Next Skill Balance - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

13 Jan 2010 at 02:44 - 921

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miscreant_Moon

Because it's not there. We know they were working on lag issues, security issues. How much that involves the Live Team we don't know. I would assume their IT team would handle these issues. Maybe their teams are set up differently though. We have the "list of skills" they were discussing from last month on her journal:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...naobra/Journal

But since nothing happened with that we don't really have anything now do we? Please, I would really like to be informed. Tell me what the Live Team is addressing and working on right now? It's a general question for anyone. Maybe all their focus is on the Test Krewe? Why all the discussion? I don't understand your hostility now YunSooJin, in an ironic turn of events.

Whaddya want them to do? Make stuff up to make you feel better? Why don't you just imagine they're doing other stuff :s Maybe then you'd feel more comfortable?

Any hostility you feel is entirely of your own imagination. I would suggest re-reading the posts for hostility.. if you think I'm being hostile I apologize on your behalf for feeling that way.. lawlz.

You might as well ask Regina to compile a list of things everyone's done everyday and have them report to you directly, daily. I'm sure of ANET is busy holding everyone's hand stuff would get done even faster than they are now ~_~.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thamior Shamus

the first post in this thread....

Thanks Thamior, I'm sure anyone who is wondering what ANET is up to will be relieved to know what ANET is up to.

Miscreant_Moon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2009

Somewhere in Ascalon

Me/E

13 Jan 2010 at 02:48 - 922

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

You might as well ask Regina to compile a list of things everyone's done everyday and have them report to you directly, daily. I'm sure of ANET is busy holding everyone's hand stuff would get done even faster than they are now ~_~.

Right... no hostility at all. Anyway, Regina has indeed tried to inform us what goes on. You seem to be intentionally misinterpreting what I've said. She does give updates. I'm simply asking for an update now. Which would have made her announcement perhaps a bit better and the community more responsive to it.

Browse her journal and you will see updates.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:..._December_2009

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

13 Jan 2010 at 03:21 - 923

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miscreant_Moon

Right... no hostility at all. Anyway, Regina has indeed tried to inform us what goes on. You seem to be intentionally misinterpreting what I've said. She does give updates. I'm simply asking for an update now. Which would have made her announcement perhaps a bit better and the community more responsive to it.

Browse her journal and you will see updates.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:..._December_2009

Asking for updates does not actually do anything except burden ANET with another useless request. When ANET has something worth reporting, they will update us, unless you prefer to just hear 'we are still working on it'.

Rampage

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

13 Jan 2010 at 03:51 - 924

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

So this thread is pretty much this right?

Anet doesn't change something, they're bad

Anet changes something, but it isn't what 60% of the community wanted so them 60% whine about it, obviously Anet are bad

Anet thinks, lets invite a small portion of the GW populace to help us improve balances in the communitys mind, but adding extra time to the process. Anet are bad

Anet disbands the test krewe and goes back to the old way of doing things. Anet are bad.

It's a lose/lose for anet with 99% of this thread. I would also like to note that in all the time gw has been out, not once has it ever been balanced. This is because true balance in GW is imprcatical, and impossible. And if by magic it was achieved, 100% of the playerbase (no exceptions) would complain about how shit gw is and how they have to run the same crap as everyone else. And how things were so much better when one team build wasn't exactly the same as another team build.

tl;dr Shut up, and stop complaining.

The skill balance is what, 6 months late? It's probably going to be at least another 2 months for it to come out, too. Shut up, stop being a raging fanboy, and understand when a company is being shitty.

Regina, we understand the whole test krewe thing is new to you guys, and you've been busy. If the update was supposed to come out in December I'd understand why it would be late, but that's not the case. It's about half a year late. Stop making excuses, the live team clearly can't handle Guild Wars.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

13 Jan 2010 at 03:53 - 925

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

the old way of doing things

Updates every few days? Yeah, I miss that too.

mrvrod

Guest01

Join Date: Jul 2006

13 Jan 2010 at 03:54 - 926

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Asking for updates does not actually do anything except burden ANET with another useless request. When ANET has something worth reporting, they will update us, unless you prefer to just hear 'we are still working on it'.

I for one actually would be happy with a "still working on it" "xx% there" or something along those lines. I've been on the anti-nerf side of these threads since day one, but what I seem to comprehend from both sides, which you seem to be missing, is that these long intervals where we're spoonfed bullsh*t or told absolutely nothing (XTH anyone?), we're made to feel like we're being strung along while nothing is done. Appease the community till GW2 is out, then they'll forget all about this!

Keep us in the loop! Especially when things are going bad. Let us know we still matter and you'll get a lot more sympathy and leeway than when we're treated as inconsequential.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

13 Jan 2010 at 04:26 - 927

Quote:

Originally Posted by yunsoojin

frankly, i think it would be more ridiculous to assume anet employees are getting away with doing absolutely nothing for over half a year and are still getting paid etc/ not getting fired. But that's just me. If your complaint is about visible progress.. Well boo hoo? What do you want them to do? Upload a video of them coding? -.-

3drealms. sup.

headlesshobbs

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

13 Jan 2010 at 04:43 - 928

I see that people are so eager to call foul on this. Considering the "krew" is new to this, it's more appropriate to wait and see what the final results will turn out to be, unless you still want to see the devs do the usual nerfs you guys keep crying over.

Giga_Gaia

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Travelling around Tyria, Cantha, and Elona

P/W

13 Jan 2010 at 04:58 - 929

An update on just what the hell they've been working on, what their priorities are, and how far they got would be very very nice right about now.

End

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Rubbing Potassium on water fountains.

LF guild that teaches MTSC (did it long ago before gw2 came out and I quit...but I barely remember)

N/A

13 Jan 2010 at 05:10 - 930

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

An update on just what the hell they've been working on, what their priorities are, and how far they got would be very very nice right about now.

Not to mention updates on what roadblocks they are hitting that are slowing things down...like those costumes were a huge roadblock in their plans...maybe if we pay 10$ we can get an update about whats happening...

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/

13 Jan 2010 at 10:13 - 931

Generally in software development, adding more resource (Test Krewe) speeds things up not slows them down.

Redvex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

R/

13 Jan 2010 at 10:39 - 932

I hope at least that when they come they are a great wide skill balance.

Silmar Alech

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2009

Europe

Tom Son [TS]

E/

13 Jan 2010 at 10:51 - 933

It occurs to me that there was in fact a balance update one month ago. The snow fighting skills were updated in the December 17 update. Without this, the snowball ATs would probably been dead after one or two days in the event.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

13 Jan 2010 at 11:08 - 934

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmar Alech

It occurs to me that there was in fact a balance update one month ago. The snow fighting skills were updated in the December 17 update. Without this, the snowball ATs would probably been dead after one or two days in the event.

They weren't dead last year. Also, the Avalanche/Yellow Snow balance hardly did much - Dwayna still won roughly 90% of single elimination matches in ATs.

Saph

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2009

R/

13 Jan 2010 at 12:20 - 935

Reading through the first 20 or so pages of this thread, I've noticed one reoccurring theory. Farming makes you evil/stupid/etc. Why? I'd rather farm for my q9 eaglecrest axe than pay out the ass for it, so that makes me stupid?

I truly don't understand the mass anti-farm movement that's going on.

Is it the way a majority of people farm (SF, 600/smite), or is it farming in general?

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

13 Jan 2010 at 12:47 - 936

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saph

I truly don't understand the mass anti-farm movement that's going on.

Is it the way a majority of people farm (SF, 600/smite), or is it farming in general?

Well, there are several types of players who have an intrest in the fact that (solo) farming gets nerfed:

1) The pug players, who will think that the farmers will team up with them. That's never gonna happen imo.

2) The players who don't farm. Some of them want a nerf out of envie.

3) The players who geniunely strive for a more 'balanced' environment in PvE, which can't be done without a massive overhaul of PvE anyway.

4) The powertraders, the scum of GW I might add, as they get their wealth on the back of others, while a farmer actually works for his wealth. The less wealth/rare skins that are generated, the more valuable and rare their stock becomes.

5) Some of the players who already have gwamm and full HoM for obvious reasons.

We should also take into account that the above groups are well represented on the forums as shown in this thread and others. Simply because this is the place to be if you want to QQ.

Redvex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

R/

13 Jan 2010 at 12:50 - 937

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saph

Reading through the first 20 or so pages of this thread, I've noticed one reoccurring theory. Farming makes you evil/stupid/etc. Why? I'd rather farm for my q9 eaglecrest axe than pay out the ass for it, so that makes me stupid?

I truly don't understand the mass anti-farm movement that's going on.

Is it the way a majority of people farm (SF, 600/smite), or is it farming in general?

I'm not contrary to farming neither in favor of farming. I simply would like to see new build for a more variety game.

AexIndex

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2009

13 Jan 2010 at 12:53 - 938

We need meta change!!! This one is getting boring!

Saph

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2009

R/

13 Jan 2010 at 13:00 - 939

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Well, there are several type of players who have an intrest in the fact that (solo) farming gets nerfed......

Ah, thank you for simplifying that for me.

Phineas

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

UK

13 Jan 2010 at 13:21 - 940

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

Not to mention updates on what roadblocks they are hitting that are slowing things down...like those costumes were a huge roadblock in their plans...maybe if we pay 10$ we can get an update about whats happening...

Exactly... until we are actually paying the salaries of the Live Team then they are not duty bound to tell us anything.

When there is news of a public nature... we will hear it.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

13 Jan 2010 at 13:49 - 941

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Well, there are several types of players who have an intrest in the fact that (solo) farming gets nerfed:

1) The pug players, who will think that the farmers will team up with them. That's never gonna happen imo.

I don't pug. I play with my (real life) friends and H/H when I need to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

2) The players who don't farm. Some of them want a nerf out of envie.

I don't farm that much. Mostly easy stuff like VwK farm in a couple of very easy farming spots. Not much to envy, since I could get anything I wanted with a little effort, which is the actual thrill in getting anything to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

3) The players who geniunely strive for a more 'balanced' environment in PvE, which can't be done without a massive overhaul of PvE anyway.

I do. And I also agree that some basic mechanics simply don't work and favor those imbalances. Yet that's no reason to me for absurd stuff like permaSF to exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

4) The powertraders, the scum of GW I might add, as they get their wealth on the back of others, while a farmer actually works for his wealth. The less wealth/rare skins that are generated, the more valuable and rare their stock becomes.

I'm no powertrader. I don't even know the basic principles of powertrading. Not that I care, actually. I play for fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

5) Some of the players who already have gwamm and full HoM for obvious reasons.

My warrior is GWAMM and has a (almost, actually) full HoM. That was achieved with that little farming mentioned above. I don't have time to spend to play solo (and to farm), since I really enjoy playing with my friends and, because of my job, I can play a couple of hours in the evening at best. It took 4 years to get GWAMM. I'm happy with it. As I said, the chase is better than the catch to me.

So, I'm in none of the above categories. How's that I care about absurd abuses and degenerated solo farming anyway?

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/

13 Jan 2010 at 14:14 - 942

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

3) The players who geniunely strive for a more 'balanced' environment in PvE, which can't be done without a massive overhaul of PvE anyway.

Perfect balance isn't achievable, but more balanced certainly is. Broken Form is truely broken and you know it.

What would your reaction be to the following (PVE of course) skill?

Mega Farm (elite): All foes in the zone are killed and drop double. All drops shadow step to your location.

Would you argue that it is fine because:
a) it doesn't affect anyone else
b) it's only PvE
c) balance isn't possible anyway
d) if you don't like it don't use it
e) you will quit the game if they nerf it
f) people who don't like it are selfish/gwamm/farmers w/e
g) if they nerf it, obby flesh would just replace it
h) all of the above

Because this is exactly the pro-broken form argument. Go figure!

reaper with no name

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2009

FaZ

D/

13 Jan 2010 at 14:17 - 943

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saph

Reading through the first 20 or so pages of this thread, I've noticed one reoccurring theory. Farming makes you evil/stupid/etc. Why? I'd rather farm for my q9 eaglecrest axe than pay out the ass for it, so that makes me stupid?

I truly don't understand the mass anti-farm movement that's going on.

Is it the way a majority of people farm (SF, 600/smite), or is it farming in general?

Contrary to popular belief, SF and 600/Smite are not farming builds. Farming builds are fundamentally limited in scope to a couple of areas. Take them out of those areas, and they fail. A good example of a farming build is 55. It works in certain areas because the monsters in them do not possess the degen/life steal/enchantment stripping that shuts it down. But try to use a 55 in general PvE and it will fail.

SF and 600/Smite don't do that. They can steamroll over the vast majority of PvE when used correctly. For that reason, these builds can be used to farm and whatnot. But they are not "farming" builds. They are something beyond that.

There are two distinct camps in opposition to SF.

One hates it for the reasons I described above (with no actual hatred of farming itself; you won't hear these guys griping about 55, for example).

Then there's the other one which either does hate farming, or hates the farming of ectos. The reason for the latter is because it inflates the economy. This vastly increases the gap in wealth between those who farm and those who do not farm, while simultaneously decreasing the value of all the items in the game. This reduces the wealth people get from selling the rare items they find through both farming and standard play. Basically, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Point is, these are two very different groups and it's important not to get them confused.

EDIT: Oh, yeah, there's one other group who wants SF nerfed: people with tons of ectos who are hoping a SF nerf will drive prices into the stratosphere and inflate their wealth.

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

13 Jan 2010 at 14:26 - 944

So when is the update coming after all? This week?

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

13 Jan 2010 at 15:40 - 945

If you know that the holiday break was coming Regina, why post just before it that a skill balance was coming? Was it to get people excited for the costumes you were releasing? You guys had to have known you weren't going to release the update at all. It's really frustrating to say the least. I would rather have an honest announcement as to what's going on rather than some company line of garbage that is merely a canned response to appease the masses. I am seriously put off by this and for good reason.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

13 Jan 2010 at 15:42 - 946

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

So when is the update coming after all? This week?

Regina hasn't said. The best we can probably hope for is Mid-February.

I think Jette over at GWW (who is on the Test Krewe) helped sum up some of the issues that the TK and the GWLT are having:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jette

Allow me to crush all hope for you: the long wait is due to the atrocious forum software and complete lack of organization. Nothing useful is being done.

I've heard similar complaints. A lot of my friends that are on the TK have told me it's an unorganized mess with a terrible forum and no real work is being done. I guess we shouldn't be surprised with that, considering that the TK seemed to have been unprepared (with the sign-up site going down, lack of available information about the TK at the time, etc.) and pulled out of someone's arse during an Anet staff meeting

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

13 Jan 2010 at 16:01 - 947

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

A lot of my friends that are on the TK have told me it's an unorganized mess with a terrible forum and no real work is being done.

Not that we've been given a different impression so far. I don't see how a group working with no time schedule nor priorities can call itself "organized".

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

13 Jan 2010 at 16:09 - 948

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Perfect balance isn't achievable, but more balanced certainly is. Broken Form is truely broken and you know it.

What would your reaction be to the following (PVE of course) skill?

Mega Farm (elite): All foes in the zone are killed and drop double. All drops shadow step to your location.

Would you argue that it is fine because:
a) it doesn't affect anyone else
b) it's only PvE
c) balance isn't possible anyway
d) if you don't like it don't use it
e) you will quit the game if they nerf it
f) people who don't like it are selfish/gwamm/farmers w/e
g) if they nerf it, obby flesh would just replace it
h) all of the above

Because this is exactly the pro-broken form argument. Go figure!

I would be ok with those reasons, actually. Then again, I hate PvE. Meh, PvE will always be broken.

BuD

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Nunya

E/Mo

13 Jan 2010 at 17:06 - 949

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Regina hasn't said. The best we can probably hope for is Mid-February.

But wouldnt mid February be only a couple weeks before the MAT?

If we are to believe what Regina said about releasing skill updates/balances it should come the first Thursday of February. If its any later it will clash with the MAT...

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

13 Jan 2010 at 17:23 - 950

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Perfect balance isn't achievable, but more balanced certainly is. Broken Form is truely broken and you know it.

What would your reaction be to the following (PVE of course) skill?

Mega Farm (elite): All foes in the zone are killed and drop double. All drops shadow step to your location.

Would you argue that it is fine because:
a) it doesn't affect anyone else
b) it's only PvE
c) balance isn't possible anyway
d) if you don't like it don't use it
e) you will quit the game if they nerf it
f) people who don't like it are selfish/gwamm/farmers w/e
g) if they nerf it, obby flesh would just replace it
h) all of the above

Because this is exactly the pro-broken form argument. Go figure!

I would argue that your example skill is not fine because it takes away the fun of the hunt when farming, while SF and 600/smite do not. You still have to go in there and keep the spells up, as easy as it seems and may be to experienced players.

Both SF and 600/smite are broken in the sense that it gives you 'invulnerabilty', which wasn't a problem last years until the SC popped up. Ofcourse the anti SF crowd existed back then too, but Anet tried to find the sweet spot between the purists on one side and the farmers on the other side. Because guess what, you're not the only type of player playing this game, go figure!

Fay Vert

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/

13 Jan 2010 at 17:29 - 951

FYI. I am very pro solo/farm as a form of play. The loot nerf was the worst thing they ever did to this game. But Broken Form just needs to die, that was such a dreadful failure, far far worse than Ursan ever was.

Axel Zinfandel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Northeastern Ohio

LaZy

P/W

13 Jan 2010 at 17:38 - 952

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

I would argue that your example skill is not fine because it takes away the fun of the hunt when farming, while SF and 600/smite do not. You still have to go in there and keep the spells up, as easy as it seems and may be to experienced players.

Both SF and 600/smite are broken in the sense that it gives you 'invulnerabilty', which wasn't a problem last years until the SC popped up. Ofcourse the anti SF crowd existed back then too, but Anet tried to find the sweet spot between the purists on one side and the farmers on the other side. Because guess what, you're not the only type of player playing this game, go figure!

I've never used 600/smite, but let me get one thing straight... Mashing 1,2, and then 3 on recharge is not and will never take 'skill' as you seem to be hinting at. It would be something different if a good number of monsters had the ability to remove SF or do damage through it, but they don't. You are invulnerable to anything, and the rare packet of damage that gets through is easy to self heal. You saying that SF is fine because it takes an experienced player to mash buttons on recharge is laughable.

SF was totally fine as a farming skill BEFORE it was made maintainable as well, and people seem to forget this. It was mainly used as a boss killer farm, and it was a very good one at that. Very fragile, you had to get in there, do the right thing, get any drops, and get out.

Alesa

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

13 Jan 2010 at 17:55 - 953

Well that's intriguing. I'd like to point out the difference in communication style below between a fumbling ArenaNet and the Diablo2 CM covering very similar announcements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina

So I know some of you are waiting anxiously for the next skill balance. Let me just take a few moments to talk about the challenges we're facing with this particular skill balance. We are involving the Test Krewe in this balance. They've really been digging deep into skill discussions, and the involvement of the Test Krewe has added more cycles to the skill balance process. This is to be expected. When you invite a large group of people into the process and solicit and discuss their feedback, it will take more time. Secondly, skill balance (like many aspects of game design) is an iterative process, and one where both the Test Krewe and the Live Team are learning, streamlining, and improving on, in terms of how best to deliver and take in feedback. The winter holiday break hit, and there was some downtime for that. Finally, you all know that we do not change skills before the MAT. The Live Team and Test Krewe are working earnestly on this skill balance, and the Team knows that you've been waiting for it.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=845

There are approximately 4 excuses thrown at us in that one short paragraph that I underlined. There seems to be no accountability or even solid reason for the delay. But perhaps these are the excuses they threw at their superiors as well.

I would like to contrast this with the Diablo2 CM's announcement of a long awaited patch. The content and games are different but that's not really what we are addressing here, rather the method of communicating with the players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bashiok

The legacy team met late last week to decide how to proceed on the 1.13 patch and the decision was made to go back into development to incorporate a few additional changes. While this patch has already seen its fair share of delays we still want to ensure we’re releasing a patch that hits some key community issues. I do want to stress though that while we did look at feedback and responses we’re obviously not going to be able to include everything requested. Our hope is to hit at least a decent portion of what we saw people discussing and correct some of the more severe issues while keeping additional development time as brief as possible.

We don’t have a current estimate for release, and because work is only just beginning on these new changes we won’t be announcing their details. We’ll be keeping everyone updated as to the progress of the patch though, and we hope to see this update on the PTR as soon as possible and then off quickly to a release and ladder reset.
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...46175&sid=3000

There are no excuses. They took responsibility for the delay, acknowledged and firmly stood by their decision. They also directly addressed the community and made solid statements that they heard their concerns. While flaws could probably be brought up with both, I think it's a glaring fact that our CM's seem to be seriously lacking in both poise and confidence.

I don't mean to be harsh but the significant difference in the tone between the two leaves me to wonder. Neither of the two statements was probably satisfactory to either community; yet I feel like I have more information about the mindset of the development team and the progress of Diablo2's update than I do of Guild Wars. Blizzard gave the impression of decisions being made, of action occurring. ArenaNet left the impression that they are still stumbling around in the dark.

Krill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

America

13 Jan 2010 at 17:57 - 954

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

A lot of my friends that are on the TK have told me it's an unorganized mess with a terrible forum and no real work is being done.

More massive Anet incompetence? I'm shocked!

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

13 Jan 2010 at 17:59 - 955

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

I've never used 600/smite, but let me get one thing straight... Mashing 1,2, and then 3 on recharge is not and will never take 'skill' as you seem to be hinting at.

No I was not hinting that, but now that we're onto that subject...When I infuse in PvP, I mash buttons too. You're prolly gonna tell me now infusing takes no skill either, which may as well be true. If it's true it means I'm keeping players alive in PvP with a no brainer, no skill build that makes a real difference. If this mashing is allowed in PvP, the 'epitome' of balance and skill in GW, I'm sure it's ok for PvE also.

So when is a build considered skillful when you have only 8 spots on the bar? Btw, when I play 600 I'm using 6 out of 8 skills constantly. In Foundry 7 out of the 8.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

13 Jan 2010 at 18:12 - 956

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

I've never used 600/smite, but let me get one thing straight... Mashing 1,2, and then 3 on recharge is not and will never take 'skill' as you seem to be hinting at. It would be something different if a good number of monsters had the ability to remove SF or do damage through it, but they don't. You are invulnerable to anything, and the rare packet of damage that gets through is easy to self heal. You saying that SF is fine because it takes an experienced player to mash buttons on recharge is laughable.

SF was totally fine as a farming skill BEFORE it was made maintainable as well, and people seem to forget this. It was mainly used as a boss killer farm, and it was a very good one at that. Very fragile, you had to get in there, do the right thing, get any drops, and get out.

nothing in pve takes skill. nerf everything?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

I would be ok with those reasons, actually. Then again, I hate PvE. Meh, PvE will always be broken.

This.
unless they fix enemy AI pve will always be a joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

When I infuse in PvP, I mash buttons too. You're prolly gonna tell me now infusing takes no skill either, which may as well be true. If it's true it means I'm keeping players alive in PvP with a no brainer, no skill build that makes a real difference. If this mashing is allowed in PvP, the 'epitome' of balance and skill in GW, I'm sure it's ok for PvE also.

Fallacious argument. pressing glyph, paradox, sf in order takes no skill whatsoever, whereas catching a spike and keeping red bars up does. Personally, the fact that you'd go so far as to compare monking in pvp to maintaining sf (as if they're in any way similar) leads me to believe that you shouldn't be monking in pvp.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

13 Jan 2010 at 18:36 - 957

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apathetic Tom

Fallacious argument. pressing glyph, paradox, sf in order takes no skill whatsoever, whereas catching a spike and keeping red bars up does. Personally, the fact that you'd go so far as to compare monking in pvp to maintaining sf (as if they're in any way similar) leads me to believe that you shouldn't be monking in pvp.

Oh...but I wasn't comparing, I'm just demonstrating that 'skill' to one player doesn't equal 'skill' to another. I've read discussions about infusing in the PvP forums and some disagree with you.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

13 Jan 2010 at 18:39 - 958

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Oh...but I wasn't comparing, I'm just demonstrating that 'skill' to one player doesn't equal 'skill' to another. I've read discussions about infusing in the PvP forums and some disagree with you.

You were comparing.
Also, I care that some baddies think sf and infuse are on the same skill level?

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

13 Jan 2010 at 18:57 - 959

You guys are totally missing the point which was about mashing buttons. In theory infusing is pressing 1 button, but ofcourse at the right time and with energy management and what not in mind. So no, it's not the same as SF you smartasses.

I just think the counter argument about SF and mashing buttons is pretty weak.

axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Pwn Appetit [NJoy]

W/

13 Jan 2010 at 19:10 - 960

This whole game is build wars anyways, PvP/PvE you just adjust your build to farm your environment. Mash buttons and profit, only difference in PvP is you cant control what your opponents choose as their build and skill will profit in that situation.