Poll on the 10/10 and 10/11 Update

Originally Posted by Azian Invasion

I like the idea of the patch but the way they did it made about 60% of the characters that were out there USELESS. I also wouldnt mind the old way being brought back because 2 out of my 4 characters cannot be used to do much of anything right now...

Originally Posted by aron searle

No you are wrong, and your trying to change them to fit your view.

38% dont like it and wont accept
16% dont like it but will adapt
BUT THEY STILL DONT LIKE IT.

38+16=54%

thankyou

Originally Posted by Alexandria Kotov

As soon as I saw how it worked, I knew most of the players out there would hate it.

**WARNING. ABUSE COMING TO THE AVERAGE PLAYERS SENSE OF SELF-WORTH**

Why? Because most PvE players out there suck at this game. There are a lot of good players, but.... a stunningly large amount of ones that just shouldn't be playing skill-oriented games (Doubt that title for the game? low skill level cap, no godly items, easy-to-acquire elites makes for a VERY skill-based playing field). And this will make it harder on them.

Sure there's problems. But it's a massive improvement. I know that most players out there would rather have the enemy AI just stand there and use soap in the Meteor Showers, and hold umbrella's in the fire storm, but... too bad. Realistically, if little peices of FIRE were falling on your goredenginewhatever head, you'd MOVE. And if any of the people whining about the game ever elevate to PvE, I hope they don't expect monks to stand in their Maelstroms until their life is "at 25% or less" and then move.

And to the farmers out there... I don't think Anet cares about you whining about the griffons and aataxes running away, considering they don't support the idea of farming in the first place. Secondly, since some of us don't listen to them in this regard, it's NOT HARD TO FIND A NEW WAY TO FARM! Smiting is not your only option, and AoE is not the only type of effect that can make you mass amounts of money, fast.

Originally Posted by Arianna Darkfire

Rayzor
Town Dweller


Join Date: Nov 2005

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Here is a statement by Gaile Gray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaile
Hey, there.

First of all, let's clear something up: Defensive? Moi? Nah. If I was defensive I would have spent today hiding under my desk. I'd rather head into LA and talk to the players. I know I saw some of you there; thanks for stopping by. It was a good chat, even if the window scrolled so quickly I couldn't keep up. (Sorry!) Yes, there were a number of upset people. I think a lot of us can remember the same sort of reaction in other titles with their “Patch Days.” But the difference is, we understand and we are listening. And we'll be the first to admit that in addition to changing the game in ways that you may not have expected, we changed the game in ways that we didn't expect either, with adding a few bugs.

Can't remember all I said, but here in greater detail is what I'd like to say now:

Guild Wars has had a bit of a disconnect between the two forms of gameplay: PvP and PvE. What works beautifully in PvP may not work well in PvE, and vice versa. In part, that is ok, but it has also been not ok, because there should be a form of seamlessness between the two gameplay choices, so that what you use in one is also useful in the other. Also, there were problems with the monster and henchman AI. So, in order to bring the game back to more of a shared-experience feeling, rather than a feeling of having two entirely separate and different games, we undertook the first of a few changes: We improved the monster and henchman AI. Henchmen are more intelligent and will do things that you need them to do to get the job done. In other words, they will be more like human players. Likewise, monsters will be given a swift kick in the behi... excuse me.. will be given an similar increase in intelligence, too. Where before they stood stupidly by as Fire Storm rained death and destruction upon them, now, they might actually make a defensive move and, you know, get out of the spell effect!

For after all, monsters shouldn't be stupid. While they may never match a human player in intelligence, they should be clever and canny and crafty in figuring out how to win. If you've ever played with a kitten, you know that animals are not stupid. They assess their opponent -- even if it's just a catnip mouse. They weigh when to scratch or bite, when to pounce, and if you suddenly make ferocious noices that makes the kitten sense peril, the kitten even knows when to back away and reappraise the situation. Animals have a sense of self-preservation equal to or greater than that of humans.

The improvement to the AI will help make the monsters more "realistic," I guess you could say. It will make them more worthy opponents. Some players don't like that. They prefer the "play with one hand, eat a pizza with the other, while watching TV and talking on the phone." Or they prefer being able to solo the Underworld without breaking a sweat. And come on, guys, no one should be soloing the Underworld! It makes no sense at all, and we know it and we accept full responsibility for the fact that it was possible when it never should have been. Things were imbalanced. We've made a move towards putting them back into balance and giving greater valuation to foes of all kinds: Undead, White Mantle, Charr, and all. As monsters improve in intelligence, it allows us to improve skills so that skills that were never used in PvP will be more viable against both players and monsters. It allows us to make skills that were once used exclusively in PvP more appropriate for PvE as well.

A substantial number of people have been testing these changes for several weeks. But none of us really caught the fact that some of what we were doing wasn't quite right, and that some was, in fact, quite broken. Monster run-away was a selected, intentional mechanic. However, having them run away in a Dance Macabre, "like chickens with their heads cut off," wasn't on the To Do List. We made the change purposely because the feedback we got was that monsters were too stupid -- we knew that was true. But the change options were (1) have monsters run out of the AOE and stand on the edge in order to attack again, or (2) have them run away without the turn-and-fire, making them harder to track down and kill. We are trying for greater variety of reactions and certainly believe the animations were improveable over what we had last night.

Guild Wars had a few design issues concerning AI, and we've taken and will continue to take steps to correct that. The changes that we make may affect how you play, or perhaps even what you play. I wouldn't rush out to change every one of your characters because we're still making adjustments. And do be assured that we will be monitoring the changes to make sure that we don't change needlessly, and to make sure that what we do doesn't make a skill, or an entire skill line, useless. If a particular skill has been overly affected by the recent updates, we'll make amends by correcting that skill. If you have a case to state, state it on that: "This skill has suffered from the changes and should be improved and here’s what I’ve experienced." Not “Roll back the update,” or “I’m going to play some other game.” Help us with good analysis and with comments of a constructive nature. And watch for positive changes in the future.
__________________
Gaile Gray
Community Relations Manager
ArenaNet
www.guildwars.com

Just to let you all know they are listening to us

Also and thank you Sir Gayle for taking your time out to speak with all of us here in Guild Wars cuz we really do care about this game and community

Originally Posted by Elric_Of_Melbane

Anyone for some cheese with all this cry baby whinning.. LOL..Change is good in a game. From what I've read most of you all upset because now you will actully have to use some tactics in GW. I also see that some of you don't like it because now you will have to change the way you farm. Anet has done an exallent job with this new build. Both CPU's and AI's got some major needed upgrades. The CPU now seem to have some intelligence about them improvinng the game difficulty and my AI's got some common sense so they live a little bit longer. You people are just going to have to get used to the new aspects of the game. There's no way Anet is going to change it back to suite you.

Originally Posted by Charr Killer

If u say that there are other methods post them in a thread to be read by every1 who wants a new way to farm. or a new source of wealth

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

there are new farm builds.
heck, within hours of the patch some farmers were back in action. but this statement embodies the reasoning for this patch to begin with "post them in a thread to be read by every1 who wants a new way to farm." you have been deprived of your previous cookie-cutter farming build, and now that it no longer works you want to be given one without making a single contribution to the development of such a build; and you expect to be rewarded (via the loot from the farming) for this type of action? no thank you, sir.
this patch accomplishes one thing; it resets the cookie-cutter-farming-build-of-the-month and forces people to experiment on new ones.
the only PROBLEM with this is that eventually someone will post an effective build, and share it with people displaying your mentality in the game; thus perpetuating the problem.
arena net would not have had to make this patch in the first place if every farmer had to come up with a build on thier own.
why? because every single person with the above attitude would be too darn lazy, unwilling and unskilled to generate one; and thus the number of people able to farm would be miniscule.
it is only when someone decides to post a farming build (after protective bond was nerfed many people thought the same about nerfing that they think about this patch) that works that farming becomes accessable to the average player, then drops become too common, farming becomes the way of life for so many people unable to cultivate origionality, and arena-net is once again forced to make a new patch, nerfing farming even further; making the person who is actually creative at heart actually work harder.
i say this to you arena-net;
good job with this patch; but please reverse it if and only if certain players can stop riding the coattails of innovation to in-game success.

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

there are new farm builds.
heck, within hours of the patch some farmers were back in action. but this statement embodies the reasoning for this patch to begin with "post them in a thread to be read by every1 who wants a new way to farm." you have been deprived of your previous cookie-cutter farming build, and now that it no longer works you want to be given one without making a single contribution to the development of such a build; and you expect to be rewarded (via the loot from the farming) for this type of action? no thank you, sir.
this patch accomplishes one thing; it resets the cookie-cutter-farming-build-of-the-month and forces people to experiment on new ones.
the only PROBLEM with this is that eventually someone will post an effective build, and share it with people displaying your mentality in the game; thus perpetuating the problem.
arena net would not have had to make this patch in the first place if every farmer had to come up with a build on thier own.
why? because every single person with the above attitude would be too darn lazy, unwilling and unskilled to generate one; and thus the number of people able to farm would be miniscule.
it is only when someone decides to post a farming build (after protective bond was nerfed many people thought the same about nerfing that they think about this patch) that works that farming becomes accessable to the average player, then drops become too common, farming becomes the way of life for so many people unable to cultivate origionality, and arena-net is once again forced to make a new patch, nerfing farming even further; making the person who is actually creative at heart actually work harder.
i say this to you arena-net;
good job with this patch; but please reverse it if and only if certain players can stop riding the coattails of innovation to in-game success.

Originally Posted by entropy

Simply point of fact is if why use something less efficient especially as your farming build. So you can be original? Really with the limited amount of skills in this game yes limited most builds with a certain char class are going to be pretty similar.

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i have no problem with the scenario that 1 million people are using the same farming build...as long as each of those 1 million people came up with it themselves.
there are as of now quite a few farmign builds that work and importantly, not all fo them are mo/w or w/mo, etc; they are innovative, creative and origional; but just like with the last mo/w solo build, as soon as one acheives optimum efficiency someone is bound to post it, and then it becomes the universal stamp that everyone uses in which to farm.

heck, i wouldnt even have a problem is everyone used the same build if people said "hey, this is what im using, do you have any suggestions on how i could make it more efficient?" because that shows a thought process and modicum of effort.
its the fact that so many people want all the benifit with non of the effort that i find annoying. people think its unfair that farming was nerfed? well i think its unfair that you stole someone elses build.
to those of you who make your own builds, i commend you, please continue exploring the fronteers of guild-wars innovation; to those of you who cant stand up without someone showing you how, simply put some effort forth, and not only will you eventually find a solution to your woes, you will have had more fun and a greater sense of fulfilment in having accomplished the task of your own merrit.
Akhilleus, out.



oh, so you developed the skillpoints, skill-layout, equipment, method and location for the farming build you used, ALL BY YOURSELF?
if you did, you should have no problem repeating this.



you cannot use this argument without justifying thier ability to both allow AND nerf such builds.

Originally Posted by Silvertear

Well,

In regards to the the AI high tailing it out of the area during AOE effects - that doesn't make the skill completely useless. I've noticed many times with my W/N that about 4 or 5 enemies will hack away and get blasted by Mark of Pain when I chop at one of them. Usually MoP doesn't exactly kill every single little guy in that mob - they usually begin running when their health hits 50%, but needless to say it disrupts their attack, and now they're weaker. If I get lucky every once in awhile the AI will continue their attacks even while MoP is kicking their asses and I'll kill most of them with just MoP alone.

I agree that the patch is probably a bit over the top in regards to AI running, and I've cursed many of times at running enemies - it annoys the piss out of me, but it only inspires me to make my char not rely on AOE effects all the time.

Originally Posted by Scaper

BY WE I mean the GW community is it so WRONG TO SHARE!? WHy? Cause point 3.(Which you did not mention) MOST OTHER BUILDS SUCK THATS WHY!

Some BUILDS ARE JUST GOOD simple as THAT! THE REASON why its allowed is because ITS THE WAY THEY MADE IT! and WE DISCOVERED IT! WHAT GIVES THEM THE RIGHT TO NERF HUH? Why is that? Cause they say it helps or some junk? WHy should I have to justify them NERFING IT? I NEVER SAID I justify them nerfing your just saying I SHOULD JUSTIFY THE NEFRING! THAT IS WHAT YOU SAY NOT ME! YOU LIKE NERFING NOT ME! WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO JUSTIFYING NERFING!?

THIS NEW PATCH SUCKS BOTTEMLINE! read in my previous post!

Sincerly,Scaper

Originally Posted by Scaper

BY WE I mean the GW community is it so WRONG TO SHARE!? WHy? Cause point 3.(Which you did not mention) MOST OTHER BUILDS SUCK THATS WHY!

Originally Posted by kareel

OOOkay. You know, I've posted more here in the past twenty-four hours than I have in the past two months. Go figure. Anyways, since you're such a... vocal person, I feel I'll take this moment to attempt to make myself heard amidst the boldtype and allcaps. (Capslock. Cruise control for COOL!)

1) Certain builds are good, yes. They're very good, but it doesn't have to do with the build itself, necessarily, and there are many GOOD builds. In fact, you could pick me any two professions, and I could make a good build out of 'em. Welcome to GuildWars. That's what the game's about.

There are several EXCELLENT builds. Those builds usually are good builds, tweaked and played well by players with skill.

There are several more BROKEN builds. (See: Minion-blood-other necros with Dark Bond, no points in death magic, and a single corpse skill to bring a minion up. 65 seconds of free -75% damage that you can use to blast the living heck out of anything you lay eyes on. Almost unkillable in the right situations.) These builds are excellent, powerful, and damn-near indestructable for the most part. Why? Because they're based on skills that weren't balanced properly, skills that didn't work the way they were intended, and/or skills that were downright bugged. I'm not gonna include the invincimonk smiter build here, because honestly, it's both still perfectly viable, and very much killable. Just gotta use some common sense about it now.

Now.. in the first cases, yes. ArenaNet made those builds strong in that it made the skills themselves. In the last case, it did the same, but it did it unwittingly. When there's a mistake made, you fix it. The fact that it's a mistake that benefits YOU doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. Believe me, you'd be screaming awful loud if there was a bug that made ataxes take 0 damage from all sources.

2) The new patch doesn't suck. It's poorly implemented, and needs tweaking, leastwise in my opinion. If I had MY way, the monsters would be a great deal smarter than they are right now. I enjoy a challenge. I don't want the enemies to line up and die for me, I want to have to put some thought and strategy into the battle. If I wanted to repeat the same action over and over again, I'd go play Statbuilder. (Or World of Warcraft. Hur Hur. )

The fact is, from what I gather, that you want to cheat. A lot of the players want to cheat. They want an unfair advantage, and they want the dice loaded in their favor, and THAT, my friends, is that. No amount of ALLCAPS or boldface (or even BOLDFACE ALLCAPS) will change that. People don't want a fair fight, obviously, and THAT is the real issue here. I'd support it if it were a matter of bugginess, but I KNOW ArenaNet will fix that. They've been good for it up until now, that's for sure.

Now if you don't mind me, I believe I have some Grasping Darknesses to attend to.

~ KDS

Originally Posted by Scaper

STOP SAYING THEIR ARE OTHER GOOD BUILDS WHEN YOU CANNOT NAME ANY! Iv'e said this TIME AND TIME AGAIN! read my previous post!

Originally Posted by Scaper

STOP SAYING THEIR ARE OTHER GOOD BUILDS WHEN YOU CANNOT NAME ANY! Iv'e said this TIME AND TIME AGAIN! read my previous post! THIS GOES DOUBLE FOR YOU AkHilleus and others who MAKE THIS SAME CLAIM!

And once again read MY LAST POST BEFORE THIS ONE YES! IS IT SO WRONG TO SHARE INFOMATION! WOW I did not know people could all have the same buidls IS THIS SO BAD!?cause apperently to all you hippcrits infomation shard is bad! What do you work for the F.B.I. or C.I.A. or something( THIS IS NOT FLAMING THIS IS FACT!) Cause the F.B.I. and C.I.A. don't seem to have their infomation sharing properly figured out either. And look how well they operate!

If you want to know this build really did to the monsters than read my last post! IT TURNED THEM INTO SPINNELESS EVIL MOSTERS! Which makes NO SENSE!

Sincerly, Scaper

Originally Posted by gamehater3

What This Patch Is Not Good And It Ruined Smiters And Spell Casters What Is The Sense Of The Patch. Making A Smiter Is Not Cheating In The Game Otherwise You Couldn't Do It. All The People Who Complain About Smiters Get Off Of Your Butt And Make One. What Caused The Ai Update In The Enemies Anyways Why Do That The Game Wasn't That Easy To Go Through In The First Place. If They Want To Make It Fair Make It So The Runners Can't Run Anymore That Is What Is Killing The Game Not Smiters Or Eles. When I See A Lvl 3 In The Desert I Know He Didn't Work His Character Here He Was Ran But That Is Ok To You . That Is Why The Game Is Easy Is Because Of Runners And Now Watch How Much Easier It Is Now For Them Because Of The Update. The Enemies Only Follow U For 5 Seconds. So Now Is The Time For All The Runners To Run Like Helll.

Originally Posted by aron searle

No you are wrong, and your trying to change them to fit your view.

38% dont like it and wont accept
16% dont like it but will adapt
BUT THEY STILL DONT LIKE IT.

38+16=54%

thankyou

Originally Posted by Phades

I see over 41% that admit something is wrong with the patch, but arent going to quit over it.

Originally Posted by Shortyafter

A-Net has expressed support for runners on numerous occassions. They do not support solo farming. That is all.

By the way, the company Virgoods doesn't use runners. They use farmers.

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

and how they are not anti-farming.

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

And come on, guys, no one should be soloing the Underworld! It makes no sense at all, and we know it and we accept full responsibility for the fact that it was possible when it never should have been.

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

They were aware of the Droknars run prior to release, they just don't try and stop it.

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

I think they should make the game all about lockdown, no one is allowed to have any fun. You must now play every quest, and mission in order to progress, and you cannot leave an area till you have purchased everything the merchant has to offer.

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

Next time, quote me correctly.

Gaile was clearly talking about the Underworld, not; Riverside, Augry Rock, Kryta, Talas Chute....

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Nothing illogical about a level 20 monk soloing 20 level 22 or 24 creatures at once?

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

Anything logical about creating a build based on EoE and a team commiting suicide to win games in Tombs?

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Ok, so ANet doesn't want you farming Underworld, but they want you farming the entire desert?