Next Skill Balance

I think he was being sarcastic and or ironic ? .... if not ..... puf , god i hope so.

Welcome to 5 years ago.
You can't expect to play the SAME content for 1000s of hours, content that NEVER changes and expect for it to keep the same difficulty.

Unless a massive rework of the game is done, we'll be screaming to rework X in a few months.

Thats why skill updates are so needed,when they update skills you have new stuff to play with but you also have new stuff to deal with.Having constant and regular skill updates gives the game replayablity just because the place you did before isnt the same as the last time you did it, and for some time after the new stuff are introduced that place is somewhat unpredictable and challenging.


Of course we will, Anet has the tendency to include stupid things in their update,but at least untill the problem becomes widespread we will have fun with what we get.

Are they seriously gonna tell us they never saw what might happen when they made SF (to mention one of many) the way it is, I mean common its not that complicated, its 3 skills you cant tell me they never thought anybody was not gonna do deadly paradox+SF...

Like i told you before , not gonna happen. Now they are working on GW2 , its even less possible ( if it was sometime anyway ). So get your "voice" ready to scream but i can tell you , i wont .

how many people said the same thing when ursan was nerfed

You can not kill anything the same lvl or higher solo with SF if you only have those 3 skills on your skillbar, you can not SOLO an elite area with those three and any other 5 skills on your skillbar, and yet people keep calling it God Mode.

Yes SF allows soloing of explorable areas. All of these areas already have solo farming builds that are just as effective. The only difference here is it's one build/one clase instead of having to switch the builds for each different area.

Yes SF allows 1 person to ignore some (not all) groups and run through levels of a dungeon taking the rest of the group with you. So you get to the final level/end chest quicker (for your 2 diamond drop) but unless you have a group that can take out the end mob/boss you will still fail. And again, many of these elite areas already have builds taylor made for making it much easier.

I have played this game for over 4 years, before PvX Wiki. I almost exclusively play a warrior. With the addition of reputation bound skills, you have unbelievable amounts of grind for every character you want to use those skills with, so people look for an easier way to do this.

You want to nerf any build that comes along and makes an area easier? Fine, go right ahead. But how about unlocking rep bound skills? GW was supposed to be the anti-grind mmo remember?

You want elite areas to be ultra hard, less than 60% success rate? Fine, but make the reward worth the effort then. Diamonds, Onyx Gemstones, common golds? That's why I sell my zkeys, let some other fool get a creme brule or a flask of firewater for their 5k!

And the longer this thread goes on, more and more people add their list of hated builds to the list. Nerf 100b?! Come on! Ok, let's nerf Dragon Slash while we're at it, being able to spam an elite skill every second for 10 seconds is just too damn powerful! No one seems to be able to draw a definative line as to where this madness should stop.

Remember too, with the esrb rating and the stylistic rather than realistic way killing is portrayed, Anet has gone after a wide age range here. Maybe there should be a God Mode for the kids who play. The inclusion of ANY build in this game does not force you to use it!

There are guilds advertising every day in almost every outpost that do UW, FoW, Urgoz and everything else under the sun. There are obviously many farming build haters in game as well, so the argument that these builds somehow preclude you from finding others to PuG with seems shaky at best. The only other reason to nerf is to protect the prices/quantity of rare items. If you're worried about how many people are running around with "your" BDS, "your" Obsidian armor, then you're playing this game for the wrong reasons.

There are entirely too many people here worring about how everyone else plays the game.

How many people do you see in DoA not getting a run now, compared to before the Ursan nerf?

Right.

In theory I agree with you. I am very much in favour of a new skill balance.
The problem arries when we take into account the game we are playing. Pretty much the only reason why you'd replay the same content over and over and over again these days is to advance your titles. And these titles are mostly character based. Which means you'll be replaying the same content over and over and over again, just that your elite will once be WoH and the next time it will be UA. Whereas the monsters will not change.
It would be one thing if we'd be in a game where one can freely switch around guys so that once a skill balance arrives one would switch from the assassin to a mesmer and experience a completely new way to play the game. (That is IF they'd actually rework some other crap also so that all classes wouldn't pretty much be YMLD!, EVAS, FH! and AP.) That won't happen. Or, if they would rework the areas and create new mobs. That won't happen.

They'd need to go to the core, allow us to use our account instead of our characters and work on the persistent part of PvE.
Otherwise all they achieve is one or two days or "ooohh" and "ahhhh"'s and then we're back to "OMG!1! NERF!1!! NERRRRRRRFFFF!".

I don't see why people still say this.
THEY PLANNED FOR SF TO BE MAINTAINABLE.
Check the dev updates.

Of course that won't happen.
And that's the problem. Because when you are doing these micro-balances all you are doing is changing the name of the problem.
So maybe it's time that we ask ourselves how bad of a game do we really have? What will trashing the crap that we have in the game really achieve?

You sound like it was a part of a masterplan and no , it is not. They are not gods , they make mistakes and that was one of them. They couldnt know this was going to happen.

No , you solve little problems that are part of a bigger one and most of the times in order of "size".

The question is , is it better to talk about things that will never happen while you can still smell the sht or actually DO something about it ?.
Most of the times DOING something will CHANGE things for good , sometimes it wont ( making SF mantainable ).

The only thing that they didn't see was the speed.

EDIT:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena...e_Oct-Dec_2008
We had the Ursan issue.
They trashed Ursan.
We had the CoP issue.
They trashed CoP.
And now we have the SF issue.
They will trash SF.

And because we are stuck on micro balance we never get to the core issue.

The problem is that the things people want to change aren't the source of the smell.

@mrvrod, if you were replying to me, I didn t say you could solo stuff with just those 3 skills, i was saying you can keep SF up all the time with just those three skills and which is something in my opinion that they should have been able to see coming.By the way, yes you can solo stuff with just those three skills, just equip yourselfs with a scythe or any weapon for that matter, it will take ages, but you will solo them without them hitting you even once.

Well the reason why skill update is so important, especially now at this stages of the games life, is because the chance are very slim that they will give us new content, so we wont get replayability in that way, at least if they change skills regularly we can have some kinda of fake-replayability.

I didnt know about the dev note your talking about,there is no reason for me not to believe you so I will.In that case they were even more stupid then I though.

people who think that anet "didnt know" that sf would be maintainable are crazy. they made the game, they made the skills, they made the areas, they knew what would be farmed, and how it would be farmed before the content was even released.

raptor cave, you think they didnt put that there intentionally to entice more people to buy EOTN due to word of mouth that raptor farming is FTW?

you think that they didnt know that SF would be maintainable with 2 skills?

just LOL.

the problem with increasing the use of tactics is that they have to boost it offensive and not defensive or the reason why they have kept strength better than tactics is going to show...

since it is non primary attribute giving access to blocking, armor and immunity to knockdown on all those monks with only word of healing and the rest defensive warrior stances and other characters abusing the defense from this non primary attribute (ranger interrupter, hard times even with magebane)

Including YOU!

Thing is some of us are going to WIN as SF and 600 smite are getting NERFed! HaHah

This, also look at the following:

Deadly Paradox - Nightfall needed

Glyph of Swiftness - EOTN needed

Shadow Form - Factions needed

ToA - Original guildwars, that if you want to be in the most active area for FoW/UW groups

Convient that the most broken/overpowered build requires nearly, if not all games and expansions...


Its hillarious how when this game was younger some farms where nerfed within days, which where nowhere near as efficient or broken as what we have today.

And now that they've gotten those sales, it's time to appease the whiners. Maybe I should just do a little research on the most popular builds of each profession and start a qq thread for each of them explaining why they need to be nerfed.

Go for it, just dont be surprised when people start laughing at you because your saying Shock/Axe is overpowered.

I havent read all, but i just want say 1 thing :
Its the first time that i play a game with NERF/BUFFS of skills (IN PVE)...
What the sense?In this game you are force to cooperate or you cant do some areas/mission while, for example, in diablo II with your Sorceress you were able to do all, 1 fireball=50 mobs down...GW, 1 fireball= 1 Mobs laugh on you...what a cool game!!!!No sense all those things in PVE, if you want change PvP OK!!I agree to balance all, 100000% Agree but PvE its so sad.....with your skill you cant kill mobs with your same lvl....

I hope that every word in this post was ment to be sarcastic.

D2 is a lot different from GW, played it for 4 years and GW for almost 5...
they are totally different, both cool but totally different.

Funny how people whine about overpowered crap, but they only target farming spells.

Soul reaping is still overpowered and is the basis for Sabway and all its variants, team builds that degenerate the mind. It's 'godmode' on team level. PvE only skills like SY!, cons etc.

Upcoming nerfs have nothing to do with balance, but with ingame wealth and jealousy.

I played D1,D2,Sacred 1 & 2, GW, Mu fight and Zyper MU, Lineage 2 and others RPG...I confirm all i said, first time i see NERF/BUFF system in PVE <<<.
I agree those things in PvP to balance fights , i agree that weapons have all same stats and only skin change...but not agree that you need heros to fight a group of mobs with your same lvl..Im playing GW for 1 year, and all that i saw in this year is a ongoing updates of skills..
I cant say that is a bad game because im playing it, i like it, but every time they update someting in bad or good i think "Why they doing this?", what the sense??All people speak about perma, who care about perma btw why change skills and nerf them?and why for PVE???Who care if you can kill an aatxe with a shot (NM)??Its different for PvP, because in PVP you face Human, a player like you, if you are overpowered the fight can be "not loyal" , but mobs?Who care of mobs?

I just saying that in GW you cant kill a group of mobs alone, you force to cooperate..in other games no, you can face them....In d2 too "godmode" not exist, but a lv 60 char can face all mobs in NM without problem, maybe just hard on 4th act..but with a little strategy you can still made it.
jealousy for what?A sword with better skin but same stats?(Ps i have all i need so...) or a spear with better skin?(oh..look my avatar)..
In d2 there was Jealosy,because each weapon was different from each other, there yes...i was jealous when ppl with better equip fight with me and they was able to deal triple of my damage..not GW case sorry.

36 pages , about 324 threads about SF and you still dont get it , unbelievable.

#4 Non Valid reason to defend SF on the famous Tenebrae´s "WTF is this guy thinking" list :
- "SF should stay this way because there are X things that are also Broken/Bad designed"

No .... just no.

"Your sentence has nothing to do with this balance thread, is only full of rage and QQ abouf SF rework" <- That is what you get if you look in the mirror.

Seriously , Anet said that this rework is happening , you can stay in denial step , QQ about it or accept it and see what happens next but please dont write same stuff over and over and over again.

So omegaspike is going finaly?

I want to see the new gvg meta for a change

I don't use SF, that's how much you know about me. Take your own advice and start looking at the man in the mirror.

You're the one in denial, by thinking SF is broken and that Anet didn't intend it that way. Quotes from Anet on previous pages prooved you wrong. Speed clears were the real problem. They just give in to whiners like you (who then come complain about QQ, oh the irony) who step by step take away my fun gaming experience in PvE.

Over the years, (solo) farming has become less and less fun. And that's a shame, especially in a game that's 5 years old and where rewards suck. That's my message, because really I don't need to QQ about it, deny or accept it because I already have full hall + gwamm and my character is rdy for GW2.

I'm ready for the nerf, bring it on, adapting is no prob, but I'm almost certain that the fun factor of farming will be decreased again.

First of, the post you quoted from me was not targetted at your comment about Diablo.

By jealousy in GW, I mean E-peen in PvE, yes it does exist. Sure you don't care about for example that sword, but part of the playerbase is involved in high end stuff and ectos etc.

I never said you use it , instead looking at the mirror , try to understand what i wrote. I DO use it.

False ,false And False . Woah 3 false statements in a row :
1- Im waiting for the rework
2- SF is broken , the fact that Anet let SF be mantainable without really thinking about the consecuences doesnt mean the DID know them.
3- Stop making false assumptions because if they did knew , its pretty obvious that they wont be reworking it right now.

You call me whiner with tears in your eyes lol. How does SF rework and its effects on SCs affect you IF YOU DONT use SF as you said before ? .... oh yeah , you are always the non sin in those groups right ? .... lmao. Dont worry , you can still do those areas then.

Oh yeah, back again to #4 reason to defend SF , "rewards / bla bla are broken/bad designed so SF should stay this way".

Sure , you dont use SF , it doesnt affect you at all , rework wont affect your gameplay ( or lack of it ) but you still QQ about ppl that agrees with a SF rework ..... and thats not pure and nonsense rage against that kind of ppl ? right buddy. GL

Rage some more buddy? You already have what you want lol, an upcoming nerf.

And on the contrary to all that crap you post there, I don't have a sin. I'm a monk and I often play as 600 with my friends just for the sport of it as part of endgame content. Give me a PM and you can come with me as smite support if you want, no matter what class you are and we'll farm some ectos in UW for fun.

Oh i see whats your problem , you confuse answers with rageposts that you do. Thats why someone who agrees with a SF rework ( no nerf , READ ) for you is a whiner bla bla bla.

I wasnt the one throwing random BS about e-peen , farmers , highend traders or saying things like "whine" and "jelousy" .
600/smite is getting something too , i dont know what are they going to do but i dont really care , it doesnt affect me , i dont farm ectos or have a monk neither find farming funny but thanks anyway.
Just waiting to see SF rework and tactics + pve Hammer buff , about time .

I rest my case.

Why don't all you know-it-alls go make a friggin game and see how successful it'll become instead of sitting back and playing arm chair quarterback.

You all sit there reading over some text that Anet had originally wrote, mean while twisting and turning things around. Play on words really. Based on a few paragraphs you're all presumably able to figure out what Anet's intentions were. Ya right!

Go make a game already. All your talents are clearly wasted arguing back and forth over semantics. It's time to put up or shut up.

Tell you what, we'll all go and write a game while you go off and create your own discussion forums.

36 pages of redundancy. You must still think we haven't covered everything. Do you see any meaningful discussion left? All I see is individuals passing on what they think they know as facts.

Why is this still being discussed in the first place? There will be a skill balance nerfing SF soon, or there won't be. Let's wait and see?

Speculation. People want to talk about it as this update will change the game for majority of the pve players. But anyway, I'll personally just wait and see how things goes ^^

It'll change it for those attempting to find endgame in GW, that much is true. Can't say it'll affect the majority, though, or if anything here has ever really affected them.

You know what I find amusing? Due to the holiday, I bet that the update will come in February. That being said, I also believe that the Test Krewe will have changed their opinion on some things for the meta as well. All of this discussion(which I like) and arguing(which I abhor) will be for naught. Just sayin' yo.

Whenever something got nerfed to the ground, some were rejoicing and claiming the nerfed skill required no skill to play anyway. But in over four years nobody was really able to tell me what that "skill" was supposed to be and how it is defined.

(1) Selection of eight skills cannot be skillful play, as this is outsourced to PvX wiki.
(2) Pushing eight button can also not be skill as it is hardly complicated.
(3) Reacting within fractions of a second cannot be called skill in GW, since people can observe and interrupt one monster at best and no single monster requires that amount of active attention. GW is best played with more passive defenses.
(4) Reacting to dynamic events is also not skillful play in GW-PvE. It simply has no place there as elite dungeons are best played predicting the raid down to minute details.

If Gun Pierson says it is all about jealousy and wealth, he is spot on. You never hear the people playing Shadow Form, or Ursan, or Cryway, or Sabway, or Tank&Spank, complain about the game being too boring. It is always the people not playing these builds causing the debate.

I expect the usual rebuttals to such a post. Generic and unoriginal. (not your post but the subsequent replies to follow) It's like a broken record replaying itself over and over.

Btw there is a prominent and rich individual who shares your views.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...postcount=1066

1. Remember it is not only about ' picking eight' skills, in the case of PvP you have to pick 64 skills for 8-teams and 32 skills for 4-teams. Knowing how skills synergize, how they work, and how to counter/buildwars the other team does require skill/knowledge about the game. The 8-skill limit doesn't make the game any simpler, the fact that you take a limited amount of skills actually makes some bar-making harder (example: Monks have extremely tight bars that they'd always wish they could take more skills).

2. Do you always play E/x ? Then yes it is not too complicated but still skillful playful is rewarding. Are you just spamming your skills around, not moving away from Rangers and Mesmers range, eating DShots, Powerblocks, PDs? Playing Mesmer is a prime example of skill required, knowing when to play defensively or offensively is a true demonstration of skill. Tactical skills such as Diversion and Shame do reward player ability and awareness.

3. Interrupts can be done by any people with good reflexes and good ping, yes, but *important interrupts* are a different matter. It's not about being able to reflex interrupting 3/4 spells at will, it's about knowing when, who and what to interrupt.

4. Yeah I won't comment on PvE. It takes planning and that's all, once your plan is set, you don't need to be creative and outsmart/surprise/ambush the AI like you often need to do with players.