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Originally Posted by own age myname
600/smite takes skill, and is fun.
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| Recent example. I just died while 600ing, because I went into dream mode for like 3 seconds |
Next Skill Balance
BlackSephir
own age myname
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
Funny, that's what SF apologists say about SF.
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| Recent example. I just died while SFarming, because I went into dream mode for like 3 seconds when I was supposed to reapply SF. |
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by Meridon
Appearantly, you have a have a hard time recognizing the symptoms of raging, and make false statements about my state of mind. If this was an attempt of you to troll, it has been rather unsuccesful. Until you have provided a valid reason in terms of game balance why you think 600/Smite should be nerfed, your opinion will be dismissed as a simple way of revenge for having your favorite farm skill nerfed. Again, you haven't simply given any reason on why.
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And yes, obbyflesh should go as well.
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Originally Posted by Rekliss
If SF nerf, need to increase the running game (Dash need 7 second recharge, and need to lower the recharge on dark escape. if you're gonna balance, need to balance the WHOLE equation) to make things still manageable. the assassin is supposed to be fast and hit hard.
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Vann Borakul
@Kaleban: I'll respond when I have a computer to type from.
There isn't a single high end farming run that takes skill. All you need is specific knowledge and the ability to perform a scripted series of mouse clicks.
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Originally Posted by own age myname
Unlike SF; 600/smite takes skill, and is fun.
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FyrFytr998
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Originally Posted by Vann Borakul
@Kaleban: There isn't a single high end farming run that takes skill. All you need is specific knowledge and the ability to perform a scripted series of mouse clicks.
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I was wondering if the whole Midline GvG thing is a backdoor way into nerfing Spirit Spammers? I mean it shouldn't though as a lot of the skills have PvP counterparts to them.
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by Vann Borakul
@Kaleban: I'll respond when I have a computer to type from.
There isn't a single high end farming run that takes skill. All you need is specific knowledge and the ability to perform a scripted series of mouse clicks. |
Try 3-man DoA. You a monk, and 2 heroes. Micro-manage them AND your character.
DreamWind
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Originally Posted by Kaleban
For purposes of FUN which is what games are about, its more FUn to have powerful characters than vastly weakened ones. That's the whole idea and concept behind consumables and PvE skills. I would have thought all of this was obvious.
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You have to realize that we are in an online game with an economy and competition where balance actually matters. Shall we allow god mode and a skill that does 10 billion damage if it is fun for some people? No because it would destroy the game and its entire concept. Destructive or degenerate things should not exist. Even if Anet says they are good they should not exist.
You can argue that some things should be buffed for use, but to argue that overpowered things should be left alone "for fun" is ridiculous. The only place this would make sense is in a single player offline game as a cheat code.
own age myname
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Originally Posted by Vann Borakul
There isn't a single high end farming run that takes skill. All you need is specific knowledge and the ability to perform a scripted series of mouse clicks.
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Arduin
Specific knowledge = the ability to go to the Wiki's nowadays.
Kaleban
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Originally Posted by DreamWind
blah blah blah economy blah competition in pve blah blah blah
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I don't care if there are nerfs or buffs, but ANet needs to stop catering to whiny crybabies and balance the game that's been out for nearly five years ONCE and FOR ALL.
Its easy. Make all areas require something from each primary attribute of each class. That's how the game should have been built in the first place. Examples:
Unkillable monsters that die instantly when interrupted
Mobs with 1000 armor except their feet which has 0 armor, hence traps
A passage in the game that to pass through unharmed and un-aggroed, someone in the party needs to be in Avatar form (Balt, Lyssa, Grenth, etc.) sort of like a retinal scanner for access lol
Mobs that RUN IN FEAR when "shouted" at
Monsters that only die when hit by a critical hit
Those are just off the top of my head.
Dreamvid, YOU have to realize the economy is an illusion that only exists to regulate trade of non-game impacting items. YOU also have to realize that the idea of competition in PvE is laughable, the only competitor other than yourself is time and ego. Whether you finish a dungeon in 5 minutes or 2 hours is irrelevant as long as you finish it, in game terms.
If the speed and efficiency is important to you, then you're the one with the problem, not the game. Again, SF is not the cause of the problem, its only a symptom of the player base wanting speed and efficiency for a five year old game with extremely repetitive content.
Its SO boring and repetitive that things like Zaishen Missions were introduced to add a thin layer of shiny polish to the mind numbingly repetitive grind. And your ultimate reward for spending countless hours re-grinding missions and bosses? A 20 slot bag or a crate of fireworks. ANet /lolcrits players
BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by own age myname
Except, I actually have to pay attention to 600 smite, always. SF you can go braindead for 30secs and still be alive. |
Gennadios
Everyone! Stop! I've found the PERFECT solution!11111
Bring back the old Ursan functionality. That way every class will have an equal place in parties. No more having to listen to permas QQing about Sins not being wanted in general PvE.
Bring back the old Ursan functionality. That way every class will have an equal place in parties. No more having to listen to permas QQing about Sins not being wanted in general PvE.
BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by Gennadios
Everyone! Stop! I've found the PERFECT solution!11111
Bring back the old Ursan functionality. That way every class will have an equal place in parties. . |
Did you even play during ursan times?
There was no equality.
Cuilan
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
Did you even play during ursan times?
There was no equality. |
So I hear you people don't want Mark of Pain nerfed?
Axeman002
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Originally Posted by own age myname
Well, I'm entitled to my opinion.
Except, I actually have to pay attention to 600 smite, always. SF you can go braindead for 30secs and still be alive. |
McCankles
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Originally Posted by Kaleban
Someone please explain why its fair to nerf the one build that allows Sins into groups, instead of doing what needs to be done and that is to balance all the powerful classes (War Ele and Monk) with all the other marginalized classes?
I don't care if there are nerfs or buffs, but ANet needs to stop catering to whiny crybabies and balance the game that's been out for nearly five years ONCE and FOR ALL. Its easy. Make all areas require something from each primary attribute of each class. That's how the game should have been built in the first place. Examples: Unkillable monsters that die instantly when interrupted Mobs with 1000 armor except their feet which has 0 armor, hence traps A passage in the game that to pass through unharmed and un-aggroed, someone in the party needs to be in Avatar form (Balt, Lyssa, Grenth, etc.) sort of like a retinal scanner for access lol Mobs that RUN IN FEAR when "shouted" at Monsters that only die when hit by a critical hit Those are just off the top of my head. Dreamvid, YOU have to realize the economy is an illusion that only exists to regulate trade of non-game impacting items. YOU also have to realize that the idea of competition in PvE is laughable, the only competitor other than yourself is time and ego. Whether you finish a dungeon in 5 minutes or 2 hours is irrelevant as long as you finish it, in game terms. If the speed and efficiency is important to you, then you're the one with the problem, not the game. Again, SF is not the cause of the problem, its only a symptom of the player base wanting speed and efficiency for a five year old game with extremely repetitive content. Its SO boring and repetitive that things like Zaishen Missions were introduced to add a thin layer of shiny polish to the mind numbingly repetitive grind. And your ultimate reward for spending countless hours re-grinding missions and bosses? A 20 slot bag or a crate of fireworks. ANet /lolcrits players |
Every game has a expiration date on fun factor, even an MMORPG. The fact that GW's fun factor has lasted for this long is testament enough. It's just not fun during this "dead period" between EotN and GW2 release where nothing new has been released. I think that's where PvE and PvP differ, PvErs need new things to play with in game, while PvPers only need changes to skills to have new content.
Arduin
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Originally Posted by Kaleban
Its easy. Make all areas require something from each primary attribute of each class. That's how the game should have been built in the first place.
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Though it would force people to take certain professions along, it would also force people to bring certain skills. I don't think this is the best solution.
The problem is that not every profession in GW has something truly unique that is needed. You only need the tank/healer/nuker setup to be successful. Giving each profession something that contributes to the party would be a good start in my opinion.
Remnant
just hope they dont nerf the no monthly fee system 
Konker2020
^ probably won't happen.
Jk)Phoenix
Stop nerf everything!!!
Power up other stuff, so u make game more fun, u make more choices, u have less QQers!
ps: damn restore the monthly predictions of tournaments, we want our z-keys!!
Power up other stuff, so u make game more fun, u make more choices, u have less QQers!
ps: damn restore the monthly predictions of tournaments, we want our z-keys!!
Daesu
ANet is destroying elite areas one at a time. Look what they did to Ursan, thus making DoA a ghost town. Now it is UW's time to die since it is the most popular elite area.
Even though I understand the need for more challenges in elite areas, they should at least be easy enough to be puggable or hero-able. DoA is now a ghost town that is frequent only by some hardcore PvE guilds, once in a while. If this is the state of all GW towns and outposts in the near future, then it is not worth waiting for GW2.
Even though I understand the need for more challenges in elite areas, they should at least be easy enough to be puggable or hero-able. DoA is now a ghost town that is frequent only by some hardcore PvE guilds, once in a while. If this is the state of all GW towns and outposts in the near future, then it is not worth waiting for GW2.
Test Me
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Originally Posted by Vann Borakul
There isn't a single high end farming run that takes skill.
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Wake up people. This is a game! And no, it's not chess or playing piano. Skill is such a non-argument.
FyrFytr998
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Originally Posted by Test Me
WTH is this skill thing that keeps coming up in such discussions??? This is a more or less crappy game. It *does not* require building a skill to play it and it won't ever. No amount of nerfs will ever change that, it's just going to be pressing 8 buttons in different sequences. No sane person would ever claim that they are "skilled" at doing that on their resume (e.g.).
Wake up people. This is a game! And no, it's not chess or playing piano. Skill is such a non-argument. |
People go into a high end area the first time. Get spanked by the baddies. Then the people figure out a strategy to kill baddies and press the appropriate button. Skill is taking a block of whatever and creating fine art out of nothing. Skill = Talent. GW = Game of Button Mashing Fun.
Daesu
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Originally Posted by Test Me
WTH is this skill thing that keeps coming up in such discussions???
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Trub
Page 12 is funnies..
Patience....after the MaTs...the air will be 'different'.
Sometimes things need to be stirred before it's fully cooked.
Patience....after the MaTs...the air will be 'different'.
Sometimes things need to be stirred before it's fully cooked.
Xenex Xclame
Skills says hi
When you learn it you will know,because it will have become second nature.Just because you don't have any does not mean it does not exist.
Chess it's just moving different chess pieces in different sequences.
The steps a pieces can make will never change the only thing that may change is your and your opponents reaction to a particular move,just like guildwars.
Playing piano does not take skill,learning to play music does,there is no wrong way to play a piano, only the Beethoven and the random key pressing way.There is no way to "win" at playing piano.
Now please get our troll.
PS:Talking about pvp.
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| A skill is the learned capacity to carry out pre-determined results often with the minimum outlay of time, energy, or both. |
Chess it's just moving different chess pieces in different sequences.
The steps a pieces can make will never change the only thing that may change is your and your opponents reaction to a particular move,just like guildwars.
Playing piano does not take skill,learning to play music does,there is no wrong way to play a piano, only the Beethoven and the random key pressing way.There is no way to "win" at playing piano.
Now please get our troll.
PS:Talking about pvp.
Lishy
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Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame
Skills says hi
Now please get our troll. |
*cough*
YOU SUCK, DUCKWAD! HARD-DRUGS ARE BEING USED BY LOSERS! HENTAI IS FULL OF LOLI! YOUNG KIDS USE CURSE WORDS!!!!!!!
*ahem*
With that aside, well, to some extent, I would say GW requires skill, as with your philosophy you're saying players require no skill but need to adapt
That, in itself, is kind of skill, while having to cope with the requirement to have your timing and reflex on top. A fighting game is essentially the same, only faster.
Of course, if I misunderstood you, better clarify?
shoyon456
I support a full nerf of SF. Ironically, I wasn't persay an advocate of nerfing Ursan. I wanted it nerfed for armor/health to be the same for all classes, and primary att set to zero because NO ONE wanted a derv ursan.
Ursan is available to all classes and completely eliminates class discrimination, albeit at a heavy price of class roles and skill. SF is a very narrow godmode build only usable by primary sins that encourages discrimination of other classes.
That is my rational, whether you agree or not.
Ursan is available to all classes and completely eliminates class discrimination, albeit at a heavy price of class roles and skill. SF is a very narrow godmode build only usable by primary sins that encourages discrimination of other classes.
That is my rational, whether you agree or not.
Trinity Fire Angel
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Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse
Leave 600/Smite alone, it's not overpowered, it takes a measure of skill, and more than one player, it's not even remotely invincible.
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feather farming has never been so easy.... :P
granted it is a lot less invincible than shadow form and does take a degree of skill to get right when you first start the build, but after a day or so it becomes pretty easy. its just that you can only really use it in HM or have to take frenzy in order to get enuff damage to pop spirit bond off.
edit: essentially, i think it prolly does need a nerf-o-rama.
ps. ooh, just had a good idea about shadowform... perhaps... its very simple...
Make it more like mist form.
"You and enemies are unable to attack. Enchantment Ends if you use a skill"
Lishy
People will move to 600 right after SF is nerfed.
I can see perfectly why to nerf it.
I can see perfectly why to nerf it.
Arcole
I think it's kind of funny watching all of the people begging for 600/smite to not to be nerfed while they scream 'til their lungs bleed for SF nerfs. 600/smite may not be used in the same sort of farms as SF but essentially it is the exact same 1-2-3-1-2-3 button mashing.
All I personally want to see is for the team to get back to monthly updates to make the game interesting for 1 day out of 30.
All I personally want to see is for the team to get back to monthly updates to make the game interesting for 1 day out of 30.
Lishy
To be honest, what I want is to see balanced play promoted as opposed to discouraged.
Perhaps having elite areas tweaked to offer higher rewards based on what we use to farm?
By all means, I would love to see more Obisidian shards given after the SF nerf.
I FoWSC and I still haven't gotten an obsidian edge though. Neither enough shards for my obbi armor after so many runs.
Seeing things with less insane requirements and drop rates would make things a LOT better.
However, due to just general GW design, that is impossible because someone will ALWAYS make a speedrun build even if balanced play is promoted.
Perhaps having elite areas tweaked to offer higher rewards based on what we use to farm?
By all means, I would love to see more Obisidian shards given after the SF nerf.
I FoWSC and I still haven't gotten an obsidian edge though. Neither enough shards for my obbi armor after so many runs.
Seeing things with less insane requirements and drop rates would make things a LOT better.
However, due to just general GW design, that is impossible because someone will ALWAYS make a speedrun build even if balanced play is promoted.
Kityn
I say keep a few farming areas for these farm builds but tweak other zones so these builds wont work. Keeping some people happy on both sides.
Vazze
Generally speaking 600 can be faster than a H/H team, but sf is a like 2-5 times faster than 600. Also, sf is 1 person and 600/smite is two, which matters a lot when you do sc. No question which one is stronger. But if we are talking about uber builds, the tank/mop/100b combo needs to be looked at too. I don't see how wiping dozens in a split second is worse/weaker than the smiter.
isildorbiafra
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Originally Posted by Vazze
Generally speaking 600 can be faster than a H/H team, but sf is a like 2-5 times faster than 600. Also, sf is 1 person and 600/smite is two, which matters a lot when you do sc. No question which one is stronger. But if we are talking about uber builds, the tank/mop/100b combo needs to be looked at too. I don't see how wiping dozens in a split second is worse/weaker than the smiter.
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Sifow Chan
If you can change tactics, you need to change leadership to be more viable in a smaller team setting like 4/4. You guys are always trying to make the Cores better but could care less about the other professions...It's already been known that Warriors are the most favorite profession by anet anyway. Stop trying to make them better and work on making Rits/Paragons and Dervs good in PvP again.
If you plan to nerf 600/smite...you need to raise the faction gain for AB and FA/JQ considering how slow it is to get faction when not using the farming builds. Though that aside, AB should give more faction than JQ/FA in the first place anyway.
If you plan to nerf 600/smite...you need to raise the faction gain for AB and FA/JQ considering how slow it is to get faction when not using the farming builds. Though that aside, AB should give more faction than JQ/FA in the first place anyway.
Xenex Xclame
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
To be honest, what I want is to see balanced play promoted as opposed to discouraged.
Perhaps having elite areas tweaked to offer higher rewards based on what we use to farm? |
I would love to see collectors asking for the stuff that drops in FoW/UW and gives you weapons (maybe max gold inscribable or greens if gold would cause people to cry that their gold is useless)Just make them renamed reskins too save on the work.The collector would ask for X ammount of dark remains and say 10K for the weapon.
I would love for the gold drop chance to be increase by maybe 20%, lower the crappy purple chances a little bit, purples are fine but too many times useless purples drop, and lower the whites .
It would also be nice if either the Aaxte damage could be lowered (not preffered) or move them so their exactly at the start of UW, UW is very very unwelcoming for first time groups if they are moved, say to the near the doors and put say a few graspings a few charges and a few mindblades to replace the Aatxe.It wouldnt surprise me if a big group of the players went into UW once got OWNED and then said, shit these guys hit for too much nevermind this place and didnt go back to UW in a long whilte
Master Ketsu
Dear Anet:
Please stop wasting your time by trying to balance PvE. Any hope of PvE balance was killed back at the release of nightfall and had its corpse ritualistically burned at the release of Eotn. PvE will never be balanced, and shadowforms death will just lead to the next best OP farming method.
Instead, focus back on PvP so those of us who actually enjoy skillful play have a reason to return to this game.
Please stop wasting your time by trying to balance PvE. Any hope of PvE balance was killed back at the release of nightfall and had its corpse ritualistically burned at the release of Eotn. PvE will never be balanced, and shadowforms death will just lead to the next best OP farming method.
Instead, focus back on PvP so those of us who actually enjoy skillful play have a reason to return to this game.
Test Me
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Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame
Skills says hi
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n. 1. Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience. See synonyms at ability. 2. An art, trade, or technique, particularly one requiring use of the hands or body. 3. A developed talent or ability: writing skills. 4. Obsolete. A reason; a cause. |
PS: Skill is acquired/developed (therefore takes time). So if you really are to compare; maybe GW would be a bit like a piano with 8 keys (my apologies to all piano players for the heresy). And the equivalent of nerfs in a piano world would be people randomly assigning the piano keys to different tones. If all pianos in the world would get "nerfed" on a regular schedule than indeed no one would be able to play it skillfully and it would be just random key smashing. Oh wait... that *is* how people play GW! Guess what?
Xenex Xclame
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Originally Posted by Test Me
http://www.answers.com/topic/skill
And I have a limit. Don't insult piano and chess in my presence, ok? The fact that you consider GW PvP a skill while playing piano is not a skill says a lot. PS: Skill is acquired/developed (therefore takes time). So if you really are to compare; maybe GW would be a bit like a piano with 8 keys (my apologies to all piano players for the heresy). And the equivalent of nerfs in a piano world would be people randomly assigning the piano keys to different tones. If all pianos in the world would get "nerfed" on a regular schedule than indeed no one would be able to play it skillfully and it would be just random key smashing. Oh wait... that *is* how people play GW! Guess what? |
I didn't insult anything, READ.
I put your horribly bad statement about GW in the context of chess,because by your own example chess would not require skill either, its just moving pieces in a predetermined sequence.
Skill in GW is already acquired in GW,the skills you have as choice are a small part of the game, how YOU execute those skills will determine if you will be succesfull or not.
Again just because you can not do it, does not mean its not possible.
People that are good at pvp stay good at pvp, just because a skill was changed or because a better skill was introduced does not mean that person had become any less good.The person will be just as succesfull with a different set of skills.
Of al the pianos in the world got randomly assined different keys Beethoven will still be able to play beautifull music,he will most likely just have to get used to the new tunes that belong to which key.
I think I could speak pretty confident and say most pvpers love nerfs/buffs, because it gives us new stuff to play with.The problem is Anet likes to overshoot their nerfs/buffs.
Anyone that simply presses keys randomly will find themselfs on the losing side the of the moral meter very fast.
Edit: Welcome Twivicaceme, I hope you enoy your stay here.Don't take things on this board to seriously and you will probably have fun, we are mostly people that love this game, even when we say we hate it.