Shadow Form meets the end

1. She said SF makes GW 90% soloable.
2. She said she loves to farm.
3. She said there are few farmable areas.
4. She said these few areas require many different kinds of builds for soloing.
5. She again referred to SF as an iWin for doing the same thing as all those different builds. (remember "just one iWin button")

So her basic argument boils down to "I want many iWin buttons, made for only specific areas, so I have to switch characters, equipment, and builds before owning that area. This way I don't feel guilty for steamrolling an area because I actually had to change a few things first."

Let's see what this 90% soloable build is vulnerable to, shall we:
1. AoE or PBAoE
2. Conditions (not spell or attack related, such as traps)
3. Non-spell type enchantment removal such as Expunge Enchantments (unless Shadow Form is covered with other enchantments) or non-target enchantment removal.
4. Interruption by knockdown or non-spell skills.
5. Touch skills (Vampiric touch, etc.)

1. Right
2. Wrong , she said SOLO farming . SCs are a farm too .
3. Wrong , she said that there are few SOLO farmable areas.
4. Not entirely wrong , its about diff build to diff places , not that with X build you can farm Y areas and you have to change the entire build to switch to another.
5. Wrong again , she said that SF does that in 90% of the GAME areas , not the few areas that should be soloable.

Wrong again ( holy christ misunderstanding ). She thinks there should be builds that can farm few areas but not in a "I win" button , wich is the real point of the game.
Now imagine how stupid it would be if we take the things you want ( an IWIN button that works on 90% areas instead of having to switch builds and chars ). Lets take that to PvP for example :
- There wouldnt be 8 profs , just 3 Monk , DamageDealer , Support.
- All Damage dealers bars would be the same : ( strikeA , strikeB, strike with + while X , strike that inflicts Y condition , run , attack faster , whatever , res ) but with diff weapons.
bla bla bla so on ....

Fixed , seriously ..... No . Just .... no .

PvP and PvE are two cmpletely different animals, and you can't actually take that conversation into PvP because SF doesn't work the same in PvP now does it?

I quoted her words, I showed her argument, I proved it false. You can try to twist and misdirect all you want, you fail.

And who the hell did say that ? once again , you didnt understand anything.

I quoted your words, I showed how you failed, I proved it with simple words. You can misread and misunderstand all you want , you did nothing but nonsense answers to questions no one asked. GL .

Keep on trying. You're the one muddying the conversation with comparisons that don't work. You're trying to argue how glaring the imbalance and unfairness of SF would show in PvP. But they're two completely different things and you didn't like that I wouldn't fall for that cheap trick.

You cannot compare competative Player versus Player arenas to PvE which is an online Role-Playing game!

Let's assume for a moment that SF = God Mode. Is there a god mode in Doom 3? yes. Are there god mode switches in most if not all player vs AI enemy type games? yes. Does it ruin the game? no. Is there a god mode in First-Person Shooters? no. Why? Because you want to create as even a playing field as possible so players can win/lose based on what skills they have and not what skills they brought.

I have a PC version of Scrabble. If I'm playing the PC I can choose to hit the hint button on every turn and have the pc pick the bets possible play for me every time (iWin). If I'm playing against a human opponent, that hint button is no longer available. My god, it's an easy comparison, can you see the point yet?

So you think there should be a godmode button in PvE, and thereby ruin the challenge of it? mmmk..

I don't agree that it is godmode since there are many counters to it. But even assuming it is, how does one person using godmode (iWin, whatever) affect you? You want to do things differently? What's stopping you? This is not about SFers controlling the way you play the game, this is about non-SFers dictating how everyone "is supposed" to play the game.

You know, I'm pretty sure anet didn't mean for Legendary Survivor to be a King Chickens**t title either, but it doesn't stop people from getting powerlevelled, sitting safely out of aggro range, racking up the XP.

You do realize that the "how that affect you" didnt worked when the game come out.

didn't worked on protective bond nerf.

Didn't worked on the first Smiting skills nerf

Didn't worked on MM nerf

Didn't worked on Spirit bond nerf

Didn't etc etc etc etc

Whatever you like or not that is a excuse that never worked from the start of gw to now.

Yes, everyone should be able to do everything in the game since they bought it.

Godmode for everyone imo

Yay! I finally won you over to my side of th.....oh wait, that was sarcasm wasn't it?

SF does affect other players. Before, I could go into underworld with 4 or 5 out of 10 professions. Now its pretty much just 1 unless I'm "lucky" enogh to fill a support slot of which there are only 2 now (iirc). MY CHOICE has basically been removed, something a lot of SFers think SF brings to the table.

Nobody in pugs wants to try anything different because it's so efficient and I don't blame them for that. But the effieciency of the build is too good, therefore, it at least needs toning down. e.g. Make SF, ob flash and spellbreaker skills where you can tank pretty good but deal no damage.

And about the whole godmode is needed as pve cheat thing, i learned when I was a kid that cheating in games is stupid. Why buy a game, get stuck and immediately turn to cheats just because you aren't good enough? Not only that, but buying a game and cheating your way through it is a wast of money. If you keep sticking at it, you get better at the game, it holds you're interest longer, and it may encourage you to use try even harder things.

And if I cannot pass a part of the game , and there are no cheats, do I bitch at the game devs? No, I either go do something else or look for guides/walkthrough for specific parts.

you do realise since SC was found no matter what they do to any skill a new SC will be found and that proffession will be singled out to do run after run after run....so getting rid of perma will only remove alot of players and make another proffession (warrior or ele probably)...the new SC monsters...and then we will see a ''zomfg nerfbat this obbyflesh plox'' thread, and so it shall go on...and on....and on....

SF still meeting it`s end..

Then why are you sweating while saying those words ? your hands are shaking dear .....

you do realise since SC was found no matter what they do to any skill a new SC will be found

True, most likely not that powerfull, but still.

so getting rid of perma will only remove alot of players and make another proffession

People who play the game couse they like it wont leave when SF is being nerved.
Making a other proffesion. Possible,,,,,there are so many other solutions to
getting somewhere. There will only not be a SC anymore after the area name.
And that doesn't bother me.


and so it shall go on...and on....and on....

That I agree on and on and on and on......
Anet just don't know when to stop changing skills in PvE.
I a PvP environment I can fully understand that. But in PvE its really annoying.

I've beat all content, more that once, never using SF. All that's left in GW is grind until GW2 is released. According to anet's own words, they wanted GW to be the anti-grind mmo. As soon as GW2 was announced (a little before actually) titles and rep-locked skills were introduced, adding tons of grind into a game where there is now little else to do. So, those of us who are left hanging around do what's available. People find ways to reduce the grind and make GW fun again instead of tedius, but I guess fun is no longer the focus of the game.

Here's a compromise for you. You want to end any "overpowered" builds that come along? Fine. Unlock the rep-locked skills (make them quest rewards or something) so that I can get the skills I want, and do what I want in the game without all the grind to get them to their max. Rep-locked skills are the only skills in the game where you have to grind your *ss off to make them worthwhile. That's a compromise I could live with, but I don't speak for everyone who is against this nerf.

This is a joke, right?
Your argument for trashing SF is that it excludes players out of the content and a suitable fix for you is one that STILL excludes half the classes?
IF you are fine with classes being excluded, that means you need to accept the possibility that YOUR class will be excluded.

im not sweating ive got or had all proffessions and played them through most of the campaigns etc etc etc the usual repeatable stuff that this game has...so i tried summit different..speedclears and yes sin is atm the best so i use her...then when thats gone ill change to another one of my chars and abuse any OP skills that it has to make area's as fast as possible....that is what this game is about 'making a skillbar as efficient as possible'' be it broken overpowered or whatever....but alas we seem to have one which is too overpowered even tho it deals 0 damage...maybe the ele or other proffession skills attached to it need nerfed?? ...but whao...wait a minute that means nerfing an ele or monk skill so that would cause mass panic and walkout so we dare not speak of touching those....but as regina did say perma is going its part of the game to change skills and improve...so maybe, just maybe once SF goes we might get an even better farm which has been sat dormant and yet to be found as SF is still top dog amongst us speedclearers (which everyone is in this game one way or another).

So who wants to take bets? Will the QQ's go after R/RT Spirit Spammers next? I mean the build can already solo UW pretty much already and a team set up is being tested out. After all, the purists can claim that it's not the way Rangers were intended to be played after all. Oh wait. Since it would take longer, I guess it'll be okay.

thank you this is what people dont understand.

omg QQ Trinity
Omg QQ ursan
omg QQ SF
omg QQ ____

As it is now, we have 11 professions. THe 10 we already know, and 'perma'.
People don't ask for assassins in the game. They ask for 'permas'.
That happened too with ursans.
They were faster with Ursan's removal (yet still not fast enough), but this is almost the same.
The difference is that URsan let anyone in.
SC forces you to play an assassin. Which is worse.

If ANet did anything wrong, is leaving things like Shadow Form working and untouched for so long.
People get used to them, and after some time they think that's the normal way of playing, and when you get rid of them, they feel as if you were removing an entire part of the game. As if they were removing and entire profession, an entire area or even a campaign.
Not everyone deals fine with change. So the sooner it's done, the better.
Now, if anyone has a problem with Shadow Form being removed, they should learn about Grief. It is said that grief has 5 stages:
1. Denial - "Shadow Form is fine."
2. Anger - "Don't change Shadow Form or I'll quit the game!!!"
3. Bargaining - "Could you do this or that instead?"
4. Depression - "Oh, no, they finally changed shadow form, I can no longer earn gold... T-T"
5. Acceptance - "Let's check PvXWiki for another farming build..."
It has been ALWAYS like that with every single change and update someone didn't want. Hasn't it? Look at the change that added inscriptions, insignia and upgrades for wands, shields and foci: one of the best changes in the game ever, and there is still people that is stuck in Denial and Anger with them. But with the Bear, it was pretty quick, most of the people is in acceptance now with that. They said they would be keeping an eye on some speed clears and the skills used in them, they did, and they finally reached the same conclusion many other GW players have reached already a long time ago: It is overused, and must be taken care of.

That's all. Just people getting to acceptance later than the rest.

No, not QQ trinity, since there was never anything bad about it. Yes it was a horrible boring gimmick, but you know what? It was also a fallback. It wasn't the optimal build, it was just the easiest and most obvious. If you were good enough, you could play something much more efficient.

For Ursan, it was different, and for SF, it still is different. Those two were/are the best at what they do. Not a least common denominator, far behind the edge of skill, but something that is both easy and extremely efficient to play.

And if ____, the next standard gimmick, is a fallback too, I'd have no problems with it.

So you don't think that CoP spike was the trinity evolved?

it's about damn time they "fixed" shadowform. And by fixed, i mean neutered.


/random drop in by me.
/disappears again.
/admits he doesn't play anymore. :O

To be fair, the QQ here come only from one side, the other side already got what they QQed for, sure anet is taking their sweet time but it will be done.

Way to go live team!

Very interesting read for the most part. And even though I fall squarely in the keep shadow form camp. What is ANET's policy and why the change now after so long...

For ANETS policy we can go here:

Dec 2008 update:
After repeated adjustments to both the skill and the Underworld, Shadow Form continues to dominate PvE farming. All the adjustments we have made to this style of farming have aimed to slow players down but not eliminate it as a viable farming option. We recognize the fact that farming with Shadow Form-based builds can be really fun, so we have not resorted to breaking the ability to keep Shadow Form up permanently. However, we continue to be uncomfortable with the speed in which players are able to complete various popular farming runs. We have decided to try one last time to scale down the effectiveness of Shadow Form while still allowing it to be maintained permanently.

By reducing the recharge and duration time, we force players to cast Shadow Form more frequently, which in turn increases the Energy pressure associated with maintaining the skill. For Assassins with modest Energy pools, this results in more conservative Energy management through weapon swaps and lowers damage per second as damaging skills have to be cast less frequently in favor of saving up enough Energy to cast Shadow Form again. For non-Assassin primary characters (such as the Elementalist with an Energy pool large enough to worry less about Energy pressure) this change makes maintaining Shadow Form a much more delicate balance. There is little margin of error because it requires a full spectrum of skills, consumables, and weapon swaps to simultaneously increase the duration and reduce the recharge of Shadow Form enough to maintain it permanently.

So ANET did not want to eliminate SF, just slow it down. Does anyone really think ANET gives a crap about people amassing wealth in game? If they did they would have never given us things like XTH, special events and so on...

Farming is fun for a large group of people. ANET recognizes this and states as much...

However they are uncomfortable with speed certain runs are being completed...

On to this update from june 2009:

Runs, Solo Farming, and Speed Clears
Players have long asked for our viewpoint on these ways of playing through content.For the most part, we think these are acceptable ways of playing Guild Wars but may occasionally take steps to increase their difficulty or even block a particular build. For instance, when it comes to Shadow Form, there is little concern about solo farming in most places; however, the speed clears of our most difficult content have become fast enough to warrant a more watchful eye. Over the coming months we will monitor these areas and, starting with Cry of Pain, make adjustments where necessary.

From this we can determine that ANET
1. Thinks farming is acceptable
2. They have little concern about solo farmers.
3. Speed Clears of the most difficult content is a problem.

Finally this most recent item from Regina:

I just posted this on the wiki.
I would like to take the time to address a couple of questions that came up after the latest scheduled game update.

The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.)
This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills.
Work on this next update is currently in progress, but it looks like it will not happen this month. We are aiming for not only “tweaking numbers” of certain skills, we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live. Unfortunately it took longer than expected to get the Test Krewe off the ground.

I hope this sheds a little bit of light on what’s happening and where we are going.
__________________
Regina Buenaobra
Community Manager
ArenaNet, Inc.

Again we have the speed clear reference and the addition of Dhuum to reduce the time taken to complete the clear.

Looks like ANET is trying to target certain groups from being able to get huge amounts of gold/ectos/items. Since they have stated previously that they could care less about solo farmers and I would be willing to add guilds and alliances in this because amassing wealth by these groups does not affect ANET in any way.

I think it is the gold sellers the want to slow down more than normal players. It also seems like there has been an increase in hacked accounts since the addition of Dhuum. Hacking has always been there but recently it looks like it is on the rise. A response from the RMT's perhaps? Would not surprise me.

IMHO this warrants ANET's action against SF and other prominent farming skills. While I will be sad to see them go I can understand and agree with it from this viewpoint.

Even if it is not the case and ANET just cares about everyone speed clearing "the most difficult areas", ANET should just ban the skills from the areas of concern. So if you try to enter UW you are stopped until you remove the skill from your skill bar. I think this would stay in line with ANETs repeated claim that they are not concerned with solo farmers. And they do not have to go through the hassle of tweaking the skills they feel are responsible for the speed clears. Just do not allow the skill(s) in the area of concern and be done with it.

Hell they could even put a silly line about it when you are denied entry. Dhuum could speak and say he is the only god allowed here.

The simple fact is, 5 professions is still better than 3. Yes, its not a fix and I'm not saying it is ideal, but why live with something that makes it worse? Besides, if they were to make SF a "tank but deal no damage" type of skill, then assassins would surely get into groups (provided the same idea was applied to ob flesh & SB). Not only that, but rits would thanks to SoS and, if they're lucky, even mesmers as a VoR EVAS type build. So potentially, there could be room for 7 or so different classes in the typical tanknspank pug. Dervs are the only class that really need a buff imo.

My class always has, and almost always will be excluded and I have no qualms about it. However I dont accept the fact that out of 6 characters that I personally have, only 1 would be accepted into an UW pug.

Overall, of course I'm not fine with any class being excluded, but simply ANet dont have the time or resources to balance every class to "pug standards" so to speak.

--

mrvrod - I'd be fine with rep skills being unlocked, never did like the whole grind 6 title tracks out to be "the best" idea.


--

Axeman002 - Yes a new gimmick will appear, but as long as it isnt as discrimnatory and overpowered as SF, it won't nearly be as bad as SF/Ursan. If it is op, ANet need to deal with it sooner rather than later.

It is funny and interesting how some people here attempt to destroy elite areas in the game one by one.

They QQ for Ursan nerf and that resulted in the current ghost city DoA. Now, they are trying to do the same thing to UW. I think you all would never be satisfied until all elite areas are deserted and reserved only for your own hardcore PvE/farming guild team.

All farming builds, especially the solo and < 8 team members builds, are overpowered. It is no wonder that from all your QQ complaints, that ANet is considering nerfing farming altogether.

If SF is nerfed, other farming builds are not going through this, unscathed either. Whether you like it or not, SF is a representation of farming builds. I dont care whether it is easier or more overpowered than 55, or not. They would and should all be lumped together and nerfed because they are close enough in terms of their usage. This would be the result of your complaints, I hope you like it. Remember the old adage: be careful what you wish for, lest it come true.

Don't speedclear, problem solved. Don't even need a skill nerf to SF. Since speedclear is a byproduct of Perma SF, that's like an alternate gameplay mode, if you want to call it that. Many in this thread seem to be against the ability to speedclear, based on some morally ambiguous outrage. When I wanted to get into a DoA group with my Sin, I was told to roll an Ele or War. So now all the non-Sins will have to roll Sins if they want to speedclear. Fair justice.

Besides, so many people in this thread seem to think that there is a "way the game was intended to be played" and say that SF goes against this. They are retarded, since SF is not the cause of speedclears, its just enables them, people want to finish these repetitive dungeons and elite areas faster because the rewards in most cases do not justify the time investment. Nerfing SF will not solve any problems, it will just remove Assassins from PvE again, and some other build will take their place. Which of course is fine for all the Sin haters out there, but not so for Sin players.

Shadow Form is an Elite that was released with the Sin class. It ONLY became perma-able with the release of EoTN and GoS and consets. Which of course many think are unbalanced and ill thought out to begin with. So again, the problem is not SF, but the shoddy method used by ANet to "balance" things out. If anything is unbalanced, its skills like Pain Inverter which enable instagibs of super powerful mobs and end bosses like Ilsundur. Shadow Form itself just enables the runner/tank, it doesn't actually do any killing.

But one could argue that with the way GW is designed, skill builds and cross class skills are meant to be exploited and used, such as OB Flesh eles using Stone Striker and Mantra of Earth for massive damage reduction and unlimited energy.

Really? The five stages of Grief to describe this? I was going to change some of the wording and show how the same process could describe SF QQers, but that would just be infantile and serve no purpose. Suffice to say, thats a bit heavy handed and rediculous, those defending SF and then offering positive changes are doing more good for the game than those who are just complaining and wanting SF and Sins removed entirely. Its much more mature to try and effect positive change, rather than tearing something down. Ironically, the process you describe perfectly details the reason why nerfing SF WON'T in fact change anything, and will only continue the process. Thanks for making all the SF advocates' points!

I don't think I've ever read a thread that people were angry with the ability to make more customizations to their gear. And if there were, it must have been such a minority as to go unnoticed. This thread on the other hand has been around for a month and is on 50 pages. Should say something about the relative importance.

Speedclears again are a problem that is indicative of a game design flaw, not a few skills or builds. Ursan was GOOD for the game because it allowed all classes, regardless of base profession to participate, as well as having a reason to bring a toon such as a Mesmer or Sin through EoTN, because there was the possibility of engaging in high end content. Nerfing Ursan made many high end areas ghost towns. Go try and get a PUG for the Deep or DoA, its almost a guarantee it can't be done now except by Sin PUGs or organized Guilds. Remove Sin SF, and that cuts down random groups even more. Killing off entire game areas because a few whiners don't like a build is NOT a good idea IMHO.

Perhaps the SF haters should come to the acceptance that SF is good for the game, and rather than nerf Sins back into obscurity, ANet should instead buff skills in professions like Rangers, Mesmers and Dervs to make them competitive with SF for speedclearing?

Speedclearing is indicative of people losing interest in the game. When optimization becomes such that its preferable to blow through content, skip voice over cutscenes and everything else because a vast majority of players have seen and done these things hundreds of times, then ANet should recognize that its game is fast failing, as is interest. Guru posters are NOT indicative of the majority, it could hardly be said they're even a representative slice. They are the hardcore gamerz. If ANet wants a successful GW2 launch, they need to reinvigorate interest in the franchise, and heavy handed nerfs to popular skills due to a minority outcry are NOT a good method of going about it.

........A/Me were perma-ing long before GoS came along.

Honestly its history repeated though. Carry on like this and we'll all be talking about a Flare nerf so that the game is just resorting to swinging a sword and wanding foes to death, since no skills exist anymore.

DoA is dead because everyone logged in on the night of release, decided it was retarded, and never bothered with it again. UW will be killed if they leave it in its hardened state as a response to SF. All they have to do is tone stuff down and it will be fine, just like it was before SF/Ursan. They may aswell make it easier in NM anyway so people can get what they are entitled too 'ey?

Anets decided its look at all farm builds because rather than just doing something in moderation, they have to do it in excess or not at all. That their problem, not the "SF argument" problem.

Lol! NOT true!

DoA used to be bustling with life just before Ursan was nerfed, due to all the QQing going on around here.

That was what QQers said about DoA too when they were asking for an Ursan nerf. If you want to nerf SF, then go ahead and nerf farming in general and make everywhere else a ghost town for all I care. SF is an "easy-enough" farming build for PUGs and if you want to nerf pugs and pugging in all elite areas, then the DoA situation would be the result.

Just ramping up difficulty in ALL areas of the game, is not necessarily a good thing for a game like GW because then only a small minority of players would play in it once in a while (i.e. ghost town syndrome).

many many many many people QQed about the trinity that is a fact..

And i hate SF as much as the next guy and wish it had never been put in the game but if people think that nerfing SF will suddenly make the game balanced, cause all proffesion to be useful and we all will sing kumbaya then they are sadly mistaken.

Nerfing SF will just mean a change of scenery.

We can all start the new monkway or petway or whatever the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO it is.
Then eventually everyone will QQ about that untill anet nerfs it.

Never ending cylce of guildwars

That was the point. They thought it was a retarded area so only bothered with it when imba stuff was around. People did UW before SF/Ursan. They are in 2 different situations.

I suggested lowering difficulty in NM so MORE people could do it.

No, they are not. The idea behind all the Elite areas like DoA and UW are that they are difficult-er. The issue with DoA was that it was SO hard that only perfectly organized teams or Ursan runs were able to get through it.

But that's just a matter of degree. In my estimation, UW is MUCH easier than DoA. But the idea behind both is the same. If ANet takes away the "easy" way of doing these Elite areas, they turn into ghost towns.

The reason being of course that the time taken with balanced teams and/or PUGs is in no way worth the reward. The same thing is common in EoTN dungeons. People are willing to pay vast sums of money for "runs" because actually playing through these frustrating areas with a balanced team is crazy when it takes two plus hours for one onyx gemstone.

ANet "balanced" EoTN around PvE skills and consets, likewise, these same things are used elsewhere. Since DoA and HM dungeons represent the MOST difficult areas, other areas that are not as naturally difficult, such as FoW and UW will appear much easier by comparison.

Bringing UW up to the difficulty level of DoA or HM Dungeons is an asinine move by ANet, introducing more monsters like Skeletons of Dhuum which leave the players ZERO ability to counter, apart from massive healing and massive DPS only further marginalizes classes like Mesmers, Rangers and Dervishes.

The whole point of GW was skill > grind, and a rock-paper-scissors build methodology to allow players the ability to conquer any area with effort. By introducing a mob such as the Skeletons of Dhuum which have no counter except massive DPS and/or healing, ANet is removing the whole precept or countering. The problem with imbalanced monster skills and environmental effects means players will search for the strongest and most efficient builds to counter them.

But the problem with that is when the monster skills are largely un-counterable, you knock out a whole range of classes and make the areas unplayable and unenjoyable. Conquering these areas then becomes an issue of "just getting it done" for a HoM trophy, which is one of the reasons no one repeats these areas if they can avoid it.

Unfortunately this suggestion falls on deaf ears. SF haters want the difficulty raised to exclude all but the most elite players and guilds, which will make elite areas even more barren of players. ANet's balancing philosophy seems to conform to the dartboard philosophy, put a bunch of bad ideas up and throw a dart, wherever it lands is what they do.

What ANet SHOULD do is revamp these elite areas to make less use of unique, overpowered monster skills, and make them more conducive to other classes. Bigger mob sizes that are vulnerable to traps (with the mobs not being AS powerful as lvl 29 aatxes), or AoE interrupts would be a start. Perhaps reduce the "scatter" AI in very hard places like DoA, while making them not hit so hard, so that Paragons' shouts can be used in place of a Prot monk (and not just SY!), while Dervishes AoE scythe attacks would be of great use.

The bottom line is, GW is horribly imbalanced in most areas in favor of only a few classes, namely the Warrior, Monk and Ele, with most other classes seeing only moderate, or niche use. Introducing areas who's only counter is increasing DPS and healing/prots only makes this imbalance worse. Introducing a monster that is invulnerable to damage but is killed instantly when interrupted would be a neat addition, such as making those Frenzied Aatxes die from one Cry of Frustration a neat twist.

[edit] or heck, even better, to defeat an enemy you have to have an emote battle like that one mission in NF. Or perhaps certain monsters you actually have to emote "rock paper scissors" and they emote back!

People did UW "balanced" for a little while when the area was still new and interesting. Once the novelty was gone there was a period where ToA WAS nearly a ghost town where most people were doing 55/SS duo and other solo farm, with only a few "balanced" group. And those groups were mostly only for a FoW run to get obsidian armor.

People just didn't remember because at that time The Deep and Urgoz was still popular (because the greens was selling for like 100k+), and the attention was focused on arguing about "letting people in the faction endgame area without a ferry".

Don't agree with this, many have said (in this thread) nerf SF but re-balance normal mode to make it accessible for the standard pug. SF is one of the reasons why theres areas have had their difficulty increased.

Go search around for gemstone prices when it was at it's prime and see if you still feel that way. That place was, and still is to some degree, a gold mine.

At this point I want Anet to hurry up and either shit or get off the pot with this. Speculation is sending ecto prices all over the place. Let's get a nerf going or whatever it is you are planning to destroy so we can hurry up and move on.

GW1 is a fail atm, and Anet dont give a flying shit about it, thats a fact...
Do what Anet does -> play Aion!