Levels, leveling, level caps, and level 20

i would like to see the level cap raised to 30,40, or even 50 (preferred higher) in the next patch or expansion... because it will raise the bar for this game and make it kick WoW's and lineage's A** even more... PLEASE RAISE IT!

YES... i am in it for the rewards or LEVEL EXP and new weapons, etc, to have seniority over the other RPG'ers... PVP should be alone.. (pvp only characters) and RPG'ers should not be PVP ... and they sould just open a mod where two RPG'ers could fighht 1v1 but RPG'ers shouldnt go to big PVP battles. My oppinion ... and most people i talked to.. was their oppinion too... LEVEL CAP RAISED!

[QUOTE=Sausaletus Rex]

No, no one knows exactly how long it will take you to reach the cap just yet. The estimate is somewhere betwen one to two days of continuous play but might well be wrong.

QUOTE]

One to two days? Guild Wars? I must have purchased the one to two years version.

I am very, VERY happy with both the low level cap and the speed at which you can get to it. One of the biggest frustrations I've ever had in MMO's is watching everyone else go sailing past me as I've gotten bogged down in real life work, and then got to hear about all the uber quests they get to go on/see the joy of high level PK'ing disrupting my questing. Now not only do I have to worry about falling behind as it's so easy to catch up (currently highest level in my guild and that's after 4 days of wibbling over prof choices ), but my biggest fear that kept me off MMO's - other players - is completely unfounded as I can choose who I want to be with and when they get too much I grab some henchies and go solo.

from the game people themselves.
most of the game is for the level 20 characters and you are just getting started.
note the part about future chapters as well
the content is for all of us not a few elite higher level characters who want to lord it over new people

from GW
Guild Wars, in contrast, is based around your skill as a player. Our maximum level is twenty and you hit that very quickly, after about 20-30 hours of play. ,We call that 'The Point of Ascension'. Almost all of the content in the game and in the future Chapters is only available to Ascended characters, which means we don't have to worry about providing different levels of content. All the good stuff will be available to everyone. It's not our intent to force people onto the levelling up treadmill, so the level cap in Guild Wars is almost meaningless.

how many times do true GW players have to say this: The game BEGINS at level 20!!! Going up levels to get to level 20 is basically a tutorial to get into the true part of the game. Heres a simple graph to represent the game:

<-------><----------><------------------------------------------------------->
Level 1-7 - Level 8-20 - Level 20 on

Trust me, you will not get bored with this game. I don't get why people think the game simply "ends" once you get to level 20. The game begins at level 20. There is so much to do once you get to level 20. All the new chapters and expansions they release later will be designed for level 20 players. There will be a lot more content than you think.

It will be very interesting to see how they manage this. The thing about most RPG's is that leveling is also about learning new spells/combat moves. So after level 20 will there still be new spells you can learn? I mean being limited to 8 spells during a mission is fine, EQ did it that way too. But if we are limited to the same spells that we get at level 20 forever, it will have a severe impact on 'character building.'

So here is another question, if a level cap at 20 makes sense, and never extending the level cap is the 'right way to do it.' Why have any levels? Why not just make everyone level 1 and be done with it?

because nobody would buy it because they could not advance at all

from game officials are comments concerning additional
skills
professions
even races
additional character account slots to accomodate the above

with as much new content as the entite present game in the next chapter you can bet it will be not good but excellent.

they knoe it has to be terrific to get most of the present buyers to get it and make people who havent gotten it yet go OMG i have to get BOTH of them (maybe even a package deal with a discount)

Silly to even bring the topic up in my opinion, especially right after the game is released. Basically asks a bunch of people (who probably haven't reached the level cap yet OR finished all of the PVE content) if they want more grind added to what they already have to finish. I hit level 20 by the time I got to the Crystal Desert, and I could have EASILY hit 25 by the time I finished a couple missions past Droknar's Forge. I think they probably set the level cap a bit too low to begin with, so I wouldn't be against raising it to 25 in the first expansion. I think a lot of people will be changing their minds and wanting more levels once they begin to get bored with being the max level and having nowhere to advance to (and it will happen). As it stands now, even the level 20 people still have goals to complete, which gives them something to do. A lot of people are still looking for upgraded armor and better items, getting the last 30 attribute points, finishing the PvE missions, capturing elite skills, exploring new locations, etc..

The more and more I find out about/play this game, the more similar it sounds to Phantasy Star Online (not that PSO had a low level cap, but read on). Though PSO never had a large member base like this, it had player specific worlds that you had to be in the same party with a person to play the world with them, it had several quests which were done mainly for challenge and items, it had no monthly fee (until later versions), and it focused on a large amount of items, especially weapons. I loved PSO, btw... I like where this is going, if only my laptop did not crash so much... I may buy a whole new stinking computer.

Currently, level 20's can go back and kill lower level monsters for the gold and items that they drop. This is typically boring as all get out and only done if you really need a certain item. Raising the level cap would only serve to make more and more of the game boring. A level 30 would find 95% of the current game pointless to explore. So raising the level cap is equivalent to making the current game boring. Look to DAoC for an example. They buy into "MUDflation = more money" model and they ruined a perfectly wonderful game. Had they spent half as much time making their game better, rather than simply expanding it, DAoC would be a top runner in the genre rather than the has been game that it is.

Raising the cap is bad for the game. Giving players new goals to reach for is not. There should be plenty of new content devised for level 20's to do. There should also be new classes added to further challenge existing players. There should be more that a 20 can do, in terms of PvP and PvE.

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with the cap and I could go either way. My frustration lies within the difference between RP players, and PvP players in the Tomb of Primeval Kings. I've been capped at 20 for a few days now, and I've been getting guildmates through the desert and ascended so we can enter the Tomb and try for a sigil. So for the last few days, I've been fiddling around in the Tomb with some pick-up parties. If you've done this before, you probably have the same complaint as myself, and that's that some PvP only people enter and haven't a clue what the hell they are doing.

I had a warrior in my party the other day who didn't know how to target. A Mesmer who didn't know what Power Spike or Backfire was... Next we're going to have Monk's who focus as Smiters and don't bring along any healing spells.

When you play through the RP game of Guild Wars, it's like a tutorial on how to play, and how to play your "job" well. Honestly they should eliminate the ability for PvP only players to enter the tomb. They can still enter the other arena's and such, but the tomb should be for people who actually work to get there by playing through the game itself.


To sum up my post basically:

Tomb of Primeval Kings = RP only

Other arena's = Open to PvP and RP

truth

many people have stated getting to 20 is the real tutorial and the game really begins at that point.

nicely stated

If you makea PvP character you can.

Reading the poll, I see most people don't want a level cap increase. To be honest, I do not want such a thing either. That would add more hit points, and making foes in the PvE less powerful. It would be a bane of the game. Instead, they could increase the skill points cap. Currently, it's 200 skill points. Maybe they could increase it by 50? Or just 25? Then you would have more powerful characters, without making them increadibly more powerful. Yet, this would make a larger arrange of skills more effective, so they should be careful with this idea to...

Consider.

-------------------------------------
Darynael Mistwalker
European Elementalist/Mesmer
-------------------------------------

I like games that take forever to max out... that's just too short.

Sorry, I'm not reading every post, just posting my two cents;
Why do people want it raised from 20 to anything? It's the exact same as a game with 100 levels, it just takes five times longer to get there. THere's no difference at all, it's just proportional... 100 levels, 20 levels, 10 levels, same amount of time needed, it's just a different number assigned to your name. Why complain?

Now, if you wanted it harder to level up, that makes sense, but most people complain about that too.

the thing about this game is that its about skill and the higher the level cap the more it becomes a game of time not skill

spend your time on PvP after u max out, or play WoW

I agree with Kiwi this game isnt all about Grinding its actually strategy and being smart.

I just passed from Lvl 9 to 10 with my Ranger/Necro and I did not get any attribute points. Prior to leveling up, I re assigned a few attribute points to better benefit from curses skills etc... and used about 6 "buy back points" so that I was at 18/24.

Now that I am level 10, I do not have those points you get when you level up, I just have 1 point left over from my re-arrangements that I did PRIOr to the levelling.

Any ideas or I should take it up with NCSOFT support ?

aight ill break it down for ya

I believe they should raise the cap with each expansion
BUT instead of the whole lvl 1-15 or whatnot in an arena they should have a more distinguished set going up by 5 or so like lions arch, lvl 15-20 only and so on. that would make it be a no noob gangbang world.

you know when the release is? I also just joined today and I haven't read up much on GW.

If you ask me these "david and goliath" situations are hard to prevent, even in this game. And that will be more clear in the coming months.
The level 20 cap does seem promising in preventing the campers/greifers. But some say there is a level playing feild for all level 20s seems like a bit of a fallacy to me. It also seems a bit off that you don't need to spend time playing this game to do good. And that its based totally on skill.

First you gain skill points past level 20, so over time you will have a level 20 with ALOT of options and skills. Than a person just getting to lvl 20 would not have, thus giving him an advantage..and how did he get those skills past lvl 20?..Spending time playing the game =P

Second the items, not every lvl 20 is going to have the same items, some will have gear that has been dropped from heaven..others won't. Something like this makes a huge difference in strength that goes beyond what your lvl indicates. How do you get good items? spending time playing the game =P..in most cases (shakes his fist at ebay).

Third, the expansions. From reading the site we pay for the expansion for content, and I think thats awesome, I would gladly pay. But what if you compare a player that has all these expansions to a player that does not? I mean new items, skills and others that some players won't have acess to giving a huge advantage.

Just looking at the lvl 20 cap its easy to think this game is based on skill alone, but the fact remains, its an rpg, and as such you gotta spend time playing it to get better. A first person shooter, or an RTS is a decent example of a game that doesn't require you spending alot of time, they are based on skill alone.
Don't get me wrong this is a great game, and I am loving the lvl 20 cap as much as you guys, I just don't see how you come to these conclusions that every lvl 20 will be the same, plus not needing to spend loads of time to play =/.

Fixed my grammer somewhat >.>

I am at level cap (20) but I only have 170 attribute points. Can anyone tell me why?

The main problem is about the requests is that your trying to turn GW into the same kind of MMO games that have been around a while. Including races would vary the looks of characters and therefore allow more individualism though i dont feel that they should have additional attributes as that is going along the same point i am making.
I play the game occasionally and im still on the learning curve but im loving it all the same. The only thing i would ask for is a slightly bigger skills bar (+2 more woluld help) iif you want big lvl caps and better stat configuration then play something like Ragnarok. your offered a free service to play a game with so many people around the world, enjoy the experience and not manipulate it.

In my opinion they should raise the level cap to say 50 or whatever in the P vs E......but in P vs P drop everyones level to 20...........for the people who hasn't reached 20 yet they shouldn't be allowed to enter P vs P

This is an interesting idea, but it's one of the things that turned people off from games like Lineage II -- You couldn't really 'play' the game unless you put in hours and hours of level grinding to get your character up to a competitive level.

there are 2 additional hard qusts worth 15 each

dont worry as you did not accidently pass over them

it is for all of us not just the neet grinding eleete

here is why it stays from GW itself

Guild Wars, in contrast, is based around your skill as a player. Our maximum level is twenty and you hit that very quickly, after about 20-30 hours of play. ,We call that 'The Point of Ascension'. Almost all of the content in the game and in the future Chapters is only available to Ascended characters, which means we don't have to worry about providing different levels of content. All the good stuff will be available to everyone. It's not our intent to force people onto the levelling up treadmill, so the level cap in Guild Wars is almost meaningless.

But its very easy to get to level 20.........therefore it would not disadvantage casual gamers

but level 50 as suggested would be a grind as well as much more expensive as content for all those extra levels would have to be made

note that it is made easy on purpose and most of the game is set at that level

if you dont think level 20 content is challengeing check out the comments that say to make it easier

Why not add 3rd mode along rpg mode and pvp mode which u can choose when u create character. This 3rd mode could be advanced mode with high level cap for advanced and power gamers. Now this game is way too short in a hands of powergamer. As it is now i would call it a lazy mans mmorpg as everything is offered you right away and you don't have to work to get it much at all.

I'd love to see the cap raised in an expansion, but not too much and I don't want to see the majority of the focus of the expansion to be post 20 content. This is the biggest problem with raising the cap...if it's raised to 40 then most of the expansion content has to be 20-40. I'd rather see a more moderate cap increase and new content spread out accross all the levels.

Okay, someone needs to change this thread to:

LETS DEBATE THE SAME TOPICS AND ARGUMENTS OVER AND OVER FOR 16 PAGES FOR 400 POSTS

What would be really helpful is if someone compiled all the major points into a single post and deleted everything else.

I didn't come in this thread for a debate, and I'm tired of ****y people posting in this thread to state their glorifying opinion that's been stated and re-stated fifty times over, calling other people "idiots" or "assholes" or "bastards" god, don't you have anything better to do with your time?

400 posts of garbage!

I just wanted to know... how often do you get skill points after you level up?

That question has not been asked once this entire thread. And if it has I was speed-reading and missed it, but, dang...

Yeah, so, I am anxious to throw points into my skills but after I hit level 20 I don't know how often I'll get more points and stuff. Does anyone know how often you get them? With what proportion to experience? And other such things?

Thanks for any answer, and I hope my post doesn't get drowned out in the midst of all the debating and people who don't bother to read the thread and re-state what's already been stated a million times = ="

go back to wow. or something.

being good at guild wars requires practise, getting used to the skills combo, getting used to team work, etc. you're not gonna be good at it if you're just a lazy man playing gw as if it was a hack and slash.

why do you say the game's too short? people usually reach lv20 even before they reach the first quarter mark. and heck, it's *guild wars*. the pvp part of the game goes on 24/7. this way, the game's practically endless.

how is that short?

after lv20, you'll still have the level up exp bar. everytime you fill it, you "level up" and get a skill point, but your level stays at 20. that's about it.

whats the point of having an exp bar and that you still level up after level 20..............why don't the developers let you level up but you wont gain anything

Every time the experience bar fills up when you're level 20, you get a skill point.

is being *neet elite look at my high level number even if it doesnt mean anything* really that important to you?

yep.........sure does.........it keeps u going knowing countless exp would mean for something besides a useless Skill Pt