Update- Thurday January 28

dusanyu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Illusion of skillz [Iz]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gennadios View Post
ANet, you blow.

That's 2 out of the 2 paragon IAS skills that are laden with overly un-attractive handicaps in PvE for no good reason.

Not only that, but Soldier's Fury was the the only legitimate elite that got any use outside of Imba lameway.
yes because all mid line classes need 121 armor amiright?

cracked armor reduces a paras base armor to 60 like every other mid line class woopty doo

just use centurions insignia, a +5 armor spear grip and shield swap to the appropriate +10 vs X type damage you will be fine.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke View Post
I feel like a lot of people are not realizing that when you nerf one skill, all other similarly available options become relatively stronger.
Only in PvP... In PvE, every nerf is one that will effectivly make the format harder.

Pandora's box

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
Fast cast hexers or blood spikers were not good for the game.
Than you are talking about PvP. But many PvE players used it in other combinations. Two examples, both ele/necro:

1. Cusltist's Fervor; Animate Vampiric Horror; Vampiric Gaze; Angorodon's Gaze; Putrid Bile; Demonic flesh; Aura of restoration; Res. signet
2. Cultist's Ferver; Parasitic Bond; Vampiric Gaze; Angorodon's Gaze; Blood Ritual; Demonic Flesh; Aura of Restoration; Res. signet

The heart of one of my PvE builds (along with an Ele/ritualist); Never running out of energy, can survive a lot of damage, and supports others with energy. Sure, there are alternatives, but eleminating this just because of PvP? I thought we had concensus that skills both popular in PvP and PvE will be separated when balancing?

Premium Unleaded

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by plastichead View Post
rangers, if they must use a bow, are limited to only the standard ranger bar: apply, elite (BA, Cripshot or Magebane), savage, dshot, natty stride, mend touch, troll/hunters shot.

the ability of this build to spread conditions is far inferior to a ranger with a spear.
Except the bit where a spear chucker isn't able to use 2 of the most important skills on a bow bar: savage shot and dshot.

Tenebrae

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
You're not qualified to comment unless you know what's going on.
Soz you dont tell me what to do, you didnt show any knowledge so your words are cheap. Anyone can see the update ..... and laugh about it. Smitboon skills is not ( and never was ) a good way to balance things , and thats it .

Lanier

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's box View Post
Than you are talking about PvP. But many PvE players used it in other combinations. Two examples, both ele/necro:

1. Cusltist's Fervor; Animate Vampiric Horror; Vampiric Gaze; Angorodon's Gaze; Putrid Bile; Demonic flesh; Aura of restoration; Res. signet
2. Cultist's Ferver; Parasitic Bond; Vampiric Gaze; Angorodon's Gaze; Blood Ritual; Demonic Flesh; Aura of Restoration; Res. signet

The heart of one of my PvE builds (along with an Ele/ritualist); Never running out of energy, can survive a lot of damage, and supports others with energy. Sure, there are alternatives, but eleminating this just because of PvP? I thought we had concensus that skills both popular in PvP and PvE will be separated when balancing?
Yea, i know what you mean. I had a Fast Cast Cutist's Fervor build on my mesmer that I liked to use from time to time. Its not like the elite was overpowered on mesmers or eles in PvE.

mlandry

mlandry

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

W/Me

I really hope ANet releases a PvE update without any splits and without taking PvP into consideration.

Maybe then the PvP guys will understand why it's so annoying to have PvE skills nerfed for no good reason except to make them even more useless. And no, just because SF hasn't been nerfed, doesn't mean it doesn't affect us because "we have more OP'ed skills". (I've never used SF btw).

Already my mesmer only uses 2 different builds because there are no other decent options. If I want to find a team, I can only roll the most powerful build out there as well because no one will want me without it, because other options are very underwhelming.

It's not as bad for other classes but it's not exactly going in the right direction for PvE.

When we get a bunch of random nerfs like this, we are even more limited in terms of builds. And the point of the game is to have a large variety of skills so people can come up with creative builds. Or at least it used to be; can't say it's even possible anymore, unless you want to use a build that's extremely underpowered for a challenge.

Xenex Xclame

Xenex Xclame

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

DPX

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlandry View Post
I really hope ANet releases a PvE update without any splits and without taking PvP into consideration.

Maybe then the PvP guys will understand why it's so annoying to have PvE skills nerfed for no good reason except to make them even more useless.
Wrong, no pvp person would notice if they nerf a skill for pve which also affects pvp because they dont use that skill in pvp anyways.

In pvp you only use the best out of the choices you have, which when it comes to pve, the choices are never the same.They could nerf Barrage because they think it wipes through everything too fast with splinter,but nobody will miss it in pvp.

They could also nerf BHA but nobody would care except the monks on the opposing them because you made their job easier by bringing that elite.

Loralai_gw

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke View Post
Preliminary skill updates are preliminary. By the time we show you part of our hand, we're going to have a pretty set plan on how we're going to change the skills. Glancing through about the first 12 or 13 pages of the thread, I don't see anything but crying over one thing being nerfed, or something else not getting nerfed, or nothing getting buffed, which is pretty much the same reception that this thread seems to be getting. Were you honestly expecting us to come out with skill updates that were far off from what we were telling you that you were getting?
First off, I really don't think ArenaNet needs you speaking on their behalf. They are big boys and girls. Secondly, I don't think the Test Krewe was made to replace the playerbase or other comments and opinions. I certainly don't think Martin and Regina would agree with your assessment that our feedback is no longer valuable because a blessed few were able to get into a simple testing crew.

If you are on the test krewe maybe you should take a lesson from your CM's and watch the commentary and look at it objectively. Rather than mindlessly defending every decision because you believe you played a part in it. Better yet, you had your say let the rest of us now have ours. Because unlike you, I do believe ArenaNet still cares what the rest of us think. Just because you post it on your test krewe forums doesn't make it feedback. Just like posting it here doesn't make it whining.

On that note, I think this update is better than most in recent memory. It seems most agree with that (though I understand all the test krewe people are sensitive and defensive right now and can't possibly see that). Codex reroll rate is good. Don't know if it will be enough to revive it though.

lemming

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's box View Post
The heart of one of my PvE builds (along with an Ele/ritualist); Never running out of energy, can survive a lot of damage, and supports others with energy. Sure, there are alternatives, but eleminating this just because of PvP? I thought we had concensus that skills both popular in PvP and PvE will be separated when balancing?
That's where your argument broke down.

It absolutely does suck to have a build you like playing nerfed, but it happens. I highly doubt that CF eles qualify as 'popular' enough to merit the split.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenebrae View Post
Soz you dont tell me what to do, you didnt show any knowledge so your words are cheap. Anyone can see the update ..... and laugh about it. Smitboon skills is not ( and never was ) a good way to balance things , and thats it .
It's not, but it's better than not doing anything.

Life Bringing

Life Bringing

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Fissure of Woe

[LOD]/[GS]/[DL]/[LOD*]

N/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's box View Post
Than you are talking about PvP. But many PvE players used it in other combinations. Two examples, both ele/necro:

1. Cusltist's Fervor; Animate Vampiric Horror; Vampiric Gaze; Angorodon's Gaze; Putrid Bile; Demonic flesh; Aura of restoration; Res. signet
2. Cultist's Ferver; Parasitic Bond; Vampiric Gaze; Angorodon's Gaze; Blood Ritual; Demonic Flesh; Aura of Restoration; Res. signet

The heart of one of my PvE builds (along with an Ele/ritualist); Never running out of energy, can survive a lot of damage, and supports others with energy. Sure, there are alternatives, but eleminating this just because of PvP? I thought we had concensus that skills both popular in PvP and PvE will be separated when balancing?
You're running Rez sig, demonic flesh, and random crappy blood skills on an ele in pve. Your opinion on what should and should not be nerfed isn't important.

Fluffy Kittens

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2009

why nerf useless bspike and rspike and not nerf ls monks or pb mesmer which are too imbalanced...and they became very popular since it's easy to use interrupt bots...and same build winning HoH all the time.. why not nerf it?

bursta91

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2008

Canada

Gangsters In The [HooD]

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlandry View Post
Maybe then the PvP guys will understand why it's so annoying to have PvE skills nerfed for no good reason except to make them even more useless. it's not exactly going in the right direction for PvE.
Maybe the "PvE guys" could sympathize a little for us pvpers who havent gotten an update in..... 6 months?? let alone a half decent one


Quote:
Originally Posted by mlandry View Post
And the point of the game is to have a large variety of skills so people can come up with creative builds.
see shadowform

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essence Snow View Post
Saw a post noting the GW population as 90% PvE 10% PvP....Does anyone know how accurate this is?
Used to be pretty accurate, though after stuff like the Ursan nerf and the general decline in population I imagine it's less skewed towards PvE.

That said, it's pretty easy to understand. Although the PvE community sucks pretty hard, a lot of them play alone and those who don't are generally happy with each other. Meanwhile the PvP community is the most miserable, self-destructive shithole this side of PA. The PvP community will naturally have much smaller numbers, and are in general unimportant.

Granted, Anet used to have it in mind that GW would be an e-sports game (thank god they got over that), but not any more, so the relevance of PvP is on a rapid decline.

Makes sense. If you want to play against someone, play a real competitive game, not an MMO/RPG.

Pandora's box

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Life Bringing View Post
You're running Rez sig, demonic flesh, and random crappy blood skills on an ele in pve. Your opinion on what should and should not be nerfed isn't important.
Oh? but my ele's never die from Cyndr or other damage spikers. Who are you and what is your contribution to this game?

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's box View Post
Oh? but my ele's never die from Cyndr or other damage spikers.
Let's have a video of you soloing Cyndr HM with that build, then.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

Please.... as a primary PvE player... please stop talking Pandora.

Don't give PvEers an even worse reputation.


No nerfs ever break PvE. Ever. Simply adapt instead of complain.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms View Post
No nerfs ever effect PvE. Ever. Simply adapt instead of complain.
If they don't affect it, how can you adapt to something that didn't happen?

bursta91

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2008

Canada

Gangsters In The [HooD]

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's box View Post
O Who are you and what is your contribution to this game?
Whoru Rules
#1. Must be someone to ask "whoru".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's box View Post
Oh? but my ele's never die from Cyndr or other damage spikers.
How would you die? SF was not nerfed in this update,
was it?

wilebill

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

Most of the changes in the update are mysterious to me. Guess I've drifted too far away from the game.

I don't think my PvE builds are changed for good or ill very much. That being said ... I do hope that GW2 with its more concise set of skills fares better under the nerf bat than GW.

Orangutans are skeptical
Of changes in their cages,
And the zookeeper is very fond of rum.
--Simon and Garfunkel

MisterB

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

This update fixed reconnects, which I completely missed with all the skill updates that don't significantly affect me in PvE at all. So thanks for fixing reconnects, ANet. Also, the buffs to protect from life steal with monk and rit skills are interesting for PvE.

Blood magic on an ele? Right, not going there.

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms View Post
No nerfs ever break PvE. Ever. Simply adapt instead of complain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk View Post
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
No nerfs ever effect PvE. Ever. Simply adapt instead of complain.

If they don't affect it, how can you adapt to something that didn't happen?

Try not changing quotes Zahr when you use them, He said "break" not effect..it just makes you lose any point you may have had.

It is true what was said.. it may make PvE harder in some sreas, but there is always a way found to adapt.

PuppyEater

PuppyEater

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

I'm on the left...

Guilds? Where we're going we don't need guilds...

R/Rt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk View Post
If they don't affect it, how can you adapt to something that didn't happen?
The same way God cooks a potato so hot not even he can eat it?

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterB View Post
Blood magic on an ele? Right, not going there.
Go on, you know you want to... ^.^

Pandora's box

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk View Post
Let's have a video of you soloing Cyndr HM with that build, then.
I would gladly have made one, but now Culstist's Fervor is nerfed, this build does not work anylonger. Just tried sigh...

But don't get me wrong. I started telling that there are alternatives. Of course this 3 ele hero build is nothing compared to sabway. Point is: lots of PvE players use fun builds. One for every occasion and sometimes one can be used more often. But still, fun builds. That is the difference to PvP where everything needs to be serious. But it does not mean PvE skills should just be changed because its 'only playing for fun'!

Desert Rose

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essence Snow View Post
Saw a post noting the GW population as 90% PvE 10% PvP....Does anyone know how accurate this is?.......If this is anywhere close to the consensus then the PvE players...i.e. the mass of the consumer base,....their concerns should weigh more than the PvPers when it comes to NON-SPLIT issues. Why should fixing a problem affecting 10% of the player base leave a sour taste for the remaining 90%?
You have to keep two things in mind:
1. People will far more likely leave a negative comment than a positive one.
2. Not all PvE-players see skillchanges due to PvP-needs as a problem; some don't care at all, they simply adept, other are exitied about those changes because they can create new builds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke View Post
I feel like a lot of people are not realizing that when you nerf one skill, all other similarly available options become relatively stronger.
If I remember correctly you're in the TK, right? Seems that ANet had made some quite good catches.

thedukesd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
Most PvP skillbars need all eight skills. There's no room to drop a skill for a conjure so that an ele can do less autoattack dps than a 9 spec spear.
Depends where you do pvp. In Jade Quarry as an ele you need exactly 3 skills to cape, nothing more (also it's fun to kill the melees with spear), so you have 5 skills witch you can chose as you wish. Also being able to use 2 types of damage it's way harder to be stoped (spells intrerupted/in cooldown I start using the spear to do damage, Emphaty on me (well already to many skills used on me, and he will not think that i will start using the spear to do damage, ench removed maybe i'm still doing some damage with my spear)).

Builds posted on net are easy to counter. Unusual builds can be harder to counter. Also probably I'm in a guild were they don't do pvp (before joining this guild I was in a so called friendly and helpful big guild, I was big but I was talking alone there and if I'm talking alone I will leave). Also cause my friends don't do pvp I have to do pvp in random areas.

Rocky Raccoon

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

PvP is serious so it can't be fun, did I miss something?

FabioLyone

FabioLyone

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2009

R/

My fast cast bspammers are dead!

AtomicMew

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

Noooo fc bspam. How ever will I getst /rank nao?

lol @ so called "pvp players" in this thread.

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

EDA is dead, long live BSurge

Update didn't bust any shins, props for that. Hesitant to call out for another one (bimonthly lol?) for fear of f*ckups

Shayne Hawke

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loralai gw
I don't think the Test Krewe was made to replace the playerbase or other comments and opinions. I certainly don't think Martin and Regina would agree with your assessment that our feedback is no longer valuable because a blessed few were able to get into a simple testing crew.
I feel like you have me misunderstood. Community feedback is important, yes. And the Krewe, I feel, was supposed to be a tool to use a handful of active players to pull opinion and insight from the community on how the game should be adjusted and improved. There's no disagreement here.

What I'm saying here is that by the time there is an idea of what is going to be changed in one week, and those plans have been in the works for over a month, there's really little influence that the community is going to have on that update, unless somebody notices something glaringly wrong. Any constructive feedback put forth on preliminary updates will most likely take effect, if at all, on the update after.

Complaining about buffs or nerfs or lack thereof is whining. Pointing out a specific skill and talking about why that skill needs or doesn't need a buff, nerf, or change is feedback. Getting a thousand people to tell us that Blinding Surge is a problem tells us it's a problem, but getting ten people to explain how the skill is detrimental and suggesting how it could be improved already does a whole lot more good.

pumpkin pie

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aljasha View Post
it was by far and still is the best non-elite snare. even at the low duration.
the higher cost and recharge are a step into the right direction.
it should have remain the same for PvE, I use it for the last 3-4 months vanquishing, it's not worth bringing and takes up one skill slots now that it cost 10 energy and the longer recharge time.


Did anyone notice the new tiny icons beside the title tracks?

Shayne Hawke

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkin pie View Post
Did anyone notice the new tiny icons beside the title tracks?
Icons? Do they do something?

pumpkin pie

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke View Post
Icons? Do they do something?
my bad lol, it has always been there, i was looking at the wrong tab. no they do not do anything.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlandry View Post
I really hope ANet releases a PvE update without any splits and without taking PvP into consideration.
.
Already did that. It's called MoI, RoJ, Expert's Dexterity...

Ghost Dog

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

W/

I quit reading at page 2, this is a good update and anybody that thinks otherwise is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid as shit.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing whine more.

Redvex

Redvex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Dog View Post
I quit reading at page 2, this is a good update and anybody that thinks otherwise is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid as shit.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing whine more.
Thanks God

Ferminator

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2009

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Dog View Post
RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing whine more.
Well said. 12chars

Perfected Shadow

Perfected Shadow

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Zul'Aman

Umes Uranger U[bot]

cripshot is already unblockable, why the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO make it a bitch to dodge too?