So which of those 7 hero builds are working?
Third
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzjudz
You have already indicated the greatest problem of playing a support role with heroes: heroes aren't really proactive fighters without some guidance. The best tip is probably that on your monk you might be better off playing a smiter. Otherwise, maybe something like an AP Boon-Prot will allow you to call targets for your heroes, this is especially helpful with Discord heroes. I find AP Boon-Prot fun to play as well (trying to get out as many Selfless Spirits + Aegises + Seeds of Life with AP 
), but you may find otherwise. If you want to stick to a pure support role, you might consider switching your Discord heroes for something else.
Thank you for your answer!
AP Boon-Prot looks very fun indeed, I had not thought of. I'll try it! But actually if i want to stick to a pure support role, what can I redeem my 3 N Discord for? What are the other teams that are different from the Discordway and can be more efficient for me?
), but you may find otherwise. If you want to stick to a pure support role, you might consider switching your Discord heroes for something else.
Thank you for your answer!AP Boon-Prot looks very fun indeed, I had not thought of. I'll try it
! But actually if i want to stick to a pure support role, what can I redeem my 3 N Discord for? What are the other teams that are different from the Discordway and can be more efficient for me?
Dzjudz
I'd say: 2 rits (SoS and ST), 2 mesmers (Panic/ESurge and Ineptitude), an MM (AotL/Jagged Bones), a curse prot necro and a 7th optional hero such as a commandagon or a dedicated resto necro.
therlye
I've only recently come back and just started playing around with the 7 hero groups and i still have some elites to capture but i generally go with a modified sabway 2 mesmers (panic and ineptitude) 2 warriors (100 blades with bleed/deep wound) and a SF ele.
Depending on which character i'm playing i'll replace one of those or drop one of the war/mes/ele, and normal mode is a piece of cake, only tough part so far was 3 dolyak masters with a 6 man group (1 war and 1 mes) but still made it through.
Depending on which character i'm playing i'll replace one of those or drop one of the war/mes/ele, and normal mode is a piece of cake, only tough part so far was 3 dolyak masters with a 6 man group (1 war and 1 mes) but still made it through.
psi101101
Just gettin back into the game after a year and tryin to do some vanquishing.. am i on the right track??? critiques would be helpful lol
my main is the first para..
my main is the first para..
greenough
if your just vanquishing then that is to much defense. way to much.
psi101101
yea its only for vanquishing.. what would u change??? my mind isnt as broad like it use to be lol
Haggis of Doom
Get rid of Discord. Put in ER protter, Orders and either a Mesmer or a MM. The Commandagon needs GftE and Anthem of Envy. Prolly should get rid of the Motigon and grab another Commandagon, too.
Also, having a hero carrying Anthem of Flame to keep up your AR = win.
In case you don't micro (which I imagine you don't), ST > SoGM. With ST on your communing hero's bar, you can slot in Shelter. Enfeebling Blood is not needed when you have Anthem of Weariness.
What you basically did was to throw Discordway, half-Spiritway and Racway together. While you certainly could've picked worse pvx bars, this shouldn't be your mentality when you make a 7h team.
Also, having a hero carrying Anthem of Flame to keep up your AR = win.
In case you don't micro (which I imagine you don't), ST > SoGM. With ST on your communing hero's bar, you can slot in Shelter. Enfeebling Blood is not needed when you have Anthem of Weariness.
What you basically did was to throw Discordway, half-Spiritway and Racway together. While you certainly could've picked worse pvx bars, this shouldn't be your mentality when you make a 7h team.
psi101101
ah thanks for tip...
Kaida the Heartless
I'd take Dual "Fall Back!"'s over Anthem of Flame if I had to choose between the two. Anthem of Flame works on Spirits, but as an AR maintainer, you need to stop to use it. "FB!" also gets you to the next mob faster and makes sure your minions are at least healthy enough to survive a casting of Death Nova.
Daesu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
Anthem of Flame works on Spirits,
I dont think that is true. Anthem of Flame only works on party members, not allies.
SongOf
Correct, Anthem of Flame works only on party members.
The build will get you through all areas no problem, but as a personal preference I stay away from spirits in a vanquishing build. Vanquish battles are very brief and just outside of reach from each other (vs mission 'epic' battles which tend to be longer and stationary), so spirit heroes are on constant strain in terms of recharge and energy. It's up to you though, especially if you need to power Spirit Light.
Not mandatory, but a spike heal such as Spirit Transfer in place of your third Kaolai could save you some deaths. When a party member is literally about to die but Mend and Light are on recharge they drop and waste Kaolai anyway.
4 res is overkill for Vanquish, especially since you don't permanently party wipe back to outpost. 3 seems to be the golden number for reses.
From my experiences, Recovery is not worth it b/c heroes will spam Mend until all conditions are gone anyway.
I don't think I see any hex removal, 2 Hex Eater Signets is more than enough and can easily fit on any hero not using their secondary yet.
2 Enfeebling Blood may be overkill since it's both aoe and short recharge.
2 Fall Backs! is a godsend in vanquish builds, nearly permanent IMS.
The build will get you through all areas no problem, but as a personal preference I stay away from spirits in a vanquishing build. Vanquish battles are very brief and just outside of reach from each other (vs mission 'epic' battles which tend to be longer and stationary), so spirit heroes are on constant strain in terms of recharge and energy. It's up to you though, especially if you need to power Spirit Light.
Not mandatory, but a spike heal such as Spirit Transfer in place of your third Kaolai could save you some deaths. When a party member is literally about to die but Mend and Light are on recharge they drop and waste Kaolai anyway.
4 res is overkill for Vanquish, especially since you don't permanently party wipe back to outpost. 3 seems to be the golden number for reses.
From my experiences, Recovery is not worth it b/c heroes will spam Mend until all conditions are gone anyway.
I don't think I see any hex removal, 2 Hex Eater Signets is more than enough and can easily fit on any hero not using their secondary yet.
2 Enfeebling Blood may be overkill since it's both aoe and short recharge.
2 Fall Backs! is a godsend in vanquish builds, nearly permanent IMS.
chuckles79
So the general consensus is for the most effective AI/heroes team most commonly consists of at least the following 6.
3 discords, the meta/wiki version typically.
1 SoS support (I go Rt/Mo and bring two hex removals for giggles)
1 panic mes with hex eater sig for cover
1 ineptitude spammer mes
I play a paragon so the million dollar question, what's a great offensive hero build to go with this combo?
3 discords, the meta/wiki version typically.
1 SoS support (I go Rt/Mo and bring two hex removals for giggles)
1 panic mes with hex eater sig for cover
1 ineptitude spammer mes
I play a paragon so the million dollar question, what's a great offensive hero build to go with this combo?
AndrewSX
Great offense w/o use Mes(already taken)?
My ideas:
-RoJ(Aoe dmg, hex+cond removal, can slot some nice utility).
-2nd Rit(probably SOGM).
-Umh...maybe Derv or War, with proper build? Meele AI sucks, so it isn't that reliable for dmg.
If playing NM stuff...Ele?
My ideas:
-RoJ(Aoe dmg, hex+cond removal, can slot some nice utility).
-2nd Rit(probably SOGM).
-Umh...maybe Derv or War, with proper build? Meele AI sucks, so it isn't that reliable for dmg.
If playing NM stuff...Ele?
Alex_Sinter
hi, i'm just looking for some impressions/suggestions, it's the first time that i post a build here.. i've tried it in some areas, but not in elite/high end HM, and i usually play it with a melee or barrage ranger. here's the build:
thank you for any suggestion!
thank you for any suggestion!
Outerworld
Alex_Sinter
Kaida the Heartless
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
I dont think that is true. Anthem of Flame only works on party members, not allies.
Got me. My mistake.
Han Fastolfe
So i have been doing DoA HM lately with this build. I did everything except aargh and the fury because i aggroed 3 titan mobs in the 5th room and died. Originally i ran a communing rit, but the defensive spirits didn't synergise too well with the minions so i dropped it in favor of the ER. But still the team is quite fragile especially at To the rescue! and foundry 3rd room and its survival depends more on luck than anything else(interestingly putrid explosion helps a lot at To the rescue!, it wasn't even close without it, but now usually only 4-5 monsters survive and wipe us out). So i would appreciate any suggestion because i have no idea how the build could be improven..
btw all heros have mayor runes(I'm not sure if its worth the health loss) spears and doa shields and the necros have +10 armor insignias
Lethal Primate
Han Fastolfe
i tried to go dragon slash sy spammer but it doesn't really work at To the rescue
because even if i micro convert hexes they reapply soothing almost instantly and even if i can keep it off of me i need energy to reapply scan every few seconds otherwise i cant hit because the gloom effect..
because even if i micro convert hexes they reapply soothing almost instantly and even if i can keep it off of me i need energy to reapply scan every few seconds otherwise i cant hit because the gloom effect..
Azazello
Been working on a build that uses pretty standard pve bars, but no mm or offensive spirits, a pair of melee instead. Two Scythes and two splinter weapons is a ton of offense, so I just run 5 defensive bars along with the melee.
So far tested in:
Raisu Palace - 9:57
Hell's Precipice - 12 minutes
Glints (NM) - 2107
Double pull outside Rata Sum (angorodon and raptor) - 0 deaths
VQs - Majesty's rest, Joko's domain
Only micromanagement of heroes was 'flag all'. Will post times for ToPK and FoW in the next few days. Also took it to Rand/Thommis with one modification, FS instead of enfeebling blood, but posted a pretty poor time of 32 minutes.
So far tested in:
Raisu Palace - 9:57
Hell's Precipice - 12 minutes
Glints (NM) - 2107
Double pull outside Rata Sum (angorodon and raptor) - 0 deaths
VQs - Majesty's rest, Joko's domain
Only micromanagement of heroes was 'flag all'. Will post times for ToPK and FoW in the next few days. Also took it to Rand/Thommis with one modification, FS instead of enfeebling blood, but posted a pretty poor time of 32 minutes.
mortenya
will an ST prot hero reliably cast shelter before union? or is that just microed?
hunter
trash the hero Derv, since melee AI is rediculously bad. Sub in a smiter monk.
Change 1 rit to SoS resto. remove necro channeler (hero 7) and throw in a proper UA monk)
Bar #8 can be whatever you want, either 3rd mes, or ER prot or even command para (though not recommended since para heroes suck)
Change 1 rit to SoS resto. remove necro channeler (hero 7) and throw in a proper UA monk)
Bar #8 can be whatever you want, either 3rd mes, or ER prot or even command para (though not recommended since para heroes suck)
Azazello
@Mortenya, tbh, I haven't even watched her. It's up correctly often enough however, to the point where it stands out if I take full 10% of my health from some attack.
@Hunter bar 8 is me, both dervs are heroes, and they do just fine. They're retarded of course (mainly in regards to aoe dots), but since they kill everything in seconds, it doesn't matter. Swapping out a splinter weapon would change that dramatically. I've run it with a smiter (RoJ/JI/SoH/inspiration stuff iirc) and it does improve the killing speed but it takes a whole bar to do what one skill does.
It's still worthwhile if you want to drop defense. Consider JI adds about 14-15 damage to a scythe, SoH @14 adds 24, you're looking at 38 damage added per hit, dervs attacking once a second = 38 dps per target being hit per derv. If they're hitting 3 targets each, you're talking about ~225 dps. It's a lot more than the ~50 added by a copy of splinter weapon @14 on 3 targets, or ~75 if there are 4 enemies adjacent to each other, but splinter weapon costs nothing to bring on most bars.
The whole build evolved by me dropping anything offensively that was hard to fit but didn't have much impact. The smiter had a fair bit of impact but took an entire bar to do anything useful and hogged interrupt space for emanagement.
@Hunter bar 8 is me, both dervs are heroes, and they do just fine. They're retarded of course (mainly in regards to aoe dots), but since they kill everything in seconds, it doesn't matter. Swapping out a splinter weapon would change that dramatically. I've run it with a smiter (RoJ/JI/SoH/inspiration stuff iirc) and it does improve the killing speed but it takes a whole bar to do what one skill does.
It's still worthwhile if you want to drop defense. Consider JI adds about 14-15 damage to a scythe, SoH @14 adds 24, you're looking at 38 damage added per hit, dervs attacking once a second = 38 dps per target being hit per derv. If they're hitting 3 targets each, you're talking about ~225 dps. It's a lot more than the ~50 added by a copy of splinter weapon @14 on 3 targets, or ~75 if there are 4 enemies adjacent to each other, but splinter weapon costs nothing to bring on most bars.
The whole build evolved by me dropping anything offensively that was hard to fit but didn't have much impact. The smiter had a fair bit of impact but took an entire bar to do anything useful and hogged interrupt space for emanagement.
outlaw161
Drop union...honestly from about 12 vqs with it...not worth the skill slot you only need shelter there
AndrewSX
The only thing really wrong in that team is Preservation.
The rest is perfectly able to steam-roll most of PvE.
The rest is perfectly able to steam-roll most of PvE.
Azazello
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewSX
The only thing really wrong in that team is Preservation.
The rest is perfectly able to steam-roll most of PvE. Haha yeah I know but what else is there? I don't need more degen, I don't need more emanagement, I hate spending healer energy on elemental damage, weapon spells conflict with splinter weapon, and there's nothing else in any of those attribute lines.
I could run SoS @10 channeling, but I've been running SoS on my character lately. Tried AP caller, AP MoP nuker, AP death nuker, and SoS so far, the AP caller doesn't really work but the others are fine. Any kind of tank build would be amazing, I should figure something out.
Oh and @Outlaw, union prevents 410 damage, ~770 with armor of unfeeling. It's the worst of the three but it's still pretty good against pressure for 10 energy. You're probably right though, it eats ST charges for not much benefit, could definitely use a long lasting offensive spirit there.
So a modified version for a player not running sos would be:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3458/trial4nosos.jpg
Although agony might be better than bloodsong in that spot.
The rest is perfectly able to steam-roll most of PvE. Haha yeah I know but what else is there? I don't need more degen, I don't need more emanagement, I hate spending healer energy on elemental damage, weapon spells conflict with splinter weapon, and there's nothing else in any of those attribute lines.
I could run SoS @10 channeling, but I've been running SoS on my character lately. Tried AP caller, AP MoP nuker, AP death nuker, and SoS so far, the AP caller doesn't really work but the others are fine. Any kind of tank build would be amazing, I should figure something out.
Oh and @Outlaw, union prevents 410 damage, ~770 with armor of unfeeling. It's the worst of the three but it's still pretty good against pressure for 10 energy. You're probably right though, it eats ST charges for not much benefit, could definitely use a long lasting offensive spirit there.
So a modified version for a player not running sos would be:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3458/trial4nosos.jpg
Although agony might be better than bloodsong in that spot.
AndrewSX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azazello
Haha yeah I know but what else is there?
Eh, i know. Resto elites are quite meh...this is the reason because for pure heals i prefer Monks.
Also, preservation is on the Nec/Rit...most of ppl use Icy veins as elite in that case. Reaper's mark/Wail of doom are SR elites too...but the problem is still there.
Also, preservation is on the Nec/Rit...most of ppl use Icy veins as elite in that case. Reaper's mark/Wail of doom are SR elites too...but the problem is still there.
Azazello
Yeah I typically run reaper's on N/Rt healers, but I just don't need any more degen/emanagement. I hate IV in PvE, does wail of doom work?
AndrewSX
Wail of doom can be actually useful if used right. A ele boss in hm isn't really dangerous if Fire magic is set @ 0. If heroes use it right is another thing.
Anyway, considered the options, i'd say that if you don't want Xinrae/remedy preservation is pretty much the only choice. Not good, but the only who came to my mind atm, if sticking with resto nec.
Anyway, considered the options, i'd say that if you don't want Xinrae/remedy preservation is pretty much the only choice. Not good, but the only who came to my mind atm, if sticking with resto nec.
outlaw161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azazello
Haha yeah I know but what else is there? I don't need more degen, I don't need more emanagement, I hate spending healer energy on elemental damage, weapon spells conflict with splinter weapon, and there's nothing else in any of those attribute lines.
I could run SoS @10 channeling, but I've been running SoS on my character lately. Tried AP caller, AP MoP nuker, AP death nuker, and SoS so far, the AP caller doesn't really work but the others are fine. Any kind of tank build would be amazing, I should figure something out.
Oh and @Outlaw, union prevents 410 damage, ~770 with armor of unfeeling. It's the worst of the three but it's still pretty good against pressure for 10 energy. You're probably right though, it eats ST charges for not much benefit, could definitely use a long lasting offensive spirit there.
So a modified version for a player not running sos would be:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3458/trial4nosos.jpg
Although agony might be better than bloodsong in that spot. Yeah its decent...but when u think of it most fights the enemy shouldnt do so much damage and union just doesnt worth it 15 dmg reduce...Dissosnce can inturpt also reducing damage beacuse skill isnt casted against you and also cause more DPS
I could run SoS @10 channeling, but I've been running SoS on my character lately. Tried AP caller, AP MoP nuker, AP death nuker, and SoS so far, the AP caller doesn't really work but the others are fine. Any kind of tank build would be amazing, I should figure something out.
Oh and @Outlaw, union prevents 410 damage, ~770 with armor of unfeeling. It's the worst of the three but it's still pretty good against pressure for 10 energy. You're probably right though, it eats ST charges for not much benefit, could definitely use a long lasting offensive spirit there.
So a modified version for a player not running sos would be:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3458/trial4nosos.jpg
Although agony might be better than bloodsong in that spot. Yeah its decent...but when u think of it most fights the enemy shouldnt do so much damage and union just doesnt worth it 15 dmg reduce...Dissosnce can inturpt also reducing damage beacuse skill isnt casted against you and also cause more DPS
Ghull Ka
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw161
Yeah its decent...but when u think of it most fights the enemy shouldnt do so much damage and union just doesnt worth it 15 dmg reduce...Dissosnce can inturpt also reducing damage beacuse skill isnt casted against you and also cause more DPS
He could sub in a Weaken Armor for Union on that bar to help out the scythe damage. The only other cracked armor in the team is from one derv's Staggering Force, I think. I agree that the numbers Union suggests are nice, but ditching it means less chance that Shelter gets put on cooldown. I definitely don't suggest subbing in a different binding ritual. Leave them ST charges for Shelter.
With cracked armor in the mix, he could then sub in an Icy Veins for that Preservation - the elemental damage it does would be more meaningful. Heroes do tend to spam the crap out of Icy Veins, I think it could be a good addition with some cracked armor.*
I like having a couple melee heroes in the mix. Sometimes (not often) they can set up a nice body block and really make me smile. And I totally agree, two scythes and two splinters tends to flatten clumps of enemies pretty quick, especially if you can EVAS your pull to keep the enemies good and clumped for when your dervs get there.
*edit, note: i prefer reaper's mark on my n/rt healers, heh, but nobody here ever mentions it
With cracked armor in the mix, he could then sub in an Icy Veins for that Preservation - the elemental damage it does would be more meaningful. Heroes do tend to spam the crap out of Icy Veins, I think it could be a good addition with some cracked armor.*
I like having a couple melee heroes in the mix. Sometimes (not often) they can set up a nice body block and really make me smile. And I totally agree, two scythes and two splinters tends to flatten clumps of enemies pretty quick, especially if you can EVAS your pull to keep the enemies good and clumped for when your dervs get there.
*edit, note: i prefer reaper's mark on my n/rt healers, heh, but nobody here ever mentions it
Slabberdewatski
I love this forum got alot of good new builds.
This is what i have now please comment.
Notes:
I'm not sure if the dual monk mimic is going to work, because internet is laggy i havent tested it yet.
Should i replace one of the monks (and which) with an emo or a st?
What about my own build does it need more enchants for the healing with AoD?
The SoS was my brothers idea, like this it does good damage, but not sure if its optimal.
Thanks!
AndrewSX
In short:
Your bar is plenty of room for improvements imo.
I'd change te HB to a ER/ST protter: move the 4 heals to UA bars(replacing patient with Heaven's Delight).
MM in last 3 skillslots and SoS instead of Rift/Spirit Boon Stirke can carry lots of utility(smiting prayers/command shouts/resto heals/prots).
Mes are standard, should works fine. Dunno on para.
P.S: srry for short response, i don't have so much time for write down atm. :P
Your bar is plenty of room for improvements imo.
I'd change te HB to a ER/ST protter: move the 4 heals to UA bars(replacing patient with Heaven's Delight).
MM in last 3 skillslots and SoS instead of Rift/Spirit Boon Stirke can carry lots of utility(smiting prayers/command shouts/resto heals/prots).
Mes are standard, should works fine. Dunno on para.
P.S: srry for short response, i don't have so much time for write down atm. :P
Vadog
Now, want to test this
outlaw161