(Rant warning) F the bandwagon monks.

Your answering your own question. Against a BALANCED team, protective bond will do nothing. Either an energy denial mesmer, or any necro or mesmer with enchantment removal will dominate a monk with 105 health relying on protective bond.

Rend Enchantments? Shatter Enchantment? Drain Enchantment? Inspire Enchantment? Desecreate Enchantments?

Arcane Echo, Energy Drain, Ether Lord, Malaise, Whither, ETC ETC ETC

The point is, if you have no energy it doesn't stay up AND you can just remove it. Your expected to bring enchantment removal to Team Arenas, or GvG, or Tombs.

If you don't your a moron. Arena Net doesn't need to fix protective bond. No good team uses it anyway. Its only good in PvE and why does that affect you?

Also for your comment about the FPS players wanting only PvP.

I come from a lot of MMORPGs, I started in EQ in 1999, played SWG, CoH, WoW, DaoC, AC.

If you don't like the PvP crowd. YOU GET OUT!

Arena Net made the game for PvP, you really think they care about PvE balance? This game was made for PvP. Hense GUILD WARS. GUILD WARS.

Its not "Battle through the Underworld and slay demons" No. The story is pretty good, but its not what they made it for. If they did, they might have made people's mouths move during cutscences. This game isn't about RP, its about PvP.

If you want to play RP, join the other elitist ass holes on RP servers in games like World of Warcraft.
You can have your grind there, and lots of other people who feel the same way as you do, routinely shouting "NERF TEH H4XX0RS!"

Pardon me sir, but I think your in the wrong game to complain about how PvE is more important that PvP. And if your not saying that, delete your threads and shut up.

Well Mugon, that depends on wether or not you believe that Anet really intended monks to be able to solo UW like no other class can. Can you honestly believe that anet intentionally coded the game so that a monk who goes to extreme lengths to lower his hit points, (to include doubling up on sup runes which nobody would EVER do under any other circumstance, and using a noob quest reward necromancer item) would be able to solo tank mobs that acutal warriors, let alone any other class, have no chance in hell of surviving without support. I can't and I believe anyone who says that they really think anet intended this result, and the resultant explosion of monkroaches, is playing see no evil hear no evil because if its not exploiting then theres no reason not milk the cash cow. At least those who concern themselves a little think that way. The rest just attack me for telling the truth. You'd not belive the foul hatred I'm getting via Private messages. I belive that the 105 is the result of some clever people coaxing more performance out of a skill than Anet ever intended. And the argument that the simple fact that they were able to do so means that its not an exploit does not hold water for me. I've given up the monk solo of UW. Its unbalanced, If I feel like going there from now on, I'm going to take all the mesmers that nobody ever takes to UW and let them do whatever it is they would do while the cows beat on me.

in my view, the 105 is an exploit. Kudos to the crafty folk who figured it out, time for anet to fix it.

No one who is good at this game cares about people who play 4v4 Competition Arenas. No one. Anyone good does TA, Tombs or GvG. If you don't consistantly win at Tombs or GvG, you aren't good, and have no basis on balance of the game. We all find the game perfectly balanced except for maybe a few spells but mainly:

NATURES RENEWAL.

Nothing else matters much except for who has control of NR in a match. Its the single most powerful skill in the game.

Just some general tips for the few folks that didn't get the memo:

#1 - Using a skill as intended - or any combination of skills as intended - is NOT an exploit. You can debate the effectiveness, or how underpowered or overpowered a skill or sets of skills are, but it's NOT an exploit.

#2 - A skill or set of skills that work like they are supposed to (according to the skill description) are not "broken".

#3 - Quit stating "The devs intended this", or "the devs never intended that" unless you can provide a link to a dev stating exactly what you're complaining about. Last time I checked, mindreading still isn't a proven phenomena, so quit acting like you can do it.

#4 - Just because someone can go into an area of the game alone doesn't impact YOU in the slightest, except bunching up your panties, apparently. Nor does it impact the GAME. Bot behavior does, farming does NOT.

#5 - Stop exaggerating.

#6 - Stop using terms like "the PVP community says" or "everyone" or "the PVE community thinks" because last time I checked, I didn't give you the right to speak on my behalf, and unless I have, you can't use any of those terms. You are speaking for YOURSELF, not some "community", and certainly not for me.

Thanks.

You're mistaken in thinking that it has to effect me to be an exploit.

Never once said I dislike the PVP crowd, I implied that I disagree with those who want to turn GW into CS. I am sure there are plenty of fine pvp players, and i've enjoyed some pvp as well, as much as anyone can with the current state of pvp anyway. I prefer cooperative play, but I've never said that the PVP aspect of the game is "less important". What I said was that they should be seperated so that those who have no interest in the RP game can get out of it, which would make them happy, and make me happy as well.

now that I've addressed your issues with me would you care to add your opinion about any of the following things this thread was about? (i'll break it down for you.)

1. Too many bandwagon monks due to unbalanced protbond.
2. Probond needs fixing because its being exploited.
3. Nobody has yet explained to me how its cool to bring droks/elites to the ascalon arena/shiverpeak arena...

try one of those on for size and join the rest of us in our conversation. I'd ask that if you want to insult/flame whatever me further that you join the myriad people attempting to charbroil me by PM.

you incorporate yourself with the "elites" of the game...because you don't play 4 v 4 random arena. Like you said, nobody good plays random arena. Yet you still believe that there is no counter build for Natures Renewal.....maybe you should spend less time massaging your ego on forums and more time researching a counter build for spirit spammers.....you aren't elite, you're just an elitist.

105/55 Monk primaries arent the only class that can solo UW. A W/R solo it.....obviously it doesn't rely on any enchantments. Dont even ask, i'm not gonna go spitting out the build on a public forum, not gonna tell anyone in game either, look what happened when the 105/55 got out. And also about using the 105/55 in 4v4 arena's, did u people ever hear of enchant removal, bleeding, poison, desease, fire, or any DoT hex in the game? If you can throw 7-8 pips of health degen on them they will die in a few seconds.

And a tip for whoever complained about the seed heal balls, Maelstrom + ChaosStorm or NR are your friend.

I give this one two thumbs way way up. Its the summer arguement blockbuster we've all been waiting for. You'll be on the edge of your seat as this action packed powerhouse has you screaming at the top of your lungs "Nerf teh nerfboiz"! Its a MUST SEE!

When I read this what I hear is, If you dont play the game the way I do then your opinion doesnt count for anything... Funny, thats what people were saying of me...

what an amazingly convienent way to avoid proving that another class can solo UW at all.

Remember this first rule.

Cling to that disclamer (according to discription) because that way you can leave your head in the sand. We all know its impossible that there were unintended consequesces to the way certain things in the game have been coded.. that just couldnt be.

For this I'd refer you to your own rule #1. The one where you say using skills "as intended" is not an exploit. As who intended sweetheart? Your first rule is a violation of your third rule. Which pretty much exposes your bias.
I for one remember saying that it hinged on wether you believe the devs intended monks to be able to solo in UW. I stated that I don't belive it one bit. That is in no way mindreading or even acting like I can mindread, so kindly don't tell me what I can and cannot do when you cant even follow your own rules!

Where do people get this conception that something has to impact another player directly for it to be an exploit?? This reasoning to me resonates like that of a child.

Anytime sweetcheeks.

The only thing you will accomplish by nerfing prot bond is making other people a lot less wealthy. In GW, wealth is useless.

It's simple philosophy:
If nerf to prot bond ---> Then less wealthy people
Wealth = Useless

Therefore,
Nerfing prot bond = Useless.

God himself couldn't make it simpler than that.

ok, so if a nerf to prot bond would be useless, because it would limit wealth, which in turn is worthless why are you so opposed?

If wealth is truly worthless to you, why would you care how wealthy you are let alone how wealthy other people are? I love how you refuse to apply to yourself the same rules you want to apply to me. You rant at me that there shouldnt be any nerf because you farming has no effect on me. Those were your words. Now, by extension of that logic, and what you've just posted about money being worthless... If there were less wealthy people in a game in which wealth is of no consequence how does that effect you??

lol, yea, I'm the hypocrite.

How come you only have 4 skills on your bar?I would like it if some one can refreshen my memory on a 55 build is this with all minors and is a 105 with superiors?Thanks.

I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. How you made such leaps of logic from one point to the next is beyond me. Hint - don't become a lawyer when you grow up, you'll never succeed.

Actually it was quite simple, I responded to the inane comments that you seem to have omitted in your response to me. You know the ones where you laid down a rule, I belive it was your third rule, which stated that I was not to say what was intended and what was not, dispite the fact that your very first rule argued that using a skill as intended is not an exploit. You actually said that I could not read minds and that I should not pretend to, but apparently your rules only apply to those who disagree with you.

Failing to have an answer for any one of the points that invalidate your points you then choose to give up the argument entirely and insult me. FTW!!! lol.

Didn't bug me very much before with the number of monks running that 105/55 health UW solo build. But, as with droknars armoured players in Ascalon, it does now.

Monks now I've noticed are charging players upwards of 3k to tag along on a smite run. One player I noticed taking along 4 other players, basically netting that monk 15k. For what? 5 players is the size of a normal smite run. But now you'll have to pay 3k to do it? True, you don't have to do anything, but willing to pay that much for a chance that nothing good will even drop. 3k for some residue and remains. Combined with the diminishing results when you constantly farm the same place these monks are going to make a killing.

As a result, because of the price of ecto, there is no need for these monks to join other groups. They're better off to farm ecto, sell it for 10k (roughly), buy the shards they'll need with the profit, and get their fissure armor that way.

What are we left with? Upwards of a few hours (and I'm not kidding) to just get into a terrible PUG in the temple. Warriors, Necros, Mesmers, and Rangers constantly spamming to get into groups, who are basically useless to these 105/55 monks. At least elementalists can tag along because of how much their offensive capabilities can speed up the otherwise slow solo run.

Even when you do form a group, how do you know your monks are not these dreaded builds? Now your group is left in grief because the only thing this monk is good for is such a small fraction of the UW. Better yet when they decide to tag along for a trip down to the FoW. The group just to the right shatters their enchantments, and the monk leaves. Group falls apart, cursing and the like follow suit, and all that time spent to form a group wasted.

I'll admit, I have a friend who uses the solo build, but he covers the entrance fee most of the time. But those who are exploiting it are really ruining the gaming experience for some players. I certainly hope what the frog spoke of in changes in the combat system and what not are true, because a lot of the fun is getting sucked out of this game. That or hopefully the Furance or Footsteps will be the bane to these monks.

There, got that off my chest, feel free to flame.

My guess is that you have not seen the very simple mesmer skill - Conjure Phantasm - imagine what a -5 degen does to a 105 hit point monk...

um... well DEATH.

It was hard enough to get monks before... But really, if they nerfed this... How many monks would there be? One of the reasons people put up with being the guy who stares into 2-10 red bars for the entire match is because they know that they will excell at the endgame content eventually, and will never be in short demand (however, the demand is incompetant. all of it). It boils down to the mercinary healer thing. These guys are offering a stupid service, and stupid people are paying them for it. Let them.

Amen brother.

Here, I'll knock out all the flames for you in advance ok?

1) stfu noob
2.) it does what it says in the skill description so it cant be wrong
3.) it doesnt impact you or the economy
4.) I PLAY THE WAY I WANT WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME HOW TO PLAY!!!
5.) Anet wants us to do this, or they wouldve stopped us by now.
6.) stfu noob
7.) wealth is worthless in this game so why are you whining...

There I think that about covers the gamit of what fllames you can expect, how many posts do you think it will take to cover them alll?

Edit, the really funny part is those are about the sum total of the flames that were laid upon me on my thread about bandwagon monks. what? 260 posts later and 7 basic flames. I've had to repeat myself quite a bit.

ok, first youre talking about pvp, which I wasnt speaking about when I started this thread, Of course those who only play pvp only think about pvp so it was inevitiable that pvp would be considered on this thread i suppose.

Second, it wouldnt be as easy as a -5 degen. It would take more than a little -5 degen to do in a 105 monk, first, 3 points of that are going to be gone because of mending, and it could be more if someone took say, watchful spirt instead of ebond. and that doesnt even count healing breeze for 7 regen points... nope, the degen wont do it alone, you'd have to remove/energy starve those enchantments for your degen to even have a hope of killing the monk.

Here's what I don't get though. ArenaNet coded this game from the ground up, development for 4 years. They implemented Protection bond and Protective Spirit to be 5% and 10% respectively. They also implemented major and superior runes which lowered your health which was a bonus for protection monks. In all seriousness, I really don't see it to be an exploit right there, two and two together and it is blantently obvious. How could something so in your face slip through into retail all together?

The percent rate of protection monk enchantments make sure that anyone regardless of hp receive the same percent of damage maximum. The lower the HP, the less numbered damage, but your HP will drop just as fast as the dude with 480HP, you just receive a better benifit of healing due to healing being involved in actual numbers.

Changing the energy cap on it can be compensated for. Changing the percentage would render the skill practically useless. Capping the maximum amount of damage it is allowed to protect against is nerfing protection monks and deterring the use of superior runes at all. Changing the superior runes to not stack HP penalties is blatently obvious to how much that can be exploited. Removing the skill altogether is nerfing the protection monk.

This skill how it is now hardly makes a dent in anything but the community who happens to use it often. You alter it in any of these ways (which are the only ways I can think of) would unbalance things further. Adding disenchantments to these areas would make even more skills useless in the UW.

Yes this is an exploit in it's pure definition:

tr.v. ex·ploit·ed, ex·ploit·ing, ex·ploits (k-sploit, ksploit)

1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.

It however is not in the other definition an exploit, taking advantage of a vunerability in software as it would be met as such with a quick fell swoop (points to all other REAL exploits in the game that have been responded to within hours). Is the skill unbalanced? Considering it is only truely effective in situations that aren't common throughout Tyria, I might go as far to say it is underpowered. However in the situations where it is effective, it really is truely effective.

All this flaming from both ends has got to stop, really. Seven pages and the whole shitfest could easily be described in a few short sentances. If it was an exploit, it would have been dealt with accordingly long ago. If it is unbalanced, it will be changed in the next update. I don't think it is imbalanced, but if ArenaNet sees it so, then so be it changed. If not, then you were wrong and I will laugh at you (not really, I'll just smile and continue what I'm doing until I have enough ecto for my FoW armour then respec it into a healer).

Well if you're talking PvP, just remove the enchantments... NR, Rend Enchantments, etc.

For PvE, I don't see what the big deal is. I could understand if they were stealing all the kills or something... but it's instanced... whatever they're doing doesn't affect you in the slightest. People seem to either be complaining that it's unfair or that they can never find monks anymore... To the first, become inventive and try to solo it with your guy... Or find some place to do it. I know there are places every class can solo and get good rewards - but I'd rather not give them away. To the second... boo freakin hoo.

I have been running my 85/55 build for almost two months now. Got over 150 ecto's got my FoW armor, now what? I do a run or two a day in the Under World and then switch on my FoW/healing armor and go help others in places that are hard to find monks. I bet you will start seeing more of this activity.

if an ecto or a max dmg eternal bow or a shard drops for you that 3K has been turned into double triple quadruple etc etc your investment....it's called a risky investment. You get a free ride in the UW with the chance to get a drop that could net you upwards of 6 times your initial investment. Nobody forces you to pay the 3K...nobody forces you to go on a free ride team....stop complaining

Let me start by saying that I am a GW newb, but that I have played these games since the first Asheron's Call. That being said, my opinion in this matter relates to the effects of a "broken" template on the economy, not on the morality or fun factor involved in using this type of build.

One of the most common arguments in favour of keeping this (and other exploit-based) builds is that of the economy. I won't use a quote block, but I've heard claims like "it's the only way our guild gets money" and "it helps keep the prices down". This is a tune I've heard before. I heard these same arguments in the first Asheron's Call, just before the economy of that game self-destructed.

ANet worked long and hard to try to create a balanced economy. The difficulty of creatures was based on the expected equipment and skills used by the players who should be fighting them at the time. By increasing the number of rare items distributed among the playerbase, the overall effectiveness of the average player increases, and the speed at which players can level also speeds up.

In the first Asheron's Call, my first ever character reached level 17 in a few months of dedicated play. Most of us marveled at one player who seemed to shoot up levels like a rocket. While I don't remember specifics, he was 2 or three times the average player level in a game that had a nearly exponential xp curve.

Log in to AC today and you'll be level 17 before you go to bed tonight. This is called inflation, and it's a direct result of things like the Plat-exploit, or the farming of what were supposed to be rare items.

My point is that by unbalancing the rate at which the playerbase acquires rare items or cash, we are in effect destroying the balance which ANet went to all this trouble to create.

The net is full of cheat codes and trainers for rpg's. The best example I can come up with is Diablo 2. I tried a trainer to "help" me level a character because the usual rpg grind was taking too long. In the short term it was awesome. One day my character was struggling to dispatch a single foe, the next he was wading through throngs of enemies and casting their corpses aside with a flick of his heavily armoured wrist. I was a god among men and I used my powers to raze the fortresses of the damned.

Then I quit.

The challenge, the fun, and the excitement of finding new items was gone.

It seems to defy logic that in a game that drives players to improve their character in every way they can, that improving your character too much can be detrimental to the game. But it's true. Anyone who has tried a cheat knows the dissabpointment that follows the joy.

More powerful characters will chew through content faster. What should be a quest full of wonderment and exploring becomes a race to see who can get to and kill the boss the fastest.

I'll end this post with a bit of math, but I'll keep it simple because my primary is a W/Mo, and not one of you fancy caster types with your "higher learning".

If I have a sword that does 3-5 damage and you have a sword that does 3-5 damage, we'll have fun fighting against each other. The content creators can create a boss that will be a challenge to both of us, and the reward can be a sword that does 3-5 damage, but with +1 energy. Woo hoo!

With the inflated economy brought about by an exploit-template, a new player will still have a 3-5 damage sword. A new player will still be challenged - like you were - the first time he fights that boss. But you won't be. You have a max damage sword and you strike the boss dead in two swings, much to the awe of the newb standing beside you.

It's great in the short-term. You're a god among newbs and you cast the body of the boss aside with a flick of your heavily armoured wrist.

But the challenge of the game is lost. And you'll quit.

Unfortunately this is a flaw in every MOG I've seen so far. Eventually the power-players run out of ways to improve and the playerbase gets so spread out in abilities that the designers can't possibly create new content to please everyone. I applaud ANet for the level 20 cap. I also think it's very important to the longevity of this game that they keep the explosion of their in-game economy under control as long as possible.

Personally I'm going after that boss with my 3-5 sword. He's got another thing coming if he thinks he can steal supplies from those refugees!

Koroh

I hope this trend doesn't get bigger.

They'll be monks charging for farming runs all over the place.

Hey Anet: maybe take a hint? The drop rates suck, and yes people still have to farm.

Gyah, just.. Gyah. My opinion on people that charge for services in this game, such as monks charging for healing during missions etc cannot be described in english or any other language that I know of. Lets just make an understatement and say it's low.

All this build is good for imo is gathering the materials needed for Fissure Armour, then once you're done, change the build to help more in teams or delete it to free up a slot.

As well thought-out that post was, it overlooks the fact that most 105/55 monks do it for the financial gain. Yeah, I solo some areas with it to get some money and such, but they are still very limited. There's no way a 105/55 monk can clear the UW.

Our max damage sword works on only a few of the many many boss monsters in the game. I'm always more than happy to go on a different character, pick up a 3-5 sword and go after the rest.

The thing that's worse than this?

Healer monks charging to be in a group for missions.

I got so sick of the status of healer monks (charging people, honestly? That's a crock.) That' I made a monk and leveled him up. Now I go to areas where healer monks are charging to be in a group and I then immediately say that I won't charge so add me, instead.

People shouldn't freaking charge to help others through a mission. That's really lame.

hmmmm in a good miste group you do not need a monk anyway so i fail to see the relevance of this post lol.

just leave the monks at home.

/Signed, I hate freeloader monks as well. I've been known to accept a freeride, but I never ask for it, and I always offer to pay my way.

Stranger things have happened. Think back to Grand Toursimo 2 ( i know its not related exactly but bear with me.) polyphonic (i think) was a well respected game house after GT, and they had an awesome bug slip past them (on a console game!) there was no way to get 100% completion in that game. It stopped at 98-something. pissed off the perfectionists pretty bad.

another perfect example, Bioware, (KTOR, KTOR2, and others) had a pretty awesome problem in KTOR. There was a mission in which your crew is captured on an early star destroyer. Youre given the choice of which character to use to spring the others and escape. First time thru I chose the little rouge girl, naturally right? After she does her thing and throws the last switch the crew escapes via a cutscene, and then there is a conversation rendered with the game engine (as opposed to prerendered). I was puzzled the first time when the game seemed to lock up, so I rebooted and tried it again, from the autosave right after the final switch is thrown. Same problem, then i realize its not locked up. Its just not moving forward. I found the FAQ. Turns out that the problem was that I hadnt deactivated stealth before throwing the last switch, so the character was stealthed on the escaping ship and the othere characters were not making the requiste perception checks to realize that she was there for her to deliver her lines in the cutscene.... How does that get to retail?? Nobody Used stealth to get off the ship??

Those arent related I know, but I belive its entirely possible that Anet wasn not aware of the unintended consequences of the way things had been done. Just like when they removed XP from the arenas, did they know that lame asshats were going to bring droks and elites to ascalon arena to farm noobs who had no prayer of being competitive for faction. After all, they didnt grow out of it then.... Arenas still full of lame asshats brining things there that do not belong there, but at least they outgrow it again. So yea, i think its actually possible that its unintended. as far as why so long, that question could be asked of alot of things no?

Oh on a side note i'm flattered that so many of you felt that you needed to at least check up on this thread if not give support or try to charbroil me, I've got nearly as many views as "the frog".

Mercinary monks are just like runners. They're charging you cash for a service, and if you're stupid or desperate enough, you'll accept the trade. It's legitimate and fair. Monks who go half way through and then demand money or they'll quit need to be excecuted in the most painful way possible.

I agree with you in everything you say. I just don't get why people have to have so much money. It's useless once you get to a certain point in the game. I bought the game as soon as it was released, my first character was a Monk and I am on my third character now. I have bought pretty much everything my characters need and I didn't even need 400k to buy it all. I see no reason to accumulate large sums of gold, really.

It's sad to see people charging to do anything like that but they do it because they can and I don't really care that much about it because if people stopped paying for it, they would have to find something else to do.

For the most part, Monks are good to have in your party but you can make ends meet without one just as well. This third character of mine is a Me/E (having a blast playing it ) and I am almost at the desert right now and I haven't done a single mission with players. Not that I think that I am better than everybody else. It just usually is quicker to just get the henchies and go do your mission instead of begging for 10 to 30 minutes just to get in a group even though it usually is much more fun to play them with players.

Anyway, that's sad, very sad and I also can't see any other use for those builds besides the Fissure Armor.

I just wanted to quickly reply with my opinion to koroh's post. While I think that your point is completely true the difference in guild wars is that farming for rare weapons and distributing them does not lead to a prevalance of "better" weapons. The best or at least very serviceable weapons are found from collectors, very very good non-rare weapons can be found and the most expensive drops are due to their rarity of a particular graphic (ie a storm bow which is really a longbow, or a fellblade vs a longsword).

So in summary I think that farming these gold items which mostly have desirable graphics will not substantially change the quality/diffuculty of the experience. I do not know much about the drops in other RPGs but if they do increase in effectiveness of the weapon then you would be totally correct, I just don't think it applies to guild wars.

ok. im going to try this one more time...

/applaud

I can admit it, I jumped on the bandwagon. While I did it sooner then most, I did indeed jump on. I began a smiting monk before the build was taken public, and around the shiverpeaks, I decided to pursue this build. I don't enjoy farming, it gets boring fast, and with all the nerfing, theres really no point in my opinion, but it did help me to level very quickly. That pretty much sums up why I went for it. I can't stand the monks who charge people for their services. I can't believe that people pay for them. When I do fow or uw, if I am the leader, I cover the charge. If someone else is, I pay my share. When I enter into a group, I don't run the 105 build. Instead, I run my own smite build. It baffles me why someone would run a 105 build, while in a team.

Well... how long did it take before the general public discovered the 55/105 build?

The answer to that question is a testament to the fact that what seems obvious now was not always so - neither to us, nor to the A.Net development team.

Exactly how to fix protective bond is another issue altogether, and not one that I intend to get too deep into at this time, but I will say that I've already seen a few good suggestions on how to go about it.

Ahh... back there again are we?

The argument that an imbalance only affects the individual that makes use of it only holds true in a singleplayer environment - it goes right out the window the second that player chooses to interact with others, and believe me, there are plenty of 55/105 monks that do just that.


ManaCraft

Maybe it's because you either A) can't come up with any other refutes except your opinion or B) you fail to see other people's POV.

Both mean arguing with you is unproductive.

Agree on point one. Enchant removal is lame in PvE. Sure, it might stop the stupider farmers until they figure out how to stack the enchants right, but all it really does in the end is the same thing as NR; that is, limit your options for skills and decrease diversity.

Point two.. I think everyone knows a good farmer can get around minor things like that.

Point three - I have enough money, and never made one. I find farming boring. The reason things need to be changed is inflation.. and imbalance. Immortality isn't in other online games..

Another intelligent post by Ensign. The real problem at stake here is the rewards system implemented by Anet at this moment in time. At some point, this game went from skill and teamplay, to grind and economy exploits. I'm trying to make a protection monk right now, for group purposes. I already have a dedicated healer. I can't get my hands on a superior run from the trader, because of all the people camping it. Things have degenerated to such a sad state.

Exactly the problem.

I heard you, at least. Excellent post. And to the peron who said you probably all came from quake or something... I've put 870 hours now into this game. Don't talk to me about time invested. The thing that pisses most people off about the 105/55 build is that it takes no SKILL whatsoever to pull off, and an invincible character should not exist in the first place. The effects on the economy, other players, etc, are all irrelevant.

As I previously stated.. it's the rewards that people do this stuff for. Make it so you get equal/more drops/money from a full group, and all of a sudden the farming problem is gone. They could even get rid of all the stupid enchant removals, and put in some monsters that take, *gasp*, skill to beat. Teamwork and skill over grind has been lost on Anet. Maybe Verant bought them out secretly or something.