Confirmation that the Live Team is going after SF this year

I have no problem with SF being nuked as long as they nuke the other farming builds. Run Ooze 8k ea....HM, ect that is an issue for all the GWEN dungeons. SF might be an issue for solo farming but the other builds also cause issues cause no one is playing they are being run. And yes I have a SF Sin so don't say I'm a hater, I just think they should be an equal opportunity Nerfer.

the 600 was already hit once in the past when spirit bond was changed to 10 incoming attacks. in the original form it was 8 seconds unlimited attacks.

These are the people who will be hurt by SF nerf:
1) new players who will now have a huge grind and never get "rich"
2) people trying to max treasure hunter/lucky/unlucky either by running chests or buying unids 7=4k
3) traders/power-resellers (because who do you think is buying your stuff? no more easy ectos means demand plummets for items and your business is dead)
4) runners and people who need their characters run to reduce the grind of gw
5) farmers of feathers, dust, iron, gold unids and the various sellers of those con sets
6) shortsighted ANET trying to get people to "start fresh in GW2" (see my thoughts in bold face in paragraph 2 below)

For goodness sakes, let GW1 die out on a happy note and let the customers have fun. SF is fine now in my opinion, it is the elite areas that are old and have never been updated to deal with the new and powerful spells they gave us. 15 minutes for uw makes me sick to be honest and I refuse to participate and that rapage. However, I feel bad for all the new players to the game and I am not going to begrudge other people of their fun. Let everyone get rich. I have mine, and what do I care if others get rich too? It doesnt hurt me, and if fact, it helps me if everyone gets rich. Most of the people who complain about SF are rich already and just do not like seeing others making ectos too, or they are poor and just do not want to participate. The rich guys are shortsighted in my opinion. Being rich means you probably have nice toys. I know I do. One day you want to sell your items, and if you keep everyone else poor, you will not have anyone to buy them. Resellers should be making ectos hand over fist right now and should be the biggest QQ'ers here, and yet as I look at the list of people posting here who are excited about a nerf, I see many rich/semi rich traders which is completely the opposite of what they should be thinking. People do not think of the consequences sometimes.

If anet is smart, which I DOUBT, they will want everyone to get rich in GW1. Then they will reward GW1 players big time for these toys we have collected: favorite weapons, minis, etc... by letting us bring stuff into GW2 to show off our personal level of achievements in wealth. If they give us all some generic b.s. thing that is as common as dirt like a fungal wallow or a stupid monument that no one will ever see except yourself and your mother then GW1 was all for nothing and GW2 has zero appeal as it will have no purpose. (Seriously, have you ever gone into someone else's Hall of Monuments? I never have, nor has anyone wanted to come see mine. HOM is cool, but totally useless for bragging which is what RPG's are all about: vanity.) Aion, WoW, Diablo3 will have more appeal at that point because if you have to start fresh, why not start with another game that has better/newer/cooler features? If people are not PERSONALLY tied into GW2 from their GW1 wealth, not GENERICALLY tied, then there is nothing to prevent them from starting fresh with WoW, Aion, Diablo3, etc. And I predict that this shortsightedness will be the GW downfall. They should leave SF, let everyone get rich, and think very carefully about what I have just said about tying personal wealth to GW2 loyalty. Mark my words and take notes, because that is my observations and conclusions about what drives a hard core GW player (vanity) and what will tie that core player into GW2, not push him/her into another game to "start fresh".

Ectos are stable in this 4-4.3k range for a long time now. Everyone is happy and feeling good when looking at their storage with ectos. I see no problem. SF reduces grind and helps so many people in the game from new players, title hunters, resellers, farmers, con set sellers. Buff UW for real this time because 15 minutes... too fast for even my liking. But dont take the last enjoyment people have from this game with these stupid nerfs and piss off your customers just before GW2. Aion is going to kill off a huge segement of people. School is starting up and half the speedclearers are going to be leaving anyways. The economy as measured by the price of ectos is pretty stable in the low 4k range which to me is good. Dont let GW1 die a place of grind and bitter memories.

I am pretty much out of the trading business so I dont care. I have my sin and I love SF for running around characters chasing after nicholas zones. I have never done a speed clear and I never will. I use my SF sin for one purpose only, to grind out that stupid unlucky title by breaking lockpicks. I hate grind and SF is a tiny bit of relief from that title in the area I prefer to run chests trying to find one of the last 2 or 3 items I want in the game before I take my virtual crap with me and disappear just the same way I came into this game: naked.... but with a few more titles, some nice toys, and a few (and I am starting to think FEW) good memories.

change the entire functionality of the skill. It's stupid as it is and shouldn't exist in the game in any incarnation of its current form.

As a sin that has farmed with Shadow form and all i've gotta say,,, awesome. I just want some new attacks as a sin, I mean in HM death blossom and moebius is fun, but gets redundant. But anyway, I foresee a lot of noob 600's running around after, and I will need to buy a bomb shelter for the day it's nerfed, GL to the rest of you when it happens, you'll need it.

1. GW1 Wealth will not be transferred to GW2, as it would be unfair for those who did not play GW1. GW2 is a new game, not an extension of this one.
2. If everyone was "rich," then nobody is. While wealth is definitive, "rich" and "poor" are relative.
3. "Poor" players can have items as effective as "rich" players do. Wealth in GW1 is entirely cosmetic.
4. Most people that complain about SF complain not because others are horning in their "wealth," but because SF so completely dominates every facet of the game to the point of exclusion of other builds.
5. Calm down.

I think it's too late, frankly. The greatest harm caused by invincible farming builds is the expectation/perception that semi-invincibility is a normal and okay part of the game. And really, it's just a small part of an overall picture that includes PvE skills and consumables. Once people get used to hitting IDDQD and IDKFA in every game, it's far too late to try and backpedal.

Im doing all these and im happy bout SF nerf..
I did Chest running just fine before SF. and done 90% Chets running without SF.
I've never done uwsc orso for ectos. Actually since release ive had 7-8 ecto drops. and done UW Countless of times.
And Running can be done just fine with warriors & Rangers..

And i havent rly done Sc myself neather. because imo its not fun finishing uw in 15min. its not ELITE AREA when you do it in 15min. i remember enjoying way more in 2006. when it took atleast 10HOURS to finish.. But yeah ive allways been preferring balanced. Because Fun>Time&money. Whats the point playing if you dont have fun? Sure. with money you get nice items and stuff. But. Do you really need it? and. Do you really Need to save those few extra minutes. for having Much more fun doing someting else.? Thats my 2cents.

Agreed with pleikki.

SF farming a boss for agreen fine but teams farming elite areas is easily noticable by anyone that its just plain wrong.

IDK what areas your needing SF to chest run for the title. Most title chest runners do the fast areas witman folly, fronis, boreal station, boreas seabed, mirror lyss.

I swear its like no one remembers b4 SF was maintainable.

SF as a basic skill its stupid. Its a zero sum game - or its invincibility for infinite time, or not, and then you die and no one uses SF. They should change the skill to a completely new mechanism, along with some more of those skills that are clearly not balanced, either too weak or too strong. and buff some of the monsters, and not in the stupid way of +30 levels and 33% speed boost... If they'd add some normal skill bars to them it'd rock.

Not if it was a "cosmetic" transfer such as getting back your favorite weapons customized through the HOM or getting back your mini customized too. Could not be sold so would not be wealth, but would be cosmetic.

There will always be different people in different phases of the game, so meh, just semi good point.

At least you are agreeing with me on this point. I call it "vanity" item, you call it "cosmetic"... same thing. Guild wars is about vanity and people show their time, wealth, dedication, whatever they call it in their armor, weapons, or minis. Its all cosmetic. Take the cosmetic into GW2 and they will have loyal fans. It can be done correctly and not give an advantage over others.

I disagree. Most people complain about others horning in on their wealth. They think this is a zero sum game. He wins, so I lose, type of thing. In this case, if SF is left alone, I see a lot of winners and not a lot of losers except those people who feel morally superior. Putting together a balanced group is easier than ever because there are people without sins who are waiting for any type of group to get started. My guildies do slow 40 minute urgoz runs, slow FoW runs, etc all the time. They do the speed crap too. It's all good. 32 flavors to meet your desires. If you cant find a group to join then start one and see how fast it fills up. I did it a month ago for a uw run cuz I was bored and was overwhelmed with pugs wanting to get into the group. So dont tell me it is excluding others from playing the game, because that wont fly with me.

LoL. Give yourself orders, it might work better, which is my outlook on SF too. It is not for me, but if others want to do it, let them have fun. It has no impact on me, and has no impact on you if they do it. Someone has yet to post how SF has hurt their gw life. It hasnt. This is not a zero sum game.

I am not into speed playing or I would be doing uwsc and running those crap chests for the title that you mention. I do Jade knights outside of Senji looking for rare canthan drops for the last few items I want before quitting. Impossible without SF and even dam hard then cuz the mages do aoe right thru SF.

...and Plekki... you would not have made half the ectos you have made reselling stuff without the inflation the uwsc'ers have brought to rare weps.

Better late than never I suppose.

Because it's the only thing left in the end-game that's actually enjoyable to do?

FYI, after the 50 hours needed to beat the 4 games/storylines, EVERYTHING in this game is basically a farm, be it title farm or high end farm.

Um... last time I checked, PvE requires MILLIONS of gold.

LOL. That is the funniest thing I have heard all week. Thank you for that. Oh wait, you're serious....?

Let me put this as bluntly as I can. Gold = titles = PvE. If you disagree, then you are essentially more interested in socializing in a giant chat room. In which case, you are a casual player, so WHY DO YOU CARE???

You know that envy turns you green, right?

Ecto prices will NOT increase that much, if at all. Since so many people who farm and power trade with ectos hoard them like crazy, the number of ectos actually being sold and bought from the material trader (which is the only thing that actually effects the prices) is miniscual compared to the number of ectos people have stored up. Just because it will be slower to farm ectos now doesn't mean the millions of ectos that are already out there will disappear.

Since many people will be aware of this incoming nerf, many people will try to manipulate it to earn profit. Of course, this means that the price spike will be countered by the speculators.

Expect ectos to rise in price at MOST by 1-2k in a few days after this update, and then crash back down to the same as it was before (since the total supply of ectos actually in the market at the time will not be instantaneously affected).

PS edit: this is what happened every time ecto farms have been nerfed. Anybody who thinks ectos will double in price haven't been power trading for that long. Prices of ectos will always gradually drop as the only way to really decrease the number of ectos in the system as a whole is with FoW armor. And since the demand for FoW steadly declines as more and more people get it and fewer people play the game, ectos will never significantly rise in price as their supply by farmers will always be outstripping the pace of people making FoW armor. Only a significant increase in demand for ectos that removes them from the economy would increase ecto prices substantially (such as the reward for FoW armor in GW2 being ridiculous, new items that use ecto to craft, etc).

As far as I am concerned, they could have left Ursan alone and they can leave SF alone. They do not have any affect on my play. Let people play the way they want.

I don't have a Sin, and never used Ursan beyond the quest it was needed in. So IMHO, leave it alone.

Could not disagree with you more.

PvE "requires" having tons of money? Since when is ANYTHING "required" while playing a game.

Just because you think the game is all about title grind, doesn't mean everybody does. Believe it or not, the game got along just fine prior to factions being released back when no titles existed.

This game is about having fun. Nothing more. Now, if you have fun grinding titles, that is fine. But don't assume that is all anybody else does it for.

Edit: Tramp, they already said in the very first interview in the PC gamer magazine that announced GW2 2 years ago that wealth will not transfer.

The developers are only realizing the problem just now?

slowpoke.gif

Here are my thoughts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXNnJE6gNEk

The baby nails it.

A skill that is either useless or abused must be changed to become something else, usable, but not excessive.

shadow form should be nerfed. I do uwsc from time to time and tank other stuffs its so ridiculously OP.

However, 600 monks deserve a nerf more then anything else. I mean uwsc typically nets u 2 ecto...vs are rare and prob seen it twice after like 60+ runs. 600 monks running dungeons however, make ton loads more money then a perma and its ridiculous how one player plus 1/2 heros can literally solo dungeons. When they nerf permas, i would be trying my best to make 600 gets nerfed as well

you are completely wrong. people pay for runs because many simply lacks knowledge on how to run a zone properly. Even if all builds were to get nerfed, you will still find a runner and people paying for it. Taking perma/600 solo areas aside, just take a look at guru service thread to hammer my point in.

People play for tuns because there is no one else to form parties in those mission outposts.

Why? Because they don't have to form parties, because there is always a runner doing it faster.

either nerf shadowform or make it so you can keep it perma at 12 shadow arts O_o so all classes can use it. this assassin farming business is making me go batty... it's my second least liked class (first goes to monk)... and guess what... BOTH ARE THE BIGGEST FARMING CLASSES!

They can fix SF by making it end after the player attacks/uses a skill. That way it would eliminate solo farming but not as a tanking skill.

Ding ding ding. I've said it before and I'll say it again...while there was inbalance before the split, after the split any hope for balance was gone.

no it doesnt. title grinding may require millions of gold should you grind the titles. just playing each profession through the games their first time in NM can be done pretty cheeply. then add in the z-missions and bounties now, needed gold for equipment upgrades comes pretty easy and farming isnt needed. actually if you pick your titles right, doing the titles that dont cost money, just the time it takes to do them, puts you at My Guild Hall Smells of Rich Mahogany(rank 5) with 25 titles and in the process you better have of gotten enough gold to pay for the skill hunter titles bringing you to 29 titles and whats left should pay or get you dang close the the 30th title and GWAMM.

R Frost is correct. You can play extremely well with a cheap set of max armor and some good hero builds. 100k (which is NOT hard to make, even just playing general, casual PvE) will get you several setups that can blow through HM like nothing.

The only titles you even need money for are the consumables and skill hunters. If you need the money, do Guardian, Vanquisher, and GW:EN titles first. Once you've finished those, you WILL have enough for skill hunter, and between general gameplay and events, the consumables aren't that hard either. How many people do you really think have shelled out 3M for drunk/sweet/party? A few, sure, but not many. I haven't spent a dime on any of them and I'm 1/3 of the way through all of 'em.

You win with this one sentence, perfect.

No Sf = New random PvE speedclear build coming out within 5 days. And then guess what, after a week people will complain about it. Then,,,,,, eventually anet will nerf and we start the cycle again.

Nerfing Shadow Form is unnecessary. If ANet just changes Rend Enchantment to a skill (or a signet) instead of a spell, it will cut UW speed clear groups by more than half. And increase the time required for those who still do it. I'm convinced that there are plenty of failers who are currently doing UWSC who don't have the ability to do it if Dying Nightmares could remove SF.

Please keep the flaming and insults toward other users out of the thread. Stay on topic and contributing.

My apologies Inde.
-----------------------

"I feel we ALL want ShadowForm fixed due to the fact it is being EXPLOITED as a broken game mechanic.
When broken, fix it.
I can't think of any reason not to fix it, especially now, with all the GW2 info hitting the media, ect...people are going to come see what GW is all about.
The last thing the Devs want to see is a whole new generation of players exploiting their game...because they (players) think it is normal.
ANet wants their game(s) to have a resemblance of balance...so broken skills will be fixed.
It may not happen all at once, but slowly, as they too have a schedual to keep."

'Bout damn time.
Obsidian Flesh will probably come after SF. After that, there aren't any other options for a SC unless Anet's pet monkey (the same one responsible for SF, consumables, and PvE skills) gets out of his cage and starts breaking the game again.
Money = Green so Green = Money (Symmetric property)
Money = Gold, Gold = Titles, Titles = PvE (Given)
I = Green, Green = Money, Money = PvE Therefore, if I = Green, I = PvE. (Transitive property)
And if I'm PvE, you'll do what I say. I say nerf SF.

Hows that for logic?

and the last time i checked, i'm not green. my forum name and avatar are though, but i'm not.

titles = pve? ok, does that mean if i don't have any titles, my ability to go through pve would be greatly diminished? really? seriously, really? titles = pve... that's probably the most asinine thing you've said so far.

Too little, too late is what I would say.

If Anet is gonna "fix" SF, do it earlier or never do it at all. These who farm ectos to just get the high ends are already done with the task, they got what they wanted and they couldn't care less for UW. The rest are either newer players who is in the process of attain titles/high ends or hardcores who just can't leave UW. But to nerf/fix SF now would be a waste in that you are fixing an issue that had already had it's effect and also as the GW population continues to slide. As less and less people are actually playing GW, there is simply no need to do something like fixing SF, there are lots of games that are better than GW now, and just by fixing SF isn't gonna have much practical effect, ok, so what if ectos are back to 5k each?

Just what I see anyways, flame away if you wish............

Why does anyone care anyway? Is it simply to keep the game balanced? it's not like everyone is into the perma sin. I have one, or tried, and really, it's not very interesting or fun. Monotonous farming isn't everyones cup of tea.

Despite the invulnerability of the skill, there will always be people who just simply don't care how uber it is, so why nerf it and ruin the fun of the people who do? The game developers should be flattered that people are interested enough to take skills and ideas in directions they never thought of, so don't hit them with the 'bad gamer' stick. Let them have their fun.

Just curious. Really, it's all kinda silly to me.

It is EXPLOITING a broken game mechanic, it is not the normal function of the skill.

What you just said makes no sense. Apparenlty not everybody wants it to be fixed because there are a number of people happy to exploit it.

Too late. The game has been nothing but an inbalanced exploitfest since Nightfall and arguably earlier. Since Nightfall is not arguable though.

Then why take months to fix these broken skills?

So the Devs created Shadow Form with the intention of it not being used as a perma almost invincibility yet after several updates the function hasn't changed? Is it just me or is that plain stupid?

huh? I don't follow your point. just because it hasn't been fixed before doesn't mean it isn't broken. *sigh*

I guess it's pointless to try and convince either side of this argument to change their minds because one side wants to play the game as intended and the other one is sick of playing it that way and not getting what they want. *shrug*

They should just nerf it already to stop this QQing all over :/

they should balance everything IMO
the only skill that truly dominates GW is protective spirit
cuz that's what keeps your ass alive in HM no matter what

Don't get me wrong, I want to see SF getting nerfed. But calling a skill an exploit while it has been around for so long without being disabled just doesn't add up...