Guild Wars Update - Nov 10 and Nov 11

I think half the mobs in Tyria just started acting like the wacky minotaurs between Amnoon Oasis and Hero's Audience. (The ones that run from any attack and even attack each other!)

Earlier i saw a storm kiln run away from me, even though the AoE damage came from a hydra i accidentally aggro'd - now that's...errm, different to say the least.

A few questions/comments:

Mhenlo doesn't keep standing in Maelstrom anymore? Oh, you bastard Ice Imps, the day is mine!

Does the idiot brigade still decide to stand in the poison swamps until they die, or do they now move to safe ground? Probably still the former, since it's not an "AoE Spell," but I thought I'd ask.

Most of the economy discussion is relevant, and well explained, but most people forget that Anet has introduced artificial limits, caps, and resets into the economy in the past, and will likely do so again. A Superior Rune of Vigor might be 75k today, but who knows what it'll be reset to tomorrow?

It is your perogative to change your build or not. I propose that it is more entertaining than you think. For me, I was playing a wammo with a fiery dragon sword and a mishmosh skill set most of the PvE game. (Many of you just slapped your head in disgust. Please keep reading.) I got somewhat tired of this build and wondered what I could do to get better at the game, since I just wasn't cutting it. I hopped on the forums here, took a hard look at my skills, and now I'm trying a variant on the knocklock principle which (DUH) works a lot better. I'll probably try Axe in the future, too. Let's not even talk about all the combinations I could experiment with using my E/Me. This is part of the game, have fun with it. Don't be afraid of it.

For the record, I haven't finished the game yet. I simply don't have a lot of time to play, so I keep it to a couple of hours a night at most. In fact, I beat Thunderhead Keep last night with friends just before the update hit. This leads me to another question: Do the ballistae at the Keep now scatter the enemies too? Seems pretty dumb to me to sit there and take splash damage till you die. A teammate said, last night, "This is the most idiotic seige ever. 'My Fellow Jades, if we rush them all at once, we will surely win the day. Therefore, let's rush them two at a time!'" Of course, this would make the Keep impossible, but I digress, so I'll end it here.

Great for spikers. Why should players be FORCED to switch playing styles?

Just bought the game for her and got my wife into it. I play a monk to support her and I think 'I'll keep her away from the cookie cutter W/MO, she has me! Let's try W/E with her!'
I feel like crap now.

I thought after close to 600 hours I could pick something appropriate for her with the 2nd class as she just wanted me to pick. She's up to level 9 post sear now and I find I may have led her to the worst combo ever post patch. She defines casual play. Wondering if it was just a big waste of effort, time, and dough.

So early on (until later where I might get her going with elemental wpn and conjure) try a lavastorm. Now enemies flee from a warr. Hmm how about a ONE PULSE AOE which might even help with this new stupid flee crap - she just got Frozen Burst. Well they 'SENSE' your spell I guess - they ran away from her as it queued up and hit noone. Can you say most useless build ever? If a warr can't even one-off an AOE what good is a W/E? Yeah yeah conjure but I was hoping the whole second class might be a little more than a one-trick pony.

Going further though, how retarded is the single-shot AoE run? So they sense that too? Or even if they get hit they THEN run? It's single pulse dude..

You can still farm by the way it's just more retarded..
So now ie in Elona the minos will come in go out come in go out - dumbest thing you ever saw - I'm debating if I should even bring defense as they're too busy running back and forth to take many swings at me - just bring more nukes and energy mitigation lol.

But what they totally f-d up is grouping (with so much of this aggro and willy nilly running) with ANY kind of AoE as all the mobs now have hyper-sense stupidity. Clearing out before it even fires? And again for some they're running from one-offs, still get tagged, and you wait for their return.. how stupid is that? If anything the R/E or R/MO might become the new farmer. Keep range damaging these running SOBs while they run willy nilly away from the uber (rotfl) lavafont. Toss a symbol of wrath down now not for offense but a respite from those pounding on you.

Did they test this? Did they even think?
I don't get core game changing sweeps like this.
Talk about really dampening my chances for getting the expansion.

Where I was looking forward to an injection, if they feel they can stupidly trash the way their game plays at anytime I'll pass. If you hate farming get yer heads outta yer butts and deal with that. But not ruin those in FoW, UW, SF in groups with totally illogical 'chicken without a head' aggro.

Even if you wanted to ruin an entire class of spells, why the AoE one-offs? They usually have their own limitations. I hear even chain-lightning and deathly swarm have issues. Why kill point blank AoE bursts, even one-offs? Why are a whole group of mobs running from frozen burst before it launches? I think its funny they beef up water and then ruin it in one fell swoop.. ok wait another 30seconds and try to catch them then? At least something like this might have helped reduce the new 'AI-STUPIDITY' introduced.

If I was set up with video making I'd show you now what happens when you chain (yes even one-off point blank) AoE in Elona with the minos. You can still farm them, it's just the most retarded thing you'll ever see. So again, didn't do what they hoped I imagine, if anything now you may bring some of these now useless spells for defense, exploiting the fact these dumb azzes now do more running then fighting. Wand'em, Bow them, cheap area spell for backing them off. Warriors? Sorry go chase em or cripple all you can first, [just don't try the area stuff to do so it appears at first run through].

To date I've been pretty supportive of all changes.
Now I think they've just lost their minds

I've been logging in too many hours anyways, this might help me move on.
Thanks arena net?

Doull put it more eloquently, I'm just more pissed.
You guys just cant handle the farmers can you?
Well they still will find away, your new code opens a bunch of new paths for them.

Meanwhile PUGs will just be WAY more painful, yay more henchmen play for a MMO!
And you'll drive away casual players that were coming in or we were trying to bring in.

BIG lose-lose-lose.
With this change I probably don't have a lot of time left with the game.
And I was a BIG fan of GW and probably brought 6-8 people to the game myself (go DINKs lol)

Diversity of game play was a big plus here, but you've managed to kick a lot of that in the teeth in one fell swoop, while still the farmers will farm. Harder AI and PvE? Nah they still make stupid choices. You'll just get more frustrated individuals as yet more skills and spells go on the dead pile. And really kicked in the head some class combinations, particularly those involving Eles.

And I say again, farming will still be easy, if not easier, for the farms.
Way to keep swatting at the fly with a baseball bat - maybe you'll hit the fly sometime.

Some of us (at least still) were sticking to the PvE, the more casual, working with friends brought in, etc. If you really took a blind eye to the PvE here, yet another factor in a bad move.

4.) Less stupid warriors who know nothing except for being a tank. This may improve their PvP skills more...I hope.

5.) More strategies involved so less need for monks who are there to cover your mistakes (like keep hitting when under Empathy?). I've seen so many warriors/rangers kill themsevles to death while blaming the monks. It's a good change for the monks really. Because just you are dead doesn't mean it's always the monk's fault.

6.) Less prejudice in PvE. I am a beast master myself and I can tell you that I don't get invited a lot because I am not a "nuker", "tank", "healer". Muhahahahahaahaha...

I think that from anet's perspective the PvP players are the normal players.

Yeah I can't believe GW found a way to make me think it.
If you asked me before this patch if they could ever make me go I would have said 'not bloody likely'.

I'm not sure they get that they're getting new casual players all the time yet too - we try to bring new people in. Which I feel a fool for doing so now.

'Hey wanna play ping pong with some mobs?'

And I'll say it again, I can still solo in Elona w/o breaking a sweat.
Why do I solo? I just recently decided to see if I could with a E/ME.

This just screws my wife's W/E from even being able to function w/o my monk attached to her hip. Silly me, why didn't I just tell her W/MO..

And isn't it odd I don't have to change a farm lineup but if I want to GROUP with players anywhere serious I'll HAVE to go single target only.

And PUGs will be that much more painful.

Well I'm repeating myself.. it's a shock response.. sorry..

Snares now what snares does fire have?? meteor shower knocks down but they run their ass away from that. So its basically water eles now right???

Improving Monster's AI is just a "start". I am sure they'll make more changes later. Don't quit so soon yet.

The GW team really mested the game up now.

They are constantly whining about making the game fair for beginning players and players that have already 4 characters. Now all they did was nerf like almost everything. People that start playing Guild Wars now will not even have a chance to get like 15k armor in a year! and why is that? Cause some genius had an idea that defies all logic. Enemy's that run AWAY from people that play the game. HAVE U EVER heard something more moronotic then an idea like that? Enemy's are supposed to like and want to kill the player as much as possible. Not think for themselfs like" Oh no they are casting an aoe skill LET'S RUN FOR OUR LIVES" and then the player is gonna chace the enemy's. it doesn't make any sense at all.

Also the economy wont be stable anymore prices of like Green Items will skyrocket the same with ecto and Obsidian Shards. The game is nothing that comes close to fair at this moment.

With this update they practicly just can delete the profession Elementalist. I'm basicly really supprised that some bonehead of the team didn't got an idea like that.

I understand that the GW craw wants to make people play gvg/pvp and less pve but there are more effective ways of doing that and not nerfing the whole freaking pve thing. Even Monsters in missions are running away like crazy! And then again. Some people like to just play pve and not the whole bullshit about pvp or gvg and that stuff. Those people just like almost lost there money they spended on this game.

So I think the GW team really need to nerf there heads instead of this game cause the logic they have at the moment makes no sense at all.

In case anyone is wondering if A.net is reading any of this and paying attention, if you look to the bottom of the screen you can see who is viewing the thread... its none other then Alex Weekes!

Hopefully A.net will see that the patch is very much overkill and change some it back.

The way I see it I love the fact the henchmen run away when a AoE is cast on them, I do the same.... however making the mobs run about like nutter EACH and EVERY single time seems a bit weird....

For example why not make it so Charr don't run for fire... but other Ice type mobs do? Or make it so some mobs have more fear of attacks then others... take the Stone Summit... they are bad ass... why would they run away from anything?

I still think this update will work out in the long run. Life is about change. I will adapt my builds to the new reality, as will everyone else here.

I do agree though the AI could stand a little tweaking. I too was an observer of the "chicken without a head" phenomenon while fighting Enchanted's and Jade Scarab's. Basically they would come towards me, I'd bop them with my cane, then they'd run away. Then they'd come towards me again, bop, run away. I mean seriously, an Enchanted Sword running away from a monk? (I believe he got scared after my buddies whooped his partner when he got too close to me.)

Anyway, some AI tweaking may need to be done, but kudos for a good patch with good ideas. And, I like Firebat's idea of having some monsters more "skittish" than others. I don't see why the Stone Summit would run from anything other than true nuking, like 2 Meteor Storms in a row.

Tweak the AI, and please make sure the henchies will get out of the poison water now...

Suggesting Snares as a solution is merely crippling the Elementalist even more. Let's consider a 15 fire 11 energy and 11 water setup. Deep Freeze and Ice Spikes. Your fire is now at 15 instead of 16, which results in slightly less damage with your Fire spells. Now consider the snares; Deep Freeze does 65, Ice Spikes does 64. Quite a large tradeoff in damage if you ask me. Now I suppose you can have a fire ele and a water ele, but adding one support character just to make another character work is very much crippling the team (as opposed to the individual build) in most cases. It might still work, but that will require a lot of synergy, which in PvE just doesn't happen too often.

Also consider that the two snare spells are AoE spells, and they WILL trigger a mob to run, and even though they'll run slowly, Fire AoEs generally take forever to cast as well. End result is that with most Fire spells it gives them an extra hit or two; with Meteor it's just as bad, with its small AoE. Only with Rodgort's Invocation and its huge AoE was the full effect of the spell brought to bear with the help of a snare.

Or, stop relying so much on AoE spells?? Water spells combine well with Fire spells. That's a good combination but it's not THE ONLY combination.

That's what GW is trying to do. They don't want the usual "nuker, tank, healer" thing because a lot of new players tend to forget what mesmer/necro/ranger can do.

I am at work now so I haven't tested it but I don't think it's that bad a change.

I think I may actually have to bring sprint in pve. I mean seriously using henchies sucks since the ai's run away from eveyrthing and the henchies go and aggro everything. I mean rreally there was 4 moss scarabs in my aggro circle and all they did was walk back and forth. I mean they just made the ai 10x worse.

As I said before And I will state it again! The whole fire line is nerfed. It the most useless thing ever in pvp but in PvE it HAD some uses. If they don't want the usual tank, healer, nuker thing why don't they change some of the skills around. What happens if I don't feel like spreading my att into 4 things for me ele. Energy Storage, Fire, Water, Secondary or even 3.

I use earth anyway but its total bs.

Lets think about what you just said..."running just got easier". OK, since running is sooo easy now....what the hell makes you think somebody is going to PAY you to do something they can do on thier own?????

ANET Can we get higher XP to make up for the added difficulty/time its takes to kill a group of monsters.

Why do people just think about Elementalist gets ruined in PvE now??? That is EXACTLY what they want to change.

There are other classes that can do just as well.

How about instead of killing 2-3 monsters, you focus on one instead? Lightning element is a good choice. Earth can be good too. Water has many good snares to help the party but it's not THE only way. There are trappers, interrupters and many other useful builds.

Could you eventually limit how I play GW - from what I do during my time with the game to exactly the classes and skills I choose - that make a specific arena net decision-making population warm and fuzzy?

Cause lord knows I bought the game so you could dictate how I play it and with what specific setups will actually work in your vision. Thanks!

No...Intelligent enemies will position themselves in the most appropriate way to take your team down with limited to no casualties on their side. This happens in every war/battle/confrontation known to man kind. Just because you became accustomed to the AI mobs standing mindlessly in your firestorm doesn't mean it's "what enemies should want to do". Your argument contradicts itself. You explain that enemies should want and like to kill as much as possible...then go on to complain that they move away from your AoE damage...are they killing anything if they're getting torn up by the echo nuker in your group??

[QUOTEAlso the economy wont be stable anymore prices of like Green Items will skyrocket the same with ecto and Obsidian Shards. The game is nothing that comes close to fair at this moment.[/QUOTE]

no...those of us that aren't retarded will continue to bring weapons/runes/items/upgrades into the economy. The game is about adapting to your setting...so go on lemming...adapt

I'm fairly new to the game and I've never played an elementalist through PvE but I'm quite certain fire is only 1 of the 4 elements the elementalist has control over...try switching to water/air/earth...yanno a snare or two would allow you to echo nuke again.

[QUOTE]I understand that the GW craw wants to make people play gvg/pvp and less pve but there are more effective ways of doing that and not nerfing the whole freaking pve thing. Even Monsters in missions are running away like crazy! And then again. Some people like to just play pve and not the whole bullshit about pvp or gvg and that stuff. Those people just like almost lost there money they spended on this game.[QUOTE]

how does ease of play equal fun...for me it's more fun to have to try. It's more fun to have to think. For 50 dollars you've been given a game that's free of monthly charges and ever changing. You've got an ever changing environment in which monsters are constantly getting smarter and skills are constantly becoming more balanced. You'd think this would be a good thing...Farming(be serious..that's the reason you're pissed. You found some cookie cutter build on the internet that no longer works for farming and it pisses you off) is still quite possible..and very very simple. Go on lemming...adapt


I'm not going to go as far as saying that I think the ArenaNet team is doing a great job. I think often times they are late on updates/patches that should have been simpler to implement. I also believe they blow a lot of smoke up our asses....but guess what, that's what gaming companies do. ArenaNet is doing a fine job. Stop blaiming the company for your shortcomings as a player.

Why on earth would you take 11 water for a spell that snares for 10 seconds no matter how much water magic you have?

So instead of having Fire AoE we get Air Spiking. Diversity is not caused by rendering an entire line of spells useless!

By the way, I don't enjoy air spiking. If anything I think it's more mindless than Fire AoE. So don't tell me how I "should" play the game!

I think the biggest problem I have with this statement is, no one was complaining that they didn't move. Now that the AI RUNS from AoE, people complain and you others jump out and say stop complaining!

Guess my point is no one prior to this was arguing WHY do the monsters STAY in my AoE spells? Are they idiots?

But now there are people who don't like this change, and people who want to yell at those of us who hate this new AoE running strategy the mobs have.

The problem being is that it rendered an entire attribute line useless and actually dangerous to your team if used in order to show people other ways of doing things. Telling them that they can't have their pie they are eating at the moment because they have to eat something else.

I don't have a problem with them making the PvE game more challenging, I don't have a problem with making things harder by making the Monsters smarter. I do have a problem, however, with killing a whole attribute line in order to do so.

Paying for runners I believe is one thing they don't like.

If you choose to run and not kill monsters, that's your business. But paying for runners not only give you advantage but also give the runners a chance to ruin the economy.

I am sure they'll figure out a way to counter runners later. At this moment, I don't think the update RUINS the game like many have suggested.

People probably can adapt and find a new effective farming build if they wanted to, but the truth of the matter is they (and I) don't want to change. I like my characters how they are and I don't want to have to change them every 3-6 months because A.net decides to nerf something.

PvE is meant for mindless mob killing. You can make it more difficult on yourself by imposing party number restrictions like 3 man SF farming or solo UW farming. If I wanted a challenge I'd be playing PvP. I don't want PvE to play like PvP.

By changing the AI like this, people now have an actual reason to bring snares to PvE. I tried playing Water a while back, and found it did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Warriors held aggro, enemies never moved from them, and it was more effective to nuke the whole stupid group of enemies.

Now what can you do? Well, if things get bad, you can always snare and run away. They won't chase you forever anymore, remember?

The people who make the calls have completely restructured the entire game under the guise of a "minor" update. You may say this statement is extreme but think about it - literally - and it really annoys me - because the AI is not more intelligent - its actually the opposite - now they are just plain RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing dumb and 100% eratic. Even PEOPLE are PREDICTABLE. PvP is far easier than this...and I have to waste more time in killing them - and this is in a party of 8 mind you...I'm not even referring to soloing...to me it just doesnt make any sense to me that these battle hardened monsters (that are hard as anything to kill anyway - scenario - GIANT STOMP, and the herders run around evading AoEs and still stomp none the less....humm stop and ULTIMATE AOE...monster ONLY mind you, that humm you can't run from....OH WAIT this balanced the game right... balanced real fair now....AFTER EVERYONE who has BOTS or whatever that ALREADY have 100s of shards and ecto, and the SAME people that already have 10 of each "rare" green items...oh wait they don't care it doesn't HURT them... but the little guys i.e. the rest of us that actually physically control our characters and go to UW, and Sorrows Furnace FOR FUN with 5 of our friends, now that's gone, you know its not about the drops sometimes - its about having some fun... and this is just NOT FUN.

How many of us have every fire skill? How many of us are smiters? I have 4 characters a W/Mo, and Mo/Me, E/Me, and R/Mo, its like I and MANY, MANY others have invested SO much time in creating our characters, getting all the elite skills, obtaining our 15k aestic armor, and now.... now... we get this... its like I wish I could just LAN this game without having to worry about these changing the whole game when I log on...

When I READ the update - I said to myself "cool, that pretty neat, cause I mean who would sit in a firestorm for 5 mins?" HOWEVER, the application of this particular is like this: AI's thought (they do know everything before hand mind you) enemy clicked on his firestorm skill run 50 ft back. Energy to you -15, humm maybe we can get clever and cast smite hex on our fellow warrior friend up there with the high armor doing the warrior things... Go warrior go, wait, where are the "Evil stone summit going... I was merely removing a hex from my friend there....", poof theyre gone, 20 mins later...and a whole lot of wasted time - they are finally dead - it's not harder its just dumber lol AoEs *sighs* Thank god Oblivion's coming out.

You see, I personally hate the fact that you have to do the following in several situations - you must get 8 individuals - and form a build amongst yourselves to conqore your foes in mortal combat cool! Current guild wars application and why this update is stupid - player 6 gets no items and drops, player 7 has to go do "homework", player 3 has to go kill himself, player 4 is convinced that there is no hope and disconnects too - so now here I am, with 4 party members....wow...this is reminicent of whats that sorrows runs... huh? now the 4 of us have put in say an hour up to this point, and ....now we are not UNABLE to complete our goal...hummm well at least now we are forced to NEVER play because its so hard to get a full party of intelligent people. In all my UW runs, I have to say that the finest players are those that can solo UW, and CAN do SF runs, but PREFER to go in a party. And sadly, all this is now ruined because now you need the extra 3 people to chase after youre enemies, while the attaxes kill your monks.

FAIR? Balanced? Logical? I think not. That's all. Good bye guild wars, to think if you would just stop around with the coding, and leave it as is this silly bs would never happen, its this supid stuff that makes me never want to play the game again...

Some general observations after reading this thread.

1) In general (not all) PvP players like this change and PvE players don't.
2) A lot of the comments are about changing the way you play and changing the makeup of groups. Why not just make a new game incorporating all these changes and leave this one alone?

Yes, I am primarily a PvE player and have spent a lot of time tweaking builds on my various characters and making changes to suit different circumstances. I've played around with air, water and earth and always come back to fire for the best support for my team mates. I am a casual player and I really don't have the time to be adjusting my builds to suit constant changes and up?grades. Many of you might reply "good ridance" if I decide to leave the game, but all those who think like me and decline to purchase a second account or future chapters will effect the future of GW as I am sure that they need that revenue to continue providing an online game that does not require a monthly fee.

Please take the time to provide thoughtful responses and not attack others for their points of view.

Peace

There are many more spells in Fire line. I'll have to test it out tonight to see if it is completely useless because before fire line was nerfed, I know many other skill lines are "ignored": Mesmer's Inspiration, Ranger's Beast Mastery.

Elementalist still has Lightning, Water and Earth. Mix things a little bit because water + fire can be a deadly combination. Now the monsters would run when they see aoe, snare them first and aoe them with fire spells. That way not only you damage them, but they also don't damage you (unlike before). That's how "tank" came about. Because monsters would just keep attacking the soft target and thus force us to invent "tankers" and rely so much on healers.

We have more ways to counter monsters IMO. The game may get a bit harder but isn't this what people want? Do you honest thinkg "nuker, tanker, healer" is a good way to enjoy PvE?

I see a lot of people in this post claiming that AOE has been nerfed. From trying it out, I have not found that to be the case. Thunderhead is now much easier for fire eles.

To do some damage? Errm, if not, it'll take an ele anywhere from 6 to 8 seconds before he deals ANY kind of significant damage. Having 1 snare seems insufficent; furthermore don't the slowdowns stack? Of course my argument that one is getting diminishing returns as one tries to make Fire AoE viable still stands.

I'll probably retool my ele into something else, but it is sad that I won't be able to use fire with the way it is intended to be used (ie. the spirit of which the spell was designed for is now gone). Instead of being the primary damage dealer it is now an mob scatterer. It is wrong on so many levels I think it'll take me an age to explain them all.

You are correct there are plenty of other combinations. These combintions will be created and new "cookie cutter" builds will be published. But I believe your missing the largest complaint that I see and that is they have effectively trashed an ENTIRE line of skills. Unless they make it so that AoE skills like Meoter Shower can be casted on just and area that than a targeted foe. (Which would allow nukers to sorta trap a group by sorounding then with nuked areas) They might as well just take the whole fire line out of the game.

Awesome, another update gone by and still no updated 15k tormentors set. How long as it been now? I lost track of the months.

Because a fluid game means unpredictability, which means replay value. A good player adapts their playing style to be successful. PvP players do it constantly as trends emerge. Why shouldn't PvE players learn to adapt too?

By the way, my ele/me was kicking butt last night with aoe spells.

I'm sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree on the impact of this update.

I just did a few runs with my farming builds. They kind of confirmed the new update is somewhat stupid. The original idea (making monsters/henchmen more intelligent) was good but the results are very poor. You can still solo-farm quite easily. It takes a little more time due to the running back and forth, but when the enemy group is large enough it doesn't matter, and you're generally safer (as you're not constantly attacked). On the contrary, teamplay has been strongly affected by the update because the whole tanking+nuking concept is now partly obsolete.

Worst of all, you can now control the aggro if you spam AoE while solo-farming. When your hp level is a little low, you just need a quick AoE, and the monsters will run away and give you a few seconds of regeneration time. Get 15/20 griffons around you and switch on zealot's fire and it looks like a comedy movie.

So the update didn't upgrade the monsters AI. They're still stupid, but in a different way. The idea behind the update was good but the result is disappointing. Not only the running away doesn't stop farming, but it drastically affects many AoE spells which haven't been buffed in return.

No offense intended but the core of the problem (farming + a couple of overpowered skills) should have been addressed by a skill or monster update. SF farming was perfectly fine, and adding monsters, or elemental immunity could have made it harder. As for solo farming, adding disenchanters/snares/DoT (+stance breaking) in popular farming places would have killed 90% of solo farmers.

Instead ANet chose to implement a huge patch that will hardly affect the players who exploited the old flaws. We'll find/copy new optimized farming builds in a few days. But at the same time, the patch overkilled AoE. We'll lose many AoE spells (and more generally the AoE effect) in the process, or even worse, we'll exploit AoE to control the new stupid AI by triggering its running (such as with a dumb fireball).

As for beginners, I sympathize with their lack of experience and their inability to adapt.

wow this is obserd , i see over 1000 posts by the end of the day.

Don't worry, I am sure anet welcomes all kinds of responses to their updates and they will make many more! That's why I like Guild Wars. When is the last time Diablo was update??? YEARS??? lol

If they think this new change ruins the game, I am sure they'll fix it. Don't give it up yet.

Having said that, I actually give up PvE to do PvP now JUST BECAUSE of this "nuker, healer, tank" thing. I find it extremely boring and prejudice. I am a ranger beast master myself and I can tell you it's not easy to find a group. This will give mesmer/necro/ranger primary more chances to join groups now.

I know it takes a lot of time to build a new PvE character but the new change does not ruin the WHOLE class. Elementalist still has other spells, Warrior can now focus more on interruption/damage rather than just "tanking". Monks now may have a chance to heal less because of this "tanking" philosophy. Fire elementalist can use aoe spells to save the team. Why don't people think of that?

Because we chose to play the game differently! Would you want to "adapt" your playing style to be the same as a PvE player? Think!