Next Skill Balance
Gun Pierson
On a side note, if you want a real challenge that involves skill, try Warcraft3 or top FPS, not GW's PvE lolz! It's not made for that.
MMSDome
Snow's post was spot on for the most part and I applaud him for that but he did miss one big detail and I will try to touch base on it in a way that I normally do not, without rage.
When you buy a video game you buy it for one reason, TO HAVE FUN! Once you lose the aspect of fun when playing a game then what is the point? I used to care about ursan, shadow form, bots and whatever corrupted the game until I stopped and realized, who cares?
I am going to play the game how I want and if you want to use shadow form and steam roll everything and grind repeatedly and call that "fun" go for it! To be it seems a bit insipid but hey we all have different tastes in what we consider fun.
I can go on and spout off how I like doing my own thing and that I don't mind it being the same but I would be lying to myself. If A-Net never "nerfed" and changed skills we would still be in 2005 (I believe I have said this before) and there would be a much smaller player base than their is currently because it would have gotten boring a long time ago. So to everyone that is worried about not being able to steamroll every elite mission look at it this way: A-Net is doing you a favor by keeping the game fresh and giving you something new to do, they are keeping Guild Wars FUN!
Don't feel like you need elite armors and all the cool gear and just do what you want to do, not much up to what the other guy does because who cares? It's a video game and you are playing it to have fun, not to be better or cooler than the other dork sitting behind his computer.
When you buy a video game you buy it for one reason, TO HAVE FUN! Once you lose the aspect of fun when playing a game then what is the point? I used to care about ursan, shadow form, bots and whatever corrupted the game until I stopped and realized, who cares?
I am going to play the game how I want and if you want to use shadow form and steam roll everything and grind repeatedly and call that "fun" go for it! To be it seems a bit insipid but hey we all have different tastes in what we consider fun.
I can go on and spout off how I like doing my own thing and that I don't mind it being the same but I would be lying to myself. If A-Net never "nerfed" and changed skills we would still be in 2005 (I believe I have said this before) and there would be a much smaller player base than their is currently because it would have gotten boring a long time ago. So to everyone that is worried about not being able to steamroll every elite mission look at it this way: A-Net is doing you a favor by keeping the game fresh and giving you something new to do, they are keeping Guild Wars FUN!
Don't feel like you need elite armors and all the cool gear and just do what you want to do, not much up to what the other guy does because who cares? It's a video game and you are playing it to have fun, not to be better or cooler than the other dork sitting behind his computer.
lishi
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| HOW ONE PERSON PLAYS PvE DOES NOT AFFECT HOW ANOTHER PERSON PLAYS PvE |
Clearly you and who keep the game updated don't think the same thing.
Fril Estelin
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Originally Posted by MMSDome
I will try to touch base on it in a way that I normally do not, without rage.
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. I agree with you, Anet is not trying to catter for ex-players but current ones, who will never, ever go through the gameplay phases most "elder" players have (not only having great players around to PUG with but also the meta before Factions and NF). It's really a shame that balance couldn't be sustained and CA was introduced so late, but given the mansize of LT it's actually quite a feat. I believe that the work of TK will pay off "fairly" quickly and 2010 is going to be VERY different for PvP.
The Mad Addict
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Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats
HM was fun for awhile...but it's obviously just fake difficulty, it just makes monsters stronger, faster, and have more health.
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Yelling @ Cats
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
On a side note, if you want a real challenge that involves skill, try Warcraft3 or top FPS, not GW's PvE lolz! It's not made for that.
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mrvrod
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Originally Posted by lishi
you might want play another game then.
Clearly you and who keep the game updated don't think the same thing. |
Anet has stated they want to nerf SF because it blows through areas quicker than they had ever planned it to.
It's like getting caught speeding and telling the cop: "well I had to speed, everyone else was. I wasn't going to be the only one going 55mph!"
Use it, see how well it works for you.
The Mad Addict
I propose that someone makes a guild where the people in it only use Proph skills, don't use any pve only skills, no heroes, and only pug with each other or use henchies to complete whatever they want (only doing proph would be pretty lame) and everyone can only use proph armor/weapon skins and.......mm..f..f they play in Europe Russian District 9 so that they don't have contact with other players that may try to convert them back to dillholes and they can only use core classes etc.
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats
Have done both...but they don't really compare to an RPG. They are different genres, you can't really say "well go play X" when X is a completely different game. You could say WoW...where guilds spend months gearing up to raid the current hardest place.
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Wuhy
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Originally Posted by mrvrod
Then you're playing for the wrong reasons. Obsidian armor or the latest rare weapon does't prove you're good at the game. With gold sellers, the duping exploit, and many other "bugs" found and taken advantage of over the years, I'd guess at least half of the "leet" e-peen crowd did little or nothing to "earn" what they have.
And that doesn't bother me in the least. If it makes them happy to have it no matter how they got it, good for them. If it makes you feel better knowing you earned it rather than bought it, good for you. If I run around with different armor and weapons other than the newest "wow" item just because it's what I like, good for me. What's not good, for anyone here, is when people worry themselves over how someone else is playing, what someone else is getting/earning/not-earning, how someone else defines "fun" in this game. I'll keep saying this over and over even though it doesn't seem to get through to anyone here. HOW ONE PERSON PLAYS PvE DOES NOT AFFECT HOW ANOTHER PERSON PLAYS PvE. I keep referring to SF because that is the latest build of contention, but these statements should really be: 'insert build here' has no affect on your gameplay. 'insert build here' cannot make you stop playing one profession and start playing another. 'insert build here' cannot keep you from finding at least one other person to group with so you can go anywhere in the game and round out your team with heroes. 'insert build here' cannot make your 'insert item here' any more or less valuable that it already is (it's worthless, it's pixels, get over it). |
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by Wuhy
wrong. I want to play balanced uw with a full party. I can't.
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I don't see why the rest of the playerbase needs to adjust to you because you can't make friends or depend on pugs.
lishi
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Originally Posted by mrvrod
Really? You must know something I don't then. Care to show me the statement from some Anet Dev that says 'insert build here' forces others to play the game differently? Good luck with that.
Anet has stated they want to nerf SF because it blows through areas quicker than they had ever planned it to. |
Because they are bad boys and don't like people dropping ecto?
Or because they think that overpowered build affect other people in a way or another?
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It's like getting caught speeding and telling the cop: "well I had to speed, everyone else was. I wasn't going to be the only one going 55mph!" Use it, see how well it works for you. |
No one should go over 55mph, so nerf shadow form.
mrvrod
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Originally Posted by lishi
And why do you think they make all those nerfs?
Because they are bad boys and don't like people dropping ecto? Or because they think that overpowered build affect other people in a way or another? |
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Originally Posted by lishi
Thanks for the assist here.
No one should go over 55mph, so nerf shadow form. |
Mcsnake85
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
Networking for the win. Find a suiting guild, surround yourself with people who like to play like you. If you have a second account, you can play balanced with 6 heroes and you won't even need a real human player.
I don't see why the rest of the playerbase needs to adjust to you because you can't make friends or depend on pugs. |
Sometimes i prefer not do this, really , but i i want play i must follow that the other guys use...you not forced to make a perma, you can use 100b/UA/EoE or E/Mo for UW for example or sure a perma too if you have one..whats the problem on this?you just need a click and change char, do your run..get your chest, and if you not enjoy in it change char and dont go again or Join in a random team (i do this sometimes).
PPL make all hard when its not hard, you just need 8 skills for each char and you can do FoW/UW..
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by lishi
Thanks for the assist here.
No one should go over 55mph, so nerf shadow form. |
lishi
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Originally Posted by mrvrod
So you're clairvoyant? You know how they think? Wow, I'm impressed.
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| No one eh? No police, no firetrucks, no ambulances? Nah, I agree, since you've decreed it, NO ONE shall ever go more than 55mph (even when the speed limit is 65mph)! I am so glad the real world does not work the way you want GW to. |
And i'm totally cool if a GM can complete underworld in 5 minute.
mrvrod
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Originally Posted by lishi
What i can say, i must be be a genius! or simply you refuse too see what everyone can see.
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Originally Posted by lishi
Wait, are we comparing farmer with police, ambulance and other people who save lives?
And i'm totally cool if a GM can complete underworld in 5 minute. |
Try providing even one shred of evidence that 'insert build here' forces anyone to play PvE differently than they want to. You cannot do that. That is an indefensible statement and you know it, or else you would have proven me wrong.
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Originally Posted by Artisan Archer
Your argument fails.
The fact any idiot can beat the game makes beating the game meaningless, no matter how you did it. example; "Hello we made this complex game with over 1000 skills and 10 professions, but just use these 8 skills and everything will go by itself ok?" |
lishi
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Originally Posted by mrvrod
So you know what's best for everyone, and now you speak for everyone. Enjoy that power you think you have.
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But apparently it coincide with what those who have the power to make change think. So yea
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Um, well we compared SF to speed limits, so yeah why not? Are these comparisons only valid when you think they work for you? |
Police, ambulance etc work outside of normal rules, you might say like GM, admin etc.
Player follow the normal rules.
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| Try providing even one shred of evidence that 'insert build here' forces anyone to play PvE differently than they want to. You cannot do that. That is an indefensible statement and you know it, or else you would have proven me wrong. |
but i quoted this statement
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| HOW ONE PERSON PLAYS PvE DOES NOT AFFECT HOW ANOTHER PERSON PLAYS PvE |
Like or not the market is a vital part of Guild wars just watch how many farmer there are around.
mrvrod
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Originally Posted by lishi
Ok, lets forget the whole issue about lives or not.
Police, ambulance etc work outside of normal rules, you might say like GM, admin etc. Player follow the normal rules. Sure, if i'm willing i can play the inferior option and no one will stop me. (Other the lack of people) but i quoted this statement And that is complete BS. Like or not the market is a vital part of Guild wars just watch how many farmer there are around. |
BTW. If you really want that rare skin, and can't afford it, take a walk on the wild side, build a perma and farm it for yourself. Based on some of the comments I've read, it's super easy, you can solo it, and you'll be uber rich overnight! It's the iWin button!
lishi
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Originally Posted by mrvrod
That statement is still valid. How one person plays PvE does NOT affect how another person plays PvE. Talk about the in-game economy all you want. 1. The economy is not "playing" PvE. 2. Regardless of how many pixels of one name you need to trade to get pixels of another name, they are all worthless pixels! If you can't buy the newest rare skin, you may be bummed, but your play is in no way hobbled.
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But you play the game for the economy, all the farmer out there play the game because they want be active in the economy
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BTW. If you really want that rare skin, and can't afford it, take a walk on the wild side, build a perma and farm it for yourself. Based on some of the comments I've read, it's super easy, you can solo it, and you'll be uber rich overnight! It's the iWin button! |
Plus what you say don't make any sense, if i want to buy a rare skin I'm happy farmer over farm it so i can buy it for cheap.
Aldric
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Originally Posted by The Mad Addict
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HM was a wasted opportunity.
Artisan Archer
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Originally Posted by mrvrod
So? What on earth is your point? I could care less if you feel beating the game is meaningless. I was pointing out that everyone should be able to play the game in whatever way they choose. My point was that too many people worry about how everybody else does things or acquires things instead of just having fun. If you can't get fun/meaning out of the game, I'd suggest you find another game.
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If you want easy wtfpwn stuff I suggest you go play another game, instead of trying to make the one you're playing easier.
Yelling @ Cats
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
Well exactly, RPG's are not about skill, but about character progression and cool loot and content. In wow they raid that content to get the latest über gear, aka farm.
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Which is what GW's role would be. GW never has been about getting phat lewtz. I mean, some people have convinced themselves that they really need to get the ugly ass chaos gloves, but really, you don't. The game itself should be exciting, you shouldn't have to gimp yourself just to get a challenge, it completely kills any immersion. The fact that taking anything besides SF is always the inferior choice is just flat out stupid.
Redvex
Seriously...any rumors about date of skills update?
They say every two months but four months as been passed and we got.....NOTHING!
They say every two months but four months as been passed and we got.....NOTHING!
Xenex Xclame
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Originally Posted by Redvex
Seriously...any rumors about date of skills update?
They say every two months but four months as been passed and we got.....NOTHING! |
Symeon
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Originally Posted by Coverticus
Or are the MODs reading this with popcorn and coffee to hand?
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fenix
Uhhh...no...no....
I'm not the cleaning lady, although it seems I've had to do a lot of cleaning in this thread. If you keep it up, I'll become strangely ban-happy, and you'll become strangely not-posting-on-guru-any-more-happy.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame
April, they are busy with canthan new year at the moment,new quests and changes to certain places that are to remain a surprise untill revealed are being worked on, the team are focusing their attention on that.
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Steps_Descending
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
^ this is a joke right? Please, please tell me it is.
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reaper with no name
And then, the April fool's day update would be...The update we are being promised right now.
Anet: Hah! You actually thought we'd do it, didn't you?
SF (ab)users:
Non-SF (ab)users:
At that point, the internet would break in half from the rage.
Anet: Hah! You actually thought we'd do it, didn't you?
SF (ab)users:
Non-SF (ab)users:
At that point, the internet would break in half from the rage.
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by The Mad Addict
Isn't that what makes something more difficult? That's like the definition.
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It makes fights LONGER. Not harder. Enemies hitting harder? You already have Protective Spirit. Faster? Even easier to abuse Spoil Victor/Spiteful Spirit. More health? Well, you'll have to survive for 2-3 seconds more while you WTFPWN the mobs with overpowered skills.
No, more difficult means the monsters are smarter, have better builds (dual professions) and... are more on the player's level. Or even higher.
The Mad Addict
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
Hahahahahah no.
It makes fights LONGER. Not harder. Enemies hitting harder? You already have Protective Spirit. Faster? Even easier to abuse Spoil Victor/Spiteful Spirit. More health? Well, you'll have to survive for 2-3 seconds more while you WTFPWN the mobs with overpowered skills. No, more difficult means the monsters are smarter, have better builds (dual professions) and... are more on the player's level. Or even higher. |
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by The Mad Addict
I restrict myself only to Core/Proph skills and no pve only skills.
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That kind of proves "fake dificulty": if you do not have to do your best, make use of your best tools and can still win even with some made up rule, then it is clear that just making some numbers bigger does not make mobs more dificult.
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by The Mad Addict
I restrict myself only to Core/Proph skills and no pve only skills.
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And ignore the fact that I bought 3+1 campaigns, while I have to use only one of them so I don't fall asleep.
ChaoticCoyote
I quit playing Guild Wars around the time of EotN and the ridiculous PvE skills. Hard mode had already been a disappointment -- I, like others in this thread, wanted to see better AI and more complex encounters, when all we got from HM was... well, more of the same, but tedious.
The inability/unwillingness to restore accounts and characters, even when damage was caused by ANet's mistakes, was simply the end of the game for me.
Give me a game that scales with my character, where I can solo or group, where the aim is the enjoy playing over endless grinding using inbalanced skills. Then I'll buy GW2.
The inability/unwillingness to restore accounts and characters, even when damage was caused by ANet's mistakes, was simply the end of the game for me.
Give me a game that scales with my character, where I can solo or group, where the aim is the enjoy playing over endless grinding using inbalanced skills. Then I'll buy GW2.
MisterB
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Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote
Give me a game that scales with my character, where I can solo or group, where the aim is the enjoy playing over endless grinding using inbalanced skills. Then I'll buy GW2.
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Ariovist Lynxkind
I have to say, reading a lot of this thread has given me a bit of faith in GW2. I know, this may seem odd in a thread based around a GW1 skill balance, but let me explain part of my twisted logic: mechanics
GW2 is being built from scratch, unlike NF and EotN being placed on top of existing architecture, and there are some interesting counter-concepts to nerfing that have have been thrown around here. Random spawns, mixing up groups a bit, altering the AI and adding secondary professions for HM monsters etc. which seem interesting, and no doubt some on the GW2 crew would see this.
Thing is though, the majority of Anet staff are working on GW2, leaving a limited amount of people to work on this current game. Also, it comes down to mechanics. Anet started making GW2 for a reason: they just couldn't put things into the current game they wanted because of mechanics. And to be honest, a lot of the ideas around here of what to do instead of nerfing SF and 600/smite probably are among those that couldn't be implemented too. In the end, it is easier for them to nerf those two than it is to change the entire game to suit them, not to mention a bit more friendlier to the other players too.
Knowing this game, it wont take long before other farm builds pop up. You may not get the SCs that you used to, and it may take a bit longer to farm, but it will happen. As for the the concerns about ectos, I belive they will drop a bit more, simply due to the game mechanic that kicks in when an area is over-farmed
GW2 is being built from scratch, unlike NF and EotN being placed on top of existing architecture, and there are some interesting counter-concepts to nerfing that have have been thrown around here. Random spawns, mixing up groups a bit, altering the AI and adding secondary professions for HM monsters etc. which seem interesting, and no doubt some on the GW2 crew would see this.
Thing is though, the majority of Anet staff are working on GW2, leaving a limited amount of people to work on this current game. Also, it comes down to mechanics. Anet started making GW2 for a reason: they just couldn't put things into the current game they wanted because of mechanics. And to be honest, a lot of the ideas around here of what to do instead of nerfing SF and 600/smite probably are among those that couldn't be implemented too. In the end, it is easier for them to nerf those two than it is to change the entire game to suit them, not to mention a bit more friendlier to the other players too.
Knowing this game, it wont take long before other farm builds pop up. You may not get the SCs that you used to, and it may take a bit longer to farm, but it will happen. As for the the concerns about ectos, I belive they will drop a bit more, simply due to the game mechanic that kicks in when an area is over-farmed
Yawgmoth
I wouldn't expect any skill update this month, they must be working hard on "new content" for the Canthan New Year festival, just like they did for Wintersday. More costumes for $$$ are more important than playable content and quality skill updates, right?
coil
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Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
I wouldn't expect any skill update this month, they must be working hard on "new content" for the Canthan New Year festival, just like they did for Wintersday. More costumes for $$$ are more important than playable content and quality skill updates, right?
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reaper with no name
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Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
I wouldn't expect any skill update this month, they must be working hard on "new content" for the Canthan New Year festival, just like they did for Wintersday. More costumes for $$$ are more important than playable content and quality skill updates, right?
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That said, there are still other things that take priority over game balancing and new content (primarily bug fixing). Behind-the-scenes stuff like this probably takes up most of the Live Team's time, which would explain why most skill updates are poorly thought-out.