Is anyone else worried about the new salvage options?

From Dictionary.com

profiteering:


One who makes excessive profits on goods in short supply.


intr.v. prof·it·eered, prof·it·eer·ing, prof·it·eers

To make excessive profits on goods in short supply.








In real life it's a crime, in Guild Wars virtual economy it's perhaps something that the developers would like to reduce as well. I'm sorry if you'll no longer be able to pay for 1000 keys off selling one item you got from a chest.

That's fun.

I can open 1000 chests, and not have the staff, whereas someone in the world will find it with just 1 key.

You cannot tell someone who wants to buy a car to play the lottery, win and buy it. Maybe you could tell him to check different models, decide, find the best price on market, negotiate the discount and so on.

And anyway, you don't accept my offer because you think that your staff is unique, and if I want it I must accept your conditions.
With a more competitive market, I'll be able to look around, negotiate, find the best deal, buy all components from different sellers for the best price.

It's liberism against monopoly and incumbent position.

Sweet!

I have been called an Elitist and now I am profiteering!

This update would only make ME more money. It will KILL the middle class players in GW yet somehow you seem to think I am after or I am trying to keep personal wealth. I invite you people that like posting here more than playing the game to log on and take a look at what is being bought in trade towns. Several people are actively spamming for junk skin 15>50 and low req junk mod rare skin weapons. This update would/will be exploited to death. The casual gamer will be the one that pays the price long term.

Uh a crime? So rare items in the real world are only rare because of profiteering?

Is +1 Death Mod vanity?

Is +1 Smiting vanity?

How much are those mods worth (I have no idea, myself, I've never seen one).

You keep using the +30 HP mod like it's the only one. I only used it as an example because it disproves your basic point: that somehow +1 HP = FoW armor.

To put it another way: If FoW armor offered bonuses not available in other armors, do you think people would feel the same about them? I would bet not.

Anet made all armors "equal" for a reason (with the exception of Collector's). Now, they are expanding it to Mods. 'Bout time.

(BTW, I hope they do have a NPC Mod Trader. I don't want to have to deal with human traders to get my perfect mods...)

How? Most casual players aren't banking on selling perfect weapons to make their fortunes, trust me. (At least, I'm not). I think once you start spending most of your time farming weapons, you cease to be a "casual player." But, again, that's just my opinion.

how much money you got? imao anyone with less than 40 million isn't an elitist:L 1 to 10 million= average players. 10 to 20 million=lower middle class. 20 to 30 million=middle class 40+=elitist
I am not an elitist myself since i am only a lower-middle class dammit i have to worry now

I am certain that the "average" players on this thread would probably dispute this amount since they are screaming for cheap items

Mord,

All those +1s are available on greens. Smite is like 10k if you can even find someone to buy it. And yes those collector weapons and greens keep the playing field level for the casual gamer. You want vanity but don't want to work for it.

I'm just making a valid point here, you state that this will benefit you and hurt others in the long run. Well, I will have to agree to disagree with your point of view and move on. I'm not going to get into some pointless internet arguement here.

Diamonds are rare, because of the nature of their creation. You argue that something that is almost the same and not as rare is just as valid, would you want your wife wearing a ring with a chunk of carbon on it, because it's almost the same thing just not as rare?

Elitist is an attitude, not an amount of virtual money you have on your video game.

1 to 10 million for your average player eh? That's an interesting figure, I myself have 10k in storage, I spent 40k on cap signets this last weekend, and when I get 10-40k in storage I feel comfortable and don't see the need to aquire more wealth at that point unless I'm after something specific. I guess in your opinion I'm a newbie then? 3000 hours and still a newbie, because I don't care about having 1mil+ gold... Who knew?

They are. One removes gold from the game and was created by ANet to do so. One shifts gold from one person to another person and inflates the resale value of similar items artificially.

They're very different.

No, the 1hp is a very real advantage. 1hp worth of an advantage is still a very very very very small advantage, but it's still a real, quantifiable advantage -- a very expensive advantage which has had its price tag artificially inflated by the player-to-player "economy".

Yet gold sinks are only needed to control inflation.

If the inflating items are made so common that it totally drops in price, then the gold sinks don't need to exist anymore.

And still no one has explained why the new salvaging system that makes weapon building more flexible is bad, other than the wild theory that the economy will bomb out.

Let's see, a new system that will benefit everyone versus a handful of people who are worried that they'll lose their future monopoly profits. Hmmm tough choice....

Sigh. Mods are NOT vanity, no matter how many times you say it.

Anyway, it's not just what I want, it's Anets vision of the game.

Skill > Grind. Remember?

"Gold sinks" aren't really needed at all, because most everyone agrees, you don't need lots of gold to play Guild Wars (although it will help to get perfect Mods and Runes).

You "want" gold to buy 15k armor (vanity), FoW armor (vanity), and overpriced mods (NOT vanity) and skins (vanity).

Which of these things is not like the other?

Again, for those new to the argument, I don't want to see cheap Crystallines! Keep 'em at a million for the playboy/girl collectors out there.

I just want to see every mod available at a reasonable price, preferably through an NPC Mod Trader.

But, in the end, it doesn't really matter what I want, all that matters is what Anet does....

Do you even know what gold sinks are? Gold sinks take gold out of the player economy. Selling one high priced item to another person is NOT a gold sink. The gold is STILL in the economy.

FOW armor, salvage kits, runes, etc etc, anything you buy from an NPC merchant IS a gold sink.

Player to player sold items that drop in price dont affect anything more than if the prices remain ridiculously high. Fact is, that the gold still is in circulation in the player economy either way.

Now stop ranting about stuff that you dont know about.

It's true, mods aren't vanity. "I'm using a hale zodiac staff of fortitude"

it doesn't call any of the items stats, that could be a 9-16 staff with a +10 hale and +15 fortitude. unless you open trade and show someone the weapon, the difference between +30 and +29 isn't much, even if you call your hp if you have a major vigor and a 29 staff wrap, you're still only 10 points under someone with superior vigor and a +30 wrap

if ANet really wants to make their game fits to their vision, they need to stop tempting all the hardcore players by adding gold sinks after gold sinks.

If skill > grind, fow armor should be availible cheaply, even if its not needed at all, just to give more options to players.

Minipet should be cheap and be able to be chosen so that players can play with what they find is a "cool" pet without having to grind for it(and minipet is player controlled economy as well, how come no one is complaining about them, when they are the exact same as weapon skins).

If they keep all the gold sinks people will just think "well, at this outrageous price it must mean that the current rare item pricing is just about right".

Exactly my point, they should remove the fow armor, salvage kits, runes, etc etc. gold sinks since they are going to make rare weapon skins cheap anyways, theres no need to have those gold sinks there to stop the inflation.

???

How did you come up with that conclusion?

How does FoW armor or minipets effect Game Balance at all?

You think 75,000 gold for 15k armor is outrageous? How about 1 million gold for a perfect crystalline?

(fixed stupid math mistake)

FOW armor doesn't add to your game skill, it just shows you took the time to PVE and farm and get the gear you want to obtain the look you're after.

I can take someone in 1v1 who has FOW, when I've got 1.5k armor and collectors gear, or with a PVP only character. Why? A number of reasons (mostly because 1v1 isn't what the game is about, Guild Wars is a fancy version of paper rock scissors, there is a counter to every build and it's team work and skill that determine wins in PVP.

A guild with all PVP only characters could slaughter a guild in FOW armor and all fancy high end weapons, if they are better players. Money sinks are there for people who want to have something to grind for, I don't think that your argument to remove FOW etc is valid.

and HOW does weapon skins affect game balance at all?? People don't NEED to have them, they have collector's and greens.

Hey, here's a thought, read my posts!

I don't care about skins. I want Inscriptions for cheap mods.

(and, no, not all mods are available on Collector's or Greens - not that I count Greens anyway, cause they're not "cheap").

"I just want to see every mod available at a reasonable price, preferably through an NPC Mod Trader." - Mordakai

Mord,

Your argument is flawed at best (being kind)

1% on ANY mod is not enough of an advantage to merit the wrecking of the economy. Any mod 1% less than PERFECT is DIRT CHEAP ALREADY. You keep arguing the NEED for that extra 1% when it is only vanity. The VERY RARE times anyone is down to 1hp and lives without a monk saving his/her butt is reaching to the extent of making this laughable.

Ok, but I want FoW armor, its pricing is ridiculous for my taste. And I don't really like the 1.5k armor. For a game that is Skill>Grind, why are there these types of grind elements? My conclusion is that ANet wants to satisfy the hardcore player as well without giving them any gameplay balance advantage.

Now, look at weapon skins, let's see.

Cheaper version availible, check. (collector's/crafter item has every inherent mod availible, except the weird ones like the blanket bow and Hod Axe mods.

Does rare weapons give no gameplay advantages, check.

Seems like the exact system of the FoW armor and 1.5k armor, except one is priced far out of reach, and the other does not even come close to the amount even with the so called "inflation".

Did you read any of my posts in this thread at all? I'm guessing no. Because, if you did, you'd have read that my problem isn't 'working' to accomplish something in the game. I even suggested putting in crafters for vanity weapon skins, for god's sake.

There's a huge difference between buying FoW armor and paying exorbitant amounts of money to other players for vanity skins. Buying FoW armor helps the economy along. It removes resources from the game. Every FoW armor bought goes a little way to fighting inflation. If no resources ever left the game, there'd soon be more gold around than all existing accounts together could hold. People would put their gold in trader items, until each and everyone of them maxed out at 100k. That's why there are gold sinks: mechanisms to remove resources from the economy. Buying armor is a gold sink, buying keys or ale is a gold sink. Customizing weapons is a very subtle gold sink, removing 10 gold AND a weapon from the economy.

Paying another player gold and ectos for a weapon, that's not a gold sink.

There's nothing inherently wrong with player trading of course. There isn't even anything wrong at all with wealthy players passing ever-increasing amounts of gold around in an endless circle of self-congratulatory wankery. It just doesn't contribute to the real game, it's something those players made up themselves. That's why ANet can break it up any time they want, and only the people completely caught up in it will be hurt, and the people who care about what other people pay for their items.

The game won't be hurt, just the people who think e-wealth amounts to anything, and the people begrudging other people. These guys make up one part of the people against it. The rest of them are doomsayers who are clueless about game economics.

And by the way, aren't the doomsayers a funny lot? Half of them proclaim everything will be more expensive after these changes, and the other half insist that nothing will be worth mud anymore.

Here's my prediction:

"Things will change.

The economy will bounce back and run on another level.

The vast majority of players will shrug and play on.

The rest will find something else to bitch about."

It was mentioned, I think by Mord, that it's not a money sink when you trade that money to another player. Money sinks are to take the gold out of the economy, not to keep it floating around so that the rich get richer.

I can't find the quote quickly, but I think that should show you why your arguement is null and void.

Ok I guess, you're right.

So a compromise would be, make inscriptions availible only at a STATIC merchant, with the best mods availible for 100k and the non perfect ones less than that of course. (Considering even more useless gold sinks such as title cost 10x more I think this is reasonable).

Turn inscriptions into gold sinks would be the best solution.

While I'd love to take credit for it, it was Gli, and he has a great post right above yours!

leprekan:

I'm not going to feel bad if Anet gives me something I want. Sorry.

You already admit you'll get rich off this, so teach your friends the tricks they need to get rich too, and be happy. I really don't understand your complaints.

I don't see why you need a static merchant, a dynamic merchant would be better, or else people would just circumvent the process by selling cheap weapons outside of the merchant.

Which is what will happen if they include NPC Inscription merchants.

Ummm what? Are you being sarcastic?

First of all, gold sinks are needed no matter how low inflation is, because eventually the buildup of gold will need a gold sink.

Second, taking kits and runes and etc etc out just because you deem them useless as gold sinks is silly. Those items are not just gold sinks you know. How can you not realize that?

I'm still waiting for one of these "this shouldn't exist" guys to point me to a reasonably priced req 8-9 zodiac staff/wand for death, domination, blood, healing (divine req on this one, not matched like others), and all of them be 20/20 cast recharge matching the req (healing on the divine one).

Where's this list of available items? It's huge right. There's no need for ANET to change anything cause these are floating out there all over the place? Shoot, show me ONE even!

It's about people being able to get the skins with req/stats they want in the game. They still have to work for it, but at least it's feasible. The current system is not at all.

If you want to leave in a mad huff over people getting what they want....go. Really. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out. There's a hundred people that play the game to every one of you "protect my items" guys. People who are frustrated beyond belief at farming for these items and still not getting them after 100's of hours. This change will allow people to actually acquire what they want, and stop acting like it's the equivalent of typing /bonusitem. It's not and you know it.

It would be fantastic if a perfect crystalline cost 1 million. At that price I would say that it is truly worth it. In todays market a perfect crystalline costs no less than 10 million and THAT is complete BS no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

I'm sorry but some of you just dont seem to be reading or getting the point. This new system ISNT about giving people access to rare skins or trying to ruin to economy. Please stop using the argument that we dont need rare skins. WE KNOW THAT!

The people FOR this idea like the new system because it makes building weapons (and hopefully wands/shields/focii) a LOT easier with the MODS you need. If it ruins your day that others will have access to rare skins and that you cant profit off of that, then too bad. Deal with it.

Like I said, I realised how important gold sinks are to the game, so I proposed to make inscriptions into a gold sink.

Inscriptions trader with a set price not subject to supply and demand (just like fow armor) ftw, with the rarest mods set at 100k of course (for both buy AND SELL).

I had no idea...

kinda makes all these anti-Inscription arguments seem pretty silly.

Wow I've been gone for three days and look, 10 more pages arguing mostly the same issues.

I believe rare skins will still be expensive, probably not AS expensive, but still. And I don't need them. But any mod that gives you any advantage no matter HOW slight (1hp, 1% closer to 20% chance) is an advantage, and should be open to all players. Albeit it is through collector's items and such, but is not something easy to find on certain skins (forget about super rare here). I would like to purchase 15^50, ench, stance for reasonable amounts to put on certain weapons, simply for ease. I farm a fair amount, but to find each type of weapon with the mod I want is too much. And Phoenix Ex, 100k is WAY too expensive. Make them non-swappable and set at around the 15k mark for the perfects and it would give casual/more than casual players an attainable goal to get maxed mods for all their characters and heroes. Keep trading your 100k +xxx ecto weapons.

Good comments about gold sinks though, any economy needs them.

Here's a point about req though off-topic. I took two swords (different type but no other dmg mods, one req 9 the other 12) went to battle isles and the place where the different armor levels are. With 12 in swordsmanship I did it twice, wrote down the damage produced and found that with the req 9 sword I did 6 more dmg on a critical hit and 4 more dmg on average. I think strength was set at 10 and didn't change for either of the tests. Can someone confirm this for me or answer whether there might have been some other type of influence? Edit - If this is the case than there should be even more demand for lower req rare skin weapons rather than "crappy" req rare skins. If someones at home would you like to check on this? I wrote about 40 dmg numbers each time so I wouldn't "kill" the armor. (put first edit in wrong spot!)

AH FTW

No offense but ... there are what 10-20 perfect crystallines in 17 months. They are becoming more common courtesy of Anet lowering the bar on hoh by reducing the time limit and number of opposing teams. Why shouldn't something that rare demand the max that can be traded?

Just wow talk about hypocrites. While shopping what did I find in high end?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10054638

The guy screaming for cheap perfect crystallines is trying to buy an unconditional weapon to make the most expensive item in the game if this update goes through.

I think inscriptions are fine if:

1. Once and once ONLY, one you inscribed a weapon, its customized, and you can no longer alter the inherent mod on it at all. And cannot be resalvaged. And only ONE change of prefix/suffix allowed.
2. It changes color of weapon to brown or something.
3. The name changes to INSCRIBED XX Weapon of something.

Basically making at somewhat of a slightly better green at the cost of having no resale value, but more customizability.

What's the point of making the weapon brown and changing the name? People dont sell and buy customized weapons anyway....

I'm guessing so then people could say "yours isn't as l337 as his cause he didn't make it!" or some such nonsense. If you did find it, great, I'm sure you feel good about finding it. I know I do when I find the weapon I want, but I don't really care about others weapons. I was more happy when I got the survivor title and knew nothing about it until i could select it! (Had just started factions after 8 month break from GW) but my guildies never noticed till one day one started talking about making a new char to get it and i was like "i've got it" but he had never noticed even though we did missions and such together.

strange how you think a perfect crys shouldnt cost 10mill or what ever the seller wants as not too many exists or arent customized. Yet you are spending xxx amount of ectos on a uncndtional sword. Kind of a double standard don't you think?

Its just to stop annoying people from Ctrl Clicking the weapon name over and over even though they spent no effort on making the weapon, because all that'll do is "I'm wielding an Inscribed XX axe of defense".

Points to the crappiness inherent in these people's so called arguments. I'm leet if my weapon is gold, never mind if it's the same as someone elses, and I want to ping my weapon like a madman when I get in a group so you know I'm uber. If you have an inscription name ping, then you're a noob and I own you LOL.

That's their mentality. The sooner ANET kills it the better for all the people playing this game. And I say this as a person with a stack of greens / golds / 1.4 million in storage on toons, and 4 sets of fissure armor. I don't have to go around beating people up about it like you seem to need to. At the same time, I'm incredibly frustrated I STILL can't get weapon stats I want on skins I want. ANET is going to solve it, and I applaud them for it.

All you leet-speak-i'm-cooler-than-you-cause-i-use-gold-weapons guys can either deal with it or go play WOW.

And Phoenix Ex, you soooo just proved my point. I'm sick of these other people pinging weapons everytime you join a group. I take the opposite view...inscriptions will stop all you annoying guys when there's no "bragging" right. Use the weapon cause you like it, not to brag.

I'm guessing that you think it would be fantastic because you would be able to afford it at 1 million and can't at 10 million but thats just a guess.
So what about the people who think 1 million is a rediculous amount for someone to spend on a sword???

Expensive is completely subjective and something that seems to be vastly overlooked by alot of people here is that items are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.

Q - Did I need the req 8 +30 +10 vs slashing shadow shield to replace my req11 +30 +10 vs slashing shadow shield?
A - No
I did however pay alot more for it than I intended on paying because I wanted it not needed it

And before you start I know this is a horrible example because it is a mod that is not available on a collectors item so save yourselves the trouble
That aside the moral of this is that this economy of high end weapons is based on the people who are willing to participate in it with collectors/green items/pvp creation nobody is forced to take part in any of it.
The buying and selling of expensive items is something that some people enjoy doing.