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Originally Posted by ZainAhmed
When injecting GW with a supposedly working bot one will not realize what their actually doing until they have used it to gain something.
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Recent Account Bans
Gabriel of Ravn
StormX
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Originally Posted by ZainAhmed
In real life we know what's wrong and what's not mostly so when you guys say "they knew it was wrong"...that's not really true because there are diff levels of doing wrong so one does not instantly realize that in the virtual world. When injecting GW with a supposedly working bot one will not realize what their actually doing until they have used it to gain something... I think I explained my point clearly...because when I realized what it was capable of I quit immediately but Anet doesn't care.
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that's just really poor. you made a mistake, at least you acknowledge that. that doesn't excuse you from facing the consequences
Inde
Everyone, a reminder. We do not tolerate flaming, personal attacks or insults. Keep it civil.
maddigit
"What we have here, is a failure to communicate."
I just don't understand why all the banned people think arguing their case here will get their accounts back. This is the wrong place.
Maybe start a new forum named "Dhuums realm" for the banned to type out their frustrations.
I just don't understand why all the banned people think arguing their case here will get their accounts back. This is the wrong place.
Maybe start a new forum named "Dhuums realm" for the banned to type out their frustrations.
ZainAhmed
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Originally Posted by Gabriel of Ravn
You're kidding right if I were to go download a bot I'm not downloading something that will supposedly make my GW look better no I'm downloading a bot meaning I go and specifically look for it and click download how would I supposedly not know that.
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Have you heard of gwca(not the name of the actual bot)? Well when i heard about it I didn't believe it...so I tried it out and well it worked in pvp(RA) but of course i then realized how much wrong it really was because it was too easy to...well...interrupt things.
ZainAhmed
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Originally Posted by shoyon456
So wait, they're not at fault because they don't know what is illicit conduct or not, and say its not their fault when they don't read the document they're supposed to read that explains said conduct and have to agree to before playing?
Oh ok, just making sure that's the argument you want to go with. No, a lot of people don't read it word for word, but that doesn't diminish the responsibility and culpability of the person. "But officer, everyone else was speeding too!" doesn't work in real life and it doesn't work here. |
ZainAhmed
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Originally Posted by Dzjudz
To the botters who say they didn't read the EULA and that nobody else did:
Do you really need to read the EULA to know that botting = ban? I'll freely admit that I never read the EULA. On the other hand, I don't bot and know that botters will and should get a ban. What what what? 1. You go to a bot site 2. You find a certain bot, let's say "raptor farm bot" 3. You read what it does, how it works, what you need to do to set it up 4. You download it 5. You install it 6. You run it 7. You finally figure out what you are doing? That is essentially your reasoning, or am I missing something? |
1. I wasn't told anything about the bot specifically or I didn't go read every little detail on rupting bots in pvp.
2. I searched google...gave me a link..
3. 1 2 3 i was rupting patient spirit like nothing
4. and the i quit bc i was sure if i continued it would get me banned...
but the case here is that anet banned anyone who ever injected the dll or any bot dll/etc etc for unapproved 3rd p programs
IlikeGW
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Originally Posted by ZainAhmed
but the case here is that anet banned anyone who ever injected the dll or any bot dll/etc etc for unapproved 3rd p programs
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El Presidente
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Originally Posted by maddigit
Maybe start a new forum named "Dhuums realm" for the banned to type out their frustrations.
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The ones that were rightfully banned contributed nothing positive to the game, playerbase, etc. while botting, match manipulating and such. Sure, they made so-called "friends" (but, irl, criminals also commonly associate with one another).
So ~ Why allow them access (here) now? What can those banned now contribute (in a positive way) to this and other forums? They can't buy/sell/trade because they have no items, they have no account(s). They can't post links, names of botters, etc. to stay away from. They seem to only post here...but most of their rants are them trying to justify their actions as something trivial, pleading to the masses to try and get a slap on the wrist, or claiming ignorance / denying they did anything wrong. Some (very few), however, did own up...
Almost every other type of "I got banned" thread was closed by a mod, very fast, with a "we can't do anything for you here, please contact support" reply. Why allow these threads to stay open?
ZainAhmed
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Originally Posted by IlikeGW
So Anet did what they're supposed to do. No bots doesn't mean you can use a bot for 5 minutes or a week or a month and only a guy using it for a year gets banned. This is something people made up in their head that was a bad gamble.
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amaretto creme
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Originally Posted by ZainAhmed
Well a good lesson anyway. Never use bots EVAAAR
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I know, it sucks that you got banned after you had a change of heart before you might have used it for its purpose, or even after you used it once. Change of heart doesn't matter though. You. Used. A. Bot. End of story. It doesn't matter the time frame, it matters that you had downloaded it and used it, and that's exactly how they see it.
For those of you pleading ignorance of the user agreement that you HAVE to agree to before gameplay, next time, read it. Just because you didn't read it doesn't exempt you from the rules of it. That's your own fault for not reading it and/or not following the rules of it. You only have yourself to blame for your ban.
Btw, I'm not trying to personally attack you Zain, or even anyone else, I'm just saying this once for everyone who is trying to use the "I had a change of heart" reason and the "I didn't know" reason to get their accounts back (as I know there's so many people who are). Once again, if you had a change of heart, or you REALLY didn't know you couldn't use it, I feel sorry for you, but you still only have yourself to blame for falling victim to thinking it was okay by any means (boredom, peer pressure, whatever). If you had a change of heart, you knew it was wrong. If you really didn't know, you should have researched to see if you were really allowed to use it. Sorry for your loss, but there's nothing they, or any of us, can do.
ZainAhmed
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Originally Posted by amaretto creme
Well, it's good that you learned your lesson. That doesn't mean that ANet or NCSoft should give back ANYONE'S account and/or allow them to play again based on their word that they "learned their lesson." To be able to enforce what people agree to, there must be no leniency. It's also true that, even if you used the bot for 2 seconds then thought it was wrong, you still had the intention to use it at some point, or you wouldn't have even downloaded it. They specifically say that if you use any 3 party game altering programs you are subject to a permanent ban. They never state about how long or your intentions with it. Why? Because so many people could and WOULD use that against them for a loophole. What they see is that you used a bot, and that's it.
I know, it sucks that you got banned after you had a change of heart before you might have used it for its purpose, or even after you used it once. Change of heart doesn't matter though. You. Used. A. Bot. End of story. It doesn't matter the time frame, it matters that you had downloaded it and used it, and that's exactly how they see it. For those of you pleading ignorance of the user agreement that you HAVE to agree to before gameplay, next time, read it. Just because you didn't read it doesn't exempt you from the rules of it. That's your own fault for not reading it and/or not following the rules of it. You only have yourself to blame for your ban. Btw, I'm not trying to personally attack you Zain, or even anyone else, I'm just saying this once for everyone who is trying to use the "I had a change of heart" reason and the "I didn't know" reason to get their accounts back (as I know there's so many people who are). Once again, if you had a change of heart, or you REALLY didn't know you couldn't use it, I feel sorry for you, but you still only have yourself to blame for falling victim to thinking it was okay by any means (boredom, peer pressure, whatever). If you had a change of heart, you knew it was wrong. If you really didn't know, you should have researched to see if you were really allowed to use it. Sorry for your loss, but there's nothing they, or any of us, can do. |
Now if only I knew someone at Anet personally...then i could get my account back.
lishi
I'm not gonna discuss on the penalty the botter received as i do believe that the best way to stop casual botting (AKA : not the gold farming company) its not just ban the account one don't care about but :
But i must say that the community manager managing was very very poor, ignoring the problem might have let them catch few more botters, but probably those botter would not actually started if anet just released something on the line :
"We are aware of the botting problem, the response to this might not be immediate, but we do keep a log of everything happening in this game. And we are not limited to take action on the account who did the botting.
That probably would have stopped few people i know (and many probably i dont know) from falling to the dark side. Sure some of you might say, we are better off. No, they are no asshole, they are helpful player who made a very bad choice. And as such probably the game is less without them.
While anet have clearly the right to do what they did, also if they had taken action on the epic long thread on botting the problem could be much more contained. Since we are full of real life analogy : "Speeding on a road where the limit is 50km/h is punished even if the limit was not well displayed, but a good administration will take action so that a driver will not surpass the limit in the first place"
I'm said this even if i know very well that Regina and the other CM have much better credential of me in their job, but that is what i feel.
But i must say that the community manager managing was very very poor, ignoring the problem might have let them catch few more botters, but probably those botter would not actually started if anet just released something on the line :
"We are aware of the botting problem, the response to this might not be immediate, but we do keep a log of everything happening in this game. And we are not limited to take action on the account who did the botting.
That probably would have stopped few people i know (and many probably i dont know) from falling to the dark side. Sure some of you might say, we are better off. No, they are no asshole, they are helpful player who made a very bad choice. And as such probably the game is less without them.
While anet have clearly the right to do what they did, also if they had taken action on the epic long thread on botting the problem could be much more contained. Since we are full of real life analogy : "Speeding on a road where the limit is 50km/h is punished even if the limit was not well displayed, but a good administration will take action so that a driver will not surpass the limit in the first place"
I'm said this even if i know very well that Regina and the other CM have much better credential of me in their job, but that is what i feel.
Trub
I'm sorry.
I don't need (ANet) to become all paternal on me.
I know how to read, and the EULA is very clear:
Don't break these rules, and you can play till we say stop.
We don't need a gaming company holding our hands...we have enough scruples to figure out right and wrong for goodness sakes.
(If you feel YOU don't, get out of GW.)
I don't need (ANet) to become all paternal on me.
I know how to read, and the EULA is very clear:
Don't break these rules, and you can play till we say stop.
We don't need a gaming company holding our hands...we have enough scruples to figure out right and wrong for goodness sakes.
(If you feel YOU don't, get out of GW.)
Ghost Dog
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Originally Posted by lishi
I'm not gonna discuss on the penalty the botter received as i do believe that the best way to stop casual botting (AKA : not the gold farming company) its not just ban the account one don't care about but :
But i must say that the community manager managing was very very poor, ignoring the problem might have let them catch few more botters, but probably those botter would not actually started if anet just released something on the line : "We are aware of the botting problem, the response to this might not be immediate, but we do keep a log of everything happening in this game. And we are not limited to take action on the account who did the botting. That probably would have stopped few people i know (and many probably i dont know) from falling to the dark side. Sure some of you might say, we are better off. No, they are no asshole, they are helpful player who made a very bad choice. And as such probably the game is less without them. While anet have clearly the right to do what they did, also if they had taken action on the epic long thread on botting the problem could be much more contained. Since we are full of real life analogy : "Speeding on a road where the limit is 50km/h is punished even if the limit was not well displayed, but a good administration will take action so that a driver will not surpass the limit in the first place" I'm said this even if i know very well that Regina and the other CM have much better credential of me in their job, but that is what i feel. |
Bet me money that if you caught them and said don't bot they would have flamed you for psychological self defense at least.
Ka Tet
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Originally Posted by ZainAhmed
Yea, i feel so bad about using it now...
Now if only I knew someone at Anet personally...then i could get my account back. |
lishi
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Originally Posted by Ghost Dog
Stop letting people walk all over you, they aren't assholes? They sure made an assholes decision.
Bet me money that if you caught them and said don't bot they would have flamed you for psychological self defense at least. |
PuppyEater
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
Are you seriously suggesting this for someone who was banned for breaking the EULA?
It's like people don't understand the meaning of "I agree" |
amaretto creme
People just don't take responsibility for their own ignorance/stupidity anymore. It happens more and more every day, sadly.
If someone's integrity is compromised even for a minute and they break down and do something they shouldn't, they're still doing something they shouldn't, no matter how sorry they are about it afterward. Peer pressure is something that helps this happen a lot, even in real life. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. Only you can blame yourself for doing something you know you shouldn't. Only you can blame yourself for not being knowledgeable about a situation before doing it. I know, I've done something I shouldn't before, and just because I and my friends weren't knowledgeable about the laws and the property, it didn't matter. We still broke the law, good thing is no charges were pressed, but that doesn't stop them from coming to me and saying "you broke the law, you might be charged" because I DID do something wrong.
If someone's integrity is compromised even for a minute and they break down and do something they shouldn't, they're still doing something they shouldn't, no matter how sorry they are about it afterward. Peer pressure is something that helps this happen a lot, even in real life. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. Only you can blame yourself for doing something you know you shouldn't. Only you can blame yourself for not being knowledgeable about a situation before doing it. I know, I've done something I shouldn't before, and just because I and my friends weren't knowledgeable about the laws and the property, it didn't matter. We still broke the law, good thing is no charges were pressed, but that doesn't stop them from coming to me and saying "you broke the law, you might be charged" because I DID do something wrong.
Move Down
Most botters prob dont care about there ban and buy new account and start over.
But the people that worked hard and got banned for no reason will think twice before they ever buy a ncsoft game again.
So you will get only more botters and less players the way it goes now
But the people that worked hard and got banned for no reason will think twice before they ever buy a ncsoft game again.
So you will get only more botters and less players the way it goes now
Nerel
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Originally Posted by Move Down
Most botters prob dont care about there ban and buy new account and start over.
But the people that worked hard and got banned for no reason will think twice before they ever buy a ncsoft game again. So you will get only more botters and less players the way it goes now |
Thankfully the number of players that got mistakenly banned seems very low, and hopefully once Anet/NCsoft has gotten past all the botters QQ'ing about their supposed innocence the truly innocent players will be dealt with fairly, and get their accounts back...
As for Anet, banned botters who were undoubtedly botting and still try to plead their innocence despite extensive botting in game... IP Block, ban based on credit card etc... if they want to dick around and waste supports time... well, just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO them right off with a "and don't come back" response. The second they buy GW2 and set up an account, ban them there too. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO'em.
Sorry, tired of all the whine.
shoyon456
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Originally Posted by Nerel
So what you're saying is? Anet should redouble their efforts and ban MORE botters? Sounds like a plan.
As for Anet, banned botters who were undoubtedly botting and still try to plead their innocence despite extensive botting in game... IP Block, ban based on credit card etc... if they want to dick around and waste supports time... well, just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO them right off with a "and don't come back" response. The second they buy GW2 and set up an account, ban them there too. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO'em. Sorry, tired of all the whine. |
These asshats are already figuring out how to evade Anet's new detection measures and what enabled some of them to get away. Soon they'll be working on more bots that work around Anet's measures. Pony up Anet, the battle is won but the war is far from over.
Davros Uitar
Geesh - so the war wasn't one with a single stroke of the ban-scythe. Anet never promised it would be. The botters they removed this time was not a complete clean out, but it is a damn good start and shows that they are acting on an issue that the community wanted action on.
Yes there are still clever bots out there, yes there is more work to do. If you know someone then make a report rather than have a QQ about why there weren't more bans.
You don't delay action on 3700 so that you can get 5000 - you pick a time, you act on what you can, then you pick up your fork and start loading on the next mouthful.
JOB WELL DONE - KEEP UP WHAT YOU HAVE STARTED.
Yes there are still clever bots out there, yes there is more work to do. If you know someone then make a report rather than have a QQ about why there weren't more bans.
You don't delay action on 3700 so that you can get 5000 - you pick a time, you act on what you can, then you pick up your fork and start loading on the next mouthful.
JOB WELL DONE - KEEP UP WHAT YOU HAVE STARTED.
Ashius
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Originally Posted by Ashius
Sorry to disagree with you here, but I personally think that the universal perma-ban response by A-net was a bit harsh. It would be reasonable to say that the largest portion of those banned were people who have probably only tried these third-party programs out of curiosity, and that only a small percentage of those banned were actually the hardcore bot abusers who gained a significant advantage from this.
If the aim of A-net was to eliminate these serious offenders, then I suggest that this was not met. These serious offenders are likely to have numerous accounts where their wealth is stored, and if they were actually considering selling this gold, they would have resources in place to prevent the loss of their assets. Like I previously stated, they would have numerous accounts, and as it is possible to have an alternating IP address, it is likely that these accounts were not detected. These types of botters have no regard for the game, they use it as a source of revenue and it really doesn't matter to them whether they get one or even a few of their accounts banned. They will still find a way to access Guild Wars, and abuse it as there is never a surefire way to prevent bots in any MMO. These bans haven't really addressed the real issue at stake, which is the serious abusers of these bots. What they have done is heaped the minor offenders, who like I said probably tried these bots out of curiousity rather than as a way to gain an unfair advantage, with the serious offenders and issued the same punishment. And this has only really affected those minor offenders, as they would probably still value the game for its gameplay and are likely upset. This is not an issue for the serious botters. I believe the punishment should suit the crime, and that each account should have been reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Instead, those minor offenders have suffered the same fate as those who were serious offenders. As it seems that the GW Guru community seems to like their real-life metaphors, I'd like to compare this to a petty criminal who suffers the same fate as a leader of a major crime organisation. This shouldn't happen in any case, so why let it happen on Guild Wars? P.S... I wasn't one of those who were banned, I have just been thinking about this since the announcement of the bans, and I think it raises some valid points. Sorry for the long read ^^ |
A post I have made on another thread, which I think brings up some valid points
majoho
^ curiosity killed the cat.
Seriously don't use the whole, "everyone did it so I wanted to try it out just to see what it was" and then now own up to your ban was well deserved.
The vast majority of people are sensible enough to NOT bot.
Seriously don't use the whole, "everyone did it so I wanted to try it out just to see what it was" and then now own up to your ban was well deserved.
The vast majority of people are sensible enough to NOT bot.
Ashius
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Originally Posted by majoho
^ curiosity killed the cat.
Seriously don't use the whole, "everyone did it so I wanted to try it out just to see what it was" and then now own up to your ban was well deserved. The vast majority of people are sensible enough to NOT bot. |
There are players who I know that were banned after playing for 5 years, never receiving one black mark, and were banned because they injected once. This is still obviously against the rules, but they shouldn't be thrown in with the bots who farmed hours on end and earned $1000's from it.
The concept for the mass ban was a good idea, but there is one major flaw in it, which was the huge blanket response for violating accounts.
Gli
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Originally Posted by Ashius
But surely you see where I'm coming from? The blanket response to botting that A-Net used is like punishing a shoplifter and mass murderer in the same matter.
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Scammers might be compared to shoplifters. You should be talking about murderers and mass murderers. Both end up on death row when caught.
Ashius
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Originally Posted by Gli
Wrong analogy.
Scammers might be compared to shoplifters. You should be talking about murderers and mass murderers. Both end up on death row when caught. |
snaek
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Originally Posted by Gli
You should be talking about murderers and mass murderers. Both end up on death row when caught.
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tbh though, i don't think an assault/murder analogy is good at all. botting really only has an economical effect, id rather go with a theft analogy. for example, stealing candy from a candy store vs grand theft auto.
Ashius
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Originally Posted by snaek
what about assault? those that loaded up a bot to check it out, but didn't actually make any money from it?
tbh though, i don't think an assault/murder analogy is good at all. botting really only has an economical effect, id rather go with a theft analogy. for example, stealing candy from a candy store vs grand theft auto. |
Gill Halendt
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Originally Posted by snaek
tbh though, i don't think an assault/murder analogy is good at all. botting really only has an economical effect, id rather go with a theft analogy. for example, stealing candy from a candy store vs grand theft auto.
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It's not always the magnitude that varies here, it's the frequency.
snaek
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
I'd rather go for, stealing a candy once and stealing candies everyday.
It's not always the magnitude that varies here, it's the frequency. |
Gli
All this talk about degrees is just pointless though. There are no degrees.
There's just a line, a line between using a bot and not using a bot. Cross it, and face the consequences.
That just leaves all the crying about double standards. I don't claim to know why some people were banned and others are still merrily botting away. But it doesn't matter with regard to the people who were banned. It doesn't make sense to require that something is either done perfectly, or not at all. If they can't catch them all, that shouldn't stop them from catching some.
There's just a line, a line between using a bot and not using a bot. Cross it, and face the consequences.
That just leaves all the crying about double standards. I don't claim to know why some people were banned and others are still merrily botting away. But it doesn't matter with regard to the people who were banned. It doesn't make sense to require that something is either done perfectly, or not at all. If they can't catch them all, that shouldn't stop them from catching some.
Ashius
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
I'd rather go for, stealing a candy once and stealing candies everyday.
It's not always the magnitude that varies here, it's the frequency. |
Lost_Score
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Originally Posted by Ashius
Exactly. There are varying levels of offence, and as such the punishment should vary with this.
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Ashius
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Originally Posted by Gli
All this talk about degrees is just pointless though. There are no degrees.
There's just a line, a line between using a bot and not using a bot. Cross it, and face the consequences. That just leaves all the crying about double standards. I don't claim to know why some people were banned and others are still merrily botting away. But it doesn't matter with regard to the people who were banned. It doesn't make sense to require that something is either done perfectly, or not at all. If they can't catch them all, that shouldn't stop them from catching some. |
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Originally Posted by Lost_Score
so if i stole an almond joy, arguably the most disgusting candy of all time, what would happen?
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Gli
Pointing at other people who do worse never helps as a defense.
Ashius
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Originally Posted by Gli
Pointing at other people who do worse never helps as a defense.
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Gill Halendt
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Originally Posted by Ashius
Exactly. There are varying levels of offence, and as such the punishment should vary with this.
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Covah
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Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
Sure. But account termination is the most basic form of punishment Anet can administer.
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