Guild Wars Update - Nov 10 and Nov 11

I just played through Grenth's Footprint and Sorrow's Furnace as a Fire Elementalist with mostly AoE spells. Firestorm, Meteor (but not shower), Fireball, Incendiary Bonds were all on my skillbar.

Holy crap, PvE is fun again. Considering how I was using a full henchgroup, that's saying a lot.

The whole thing just felt dynamic. Enemies ran to protect themselves. I had to make sure I was positioned properly since enemies actually moved. This opened up SO many doors to the PvE game. Warriors have a reason to bring Hamstring, rangers have a reason to bring Pin Down, eles have a reason to pack water spells. Oh, and rangers can actually trap without Mantra of Resolve! That's right, trap up the area, then unload Fireball. More than likely, fleeing enemies will cripple themselves trying to escape.

And instead of explaining the last benefit of this, I'll post a quote from the Library of Wisdom on the Importance of Positioning:

Adapt. Have fun.

Actually they aren't the same. The eternal bow is a bit different. You are thinking of the storm bow which is crap. Sundering sucks mathematically and in use. Fortitude is a good choice.

Yeah, I'll take fortitude over sundering any day. Oh wait!

In my opinion this is a major problem. The community is being ripped apart. I spent some time just sitting in outposts reading, and all I saw was argument after argument. How is this going to boost teamwork? I see a future of PUGs even worse than it's current state, full of slanderous, "Why did you cast THAT? You noob!"

Yeah, it's like this:

Eternal Bow = Composite/Recurve Bow = Dead Bow
Storm Bow = Long Bow
Shadow Bow = Ivory Bow = Horn Bow
Half Moon = Short Bow
Flatbow = Crap (unless you have Favorable Winds)

And yes Sundering -and- Furious are both crap. Only decent prefix mods (read: that do something more than 10% of the time) are Vamp/Zealous/Elemental...

Alright, back to discussing this trash update.

Anet is just fukin damn as ass. People like to farm, its their godamn choise. People want to get pimped out items and look sweet. Eventually all the gold ni the game will be spent on armor, and there will be very little left. ANet will be lucky to sell 100,000 copies of chapter 2 with the amount of people they are driving out of the game. THey should have just released and left the game the way it was.

All I can say about this update is thank goodness I stopped using chaos storm - or now I would be bothered. Luckily I don't use any other AoE spells (other than whirlwind) so it doesn't really effect me. But I think this is Anet's way of making the game more challenging with tough AI. Once of course they fix some of the smaller bugs, like the cowardness now found in some creatures that will run as soon as they see you.

in time running wont make you nearly as much, as farming is very time consuming now. people dont realize that farming is the base of the entire economy. without farmers there would be no gold to pend on runners, or armor.

You do mean utterly retarded AI, don't you?

FFS people, all A.Net did was add a damn check to detect AoE , and if positive, all monsters flee then return...and you guys really think this is an improvement to AI? LOL.

Now were being forced to completely adjust our builds around ridiculously stupid AI. They were smarter when they were just sitting in the AoE. Hell, at least they were still hitting you and doing damage.

quoted for truth

Cheers anet, great update.

Ok, replace Tough AI, with 'unpredictable' AI.

Are you serious???

Yes, many of us non-whiners are playing and having fun. I know I loved it so far.

No offense intended but it's by no means more intelligent or less predictable. Monsters are still stupid, but in a different way.

So your guild dosent help u out with stuff like that?

So guildies are obliged to pay for your 15k armor???

I don't understand what is the big problem that people are having. I have switched from fire to other elements since the second week of playing (once I got a decent skillset nonfire).

This game is not all about how you can do the most damage. That is why water magic is undervalued. If you bring a water magic elementalist to snare then you will be fine. You can use earth magic ward against foes as well...

Anet developers are trying to discourage w/mo/nuker teams and they are doing a good job doing so. It is time for the realization, damage isn't everything.

when did i say they have to?

lol u have a point .

And it won't be, even now. Even with the "upgrade" to enemy AI, they will not coordinate anywhere _near_ how humans can coordinate. PvE enemies don't chat like humans. They don't focus fire like humans. They don't come in with specific builds designed to counter specific other builds like humans. They don't prioritize targets like humans. They don't run away or regroup and restrategize if a battle is not going well. They don't use terrain to their advantage well. They're BOTS, and human imagination and craftiness will consistently surpass their AI.

Making PvE AIs a bit less blatantly self-destructive is not the end of the world, Chicken Littles in this thread aside.

Well Said

If anet is going to make it so that I have to play a certain build to be even remotely useful well then this game is gone for me and I just won't stick around for Chapter II.

Don't tell me to run a different build. I put hours into my fire ele, buying the good equipment, getting all the skills, etc.

For me, the point is not just the fact that fire damage has been modified so radically, it's that - when will it stop?

They will most certainly do to air/earth/water that they did to fire. And if any other primary class build becomes too powerful, that will beat down.

If that trend continues, how will we actually be able to kill anything?

My 2 cents.......

Frog beat me to it.

Predictable still because you know they are going to run like poonanies.
Stupid because, well, they run.

Think about this, too: Why would higher-level monsters (usually they are higher level than you, as you progress through the game), which normally outnumber you, and have infinite energy - want to run from you anyway?

I'll just say that I'm 50/50 for and against this patch for various reasons, some already stated...

My main question is that I see some say 'start using slowing effect spells/skills' and a lot point to Water, but won't the minute you use Fire spells take away the effect the Water spells give? Seems like I read that somewhere.

It has been my experience that when a game upgrade states "improved AI" it usually means ....... game cheats more.

Guild Wars Chapter II WARNING: Not for casual PvE players!

You “noobs” need to learn a new build!

With the stroke of the Enter key, ANet put a stop (more of a damper) to those awful fire nukers and their high-powered AoE attacks. The reign (err…shower) of terror in the farming lands was silenced for mere minutes as people drained the Rune Traders of their Superior Air, Water and Earth runes. But in the end (a whole 10 minutes), farming resumed in the usual places with the usual groups and at the usual pace. Once again proving you cannot stop the only thing people have left to do in this game.

People spamming “you noobs need to learn a new build” quickly boiled my blood as I so badly wanted to put my hard earned Rago’s Flame Staff through the face of their smug avatar. How dare they call me a noob? I have played every primary type of character. I have my four favorite level 20’s maxed and “pimped out” with Draknor’s armor and green weapons with every dot on the map (as many of us do). Not into getting 15k.

I also have FOURTY-SEVEN (47!!!) unused skill points and nearly every single skill for both the primary and secondary classes on my favorite character (a monk). Although this probably pales in comparison with other people, it moves me to the point of this letter. WHAT THE HECK AM I GOING TO DO WITH THEM? And what has been the point of actually getting them?

Before the time of the Sorrow’s Furnace area, I farmed and helped out guildmates (and still do) earn their next levels. With the addition of SF, I was contented with helping the NPC’s in their quests deep inside the Furnace. It was fun, it was fresh, and it was like…….playing a game again. But within weeks, the “LFG SF Quests” or “LFG for Defend this or that” quickly changed to “LFG Farming – Tanks, Echo Nukers and Monks needed.”

You want to stop me from farming, GIVE ME SOMETHING TO DO! Let me become level 30, 40, 100. The cat-and-mouse game of squelching a particular build will continue. It will ultimately lead to increased difficulty of the game simply because we won’t be able to kill anything efficiently. Or at least damper farming until PEOPLE HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO DO! But now, by the time we finally will have something to do, we won’t be able to stop the enemies from sending us back to the outpost.

What Anet has done (and will continue to do) is simply kill the fresh, new player from having fun with a given build. They could have easily let the game go until the expansion (if one is even in the works). I would pay $35 to $50 to get that feeling I had when playing the game the first time through again. But now, I am going to be getting the feeling of a fresh new game by buying……a new game. Maybe $14.99 a month will buy some competent programmers that actually studied past MMORPG’s and provide their players with a compelling game world. I was going to buy a second copy of GW so I could have all the character types but who knows which build is going to be crushed and when, ending months of my (virtual) blood, sweat and tears questing, farming, and having fun building a character the WAY I WANT.

The graphics are good, the first time through story was good and the additions were refreshing, but now we are stuck with the way you (ANet) have led us…...bored and with seemingly useless character builds. And no, I don’t get into PvP because I would rather play BF2.

Thank you for reading this or at least parts of it. I will not recommend this game to anyone. And by the way…...I QUIT!!!

P.S. I know we can slow the enemy down and nuke, but it is going to take forever to kill the badies on the wings of the areas that are choke points in the game (ex. Thunderhead Keep when you breach the top wall half way through or Abbadon’s Mouth with Jaded Bows and Mursaat on the wings near the door with a Seal).

Which specific single Ele build is it that you feel compelled to play to be remotely useful?

An Air Spike build?
An Earth Ward build?
A Water Snare build?
An Air/Earth combo based around knockdown?
A Water/Earth combo that sets wards, blinds, weakens and slows enemies?
An anything/Fire combo that lets you use Lava Font, Flame Burst et al. to keep melee enemies away while you cast from your main attribute?
Combining Ele spells with secondary skills in creative ways?

I forget, which one of those is the useful one again?

A game can cheat? A non-living, programmed entity can cheat? And I am the definition of a casual player. I have put in, with all my toons, a little under 300 hours of play since the game came out. My guess that is right smack dab in the middle of how often people play. I am the casual player and I love the update. Challenge is good. Makes a group use more tactics in going FTW.

umm I like to stick to one class but thats just me. Earth warder is not NEEDED jst like necro's and mesmers in PvE. They are helpful but not a neccesity. Later on in the game its becomes more apperent but still they are not always needed. Call me ignorant to waht they can do but its how the game works. In PvP they are essential. My first character was a necro. I play mesmer for PvP almost always. The simple fact is that their use in PvE is limited. Air spike YAY I hit the boss for 28 dmg with my lightning orb thats just UBER. Water snare great I mean I do pathetic damage and it takes longer. The simple fact is that the AI is not smart therfore you don't need the level of competition as in PvP. If you want to make it PvP then I guess I'll quit too. When I do PvE I expect something. When I do PvP I want to be challenged. PvE has always been a drag but they just made it worse. And yes I have hit a boss for 28 with my fricking lightning orb.

Quoted for truth.

I didn't even try to read all those farmer's complains. This update makes the game more challenging and more fun to play, that's all I can see. I hope they will work on improving AI mobs further.
Come on, you would really expect your monk boss to stay 10 seconds under your maelstrom, keeping getting interrupted? Bring a mesmer or a ranger to do the "dirty" job.
When you fight against lvl 24 ice imps, you obviously move away from their aoe casting (otherwise you should reconsider your tactics). Now they do the same, fair game.

We all know that AOE casting used to be a CHEAP way to do tons of damage. But does it really work in pvp? Not really, everyone will spread apart the second a meteor shower is casted. And this is the purpose of those aoe skills : causing battlefield mayhem and breaking other team's formation. Those spells are still useful to cast but not in the way we used to know.

I can't understand why people look for an UNBALANCED game where AI mobs doesn't even stand a chance against a not-too-dumb human pug.
If only mobs AI had better skills and fighting tactics, pve could be a lot funnier to play. Ever dreamed of fighting a 8-monster mobs using top guild build?

As an ele, I'm not a "Echo M3teAr Nuk3rZ" since the early days and I'm glad Anet encouraging people to try new attribute lines.

More diversity, less dumbness. Keep up the good work.

Yes games can cheat. I mean in Civ I my 3 tanks are beaten by their dated swordsmen Oh yeah!!!

I see your point but what I don't understand is what the big problem is with people whose profession of choice is straight fire. They paid their money like everyone else, they choose their skills from the same list that every other elemental gets, what's wrong with them choosing fire? So what if it's not highly creative, their money...their choice.

Actually they both have the same attack rate:
A Longbow has a longer range
A Eternal Bow has shorter flight time (amount of time to get to the target)

me button smashing?? are you kidding me. I do pvp and that's what I love but saying that this has made the challenge harder or for the better is idiotic. As stated before making balthazars aura something that makes you INVULNERABLE to melee based opponents for 10-12 secs is idiotic.

Good thing I was prepared a long time ago...
My ele is set with all skills and near perf modded collectors 20/20 staves for each of my attribute lines =)
...I wonder what will be the future price of Flint's Fleshcleaver....

This game is not a MMORPG...it was never intended to be one and it never will be one. It's not conventional so I don't know why you expected conventional actions from ArenaNet. You probably are better off with WoW or some game like it...which isn't a bad thing, it's just readily apparent that Guild Wars(and any game that requires you to think rather than button smash) isn't for you.


all this change really did was point out the importance of positioning...if the nuker casts a fire storm and the mob runs into the tank(OMG we have to actually think about this shit now?) the tank is still tanking and the nuker is still nuking...it's against all theories of nature for the mob to stand there and get beat up on.

And they can STILL choose straight fire. They can set enemies on fire, they can make fire rain from the skies, they can torch anyone who dares to get close to them, and they can cast bursts of fire that char enemies who stand too close to each other.

They just can't rely any more on fire tactics that are based around blatantly braindead enemy AI. Now the enemies are only MOSTLY braindead and a bit more interested in self-preservation. This requires a change of tactics, not a change of profession.

I expect a future update to tweak fire skills a bit in ways that'll make AoE fire a little more useful, without buffing them to the point where they're the default choice for any Ele again. Tweaking Orion a bit and making more viable Fire alternatives available in early towns might help as well.

so still no word from anet??? golly i hope they reverse this patch.