Guild Wars Update - Nov 10 and Nov 11

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

11 Nov 2005 at 19:10 - 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyoda
but also read mine ... we shouldn't be forced to use different skills ... we're always using different skills as they come, and we find out which are best suited for different battles.

not just eliminate skills ~

Aye, I agree. That's why I edited my post... if a Monster would stay at least for a little while under Fire Storm, that would be more realistic.

Then you could cast other spells to keep them there.

I do think the patch needs to be tweaked, but I'm not opposed to enemies running from AoE spells at a certain point (at 1/2 life, for ex.).

Sir Skullcrasher

Sir Skullcrasher

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

15 over 50 [Rare]

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 19:10 - 882
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWGuru
omg...just use a snare first. Why is that so hard to understand?
I don't have snare nor do i intend on getting skills to slow enemies down.. I like to chase them for miles and kill them in the end and to see that no drops for me!

Guru.. please don't flame me.. i'm just putting up the point that AoE is forcing people to play smart instead of the good old way of nuking them to death!

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

11 Nov 2005 at 19:12 - 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by WANWeaver

I wanted this type of behavior I would work with PuGs....

1) AoE scatters monsters - Henchies follow - Henchies Aggro
2) Aoe scatters henchies - Henchies Aggro

I don't farm, I'm not focused on smiting monks.... I simply use henches because I try to avoid some of the insanity that they cause.... Now the heches are worse that every "L33t D00d3" 12-year-old in the game.....

Ugh. Now that's not good....

blueyoda

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

MAGE

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:12 - 884
bah, I think it's rediculous ... I've never gone on a forum for a game before to complain ~ I usually just quit

the fricken cinematic for this game is bogus now that the monsters Cynn is attacking "actually get hit" 0.o

Paradigm

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

Deaths Assassin

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 19:13 - 885
Dont like the update? Petition
http://www.petitiononline.com/qd22556/petition.html

ChoKILLate[FDG]

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

[FDG]-Fudge

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:14 - 886
I have 2 copies of this game and have been playing it since day one. This new patch sucks a$$!

1.) The majority of fire skills are AOE
2.) The only good smite skills are AOE except Shield of Judgement (elite)
3.) The only available good ele skills for the first 2/3 of the game are fire. PvE people are comfortable with fire eles because of this. They need to now go back and add other ele skills earlier in the game!
4.) Monsters flee right away. At least let them get hit a couple of times or all these big powerful 25 energy AOE skills become totally worthless.
5.) All these skill I bought now have to be changed....shouldn't I get some gold back?!
6.) Same goes with my runes and staffs!
7.) They need to change some of the NPC skills. They now run away from Cynn making her useless.

BTW how do other spells like Maelstrom, Chaos Storm, Barrage, Symbol of Wrath, Well of Suffering, and Well of Profane affect creatures? Do they cause them to run away or spread out further?

blueyoda

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

MAGE

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:14 - 887
petition signed ~ # 164

Nefertem

Nefertem

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

Initech

The Bobs

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:15 - 888
I believe that they will probably revise this, given the outpour of discontent regarding the patch, so I think we should all just calm down

blueyoda

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

MAGE

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:16 - 889
calm and waiting ~

Raptox

Raptox

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

Huntington Station, NY

Une Annee Sans Lumiere [UASL]

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:17 - 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Ugh. Now that's not good....
I've found that henchies previously listened to "ground-click" movement better than WASD movement when you want them to regroup. Can someone run a test where Thom or Cynn run off and you try to get them back with ground-clicks? What about calling targets? Do they listen?

If the answer to both of these is "no," then I know I'm totally screwed.

The New Guy

The New Guy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Southern CALI

Eraserheads

N/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:18 - 891
The solution to this problem is very easy and if one of the members of ANET is reading this, here is our solution.....

REVERSE YOUR UPDATE! PUT PVE BACK FROM THE WAY IT WAS BEFORE!

Gah! No one was complaining on how it was 1 or 2 days ago! Ok, maybe just 5% of 'em who doesn't understand WHAT PVP is there for!

PLS put it back from the way it was. We were all happy from how it used to be. Dammit try even looking at my previous post here in this site, YOU wont see any complains from me....well, xcept from the ones I recently made because of this update.

Memphis

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

UK

Natis Ignigena

R/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 19:20 - 892
Anyone tried this early in game or even in pre sear yet?
Most opinions on this are from a pvp/lvl20 point of view.

I'd love to see a lvl 1 elem try to use their new Firestorm spell on the groups of Ice Golems that come barrelling in. You know, the one's that you're meant to use Firestorm on to kill. Come to think of it any low level elems who now find themselves getting their team massacred by doing nothing more than casting almost any of the spells in their skill list.

People saying this update is good and is doing as intended, take a step back from where you are in the game and realise that for the greater majority this game is now broken.

apocalypse_xx

apocalypse_xx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:21 - 893
I believe that many people are missing the point here...there are players like myself that enjoy solo play, for various reasons, yes we can adapt, no problem, I still solo UW just like always, but, the part I am finally realizing is this, solo players are not welcome in GW, they never were, this game was designed to be team played. I am not saying this is bad by any stretch, it is just that we tried to make GW something it is not, I do not believe that anet will reverse the update, simply because the result is exactly what they wanted...for the most part, they want to stop solo play, Gaile said it herself on page 17, it was fun while it lasted for people like myself, treasure hunters or whatever you want to call us

Fantus

Fantus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 19:21 - 894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel Eldritch
Well don't join a group with ppl using scatter causing AoEs. True, true... easier said than done as Eles aren't the only ones with scatter AoEs, but if no one is using scatter AoEs then there will be no probs.
As a Mesmer, you usually have to consider yourselves lucky to even get INVITED to a group. Next problem is that you won't know if that ele is a nuker (eeeek, kick them!!!) or a water ele (cool!!!!). They all look the same.

Next thing - especially in UW / FoW: How are you actually supposed to kill the critters in a REASONABLE time without a nuker? I loved the groups they were before (if I could get into one, that was...): Tanks who could tank, nukers who would do the brunt of the damage, Monks who'd prot and heal, Necros who would care about the monks's energy and do nasty stuff to critters and Mesmers who'd wreak havoc among enemy caster types. Everyone had a specific role. Tactics. Strategy. Now's it all about playing tag with madly dashing Ataxes and Shadow Warriors. Leroy Jenkins style of gameplay. Everybody runs away from everybody. And nukers will take the Mesmers' role of the most hated class in the game. Even worse, since Mesmers were only considered useless while nukers from now on will be considered DANGEROUS.

WANWeaver

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

R/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 19:21 - 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptox
Can someone run a test where Thom or Cynn run off and you try to get them back with ground-clicks? What about calling targets? Do they listen?

If the answer to both of these is "no," then I know I'm totally screwed.

As someone who knows the WASD, ground-click, and "I'm targeting myself" method of controlling henchies I can tell you with no-reserveration that none of it works anymore except the target-calling...

"I'm targeting myself"
"I'm targeting myself"
"I'm targeting myself"

Stupid-stupid-Cynn........

Santanus_Perro

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Scott Township, PA

Iron Rangers

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 19:22 - 896
Man, if there was ever a poster child for people who desperately need to read "Who Moved My Cheese?", it is the vast majority of the posters in this thread. Seriously, read the book. It is the best piece of advice you will ever receive.

Raptox

Raptox

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

Huntington Station, NY

Une Annee Sans Lumiere [UASL]

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:24 - 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by WANWeaver
As someone who knows the WASD, ground-click, and "I'm targeting myself" method of controlling henchies I can tell you with no-reserveration that none of it works anymore except the target-calling...

"I'm targeting myself"
"I'm targeting myself"
"I'm targeting myself"

Stupid-stupid-Cynn........
Oh balls...

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 19:24 - 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedMan
Attention all people: There is not a single SUP Air or a SUP Earth runes.
This if messed up. Screw this game. Im out.

Laterz
has anybody noticed all the new shiny fresh new members and how many of them seem to be of trollish ancestory?

The New Guy

The New Guy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Southern CALI

Eraserheads

N/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:25 - 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyoda
petition signed ~ # 164
Petition signed as well.

blueyoda

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

MAGE

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:25 - 900
Mesmers were never useless... just not as vital as a tank or a monk.

Every character is important, which was what made this game amazing, now ... not so amazing

GWGuru

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 19:26 - 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
has anybody noticed all the new shiny fresh new members and how many of them seem to be of trollish ancestory?
OMGZ!@#!@#! banned members coming back with new names? that never happens on forums

aron searle

aron searle

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

11 Nov 2005 at 19:26 - 902
For all those people saying use snare, use your noggin yourself and stop copy and pasting that quote

What if your class DOES NOT HAVE SNARE, that means you CANT USE THE HENCHIES THAT HAVE AOE.

well done

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 19:29 - 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWGuru
OMGZ!@#!@#! banned members coming back with new names? that never happens on forums
im shocked, shocked that there is gambling at Ricks casino

thanks for the laugh

domino69

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

R/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:29 - 904
nov 10 patch = beginning of the end of gw...

the best form of petition would be for all pissed off players to not log in for the next day or two...

then we'll see some chicken little incidents at the anet offices

CoCantz

CoCantz

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Denmark, EU

N/

11 Nov 2005 at 19:30 - 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by X Bound X
You mean these skills?

Firestorm, Fireball, Flame Burst... Ignite Arrows, 100 Blades [E]

Count em up, 40 skills affected by this update...
You can save your "tough lucks" and "your adapt and overcome nonsense."
40 skills...
You can't justify that.
1th this thread is way to long for me to keep up so I dont know if anyone answered this yet. I think someone did but since he is getting back at me - I'll answer just in case

you mention all these 40 skills... but your wrong - ex Shield of Jugdement only deal dmg to 1 target at the time... everyone attacking = 40 targets attacking you = 40 single target dmg...
Mark of pain deal dmg the same way... single target dmg to those close
...and so on with alot of your 40 skills - point being that they are not even touched by this update... (beside getting stronger cuz others been nerfed)

still... important thing - the AoE spells aint broken - only nerfed (quite a bit though) "just" use slow/knockdown what ever to make em stay
...or find other ways to deal dmg - like mass conditioning, MinionMasters or... you figure out

- CoCantz

mishop

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 19:31 - 906
I really really hope Anet does not undo this change because I've seen these threads before in other games.

- Anyone who remembers AC1 remebers all the threads screaming about keeping bots, making spells easier to cast, etc. Now that game is dead.

- Anyone who remembers Planetside remebers the calls for stronger weapons for the 'experienced players'. Game is now dead.

There are many examples.

Any game that listens to these complaints and responds will end up with a game with no challange, and that game will die.

Players will ask for the game to be easier for them, then they will get bored and quit.

You need a game to keep challenging you, keep you adapting, keep you off balance. Otherwise, you will get bored and move on.

This is not in the best interest of even the farmers, as they need large populations of players to sell things to.

If this patch gets removed because of players complaining that it makes the game harder for them, take it as a sure sign that the game is on the road to inevitable death.

The only way for Anet to survive is to continue to tweak and challnge and completely ignore any complaint, petition, remark or anything else that begs to make the game status quo.

Don't do it. Make it harder. Keep nerfing. Make players adapt and change. The game depends on it.

Wrath Of Dragons

Wrath Of Dragons

Burninate Stuff

Join Date: Aug 2005

New Mexico

E/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 19:32 - 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
we had to adapt to spirit spam, air spike, iway, and ranger spike didn't we. its nothing new. the spells are toned down b/c of pve groups always wanting the same thing : 1-2 wars, 1-2 monks, and rest eles. that is crap and needs to be fixed.

they are not useless. fire font and symbol of wrath now protect you for very cheap energy cost.

the one shot aoe spells should not trigger the AI. that is the only part about this that is a little over the top.

/signed

Fantus

Fantus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 19:32 - 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyoda
Mesmers were never useless... just not as vital as a tank or a monk.

Every character is important, which was what made this game amazing, now ... not so amazing
Don't tell me, I know that.

The majority of people forming groups in ToA didn't want anything else besides Tanks, Fire Nukers and Monks, though. Now they probably will take Tanks, Earth and Water Mages and Monks. It's not that is update is likely to improve the one-sidedness of most FoW/UW parties. Only the role of the least liked class will change...

The Son Of Morgoth

The Son Of Morgoth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Maryland

The Servants Of Morgoth

N/

11 Nov 2005 at 19:35 - 909
is it just me or do most of the people seem to want this update reversed? doesnt majority rule? well hopefully it does otherwise i dont think we are goign to have have people buying the guildwars expansion especially when a world of warcraft expansion is comin out soon as well.

WickedMan

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2005

Vandalism

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 19:36 - 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWGuru
OMGZ!@#!@#! banned members coming back with new names? that never happens on forums
Err.. I have never been registrated here b4.

id0l

id0l

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Austin, Texas, ya'll.

A/D

11 Nov 2005 at 19:37 - 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by mishop
I really really hope Anet does not undo this change because I've seen these threads before in other games.

- Anyone who remembers AC1 remebers all the threads screaming about keeping bots, making spells easier to cast, etc. Now that game is dead.

- Anyone who remembers Planetside remebers the calls for stronger weapons for the 'experienced players'. Game is now dead.

There are many examples.

Any game that listens to these complaints and responds will end up with a game with no challange, and that game will die.

Players will ask for the game to be easier for them, then they will get bored and quit.

You need a game to keep challenging you, keep you adapting, keep you off balance. Otherwise, you will get bored and move on.

This is not in the best interest of even the farmers, as they need large populations of players to sell things to.

If this patch gets removed because of players complaining that it makes the game harder for them, take it as a sure sign that the game is on the road to inevitable death.

The only way for Anet to survive is to continue to tweak and challnge and completely ignore any complaint, petition, remark or anything else that begs to make the game status quo.

Don't do it. Make it harder. Keep nerfing. Make players adapt and change. The game depends on it.
LOL, you honestly believe that nerfing entire skill types and making AI even dumber than it was is the way to keep the game alive?

How about new content, new monsters, etc., instead of making things useless and stupid. Sorrows Furnace did just that (bar the green items IMO, but some people like them), without detrimental effects to the whole population of players.

Get creative, you don't have to fall in line and agree with what the devs do, it's not like they are going to smite you for speaking out against them.

Memphis

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

UK

Natis Ignigena

R/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 19:38 - 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx
I believe that many people are missing the point here...there are players like myself that enjoy solo play, for various reasons, yes we can adapt, no problem, I still solo UW just like always, but, the part I am finally realizing is this, solo players are not welcome in GW, they never were, this game was designed to be team played. I am not saying this is bad by any stretch, it is just that we tried to make GW something it is not, I do not believe that anet will reverse the update, simply because the result is exactly what they wanted...for the most part, they want to stop solo play, Gaile said it herself on page 17, it was fun while it lasted for people like myself, treasure hunters or whatever you want to call us
I believe the point is Anet hate solo and farming players so much they're willing to ruin the game for other players. Exactly what they have done. This is a damn shame after I came back from some time off (after losing my net moving home) to find the amazingly inventive Halloween content and falling back in love with playing GW all over again.

I agree with another chap in a previous post when he challenged Anet to grow a pair and just ban farming outright. Or just remove the smite skillset and be done with it. Make monks healers and nothing else.

I also think it's both rather amusing, yet depressing that they tackle it with such blatent disregard for the players and how they enjoy playing the game.
I don't care what any PvP obsessed players say, PvE play against AI mobs was designed with the fundemental mechanics of player classes and that classes role within a balanced team. This 'improved' AI does not combine with the existing battle system and as a result the base mechanics of aggro management in PvE play are broken as soon as someone fires off an AoE spell.

All the 'Leeroy's' out there may love this charging into chaos that battles will become but the rest of us will certainly not.
Why not just give every character swordsmanship and have a /screamname emote if this is how it's supposed to be.

apocalypse_xx

apocalypse_xx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:38 - 913
I just thought I would point out something funny, GW is supposed to be team based, fine, but look how many players loved GW for farming, and farming alone, whether it was solo or small groups. SF IMO is one of the nicest areas to explore, awesome added content, but after the first couple of days, the majority of people in WC were farming greens...face it, many people enjoy farming, I know I sure do

I agree Memphis, why not just ban solo play, you can't leave a town without a full party, at least the team players can still enjoy their game they way they knew it

828168

828168

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 19:38 - 914
It wouldn't be such a problem if ANET decides to nuke the nukers and make them spikers or freezers. But the least they can do is boost their armor class so these slow spikers and freezers has a chance to stay alive. They have weak armor because they were supposed to do heavy damage to a mass. Not that easily anymore so their armor needs some adjusting. If anyone would pay me what I've paid for this game, I would've sold it in a heartbeat and move on. Unfortunately, that's not the case...

Sol_Vie

Sol_Vie

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Boston, MA

Blood Of Orr [BoO]

11 Nov 2005 at 19:38 - 915
Sheesh, this is a good update. Adapt, guys. Please? The game isn't going to end just because you don't like it. The game is harder. Too bad. Deal.

And damn this thread is exploding.

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

11 Nov 2005 at 19:39 - 916
You know, I'm still liking this change to the AI. Before I literally, would zone out during PVE because it was so boring. At least now, I have to be awake when they scatter and use more strategy. Water snares are fun as is placing traps strategically while fire bombing them.

NeoSaber

NeoSaber

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

Guildless For Life

R/N

11 Nov 2005 at 19:41 - 917
I notice some people seem to be laughing it up that 'Nukers' got hurt by this, so I thought I'd post my elementalist's build. This is the build I was using for the stuff I posted about on page 18. Please let me know if I was a "n00b echo nuker" or something else that deserved to be slapped upside the head by this change.

My E/Me uses:

Fireball
Immolate
Phoenix
Rodgort's Invocation
Glyph of Energy
Fire Attunement
Mantra of Resolve
Signet of Capture (usually a res sig, but I was skill capping with henchmen so...)

Fire Magic: 14 (12 + 1 + 1)
Energy Storage: 11 (10 + 1)
Inspiration Magic: 8

I have spent the last few weeks fine tuning the energy management for this build, after spending time hammering out which attack spells I thought worked best. I don't pretend to be an expert at this game. I'm sure this build has its flaws, but it worked well without relying on long casting, slow recharge, easy to avoid spells like meteor shower.

Did this build really deserve to be so drastically effected? My only attack spell that doesn't send monsters into a panic is immolate. Am I really such a "n00b Fire Ele" that I need to change my specs to use a different element? I've tried builds with other elements before, my E/Me even started with Air Magic, so I have most of the equipment I need to play them, that isn't an issue. I decided to try making a pyromancer. Do I really need to just trash the whole concept of this build, so "echo nukers" have to think more?

domino69

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

R/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 19:42 - 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol_Vie
Sheesh, this is a good update. Adapt, guys. Please? The game isn't going to end just because you don't like it. The game is harder. Too bad. Deal.

And damn this thread is exploding.
please, please, tell us an actual pve experience that you've had post patch and point out all the juicy details of why the update was good...

please...

and yes, the game WILL END if no one will buy the subsequent chapters bec of this "update"...

the game is not harder...its ridiculous...

Aracos79

Aracos79

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Great Southwest

Shadowstorm Mercenaries

E/

11 Nov 2005 at 19:42 - 919
This has been commented on MANY times but I'll just put it out there:

Forum posters are NOT a majority of the people playing the game, not even close. Even if 100% of the people here wanted the update rolled-back, that would NOT represent a majority of the total player base. Forum posters also have an overinflated opinion of themselves. They think the game revolves entirely around them. It doesn't folks. We're just a portion of the people out there playing this game, and a small one at that. Think about all the others out there before you claim to speak for them.

unienaule

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

11 Nov 2005 at 19:42 - 920
The henchies are bugged in a way that has nothing to do with AoE. If my target dies, the one I called, and they're in bubble range of other mobs, they will just sit there sometimes and do nothing. My horrors on the other hand went. But the henchies just stood there like idiots. All the henchies. And they were inside half a radius.