Preliminary Skill Update Notes
Bill Clinton
Thankyou for the update regina. This is exactly the kind of thing we have been looking for.
![Ec]-[oMaN](/static/static/../Img/avatar8384_2.gif){kind=avatar}
Ec]-[oMaN
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Originally Posted by tealspikes
Agreed. Last time Pblock was meta nobody would run a primary ele or nec just fastcast mesmers, and I don't blame them. 1 skill that can shut down your entire bar 15/20s or force you to waste energy and miss spikes cancel casting half your skills...I know pblock isn't an easy skill - you have to have good ping and everything. But it shouldn't be powerful enough to invalidate 2 primary profession and also be able to single handedly cause teamwipes.
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Apok Omen
Can we keep Bsurge out of this thread? It is not OP and just because you get trained by it in RA does not mean it warrants a nerf.
OT:
Midline Spike: Something worries me about how Anet is going about this. With the way they are changing GA rangers and 1sec activation bow attacks, I'm fine. With paras and eles, however....
Stand Your Ground is used primarily for Soldier's Fury upkeep. Secondly, it is for additional support for the monks, not just the whole team. Making it end on attacks would in no way keep monks from having over 90 armor, respectively. It's actually a very easy change: make it end when party member moves. Same mechanics as Protector's Defense, and makes it a decision-making skill instead of just another irremovable buff.
MoI ele's are not popular and OP because of their elite skill. All MoI needs is to actually deal cold damage instead of armor ignoring damage. As for the snares, Freezing Gust and Winter's Embrace need slight nerfs. For Fgust, make it an 8 sec recharge. For Winters, 10e. Why? Because FC Water Messes would be popular after MoI nerf. They already are now, and nerfing the snares would keep them at bay. Same for regular Water Ele's; reducing the snares' effectiveness will limit their ability to solo snare, which is a good thing.
Bloodspam: I'm okay with the changes, would need to see what is being done to prot and resto skills. However, you could at least move Cultist's Fervor to Soul Reaping (or reduce energy reduction from 7 to 4) and make Lyssa's Aura only affect Mesmer skills (i.e., it will only reapply itself if you cast an offensive Mesmer spell) in order to prevent Me/N bloodspammers from using it in favor of Cultist's Fervor.
OT:
Midline Spike: Something worries me about how Anet is going about this. With the way they are changing GA rangers and 1sec activation bow attacks, I'm fine. With paras and eles, however....
Stand Your Ground is used primarily for Soldier's Fury upkeep. Secondly, it is for additional support for the monks, not just the whole team. Making it end on attacks would in no way keep monks from having over 90 armor, respectively. It's actually a very easy change: make it end when party member moves. Same mechanics as Protector's Defense, and makes it a decision-making skill instead of just another irremovable buff.
MoI ele's are not popular and OP because of their elite skill. All MoI needs is to actually deal cold damage instead of armor ignoring damage. As for the snares, Freezing Gust and Winter's Embrace need slight nerfs. For Fgust, make it an 8 sec recharge. For Winters, 10e. Why? Because FC Water Messes would be popular after MoI nerf. They already are now, and nerfing the snares would keep them at bay. Same for regular Water Ele's; reducing the snares' effectiveness will limit their ability to solo snare, which is a good thing.
Bloodspam: I'm okay with the changes, would need to see what is being done to prot and resto skills. However, you could at least move Cultist's Fervor to Soul Reaping (or reduce energy reduction from 7 to 4) and make Lyssa's Aura only affect Mesmer skills (i.e., it will only reapply itself if you cast an offensive Mesmer spell) in order to prevent Me/N bloodspammers from using it in favor of Cultist's Fervor.
Arkantos
The topic of this thread is the skill update notes, not discussing what you find overpowered in RA or anywhere else. Keep that in mind.
Akaraxle
Why do they persist on trying to contain blood spike in awkward, roundabout ways? The game's past the stage where it made sense to try and "fix" it to preserve diversity.
KILL IT WITH FIRE. Change life stealing to damage in the PvP versions of every blood magic skill and be done with it; no one will care about a bunch of random arena scrubs whining about it.
KILL IT WITH FIRE. Change life stealing to damage in the PvP versions of every blood magic skill and be done with it; no one will care about a bunch of random arena scrubs whining about it.
Tearz1993
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Originally Posted by Akaraxle
KILL IT WITH FIRE. Change life stealing to damage in the PvP versions of every blood magic skill and be done with it; no one will care about a bunch of random arena scrubs whining about it.
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bitchbar player
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Originally Posted by Apok Omen
Stand Your Ground is used primarily for Soldier's Fury upkeep. Secondly, it is for additional support for the monks, not just the whole team. Making it end on attacks would in no way keep monks from having over 90 armor, respectively. It's actually a very easy change: make it end when party member moves. Same mechanics as Protector's Defense, and makes it a decision-making skill instead of just another irremovable buff. |
fishy go moo
They better make stand your ground or whatever cost less energy if it's going to end when you attack.....seriously fricking nerf paragons more? Why can't they do a skill update making the motivation line useful and making underused skills useful instead of this stupid ranger spike bullshit
Giga_Gaia
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Originally Posted by fishy go moo
They better make stand your ground or whatever cost less energy if it's going to end when you attack.....seriously fricking nerf paragons more? Why can't they do a skill update making the motivation line useful and making underused skills useful instead of this stupid ranger spike bullshit
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craigrs84
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Originally Posted by Hollygen
So you missed the bit that started:
While we continue a larger playbalance project ... So no, that's not all. Just all for the moment to hit some of the issues whilst others are still being hammered out |
veteran_player
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
While we continue a larger playbalance project that includes drastic changes to Shadow Form.
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Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
Will this "larger playbalance" be known as Guild Wars 2 ?
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by veteran_player
Those who write clearly have readers, those who write obscurely have commentators.
Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865) Will this "larger playbalance" be known as Guild Wars 2 ? |
Skyy High
They said next month. What, you want the specific weekend, so you can rail against them if something unexpected crops up in the build and it's delayed a few days?
Bobby2
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| They said next month. |
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| What, you want the specific weekend, so you can rail against them when something that probably could have been foreseen crops up in the build and it's delayed a few days? |
I'm just gonna go ahead and say: the game is fine as it is, forget about updates because they're surely not going to improve anything.
Regulus X
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Originally Posted by Bobby2
Meaning jack sh*t.
I'm just gonna go ahead and say: the game is fine as it is, forget about updates because they're surely not going to improve anything. |
reaper with no name
Sad thing is, ^ is probably the best thing Anet could do right now balance-wise.
Bandwagon
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Originally Posted by Chrisworld
What if anet does the same thing SOE did to SWG? Just remove half the classes and nerf the shit out of everything. Then, the unbalanced loss of players over shadowform will just equal out over the ENTIRE game and you'll lose a balanced amount of players for everything overall.
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Hell, I did not see them talk about W/N MoP raptor farmers, perhaps this update will push more people into using W/N as a pose to A/E for Raptor Farming (Very common form of perma farming).
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by Bobby2
Meaning jack sh*t.
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Fixed to match reality. |
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| I'm just gonna go ahead and say: the game is fine as it is, forget about updates because they're surely not going to improve anything. |
Jensy
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
It doesn't work like that. Either you ask them for a reasonable idea of when they are planning to roll out the changes, or you go ahead and doubt every single thing that comes out of their mouth. You can't have it both ways, because you're basically crying that you're not getting information, and then scoffing at any information that you do get as a load of bullcrap that they're not going to follow through on. Either believe what they say and be happy with the timeline they've given, or don't believe what they say and stop demanding updates to their timeline that you're not going to believe anyway!
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Bobby2
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
It doesn't work like that. Either you ask them for a reasonable idea of when they are planning to roll out the changes, or you go ahead and doubt every single thing that comes out of their mouth!
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The purpose of my post was not to lament the lack of updates, it was to underline my lack of trust in ANet's statements.
Regina Buenaobra
Hey everyone. A few changes emerged after testing over the weekend, and we'd like to share another preview with you:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews
zelgadissan
So again, for those who cba to read:
- Mirror of Ice to 15 energy
- Cultist's Fervor: 1..5..6 energy, 25r, duration based on Soul Reaping (think MoI)
- Winter's Embrace to 10e, 15r
- Ride the Lightning to have aftercast like assassin shadow steps
- Anthem of Envy (PvP) to 6r, bonus damage to 10..20
- Glass Arrows (PvP) bonus damage to 5..12
- Keen Arrow (PvP) to 12r, +1..5 unconditional, +5..30 for critical
- Sloth Hunter's Shot (PvP) to 15r, +5..20 unconditional, +5..15 more conditional
- Marauder's Shot disable effect from 5 to 10
- all 1 second bow attacks will have a .5 second aftercast
- Precision Shot to +3..10
- Sundering and Penetrating Attacks in PvE get 3/4 activation
- Needling Shot to 3/4 activation, disables other attack skills 2 seconds
- Power Shot to normal speed but armor ignoring
- Crippling Shot arrows to move twice as fast
- Hunter's Shot to 1s activation
- Lightning Reflexes (PvP) to 45r
- Soldier's Fury to give Cracked Armor for 10s when shout or chant ends on you
EDIT: forgot to give thanks to Regina on appreciation day.
- Mirror of Ice to 15 energy
- Cultist's Fervor: 1..5..6 energy, 25r, duration based on Soul Reaping (think MoI)
- Winter's Embrace to 10e, 15r
- Ride the Lightning to have aftercast like assassin shadow steps
- Anthem of Envy (PvP) to 6r, bonus damage to 10..20
- Glass Arrows (PvP) bonus damage to 5..12
- Keen Arrow (PvP) to 12r, +1..5 unconditional, +5..30 for critical
- Sloth Hunter's Shot (PvP) to 15r, +5..20 unconditional, +5..15 more conditional
- Marauder's Shot disable effect from 5 to 10
- all 1 second bow attacks will have a .5 second aftercast
- Precision Shot to +3..10
- Sundering and Penetrating Attacks in PvE get 3/4 activation
- Needling Shot to 3/4 activation, disables other attack skills 2 seconds
- Power Shot to normal speed but armor ignoring
- Crippling Shot arrows to move twice as fast
- Hunter's Shot to 1s activation
- Lightning Reflexes (PvP) to 45r
- Soldier's Fury to give Cracked Armor for 10s when shout or chant ends on you
EDIT: forgot to give thanks to Regina on appreciation day.
Martin Alvito
OK, I stand corrected on my earlier comments. Now you're starting to get somewhere.
And I agree: thank you, Regina. We appreciate the heads up, and communication on this issue has been excellent. Credit where credit is due.
And I agree: thank you, Regina. We appreciate the heads up, and communication on this issue has been excellent. Credit where credit is due.
Xenex Xclame
Wow, hate rangers much?
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by zelgadissan
So again, for those who cba to read:
- Mirror of Ice to 15 energy - Cultist's Fervor: 1..5..6 energy, 25r, duration based on Soul Reaping (think MoI) - Winter's Embrace to 10e, 15r - Ride the Lightning to have aftercast like assassin shadow steps - Anthem of Envy (PvP) to 6r, bonus damage to 10..20 - Glass Arrows (PvP) bonus damage to 5..12 - Keen Arrow (PvP) to 12r, +1..5 unconditional, +5..30 for critical - Sloth Hunter's Shot (PvP) to 15r, +5..20 unconditional, +5..15 more conditional - Marauder's Shot disable effect from 5 to 10 - all 1 second bow attacks will have a .5 second aftercast - Precision Shot to +3..10 - Sundering and Penetrating Attacks in PvE get 3/4 activation - Needling Shot to 3/4 activation, disables other attack skills 2 seconds - Power Shot to normal speed but armor ignoring - Crippling Shot arrows to move twice as fast - Hunter's Shot to 1s activation - Lightning Reflexes (PvP) to 45r - Soldier's Fury to give Cracked Armor for 10s when shout or chant ends on you EDIT: forgot to give thanks to Regina on appreciation day. |
Soldier's Fury getting Cracked Armor (in PvE)?
Well, I guess they really do want Paragons to only use Imbagon, and they must really hate all Ranger elites....some of that is so random. Doesn't Anet obs?
Revelations
Basically undodgeable cripshot is pretty retarded. If anything it needs slightly longer crip time to compensate for everyone and their dog bringing rune + shield. Making it completely unavoidable is just dumbing down that bar - be it on your team or your opponents.
Martin Alvito
The tradeoff with Crip Shot has always been brutal (unsustainable) energy investment in return for a guaranteed hit.
There is nothing wrong with strengthening its benefits. There is risk in watering down its drawback.
There is nothing wrong with strengthening its benefits. There is risk in watering down its drawback.
Revelations
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
The tradeoff with Crip Shot has always been brutal (unsustainable) energy investment in return for a guaranteed hit.
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Removing the ability to dodge it is only going to mean another mechanic less to separate bad players from good ones.
EDIT:
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
There is risk in watering down its drawback.
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Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Revelations
Except it has NEVER been a guaranteed hit. Until next update at least.
Removing the ability to dodge it is only going to mean another mechanic less to separate bad players from good ones. |
Regulus X
In summary: R.I.P. rangers and paragons [reason: GvG]
No B.Surge tone-down's going to make 4v4 meleers SCREAM for months to come.
Thanks for interacting with us though, Regina. It's the least we could possibly be thankful for despite wave after wave of game-killing nerfages.
No B.Surge tone-down's going to make 4v4 meleers SCREAM for months to come.
Thanks for interacting with us though, Regina. It's the least we could possibly be thankful for despite wave after wave of game-killing nerfages.
Martin Alvito
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Originally Posted by Revelations
Interesting that one of cripshot's drawbacks is that it can be dodged by decent players. It would seem you then agree with me?
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Personally, I am a meh Ranger. I'm old (for a competitive gamer), my reaction time is blah, and my connection is poor. The best thing I ever did as a Ranger was bag Remstar and Custodian on a split, and this only happened because they screwed up badly in our NPCs. Just putting it in perspective for you.
However, I know many quality Rangers, and I have had the privilege of playing alongside them. I can't recall seeing a quality Ranger ever use Crip Shot in a situation where it could legitimately be dodged, unless the target was running away on a split.
This may have some small effect on the ability of a split to flee an engagement. Otherwise, it's not going to matter much. The key attribute of the balanced form of Crip Shot was always that it was too expensive to maintain in the long term. Making it a touch harder to dodge is negligible. If it encourages its use at the margin, great.
EDIT: OK, I now see what you're saying. Think about it this way - you now have to be that much further away to bail on a split. Other than that, bad players are bad and good players beat them anyway.
Revelations
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
He meant that it couldn't be blocked. And how are you missing with Crip Shot? It's.....easy to hit with. Hell, it was a PvP staple skill for years.
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I agree with you entirely, decent players had no trouble hitting with cripshot - which is not going to change with this update, hence it is somewhat irrelevant.
However, my point is that one of the drawbacks of cripshot is that bad players have difficulty hitting good players with it. The update will change this fact, because even fired from bad position with the wrong bow type it will be effectively unavoidable, except at extreme range.
Basically, this change will cater to bad players, whereas decent players will be - for all intents and purposes - unaffected by it. Hence my dislike for the proposal.
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
Other than that, bad players are bad and good players beat them anyway.
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EDIT: It should probably be mentioned that - aside from the above mentioned change - I believe this update is a massive step in the right direction. The second set of changes were a nice welcome from the disappointment of the gaps in the first.
Dzjudz
Arf now my E/A AP caller with winter's embrace / glowing ice isn't energy efficient any more 
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Apok Omen
If Anet wants players to use Cripshot over Melshot, or at least make them equal, all they have to do is reduce the recharge from to 1 second. Simple as that. Everything else, I'm cool with.
FoxBat
All the bow changes feel a little overkill - a 1-1.5 second aftercast akin to interrupts would've been easier than gutting everything like this. Oh well.
This sorta implies the other blood changes aren't going through yet, but they weren't much of a threat to the mAT anyway.
This sorta implies the other blood changes aren't going through yet, but they weren't much of a threat to the mAT anyway.
Ariovist Lynxkind
I seriously dont get this change to Needling Shot. It is good the way it is, driving home the kill but not exactly op in the damage, so why change it?
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by zelgadissan
So again, for those who cba to read:
- Mirror of Ice to 15 energy - Cultist's Fervor: 1..5..6 energy, 25r, duration based on Soul Reaping (think MoI) - Winter's Embrace to 10e, 15r - Ride the Lightning to have aftercast like assassin shadow steps - Anthem of Envy (PvP) to 6r, bonus damage to 10..20 - Glass Arrows (PvP) bonus damage to 5..12 - Keen Arrow (PvP) to 12r, +1..5 unconditional, +5..30 for critical - Sloth Hunter's Shot (PvP) to 15r, +5..20 unconditional, +5..15 more conditional - Marauder's Shot disable effect from 5 to 10 - all 1 second bow attacks will have a .5 second aftercast - Precision Shot to +3..10 - Sundering and Penetrating Attacks in PvE get 3/4 activation - Needling Shot to 3/4 activation, disables other attack skills 2 seconds - Power Shot to normal speed but armor ignoring - Crippling Shot arrows to move twice as fast - Hunter's Shot to 1s activation - Lightning Reflexes (PvP) to 45r - Soldier's Fury to give Cracked Armor for 10s when shout or chant ends on you EDIT: forgot to give thanks to Regina on appreciation day. |
Ariena Najea
Thank you for the awesome communication on these skill balances!
This is a great change for Needling Shot which will allow Rangers to pressure more effectively. There is a problem though, disabling Attack Skills for 2 seconds prevents the usage of key skills such as Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, and Magebane Shot. If these are disabled, the Ranger is far less able to pressure effectively. Perhaps instead of disabling Attack Skills, what about negating damage from attack skills for the next two seconds instead? Meaning you can still auto-attack and disrupt (albeit without any potential damage bonus from Savage), but not effectively finish a spike.
I don't think that Soldier's Fury is as much the problem as key Command skills such as "Stand Your Ground!". Changes need to be made to prevent chaining from multiple Paragons. This is not a new theme, and making a change now to fix some of these shouts to either make them less viable for chaining, or changing some of the skills' functionality will prevent the need for some rebalancing in the future. A good change would be to make the skills more effective, but decrease the duration (similar to the old Incoming! but far less extreme). For example, change Stand Your Ground! to +40 (an approximately 25% further bonus versus armor-based damage), but decrease the duration to 0...4...6.
Again, thank you for the excellent level of communication.
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| Needling Shot will be given the 3/4 second activation time in both PvE and PvP, but it will disable other attack skills for 2 second to prevent its use in attack combos with other skills |
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| Soldier's Fury will be given a similar downside as Aggressive Refrain. "Whenever a shout or chant ends on you, you suffer from Cracked Armor (10 seconds)." The purpose of this change is to force Paragons to make a choice between defense (higher armor) or offense (increased attack speed). We do not expect PvE Paragons to be harmed by this change; so we're letting it apply to both PvE and PvP. |
Again, thank you for the excellent level of communication.
Greedy Gus
Ranger changes being considered 'overkill' means your position is that rangers doing big damage with spammy push-button attack skills is legitimate. I think that's a degenerate role for them, and wouldn't mind even if these skills were removed completely.
Regulus X
They're basically chopping ranger's d***'s off completely with this update. I feel sorry for all you ranger fans out there.