main towns to do some mission like Eternal or Gyala, because the storyline divided the population.

Or, how about me wanting some nice green weapon ages ago.
Oh, don't think it has a reasonable price (100k+ easily). If you want it just farm it or farm the cash. That's not what I made up, it was the communities reaction. But I want to play the storyline??? Well, sorry, no green for you then!

Things didn't change, making choices enables one option and disables another.
You want to play things your way? No problem, the price is that it will take a while for you to get the super-bag.

However, just like the greens there is a nice thing here.
While you play you get more cash. And while you play more and more people are getting their bags. They will be on the market in a couple of weeks.
First they will be expensive but in time prices will drop. Question, are you willing to wait or is having one NOW, this moment, the most important thing there is?

@Gun,
I partly agree with you that the pack should not be linked to zoins.
When it would be restricted to customised equipment I would not have any problem with it being completely free.
However, the way it's now, it's just additional storage. And then it's just a trade-off in time/money versus value. How much effort are 5 extra equipment slots worth?

What I'd like to see though is something others already proposed. A way to upgrade a pack to a better one. Even if it's with zoins. So when you have the 15 pack and want the 20 you just pay the difference (and perhaps a small 'penalty' for usage). That way getting a smaller one isn't a waste of zoins. Now it seems just all or nothing and that's not really helping.

But don't tie this to achievement. I've done my share of play and got my statues, titles and stuff and I know it's all vanity.
All those things in inventory, all the armor on my characters, the characters themself. Pixels on the screen, bits in a huge database. Nothing more.
The only reason those have some value is because I have some nice memories attached to them. But it's like a medal, it only has value because of the memories, not because of the value of the metal.

PvP-only characters have the right to get the bags too. And ZCoins should be that one way.
They get more coins in the only missions they can make for something!

So all that's left is:

- Change the separate bags into upgradable bags. Each bag would be acquired by adding a rune to the one that 5 slots smaller, and by doing so they become the actual bag. So already existing items and their icons are kept.
* 5 slots -> Minor Containment Rune -> 10 slots.
* 10 slots -> Containment Rune -> 15 slots.
* 15 slots -> Mayor Containment Rune -> 20 slots.

- Add alternate ways for PvE characters to get them such as:
* Drops from chests in HM. The harder to get the to the chest, the bigger may be the bag. Heavy bags would drop only in Elite areas end-chests.
* Drops from bosses in HM. Likewise, Heavy bags would drop only from elite bosses in HM, and those would likely have chests instead drops, so they won't actually drop them.
* End-credits collectors. At least the 10-slot bag for 2 or 3 trophies.
* Allegiance collectors (Quest reward trophies). At least the 5-slot bag in the 5 trophies collector, or even a new one in a 10-trophy collector.
* Crafting with rare materials and gold.
Etc.

Ask around to buy a Heavy Equip Pack. Though I doubt you'll find any sellers.

the small equipment pack is Customized to characters. I don't know if the others are too.



But this getting a zpack is getting old fast doing quests. if people do quests everyday on one character it'll take months just to get one 20 pack. And if u do it on all characters it becomes grind. I hate the eotn PvE quests for pve skills but zquests are geting even worse. Zquest pay off is terrible especially pve rewards.

if your like me and have 10 pve characters pvp rdy you have limited storage as it is so zpacks are great but getting them is just horrid. I was pretty much done with pve mission from boardom now i have to do some for several months just to get zpacks. Extra balth faction is the only good thing about the rewards. i already limited myself to 15 minute or less quests anything over is a waste of time.

I sold one today and will sell another one in a week or so. Dont think there are many people who can get them that fast though (I am doing the PvP quests)...

Small correction. The small packs are not customized to the person buying them...at least the ones you pay 2p 500g for. I just logged in a character and emptied the pack, put it in storage, and put it on another character just fine.

Wow... so if you don't mind my asking, what kind of price? That is, if it can fit in the post buffer size, lol.