Next Skill Balance
bitchbar player
For ones i have to agree with Borat
Trip555
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Sure, UW and DoA are HARD if you can't rely on some form on invinci tank, but it's supposed to be. And there not even doing enough with taking 600 smite and SF away. ANY form of tanking which requires nothing more than bashing some skills should be nerfed. People in PvE need to learn again what kiting, body blocking, retreating (when you know you're gonna wipe) and pushing means. |
Similar situation in Gloom.
In the Foundry of Fail the Spiders in room 2 may attack your backline right away (bad spawn) with no choice of the tank getting aggro. Room 3 and 4 are also very hard to pull/tank and if you are lucky enough to clear the whole foundry you have to get weak Snakes out of strong attacking Hordes (might get stuck).
After all this mess you still have to beat two bosses.
People try and try and at some point are just getting a Runner for 20k each.
Reformed
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Originally Posted by Trip555
In the Foundry of Fail the Spiders in room 2 may attack your backline right away (bad spawn) with no choice of the tank getting aggro. Room 3 and 4 are also very hard to pull/tank and if you are lucky enough to clear the whole foundry you have to get weak Snakes out of strong attacking Hordes (might get stuck).
After all this mess you still have to beat two bosses. People try and try and at some point are just getting a Runner for 20k each. |
toocooltang
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Godforbid, you're going to have a build with damage dealers that will actually have to coordinate damage, frontliners who will actually have to coordinate body blocks, and a backline which will actually have to pay some attention instead of spamming Healing seed/party/seed of life. Sure, UW and DoA are HARD if you can't rely on some form on invinci tank, but it's supposed to be. And there not even doing enough with taking 600 smite and SF away. ANY form of tanking which requires nothing more than bashing some skills should be nerfed. People in PvE need to learn again what kiting, body blocking, retreating (when you know you're gonna wipe) and pushing means. Ever since Anet introduced redicilous farming builds (SF, 600 smite) the PvP community went to shit aswell. Mainly because there is no more influx of PvE'ers, as PvP is concidered "too hard" for them. On top of that, since the last year, the few PvE'er that DID dear to venture in PvP did so without getting rid of their PvE mentality. They came to PvP for one reason, and one reason only: to farm their title as fast as possible with as least skill required as possible. Obviously, it's too late to save PvP now, but I wouldn't mind seeing all the builds that caused this mindset amongst PvE'ers go. No reason whatsoever why you should be able to just wiki a build for an ELITE area in HARD MODE and steamroll through it... |
Wait, you want me to play the game instead of running through all the mobs then using sliver armor/radiation field/finish him/ymlad to kill the reapers?
Seriously though, amen dude.
lishi
To be fair, you actually dont have to kill the reaper.
They are kinda key NPC and the game will boot you from UW if they die.
Other than that ya. I still think SF has to be nerfed, even if DayWay milked me a Dhuum's soul reaper.
They are kinda key NPC and the game will boot you from UW if they die.
Other than that ya. I still think SF has to be nerfed, even if DayWay milked me a Dhuum's soul reaper.
Devastating Flames
i would like to see shadow form maid have a cool down of 120 seconds like the avatars do that would great stop all the permas right then and thier.
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by Devastating Flames
i would like to see shadow form maid have a cool down of 120 seconds like the avatars do that would great stop all the permas right then and thier.
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The Last Battle
nerfing stuff like this is one of the reasons normal players turn to hacking..
Killed u man
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Originally Posted by Trip555
Of course you can retreat doing Wastes, Pits or Horseman, however then the monsters head towards the Reaper and you get returned to the outpost.
Similar situation in Gloom. In the Foundry of Fail the Spiders in room 2 may attack your backline right away (bad spawn) with no choice of the tank getting aggro. Room 3 and 4 are also very hard to pull/tank and if you are lucky enough to clear the whole foundry you have to get weak Snakes out of strong attacking Hordes (might get stuck). After all this mess you still have to beat two bosses. People try and try and at some point are just getting a Runner for 20k each. |
My intire point is that nowadays, if there isn't a detailed guide on wiki, people thinks it's impossible to do. If wiki says: "If you have a bad spawn, resign out", people will do that.
Sure, you COULD have bad luck, and they spawn behind your backline, and that's where the "HARD" in hardmode comes in, or "ELITE" in elite area. Your Monks will have to have the brains to MOVE around and loose aggro. Your frontliners will have to change position aswell. Your intire teamsetup has to change according to the situation.
This is closer to PvP than anything else in PvE. And what did Anet do? They allowed redicilous builds to farm this... And sometimes, PvE should overcome. Sometimes you SHOULD party wipe, cuz that's the only way people are going to learn from there mistakes.
"Hey, we keep dying because our Monks are never on the right position, how about having them CHANGE position?"
And then the line between PvE (farm) and PvP (skill) becomes so thin, people can make the jump alot more easily.
Arduin
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Originally Posted by The Last Battle
nerfing stuff like this is one of the reasons normal players turn to hacking..
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At least hacking will get those players banned.
Wuhy
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Originally Posted by The Last Battle
nerfing stuff like this is one of the reasons normal players turn to hacking..
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Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame
YES
The ORIGINAL playerbase bought this game for mainly 2 reasons, one it is free and two because YOUR skill actually mattered, with the way the game is now, you dont even have to learn to play the game, you buy the game you go on wiki copy paste a build, read the notes and you spearhead through almost everything in this game Guildwars is far from boring, you do realize you can do UW just for the ectos that drop on the way, the green you could hopefully get and the drops you can get from the chest and still have fun right?Just because you want to get things without doing any work for it, does not mean you should be able to,speaking of money why the hell do you need money?Most things in this game are cheap as dirt,ow what you want the new shiny stuff as soon as it comes out?Sorry you cant,it is not supposed to be easy to get new shiny stuff, otherwise what would be the point. It is obvious you dont care about the game and game breaking problems,but for the rest of us who do letting Anet know what we think is the only way we can get things fixed. |
zjmc
This may have been said before but if they anet does choose to nerf the main tank builds causing run times of UW, FoW, and DoA to increase substantially then I really hope the drop rates of rare items from said areas increase proportionally. I doubt anyone wants to do 90 minute runs of UW or FoW with the current drops we are all getting.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Wuhy
what the FFFFFFFFFFF are you talking about? seriously... its disturbing...
^this... |
Nerfing can lead to people cheating the game; however, that's a bit of a stretch.
Jae Onasi
If you're going to nerf farming builds, at least make the drops in PvE worth more, or drop more gold off of monsters, particularly outside of UW or FW. You're addressing a symptom (easy farming leading to massive price drop in ecto and obsidian shards) but not the problem--people need a way to make decent gold without having to spend 8 years playing the game. I farm raptors for holiday drops and gold because it's one of the fastest ways for me to get something special like elite armor or party points. The weapons that drop from the raptors, however, are generally just merch food, even in HM. However, doing 10 raptor runs in about a half hour nets me a lot more Asuran points and gold than vanquishing that entire zone in 2 hours does. It costs a ton of money to fill the HoM, and the drops you get even in the higher end areas of all the games, and EotN which is supposed to be a high-end expansion, are just not profitable enough to cover those costs unless you farm or are a power-trader.
If you make it a lot more profitable, reputation point-wise, title-wise and financially, to do non-farming tasks when you nerf the builds, at least you'll take the sting out of the pain of farm-build loss for some of us.
If you make it a lot more profitable, reputation point-wise, title-wise and financially, to do non-farming tasks when you nerf the builds, at least you'll take the sting out of the pain of farm-build loss for some of us.
Arduin
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Originally Posted by zjmc
This may have been said before but if they anet does choose to nerf the main tank builds causing run times of UW, FoW, and DoA to increase substantially then I really hope the drop rates of rare items from said areas increase proportionally. I doubt anyone wants to do 90 minute runs of UW or FoW with the current drops we are all getting.
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Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
people need a way to make decent gold without having to spend 8 years playing the game.
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Killed u man
You guys seem to miss that the value of items is still based on the basic supply and demand system known in economics.
If FoW, UW and DoA became EXTREMELY HARD and LONG, people would definatly think twice about doing it. But this also mean there will be NO MORE income of ecto's whatsoever, nor shards or any other material. So over time, these will rise, and rise, untill people find a nice break-even between time invested and rewards for these elite areas.
Too bad GW is at the end of it's lifespan, and there is a very low demand for crafting materials. This will make it take really long before you notice any sever change in prices. (People simply don't want FoW anymore, because they already have it, or because of the many other options you didn't had during Prophecies days)
If FoW, UW and DoA became EXTREMELY HARD and LONG, people would definatly think twice about doing it. But this also mean there will be NO MORE income of ecto's whatsoever, nor shards or any other material. So over time, these will rise, and rise, untill people find a nice break-even between time invested and rewards for these elite areas.
Too bad GW is at the end of it's lifespan, and there is a very low demand for crafting materials. This will make it take really long before you notice any sever change in prices. (People simply don't want FoW anymore, because they already have it, or because of the many other options you didn't had during Prophecies days)
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by Arduin
Increase droprate-> better chance at the end-chest -> more rare skinned weapons in the game -> supply increases -> prices go down -> people complain about not being able to make money because drops are shitty
Or people could care less about virtual wealth. |
gwkbar
nerf 100b plz
nerf mark of pain
nerf mark of pain
upier
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
monks, kitting, ...
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Twin Blade Warriror
awesome going to buff hammer wars ^^ i never use in pve but maybe after update..maybe something fun to do 
Regulus X
I just hope they don't 25/90 anything if they find w/e they buffed is OP'd..
Elrahir
I suggest keeping SF permable as it is, but making it vurnable to for example elemental damage.
But PLEASE do not make 600/smite unusable!! That's one of the few thing we long-time players have left that still can be fun and nice to do together with a friend.
Who cares anyway if some people makes money? It's still about having fun and enjoying the game no? Sure, teaming up in full teams doing dungeons and missions is fun and was very fun, a few years ago... But in this state of the game when many players have done all content multiple times it's not that tempting to go back to balanced team play again.
There must be some solo/duo farming options for core players, otherwise all of them will depart.
But PLEASE do not make 600/smite unusable!! That's one of the few thing we long-time players have left that still can be fun and nice to do together with a friend.
Who cares anyway if some people makes money? It's still about having fun and enjoying the game no? Sure, teaming up in full teams doing dungeons and missions is fun and was very fun, a few years ago... But in this state of the game when many players have done all content multiple times it's not that tempting to go back to balanced team play again.
There must be some solo/duo farming options for core players, otherwise all of them will depart.
reaper with no name
There will always be farming. It just might not be as fast as before.
And come on. 600/Smite is overpowered and you know it. Yes, it requires skill. Yes, it requires two people. Yes, it's not nearly as bad as SF. But it is still overpowered.
And come on. 600/Smite is overpowered and you know it. Yes, it requires skill. Yes, it requires two people. Yes, it's not nearly as bad as SF. But it is still overpowered.
Freeze_XJ
There will always be whining when something gets hit. That's life. I'm a 600, and i like it. Will i scream when it (finally) gets nerfed? Nope. I _know_ it is overpowered, I _know_ I should be healing my *ss off when walking in CoF HM. That it is easier not to, and just equip zero armor and some skills, well... try blaming me for that 
I for one would be happy if the old balanced teams were returning, back to the time when a tank had to know that more than 3 creeps would mean aggro breaking, and when a monk knew that standing in a meteor shower wasn't smart (the thing has 3 seconds casting time, and then you still have a second to run once you see the stuff falling down. Please don't tell me you didn't see that coming). So, Anet, please put us back 3 years in time, back to when you needed skill to play. Even if that hurts me. Thank you *bows*
I for one would be happy if the old balanced teams were returning, back to the time when a tank had to know that more than 3 creeps would mean aggro breaking, and when a monk knew that standing in a meteor shower wasn't smart (the thing has 3 seconds casting time, and then you still have a second to run once you see the stuff falling down. Please don't tell me you didn't see that coming). So, Anet, please put us back 3 years in time, back to when you needed skill to play. Even if that hurts me. Thank you *bows*
Angel Killuminati
The next skill balance is that the skill bar is going to be cut in half, only 4 skills allowed on your travels and then you are made to work together more, in teams of 8 human players.
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by Angel Killuminati
The next skill balance is that the skill bar is going to be cut in half, only 4 skills allowed on your travels and then you are made to work together more, in teams of 8 human players.
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Glyph of Swiftness
Deadly Paradox
Mark of Rodgort
Fiery Scythe of Enchantment. That is, if they don't nerf it ;d
Fril Estelin
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Originally Posted by Angel Killuminati
The next skill balance is that the skill bar is going to be cut in half, only 4 skills allowed on your travels and then you are made to work together more, in teams of 8 human players.
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Changing SF will have huge and deep repercusions on the game community and it could potentially break it to the point where Anet lost a lot of customers. I bet that a lot of GW players (or Guru-ers) wouldn't want that. Anet needs to be very cautious about it, but are more or less set on doing something.
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
Won't be a problem unless monsters keep 8 skills :P Take a spirit spammer and an MM, and you rebalance the fight.
Changing SF will have huge and deep repercusions on the game community and it could potentially break it to the point where Anet lost a lot of customers. I bet that a lot of GW players (or Guru-ers) wouldn't want that. Anet needs to be very cautious about it, but are more or less set on doing something. |
Regulus X
I can't w8 til they desecrate all farming builds, that way everyone can rage because they'd rather not pug with the "shortbus" players. Either that, or they'll share their drops with their heroes and henchmen because at least h/h listen to called targets, don't overextend, have an elite skill, don't talk back, over-aggro, [and the list goes on & on & on &..].
Fril Estelin
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
If someone leaves because his ONE skill got nerfed, in a game where you can have as many builds as possible, then he obviously deserved it.
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Elrahir
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Originally Posted by Freeze_XJ
There will always be whining when something gets hit. That's life. I'm a 600, and i like it. Will i scream when it (finally) gets nerfed? Nope. I _know_ it is overpowered, I _know_ I should be healing my *ss off when walking in CoF HM. That it is easier not to, and just equip zero armor and some skills, well... try blaming me for that
I for one would be happy if the old balanced teams were returning, back to the time when a tank had to know that more than 3 creeps would mean aggro breaking, and when a monk knew that standing in a meteor shower wasn't smart (the thing has 3 seconds casting time, and then you still have a second to run once you see the stuff falling down. Please don't tell me you didn't see that coming). So, Anet, please put us back 3 years in time, back to when you needed skill to play. Even if that hurts me. Thank you *bows* |
JimmyNeutron
Make it so when SF is up, only Assassin skills are the only skills that is allowed. This will limit most dungeon runs and though it won't stop Perma, will slow down the kill considerably.
MMSDome
Give SF the smiters boon nerf.
Make people use creativity again and come up with a new build.
Make people use creativity again and come up with a new build.
Jae Onasi
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Originally Posted by Arduin
Increase droprate-> better chance at the end-chest -> more rare skinned weapons in the game -> supply increases -> prices go down -> people complain about not being able to make money because drops are shitty
Or people could care less about virtual wealth. |
My problem is I started playing the game only 2 years ago, when the game was already on the downhill slide from its heyday. My entire alliance is lucky if we have more than 4 active people on at one time now--most have moved on to other games like LOTRO or such. It's hard to find friends who are online to do UW or FoW runs for ecto and obsidian, so, frequently, I do things solo or farm certain areas to make some gold instead.
mrvrod
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Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
I don't care about being wealthy. However, there are a few things I'd like to have in game--obsidian armor for just one of my many alts, a mini-Gwen for just one of them, one set of chaos gloves, some destroyer weapons for my hall, that kind of thing. I don't need to equip all 18 alts with the fancy schmancy stuff, I simply would like some nicer things for just 1.
My problem is I started playing the game only 2 years ago, when the game was already on the downhill slide from its heyday. My entire alliance is lucky if we have more than 4 active people on at one time now--most have moved on to other games like LOTRO or such. It's hard to find friends who are online to do UW or FoW runs for ecto and obsidian, so, frequently, I do things solo or farm certain areas to make some gold instead. |
I Am Ze Man
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Originally Posted by Barrage
By the way. I do love how anet is buffing warrior which is totally viable in pve with 100-blades and other builds, but not buffing paragon(as to my knowledge). A class that relies on ONE build which totally relies on PVE skills is disgraceful. MANY para skills have potential but can't even warrant a use in the bar (some being elites). The Mesmer class also needs a few buffs in PvE. These two classes are easily the lowest represented in Pve, give them some options (rework some para skills, give mesmers AOE damage+Aoe interupt).
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btw this dude is the smartest i've ever seen on guru... cause nobody likes mesmers or paras (unless they are running imbagon) in pve.
I'm also not gonna QQ about SF cause eventually ectos will rise to the price where the newest SC is worth it... until then theres a few creative farming builds i can rely on until the new SC comes out...
My third thought is that speed clears, until SF is nerfed, are just as viable as before.. Dayway, which after improvements, a fast team is 25min.. old Sc was 15 or so min.
i don't agree that the old uwsc took 7min. and i obviously doon't agree with a new 70min sf team. now people are getting maybe 45min guild groups compared to a previous 15-20.. who is anet kidding? dhuum just made oldschool teams get rolled compared to a record (now) 22min SC. thats as fast as the old PuG's, so basically SF didn't take a hit and its counter.. did.
To wrap up my sc thoughts, Dhuum did nothing and the nerf of SF will lead to a sc but will be equally profiable because ectos will rise extremely, putting the economy where it was before and the new sc will be just as profitable...
Both sides win if SF is nerfed although i'm not looking forward to it.
ANTI-SFers win because.. SF is nerfed.
PRO-SFers win because:
a. ectos rise a lot
b. new sc is invented to earn now more valuable ectos making new sc as good as b4.
Turbo Ginsu
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
If someone leaves because his ONE skill got nerfed, in a game where you can have as many builds as possible, then he obviously deserved it.
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I'd go so far as to link to Wikipedia definitions of fanboy and elitist, but there's no need. Your attitude shows all that's needed to get an understanding of both.
Opinions...
Xenex Xclame
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Originally Posted by Turbo Ginsu
Yes. And if thousands leave because of it, they probably deserved it too. And I'm sure that will have no effect whatsoever on the sales of GW2. I'm sure aNet who make GW and make money from making GW think exactly the same way you do.
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I can be pretty confident when i say.I bet that the ammount of people that would buy GW2 because its balanced is greater then the ammount of people Anet would miss because those people wanted a unbalanced game.
Turbo Ginsu
Guild Wars can only be an unbalanced game. Apart from people who are outright hacking, aNet would obviously prefer everyone's money, regardless of their agenda or ideals. Saying that a company who is selling a product won't miss a percentage of their customer base, is completely naive.
Furthermore, unless you are one of the coders working on GW2, who are you to say that it will be balanced, or won't? That's just speculation. Even if you were one of the coders, do you think anyone would believe you if you told them GW2 will be balanced? Given the fact that there isn't even a semblance of balance in GW1, how many people do you think believe for even a second that GW2 will be?
People are not going to buy GW2 because it's balanced, people are going to buy GW2 because it's GW2, but if the way they enjoy playing GW1 is deliberately taken from them, merely to appease the elitists, do you think they're going to be eager to pay a new wad of cash so they can cop a repeat performance?
I don't think so.
Personally, I have a perma, I use it to farm from time to time, I also have a 600, which I use from time to time. I do not, however, live on either. They are just a quick and efficient way to make the $$ I need to fulfil my own agenda and get back to playing missions and other stuff that I find fun. Regardless of whether my agenda be the same or different to yours, it is still my right, as I paid for GW just like you or anyone else.
Furthermore, unless you are one of the coders working on GW2, who are you to say that it will be balanced, or won't? That's just speculation. Even if you were one of the coders, do you think anyone would believe you if you told them GW2 will be balanced? Given the fact that there isn't even a semblance of balance in GW1, how many people do you think believe for even a second that GW2 will be?
People are not going to buy GW2 because it's balanced, people are going to buy GW2 because it's GW2, but if the way they enjoy playing GW1 is deliberately taken from them, merely to appease the elitists, do you think they're going to be eager to pay a new wad of cash so they can cop a repeat performance?
I don't think so.
Personally, I have a perma, I use it to farm from time to time, I also have a 600, which I use from time to time. I do not, however, live on either. They are just a quick and efficient way to make the $$ I need to fulfil my own agenda and get back to playing missions and other stuff that I find fun. Regardless of whether my agenda be the same or different to yours, it is still my right, as I paid for GW just like you or anyone else.
Xenex Xclame
Ill reply to the part that matters,Do you think they will miss the 2% that leaves because their one skill was nerfed when they just gained 60% new players,of course they will care,that more money to be gained,Do you think they will do something to make the new 60% to leave just to get back the 2% that left?
OF COURSE NOT
OF COURSE NOT