Guild Wars Update - Nov 10 and Nov 11 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 20:50 - 1001

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx

I wish I could believe that, but how do explain the quote I posted from Gaile Gray?

if you want a serious answer i will give you one.

two points actually.

first is the antibot policy which means any build which can do the highest area by itself can be bot programmed to exploit it and the results are on ebay.

second as to what she said in your quote those areas are designed to give most groups a decent level of opposition with a given loot drop for 8 people .

having 1 person with a specialized build come in and take the loot for an 8 person area for themselves is not only not realistic it is ...........refer to item number first

yeaitsjim

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

Eternal Guardians of Order [EGO]

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 20:51 - 1002

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx

Perfect solution, no more beating around the bush of solo players, I like it...no sarcasm btw

agreed man. like i always said wanna stop solo monks - when you give to 1k to the ghost if you have 1 guy in the party - deny entrance. uw soloing = no more.

apocalypse_xx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 20:52 - 1003

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

It's a multiplayer online game. Why buy it if you want to solo?

Arguments aside, I know plenty of solo monks still happily solo-ing. Yes, it takes longer, but so what? If all you want to do is solo, what difference does "time" make?

I agree 100%, solo is still there, my point is simply, anet does not want us doing it, and it gets tiring always defending the way I like to play the game. Admittedly though, I came to GW because it was free, I knew their mission statement and yet I found a way around that to play solo, like I said not bitter, just moving on

delfin42

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Ban Hammer

N/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 20:52 - 1004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete1975

End Solo farm, easy no one man enters areas, problem solved

So eight enter, seven quit out, and we're right back where we started from.

apocalypse_xx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 20:54 - 1005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

if you want a serious answer i will give you one.

two points actually.

first is the antibot policy which means any build which can do the highest area by itself can be bot programmed to exploit it and the results are on ebay.

second as to what she said in your quote those areas are designed to give most groups a decent level of opposition with a given loot drop for 8 people .

having 1 person with a specialized build come in and take the loot for an 8 person area for themselves is not only not realistic it is ...........refer to item number first

The only problem I see is this, Gaile said solo players should not be able to solo end game areas...but we are end game players, I don't see the logic here, lvl 1 players cannot solo end game areas

yeaitsjim

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

Eternal Guardians of Order [EGO]

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 20:55 - 1006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

if you want a serious answer i will give you one.

two points actually.

first is the antibot policy which means any build which can do the highest area by itself can be bot programmed to exploit it and the results are on ebay.

second as to what she said in your quote those areas are designed to give most groups a decent level of opposition with a given loot drop for 8 people .

having 1 person with a specialized build come in and take the loot for an 8 person area for themselves is not only not realistic it is ...........refer to item number first

I by no means disagree with you, just to state. Only thing that kills me, is I like a bunch want this thing called Fissure armor. Ecto costs 16k now I think, changes all the time. In 8 man parties - you know how much ecto I get spending 1- 5 hours avg. in UW, 0 to 2.

With my solo monk, 30min to 1 hour, 0 - 5+. (Not directed to you a hypotetical) Explain to me why anyone who is able, wouldnt solo - to me it would be more unfair to say "ok people soloed, so umm you guys that have no ecto now umm ya cant...but those guys they already have a lot...but uhh well too bad."

ChoKILLate[FDG]

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

[FDG]-Fudge

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 20:55 - 1007

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWGuru

calling Zelda an RPG is a huge disjustice to the term RPG and all the RPG games that have been produced...but so be it. Guild Wars is an RPG...you're simply not equipped to play an RPG that requires a thought process.

Do you really just like to argue with everyone or are you just playing Devil's Advocate?!

blueyoda

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

MAGE

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 20:55 - 1008

That actually would make perfect sense ... why kill off skills n such when you can just do what was required to get Res Signet back in Pre?? Have a "real" party to finish quests or gain entry to an area ... easy as pie ... <-- take a peek A-Net plz plz

Strik3r

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Canada

11 Nov 2005 at 20:56 - 1009

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx

I agree 100%, solo is still there, my point is simply, anet does not want us doing it, and it gets tiring always defending the way I like to play the game. Admittedly though, I came to GW because it was free, I knew their mission statement and yet I found a way around that to play solo, like I said not bitter, just moving on

That's not true, Anet did that mainly because of the people running bots. They said somewhere that Farming was legal tho they did not encourage it.

Mimi Miyagi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Port Orchard, WA

The Second Foundation: [TSF]

11 Nov 2005 at 20:57 - 1010

While others in my guild solo farm, I don't, trapping still works fine in UW. But I'm tired of the endless nerfing to combat bots, when they should concentrate on banning bot behavior instead of ruining the game for honest players.

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

11 Nov 2005 at 20:57 - 1011

Does everyone want some cheese to go along with all this whine?????

Get over it people. I really like this (and I have a fire ele that I loved playing). I hope a lot of people do leave the game because of this. The type of people that leave are the type of people I dont like playing with in the first place.

Learn to adjust.

apocalypse_xx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 20:57 - 1012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strik3r

That's not true, Anet did that mainly because of the people running bots. They said somewhere that Farming was legal tho they did not encourage it.

Right, my point exactly, they do not encourage it, and that is fair enough, so GW is not what I am looking for in an online game, it was still a very enjoyable 6 months

Loralai

Purveyor of Useless Info

Join Date: Oct 2005

Perpetual Motion Squad [PMS]

Mo/

11 Nov 2005 at 20:59 - 1013

Quote:

That's not true, Anet did that mainly because of the people running bots. They said somewhere that Farming was legal tho they did not encourage it.

If this is the case....solution=bot detection installation.

blueyoda

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

MAGE

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 20:59 - 1014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

Does everyone want some cheese to go along with all this whine?????

Get over it people. I really like this (and I have a fire ele that I loved playing). I hope a lot of people do leave the game because of this. The type of people that leave are the type of people I dont like playing with in the first place.

Learn to adjust.

well it's fine that you don't mind spending 15 min watching enemies run around like chickens chasing your monk, monk getting pissed and leaving.

but some of us liked it how it was and think there are alternative ways for them to "single out" farming or whatever their approach was for this update.

Knots In Socks

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

St. Louis, MO

Tears of the Abandoned Myth

N/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:00 - 1015

Im still waiting for them to update the pet AI! I mean seriously, pets have much to be desired, but the AI is just horbile. IF you were going to change Henchi and moster AI, why not pets!?

apocalypse_xx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:00 - 1016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

Does everyone want some cheese to go along with all this whine?????

Get over it people. I really like this (and I have a fire ele that I loved playing). I hope a lot of people do leave the game because of this. The type of people that leave are the type of people I dont like playing with in the first place.

Learn to adjust.

wow, I never thought of that, if you had read the last couple pages of posts, I think you would have noticed that this is not about adjusting, we can all do that...we are just tired of doing it because our game play is not encouraged

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:02 - 1017

WTH are you guys talking about? Soloing is still as viable as it ever was. You just can't nuke your way around any more (at least not easily).

FWIW, mobs do NOT always run from AoE spells, they often do but not always. Mobs will now also run if they take a lot of beating, and it seems as if they will try to kite the player so he'll trigger the next mob. Unless your warrior pays attention, you'll get a lot more adds now. A LOT more if you've got a Leeeroy.

Henches do NOT scatter at the slightest sign of AoE spells. They will try to get out of the immedate zone of effect, but wont run far. You certainly wont get them aggroing the next and the next and the next mob (but human warriors with their brain on autopilot will).

All mobs, whether there's AoE or not around, will run around much more than they used to; there's much less of stand around and slog it out. Especially enemy casters will try to run from your warriors. Battles get more confused and chaotic, and actually remind me a lot of random arena now.

I'm sorry you guys feel it's unfair that the mobs should fight back or try not to get killed, but personally I find the battles now much more interesting. And fun.

Fantus

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Nov 2005 at 21:04 - 1018

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWGuru

well now it's even MORE fun cuz it'll take you longer.

remember farming isn't about the gold or the items it's about the FUN

There is a slight difference between "fun and challenging" and "tedious". There is NO way at all you can get a Fissure armor without farming. It would take years if done by "farmless" gameplay (or another "Ecto for free party" like Anet did with the price reset). What can be "fun" when taking 3 months (that's how long it took for me to get my FoW set, since I wasn't lucky enough to have participated in the "Ecto for free party") can be utterly "unfun" if it would take a year or more.

Meta Physical

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Between heaven and hell - my own, personal limbo...

Currently in EoG

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:05 - 1019

And now, MY rant.

AoE = Useless?
What the HELL?!?!

How can the people over at A. Net do this to us? How can a game that promises to adapt to US PLAYERS, that promises to forever be a "Pick up and play" game, that states it will oblitterate monotnous gameplay twist flat on its back and destroy what many have not feared to call their prized creation - their characters. So much work has been put into getting everything WHERE IT IS for so many players that creating such an utter roadblock will SURELY sour the appeal of GW to many. I've seen a petition against this patch - that's where I'm leaving my mark next.

To A. Net - Revoke this patch, make our day.
To everyone else - Good day.

Meta

ChoKILLate[FDG]

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

[FDG]-Fudge

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:06 - 1020

If people have already found alternative ways to farm, then all this patch did was kill the smiter and fire ele for the most part!

If you want to update AI, make it so that when I have NPCs and send them off to attack a specific character, the dont stop and do NOTHING when they run into an enemy, blocking them from attacking the one I called! Also if I call a target they should continue to attack it, even if i change mine in order to disrupt or slow others. This why why it was harder to play with a mes, ranger, or water/earth ele. As soon as you go to do your job by disrupting, the NPC would change their target!

You wanna fix AI, fix that!!

blueyoda

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

MAGE

E/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:06 - 1021

totally agree ... FUN & TEDIOUS are very different.

those who like the patch can have their "fun" ... but to me and many others, it's tedious and a waste of time.

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

11 Nov 2005 at 21:07 - 1022

I like the update. Good job ANET....don't let some of these unhappy people bring you down. The AI change was a good thing.

NeoSaber

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

Guildless For Life

R/N

11 Nov 2005 at 21:08 - 1023

Just to add more observations of the new AI behavior.

I took my E/Me back to Frozen Forest, still trying to capture Ward Against Harm (the boss didn't show up after several tries). Finally I found him and the battle went like this:

Arknel Havenwood casts Ward Against Harm
Oenth Sabreth casts Fireball
Arknel Havenwood panics and runs out of his own ward
Henchmen rush into attack
Arknel Havenwood casts Ward Against Harm again
Oenth Sabreth casts Phoenix
Arknel Havenwood panics again and runs out of his own ward again
Arknel Havenwood runs into a mountain and stops
Oenth Sabreth casts Immolate
Henchmen chop Arknel Havenwood to pieces while he burns to a cinder

Also, at one point I was caught in a fight with the monk boss Enshal Hardwood and an Ice Imp. That fight went like this:

Oenth Sabreth attacks Ice Imp
Henchmen charge in to attack Ice Imp
Enshal Hardwood spams Reversal of Fortune on Ice Imp
Henchmen can't kill the Ice Imp
Oenth Sabreth casts Fireball at Enshal Hardwood
Enshal Hardwood panics and runs into a mountain
Enshal Hardwood stops doing anything
Ice Imp gets slaughtered in 2 seconds
Enshal Hardwood gets slaughtered a few seconds later

This AI isn't not an improvement

Paradigm

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

Deaths Assassin

W/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 21:08 - 1024

Damn near 400 Petitions for the reversal of this update. If you do not agree with this patch please Petition...

http://www.petitiononline.com/qd22556/petition.html

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

11 Nov 2005 at 21:10 - 1025

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

I like the update. Good job ANET....don't let some of these unhappy people bring you down. The AI change was a good thing.

Even if it is, I hope that the Underworld ecto drop rates get turned up to compensate. It is MUCH harder in there now, and my groups usually see 0-2 ecto drop every 2 trips.

apocalypse_xx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:12 - 1026

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

Even if it is, I hope that the Underworld ecto drop rates get turned up to compensate. It is MUCH harder in there now, and my groups usually see 0-2 ecto drop every 2 trips.

Ya, and then those that still solo UW will get even more ectos, people will complain and solo players will get beat up again, probably to the detriment of non solo players too

Memphis

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

UK

Natis Ignigena

R/Mo

11 Nov 2005 at 21:15 - 1027

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaklex

Oh gee, players are going to have to use their brains to play PvE now, isn't that just tragic, and so it might add a few minutes here and there to kill enemies, big deal. Learn to adapt, examine ALL of the skills available to your characters, create new builds.

Killing enemy mobs that just stand around is no fun, so now they retreat and re-attack, as long as you don't chase them, switch targets more often, make them come back to you sooner. Play intelligently, which I understand is hard for a lot of people as they just can't grasp that concept. From what I've seen the enemy doesn't run around willy nilly, but will run away and return to combat, and not always before regaining health.

The chances of this update being rolled back, IMO, nill.

Come on then Mr Wisdom, explain how you 'play intelligently' and what build you would use as an elementalist hit by this. Rather than just calling everyone dumb with no substantion whatsoever other than a 'i'm better than you' attitude.

Yes they do scatter randomly and without a very organised team the harder battles of the game are going to be nothing more than a disorganised hell.

Call me what you like but I've always been convinced that the tanks with all the armour are best for tanking while monks heal and casters do their stuff from a safe distance was the most 'intelligent' battle tactic.

Half the players who even reach Ring of Fire still don't play like this so what the hell is convincing people PUGS are going to start using bait, snare and then attack tactics is unfathomable. Just watch your average PUG take on Thunderhead. For all I know you're the real Captain Wow and can take on anything and win, but from Anets perspective in keeping the game open to a wide audience, casual players and in turn general player numbers, they just sent the game straight up a certain creek, without a certain paddle.

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

11 Nov 2005 at 21:16 - 1028

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx

Ya, and then those that still solo UW will get even more ectos, people will complain and solo players will get beat up again, probably to the detriment of non solo players too

I haven't heard of anyone truely soloing UW since the 11/10 patch. I can see it being done with a necro + solo monk who DOESN'T use smite AoE *hint* *hint*

apocalypse_xx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:18 - 1029

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

I haven't heard of anyone truely soloing UW since the 11/10 patch. I can see it being done with a necro + solo monk who DOESN'T use smite AoE *hint* *hint*

Actually, solo UW is still very easy, just take a look at all the monkies in toa still

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:18 - 1030

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis

And how exactly is not being able to have any level of control over a battle when the enemies keep running in and coming back like a bloody drunken boomerang? ---
Running into a disorganised brawl where enemies constantly scatter and come back to random aggro is not fun in any sense. Granted it's comical compared to what we all once knew, but do you really want the whole game like that?

Are you seriously complaining that the enemies you're trying to kill don't comply with your attempts at killing them???

You've presumably played some PvP - do human players stand still and bang on the warrior while the elementalists bomb them?
Are PvP matches orderly affairs where the opposition does as you want?
Does the responsibility to keep a PvP match from degenerating into a brawl rest on your enemies, or on your team?
Is it the job of your enemies to make sure your team acts disciplined?

The mobs now behave a lot more like human players do - they get out of AoE and target casters first. They even try to kite human warriors to trigger adds.

In short, the mob AI is a lot better now.

It is completely beyond me that people complain about this.

It makes farming harder? Well, that means that each item you DO find will fetch more money.
It makes soloing the UW harder? Yeah, so what?
It makes the whole PvE campaign harder? Good!
It makes other classes than eles, wars and monks useful? Great!

Alanus

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2005

USA

Sasquatch Carrot Slingers [FooT]

R/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:18 - 1031

Well The whole thing Guild Wars was meant to revolve around is teamwork, and obviously soloing defeats this purpose. However how are people suposed to collect the huge amounts of money it takes for armour and stuff because like most people i can spend maybe 2 hours a day at this game if I'm not really doing anything and thats not a lot of time really. So saying that a it takes more time and is now more tedious to farm and that I must re-make my build yet again seems to agrivate me somewhat. I can tell you one thing and that is a lot more people will be buying their gold.

However the new AI does give everything a bit more of a challenge, its just going to come down to who is willing to change and who is not. And I like this in the fact that maybe my Ranger can actually get in a group now.

Igedit

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/

11 Nov 2005 at 21:20 - 1032

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx

Why can't I stay and discuss something I once enjoyed? Oh, btw, in case some have not noticed, the gap between solo players and those who do not, is getting larger as we speak, they are making a killing off sup water and air runes

So you would agree that nerfing soloing is a good thing because of the gap that is increasing, right?

Feminist Terrorist

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Oh Noes! The 'burbs!

11 Nov 2005 at 21:21 - 1033

So essentially Eles are now just weirdly dressed, not-much-damage-dealing characters who can be dangerous to the party they're in?

From everything I've read last night and today, and from my own experiences last night, Anet could have achieved less damagae by simply removing AoE spells altogether. At least then, aggro wouldn't have been broken, and we wouldn't have groups of enemies running around in a frenzy, attacking pretty much randomly.

IMO, Anet made a big mistake with this update. I, for one, will be forced to play less, since what used to take me 30 minutes will now take an hour, and I've got other things to do. I'm hugely disappointed with GW now.

apocalypse_xx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:22 - 1034

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igedit

So you would agree that nerfing soloing is a good thing because of the gap that is increasing, right?

To be honest, if GW is to be what anet wants it to be...a team based game, then yes, soloing should be removed, I think alot of people will leave because of it, but I actually think that many have left already since there just isn't much to do for solo players

delfin42

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Ban Hammer

N/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:22 - 1035

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meta Physical

AoE = Useless?
What the HELL?!?!

AoE IS NOT USELESS.

AoE cannot be used quite the same manner in which it was used last week.

There is a difference.

Yamat

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

San Diego, USA

11 Nov 2005 at 21:23 - 1036

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alanus

Well The whole thing Guild Wars was meant to revolve around is teamwork, and obviously soloing defeats this purpose. However how are people suposed to collect the huge amounts of money it takes for armour and stuff because like most people i can spend maybe 2 hours a day at this game if I'm not really doing anything and thats not a lot of time really. So saying that a it takes more time and is now more tedious to farm and that I must re-make my build yet again seems to agrivate me somewhat. I can tell you one thing and that is a lot more people will be buying their gold.

Armor isn't expensive... ecto and shards are. If people can't afford them, the price will drop.

Almighty Zi

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Cheltenham, England

Servants Of Fortuna Victrix

11 Nov 2005 at 21:25 - 1037

The way that I interpret Gaile's post is that ANET aren't opposed to farming but feel that players shouldn't be able to solo farm high end content (e.g UW). I agree with this. As the game is a team based game, hence the party window at every outpost and mission, it makes a mockery of the game when players can go out into high level areas on their own (without henchmen) and actively farm it.

There is nothing wrong with farming or wanting to play on your own, however, a single player should only be able to farm low to mid level areas on their own - in a game designed for team play. If they want to get the best drops then they should group with a guildie or two and farm the higher level areas. This is how the game should have been since day one.

In response to those people that have complained that they feel that the developers aren't allowing them to play the game the way they want to, I would just like to say that the game has been designed for team play (there's no denying this fact) and although you can play it solo, you shouldn't expect to get the most out of the game this way (e.g. solo every single area). Skill tweaks and changes to creature AI will mean that some areas that could be completed by a single player no longer can be completed by a single player and vice versa (to a lesser extent). An appropriate team will always be able to complete all the areas in the game regardless of future updates.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

11 Nov 2005 at 21:28 - 1038

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feminist Terrorist

So essentially Eles are now just weirdly dressed, not-much-damage-dealing characters who can be dangerous to the party they're in...

...if they echo-nuke with their brain on autopilot.

An ele who drops ward against foes, or uses water or earth magic snares, THEN nukes, is a valuable member of the team.

What's changed is that mobs wont stand around and let you bore them to death any more, so water and earth magic isn't useless in PvE any more.

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

11 Nov 2005 at 21:28 - 1039

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypse_xx

Actually, solo UW is still very easy, just take a look at all the monkies in toa still

Yeah, I was just here, but the monks I saw were just standing around. I didn't see the usual train of monks lining up at the reaper and paying the entry fee...

BrandonIT

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Dallas, TX

Tribal Instincts

R/E

11 Nov 2005 at 21:30 - 1040

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

The henchies are bugged in a way that has nothing to do with AoE. If my target dies, the one I called, and they're in bubble range of other mobs, they will just sit there sometimes and do nothing. My horrors on the other hand went. But the henchies just stood there like idiots. All the henchies. And they were inside half a radius.

Wanted to get this pointed out again. I also had the same problem with henchies standing within aggro's circle of Enchanted Bows, and even with me attacking the bows, the henchies refused to help.

I don't want the patch rolled back for this, but I think the henchie AI needs to be reviewed so this doesn't happen. It's quite annoying to stand there as a monk tanking the fire from two Enchanted Bows when none of the ranged henchies will fire back, even when they're taking damage. (This incident occurred engaging the 2 Enchanted Bows on each side of the main bridge leading to the Enemy Ghostly Hero in Dunes of Despair. The bridge had not dropped yet.)