Poll on the 10/10 and 10/11 Update

I think what Anet is doing is just to help out the newer players, the proverbial poor and lowly ones to like the game and stay with it, playing in whatever manner they would like to without having to be a W/mo, a Prot/Heal monk or Fire Ele.

If more people like the free play of the game they wouln't leave it. Alot of people leave MMORPGs becuase of the way people in them force them to play.

I don't think there is some grand conspiracy here to stop you from running your Ebay franchize, but rather to halt the socialist, black and white gamers who say "play this way or leave the game"

Really that's what the whole Nuker, Tanker, Healer build is.
It excludes the following:
Smiting monks
Curse Necros
Blood Necros (Non BiP or Well of Power)
Death Necros
Trappers
Beast Masters
Archers
Domination Mesmers
Illusion Mesmers
Inspiration Mesmers
Fastcast Mesmers
Air Eles
Earth Eles
Water Eles
Non-E/me fire eles
Energy Storage eles (E/mo healer, ect)
Variants thereof.

My main character right now is a Blood Necro. Yep, no BiP, no WoP. My friend's main character is [GHASP!!11] a E/W Sword-Fire-Earth ele. In the Tank, Healer, Nuker combo we couldn't possibly dream of getting a group in ToA.

Perhaps we didn't take henchies through the entire game. Then what? We would still be in Gates of Kryta screaming "LFG FOR MISSION + BONUS," two weeks after getting there.

What's the big deal? Get out of the mundane. Stop forcing players to play the popular way.

You don't have to take everyone no matter what. Just organize your group and work out the kinks. I know that IWAY and what I'll now call THN (Tank, Healer, Nuker) are there to stop people from actually using their brains. All IWAY warriors have to do is get Evisacre, Warriors Cunning, a pet, a spirit/sprint/rev, and a res signet. Everyone who knows how to play it has the same build. All anyone has to do is say "Spirit Check!" and they get the 4 things the Warriors need together.

What about THN? It's pretty much the same. Infact, less communication is used. Nobody needs anything in perticular that might conflict with someone else's build. So THN is much cheaper than IWAY and yeilds better PvE rewards than IWAY does.

Do we need THN? It's just oppression! Fight the power, brother!

oh i know all about not being in groups, here my characters
warrior/necro<--not a monk secondary, he will die, dont invite him
necro/ranger<--you got well of power, if not, you cant come
necro/warrior<--why does that necro got a sword, omfg lets go back to town
monk/necro<--i actually wanted to get to fissure, monk is the only way, but at least when they anger me they die

The dev team isn't swinging a nerf bat. I can understand that you're upset (if you're a standard fire elem) and you have to readjust your game play. But if you play a ranger you would know that rangers recently had a skill balance adjustment. It used to be that rangers could spam interupts like mad, and now they can't. No big deal you say? Well to rangers it was. I didn't really like that change, but I also see the necessity of it. Ranger interupts were out of control. I still use interupts (now I actually have to pay attention and time them) and I also have adjusted my ranger build in other ways. It made me think and I believe I have stronger builds because of it.

When grouped I normally smite/heal with my monk. This update will change how my AoE spells affect the hunt, but I'm getting new ideas how I can use the AI to my advantage.

I hate this update hope it will be changed back to the way it was.
Cause the day before the update i bought another account in the stores for a invinci monk...thats not what im gonna get if it stays this way plz change it back

Invincimonks still work. Fire still works. AoE still works. Patience is required.

But the question remains - Why should ppl. be FORCED to change the builds they enjoy playing? This is a GAME. Its for FUN. If I enjoy playing a certain build, why should I be FORCED to change it?

If its diversity thats needed, why not give ppl. incentives to try other classes and builds? Not FORCE them into it. Do something to make the other skill sets (not to mention the less "understood" classes like mes) more attractive to the average player. Were such an approach taken, more ppl. would naturally gravitate toward them and a more diverse player base would emerge without alienating anyone.

In general, additions to gameplay options will be considered positive by the community at large. Subtractions (Nerfing) will be considered bad. You can't expand the scope and possibilities of the game by decreasing player options, but you can by increasing them...and the odds of the majority being happy will be much greater.

Why should rangers and mesmers be FORCED to wait forever to get in a decent group? They shouldn't. This expanded options. Sure, not as many people want echo nukers now. But, they should be more open to other classes now since fire "sucks" (it doesn't).

I agree there are some things that have to be changed in Guildwars ®. But Arenanet changes the wrong things, why dont they change the 'market'. At Lions Arch many people are shouting at the same time, but why not make an update so people can set up markets and sell their stuffs.

This update should be deleted and everything changed back, the allready nerfed enough things......

it seems to be that war between arenanet and farmers still goin strong.
with recent patch, in normal pve elementalist AoE spells become quite useless
they cost much, recharge long and you cant even do dmg with them anymore,

I counted many times that for firestorm example takes 2-3 hits before mobs move away, no matter if casters or melee mobs! and im not furnace farmer, just playin missions.

Meteorstorm is even more ridiculous, one hit with exhaustion, 25 energy cost and recharge long makes it last choise to get...if this patch stays as it is
I have to reconsider deleting my Elementalist

voted 2nd choise anyway...

single-hit nuking works just fine now since the mobs don't run at all after being pelted with a fireball, hell I already made a single-hit nuking build

as trinity said "But the question remains - Why should ppl. be FORCED to change the builds they enjoy playing? This is a GAME. Its for FUN. If I enjoy playing a certain build, why should I be FORCED to change it?"

I have to agree...just for stupid war between arenanet and farmers (my opinion)

Once again this will probably be erased because lets just say Anonmyous people want to silence me! All my previous post have been erased so I can only assume that this is conspiracy to silenced the OPPOSING partys! So you might have about 5 mins to view this, I'm betting!
Savio: Do you see anyone else trying to insult people by making political references and getting their posts deleted? No? Then learn something from them and stop it. As amusing as it is to delete all of your posts, seriously, just stop it. I WAS MERELY STATING A POLITICAL FACT DON"T BLAME ME THAT THE FACTS ARE TRUE. FINE ILL JUST LET THE PEOPLE FIND OUT FOR THEMSELVES!

Anyway here is my rebutale to that. First of all what the heck is,"FREE PLAY"? Is this some kind of term for, cool we all died was that FUN Or what? So going around dying all the time may be fun for some, BUT NOT for the Majority of GW players I can almost grantee that!

And no one says PLAY THIS WAY OR LEAVE! All they are trying to do is help people fix their builds. WHICH is my main point. Some Builds are just better than others that is the way the skills were made. DO NOT BLAME THE PLAYERS WHO CAN GET THEIR BUILD SMART EFFECTIVE! JUST BECAUSE YOU MAKE ONE BUILD DOES NOT MEAN U HAVE TO STICK WITH IT! this is what most think who are jealous of people who cannot adjust to a SMART build. Builds that you say are not MUNDANE they are smart and effective. You think people have not thought about switch to see if another build was effective? Well alot of people have tested other builds and they are simple put, terrible builds! Because the skills that are in those builds are not very effective in about ANY combo! Just ask around!

However, some builds are not all War/Mo, Mo, and Nukes! This is the most effective team when it came to killing large mobs! Other Builds are effective but only some times. Some Examples:

1. Smiting Monks Build in HOH I'm sure some have heard of this

2.Trapper builds in UW farming are very effective!

Wells thats some of the few that I know. And why should people have to switch their builds if they work huh? THE QUESTION you need to ask is WHY arent the excluded builds switching over? My guess to lazy or just not educated in the way to get them. It is not that hard to switch to an effective build so STOP complaining about its not fair that these builds are so good.

For example, I use to be a E/Mo and farm in FA farms. I could not get many jobs because i was not a Echo Nuke. So, all I did was go to Desert switch to Ele/mes and bought 1 skill the Arcane Echo. From their on it was simple as pie to get a job as FA farmer! In fact because the switch I gained more than 200k in less than 5 weeks!

BESIDES, one wrong does not make a right. In your example the good builds exclude you apparently. SO what now? Your going to justicify making the good builds junk, and now most builds are like the excluded builds? NO, if you have a problem with your build don't blame GW PLAYERS! Put your blame in the uneffectiveness of the skills that make the builds so lousy!

By the way IWAY does not work so good! Because they nerfed that too! IWAY used to be pratically unlimited to all dead bodies, but they changed it to less, I think the number was like 2 dead animals max for IWAY. So that build is pretty uneffective now.

If you think THN Tank Healer Nuker build is so bad because its so effective quit complaining cause that is a rediculus reason. And saying we dont have to use our brains for THK is complete nonsense. The reason why we have THN is becasue we have brains, and why you guys don't use these, well you tell me. These builds use to work good and yours did not simple as that. YES, we do need THN builds. What yoru asking is completely UNREASONABLE. "Fight the Power", in a way your right if you mean fight the power of reasonable logic, then yes, your doing a great job.

For example, why don't you go to the cops and say," hey why you use guns? Why not fight crime with broom stick, maybe its more effective?"

Who you going to blame when the cop dies because he was fighting crime with broom stick? The cop or the broom sitck? I would personally blame the guy who gave him the broom stick, BUT! You blame the broom stick Not the cop because he not prepared. Therefore, dont blame the builds, blame the lousy skills that they are accompanied by.

So in a nut shell, if we were a Police Precint, Anet just took away our guns and replaced them with broom sticks. Man this will be fun won't it?

Sincerly, Scaper

I just feel I have to comment on the above quote. Necros and Rangers are superb, interesting, and very useful character classes. As are Mesmers. It should be easy enough even before this patch to get into a group as necro or ranger. You just have to find the right group, that is, you just have to locate the right kind of players. I for one would NOT want to get into a group of PUGS as ranger or necro if that group of players wouldn't want these classes in their groups before the patch, because I just would not want to play in a group that thinks that way.

Same.

lol..that was my point.

I understand the value of a good mesmer or ranger and sympathize with the frustration they feel when trying to get in groups. Personally, I have never discriminated against any class. One of my usual passtimes ingame is helping low lvls with missions and quests, and more often than not its these classes that I help, just because they have such difficulty getting in groups even at these levels.

All I'm saying is that I believe its possible to correct conditions for rangers, mesmers, or any other 'misunderstood' or overlooked class without harming (or giving the perception of harm to) another class. To use such tactics in an attempt to level the playing field is just a cheap quick fix that will solve nothing in the long term.

Oh and I don't play echo nuker, and have felt similar discrimination in places like SF because my E/Mo isn't considered worth as much to the team as an echo is.

I think the root problem with the issue of teams is not the classes, but the mindset and quality of the ppl. who play them. Every class has value, and a role to fill in teamplay. Trying to make ppl. understand this is the real problem here, and its a hard one to fix.

Um, how should I put this, just try to read my prevous post called DON"T BLAME THE GOOD GW PLAYERS FOr your TERRIBE BUILDS! please
And their is an direct example of that E/Mo build in SF form me just read my previous post please!

Thank You, Scaper

I'd have to agree that you're not finding the right group if you're not being invited or, worse yet, booted. I enjoy playing with all types and have only booted someone in order to get a monk. Hey, I want to be healed, and a group with no healer at all is a dead group.

Enh, don't mind me: I'm still ticked off over the update and some people's intolerance for other playing styles. Lots of kiddies think that pve sucks and is gay, yet that's where they hang out. :/

The problem with this update is that it is a "percieved" nerf. It's pretty dang balanced now.

Just so you'll understand, Scaper-

I'M NOT BLAMING ANY GOOD GW PLAYERS FOR ANYTHING!

IN NINE CASES OUT OF TEN IT'S THE BAD, NARROW-MINDED PLAYERS WHO THINK THEY'RE GOOD THAT ARE THE PROBLEM!
please
And I did read your post. I have had a level 20 E/Me and deleted her because I didn't ENJOY playing Echo as much as I did E/Mo. I like being able to self heal and res if necessary, and have no desire to change my build just to satisfy someone elses short sighted conception of what works and what doesn't. Just exactly who are you to decide if my build is terrible or not? Has worked excellently for me since public release.

Thank you, Trin

Actually, You are blaming other players that have better builds. In my biggest post I explain this, but let me repeat it again. Why are you asking the good builds to switch over? The Question you need to ask is WHy the uneffective builds not Switching over? It has nothing to do with preferrenes its merely effectiveness.

For example, when FA farming, before they nerfed nukes, I was Ele/Mo. It took me about an average of 3 mins or more to kill one enemy. When I became and echo nuke it took about, lets see less than 1 min. So when I say I'm good its at killing, Its a fact not an opinion. The same with the builds its just a Fact: Some builds are just more effective and some are not! Simple as that!

If you don't want to change your build to be more effective for such little money thats find. But that is exactly why no one takes you on FA Farms, cause your un effective compared to echo nuke. Sure It does work in some instances, maybe if your going solo. HENCE, your actually contridicting yourself. Your saying basically this is to help team work, but its not is it? When your Echo Nuke your part of a team, and when you Ele/mo mainly being solo, so how this help the team effect?

Sincerly, Scaper

Well once again im just going to say this New AI update and AoE running away junk is the worst idea I have ever heard of. I'm not going to say anything because I already said it. READ MY LAST POST, "DON'T BLAME THE GOOD GW PLAYERS CAUSE YOUR BUILDS ARE TERRIBLE!" or something like that. Well Reply to me please I want your intelligent opinions please! Good night Tryia, maybe when we wake up this nightmare patch will be replaced. lol.

Sincerly, Scaper

If this has already been pointed out, my apologies. (I've read enough the last two days, I'm not going through these pages as well.)

I do believe you may want to double check that information. The second petition listed as "for" the update, is actually against it.

Uh, scaper, other builds can do the same thing. It's not my fault you've never played or seen any of them.

I don't think it is logical that enemies would move out of the way of area weapons. If there are meteors where they are standing they would assume there are meteors everywhere else.

My .2

Even if only 20 or 15% of people are absouloutly not happy with this update, is it healthy to pizz of 20 or 15% of your game population. (Its 37% as i type this)

?

When you mean same thing do you mean FA farming? By the way if you want to know what the peps are talk about, press the Quote Button next to Reply to make my message at top, so people know what your talk about. IF your talk about FA farm, and your saying that some other build can kill a mob in less than 1 min let me know. Cause most FA Farm groups 2 echos 1 prot 1 heal 1 tank, work very very well in FA cave! That is BEFORE they NERFED it with the UPDATE of AoE running junk Stop saying some other builds can when you can not name any them! Why I not heard of any of them? Cause they don't work that is why!

Sincerly, Scaper

Actually you got it backwards, only less than 20 percent of people or 15 percent actually LIKE this update. The first 3 categories basically say They DID NOT LIKE IT. If you read real carefully the first 3 say they did not like some part of it. Which means the first 3 categories mean those people were either very or moderaltey dissatisfied. Hence, If you add up the percentages its more like over 80 percent don't like something about the update! Therefore, HELL NO this update is NOT POPULAR at ALL!

Sincerly, Scaper

Scaper, do those builds work now, in that amount of time? Nope. So your posts are as relevant as ones talking about Thunderclap when it was bugged. It doesn't work that way anymore, so it doesn't really matter.

Oh, and you're wrong about the percentage thing too.

I don't like this update, but am willing to accept it with some adjustment.
I think the idea behind the patch is good, but was implemented poorly.
This update is great, I like it the way it is.

If you'd read those, they say that they WANT THE UPDATE to stay in some form.

Corrected; I blame Lasareth.

I'm not blaming anyone for the builds they choose to play, and have not asked anyone to change their builds in any way. My whole point has been that ppl. should be allowed to play whatever build they wish. How did you manage to miss that?

As for your Mastery of Echo Nuking...good for you. Enjoy your random PUGS.

Personally, I prefer to do team activities with the various friends on my list, or with my fellow guildies...you know guildies? As in GW.

So you keep going with your PUGs and I'll just keep playing with my friends, and all will be well.

Random thought...

Maybe the answer to fixing class discrimination in GUILD WARS is to eliminate PUGs all together. Make every PvE mission and quest Guild based. hmmm...

Sincerely, Trin

My point was even if it was only 20%, which its not.

Is that healthy?

I fixed that first problem with the relevants by adding BEFORE the Nerf. And percentages I am RIGHT! I said the first 3 percentages, NOT THE LAST 3! the first 3 say that they DO NOT LIKE something about this change the real sense!

Bascially its saying that like this.

Car Dealer:" Do you want buy this car? "

Buyer: "Yeah its good but, it has no radio system. "

Car Dealer: "SO is that a yes or no?"

Buyer:" That would be a NO!"

So add those and that is percentage of people who Dislike the Upate! Please read more carefully before making rude comments or ill report you for insulting me.

Sincerly, Scaper

Ahem. Disagree all you want, but no need to get into a flame war over what the poll says. That goes for all of you.

All the skills have a Certain effectiveness in the game. Like I said Some builds just WORK BETTER THAN OTHERS!Its a FACT Why you say? Well its becuase the skills for some builds suck like hell! I tryed to switch over to Air Spiker (ELE AIR build), Bottom line it SUCKED! I did pratically no dam, and ran out of energy before your can say I GOT NERFED!

Look its just a fact some skills in the game REALLy REALLy suck for some builds ask people who tried them! Like ME! ANd once again im not sure you even read my first LONG post! Making skills like ALL AOE more suckky, is not going to help the problem of making BETTER BUILDS!

Sincerly, Scaper

YES it is UNhealth cause this is game of intelligence. We intelligence people understand that they basically Anet screwed all the AoE spells and skills etc. TO HELL! As I understand it that would make me alittle anger yes. Is it not healthy to play this game at all well, so why they making it more difficult for us? And more time consuming? IS that health?

Sincerly, Scaper

It's not supposed to help you make better builds... it's supposed to make it so fire isn't the only choice.

Scaper, it would help if you didnt put everything in bold with exclamation points and call your opinions facts. I'm not calling mine facts.

I filled out two complaints to NCsoft about new AOE update... the update turned the best game ever to ridiculous pile of crap... i dont see team work in my teams anymore everybdoy runs around try to kill seperate monster... Monsters act like total idiots running around like chicken with heads cut off every single time they take damage... I spend over 700 hours playing that game and trying to perfect my characters... NCsoft with one swift move cut off everything ive been working on... why wouold anyone do something like that to us??? why would they? if they wont reverse that update i can probably play for only like two more days... and then i will have to quit cause i basically hate that game right now... Please NCsoft give us our game back !!! I will pay monthly subscribtion I will buy 2nd account I will buy 2nd chapter!! just bring all back to normal... let me play!

YOU ACTUALLY TRIED THE OTHER SOMETHING THAT IS NOT FIRE BUILDS>? oh say Air Spiker or Water Ele or Earth junk? THEY REALY REALLy arent that effective. I mean sure can be combined sometimes, but come on why should we have change becasue fire is good. And that is A FACT some builds builds are more effective AT WHAT THEY do! ASK ANYONE WHO has tried to change to something else!

YOU NEED TO PLEASE READ my reasoning in my first POST the LONG ONE! I HATE repeating myself like this again and againg AND AGAIN ! same goes for others who read this!

By the way AoE spells are NOT JUST FOR FIRE alot of them in EARTh ele, some water, and some air. That is why sometimes I run around saying HOMELESS ELE LOOK FOR HOME! Cause if we cannnot utilize AoE spells effectively, alot of Elemental effectiveness goes TO HELL THANKS TO ANET!

Sincerly, Scaper

You picked the wrong person to call earth crap to, man. I've been using earth for the entire game. It's not junk. Here's something for you to try: Enervating charge, Stoning, aftershock. That's a knockdown, weakness, AND a ton of damage, all for no exhaustion. Throw in Ether Prodigy, and you can keep doing that FOREVER. Have you ever tried taking a ward against melee? Keeps monks alive very well. I've never found a better skill to spike monk bosses with than Obsidian Flame. Armor of earth and Kinetic Armor are amazing. I have over one thousand hours in game, and over 950 of them were spent on an earth ele. It's not junk.

Unien Aule

I'm not complaining as a R/E. I somethimes stay standing in a fire storm to charge up my Energy lvl with Strom Chaser (+4 energy add with elemental dmg) activated and ofcourse troll unguent (+8 HP gen) for keeping health up and I'm neither complaining as a R/E cause the damn monsters cant run away from raining arrows with a stance (RtW), prep (KA) and enchanting (CF or CL) loaded on them. Just to bad that KA gets disabled when using Barrage .

My job as an interrupter comes in well now lately (Which was during GvG and PvP)

Anyhow, a E isnt always meanth to nuke!

The only thing that A'net has to do is inprooving the patch with better solutions for the monsters and maybe that the monster are located elsewhere then the fixed spawns!