) But it doesn't really matter anyways since I don't PvP much anymore.
Is anyone else worried about the new salvage options?
Phoenix Ex
Nerf it Anet, change it to +20%<50 
(I am so evil ) But it doesn't really matter anyways since I don't PvP much anymore.
) But it doesn't really matter anyways since I don't PvP much anymore.
DeathByAmor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
LOL. So much for "good for the game"....
(I know you'd be upset Death, what was your final bid, 700+ ectos?) Oh well, "the risk of a changeable market" and all that.  |
Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex
The problem with GW is the lack of any good options for rich people to spend money on. There is FoW armor and....title, and that's it?! Title for one is absolutley pointless since you have to mouse over the person to see it lol, no one will bother looking. So that leaves FoW armor and Fow armor only. (well, and guild npcs but that's only limited to guild hall, so its just as bad)
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What do you think would eventually happen if rare skins stay expensive? We'd have an ever decreasing group of people shifting ever increasing amounts of gold and ecto around. Over time, it would all grow more and more separated from the real game. Heck, it is already. It would all be a pointless exercise in the end.
That's why the economy needs a swift and brutal kick to the nuts.
Ghull Ka
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
Many possibilities, but my pet theory is this:
Anet is going to cut back on Collectors. Think about it: every Chapter has two new professions, with about 8 more reqs that need to have items for. As Guild Wars grows, it's going to be harder and harder to keep track of all the collector's items needed to fullfill the needs of every player. |
One of the biggest bummers about Factions was the collectors. Don't get me wrong, I was very happy to see all the variety of mods that existed for each and every weapon type in the game (except wands... they were all +5<50/20%HSR). But there were just SO many collector item drops, and very little room to store them. When material storage came out, I remember thinking "Great, but how about collector item storage! That's what my mule character is overflowing with!"
So now, with each part of a weapon being salvagable, and with the weapon not disintegrating when it's salvaged, the need for collectors is going to be much, much less. Find any max damage item, apply an inscription, and you're off to the races. And that's a good thing, because now with another two new professions being added, the list of collectors could get HUGE.
I really, really, really hope that all the mods on wands, staves, offhands and shields will be swappable too (with respect to their current limitations, of course... no +30hp, +30hp shields heh). I'm just foaming at the mouth in anticipation of total equipment micro-customization. It's wooterskates.
Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ghull Ka
I'm just foaming at the mouth in anticipation of total equipment micro-customization. It's wooterskates.
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Tweaking your characters down to the tiniest detail at the drop of a few gold with a mod trader. The ultimate implementation of the good old 'skill over time played' shtick.
Clawdius_Talonious
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
That would be awesome indeed.
Tweaking your characters down to the tiniest detail at the drop of a few gold with a mod trader. The ultimate implementation of the good old 'skill over time played' schtick. |
Mordakai
Where did all the anti-inscripters go?
Things are waaaay too happy here!
Things are waaaay too happy here!
Phoenix Ex
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
Well, you're getting down to the whole bloody point I've been trying to make all along on this thread.
What do you think would eventually happen if rare skins stay expensive? We'd have an ever decreasing group of people shifting ever increasing amounts of gold and ecto around. Over time, it would all grow more and more separated from the real game. Heck, it is already. It would all be a pointless exercise in the end. That's why the economy needs a swift and brutal kick to the nuts. |
DeathByAmor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
Where did all the anti-inscripters go?
Things are waaaay too happy here! |
Clawdius_Talonious
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DeathByAmor
Yeah I'm happier with them gone as well. It won't last though cause they always show up and stir the pot.
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Ghull Ka
OMG just had a thought:
What if, when Nightfall arrives, the collectors all change? Some will give out "blank" weapons only, and others will give out inscriptions and upgrades?
Why relegate +30 fort mods and 15^50 inscriptions to traders (npc or otherwise)? Why not give them out freely at collectors!?
/zomgjoygasm
What if, when Nightfall arrives, the collectors all change? Some will give out "blank" weapons only, and others will give out inscriptions and upgrades?
Why relegate +30 fort mods and 15^50 inscriptions to traders (npc or otherwise)? Why not give them out freely at collectors!?
/zomgjoygasm
Clawdius_Talonious
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ghull Ka
OMG just had a thought:
What if, when Nightfall arrives, the collectors all change? Some will give out "blank" weapons only, and others will give out inscriptions and upgrades? Why relegate +30 fort mods and 15^50 inscriptions to traders (npc or otherwise)? Why not give them out freely at collectors!? /zomgjoygasm |
Evls Pwn
excuse me for thinking ruining the economy is a bad idea.... No one can really argue 1 way or another on this because anet hasn't confirmed anything anyways. No need to get our hopes up or down.
Mordakai
Sigh. The economy won't be "ruined", just "changed".
It's opinion if the change is bad or good.
It's opinion if the change is bad or good.
supaet
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
Did you read any of my posts in this thread at all? I'm guessing no. Because, if you did, you'd have read that my problem isn't 'working' to accomplish something in the game. I even suggested putting in crafters for vanity weapon skins, for god's sake.
There's a huge difference between buying FoW armor and paying exorbitant amounts of money to other players for vanity skins. Buying FoW armor helps the economy along. It removes resources from the game. Every FoW armor bought goes a little way to fighting inflation. If no resources ever left the game, there'd soon be more gold around than all existing accounts together could hold. People would put their gold in trader items, until each and everyone of them maxed out at 100k. That's why there are gold sinks: mechanisms to remove resources from the economy. Buying armor is a gold sink, buying keys or ale is a gold sink. Customizing weapons is a very subtle gold sink, removing 10 gold AND a weapon from the economy. Paying another player gold and ectos for a weapon, that's not a gold sink. There's nothing inherently wrong with player trading of course. There isn't even anything wrong at all with wealthy players passing ever-increasing amounts of gold around in an endless circle of self-congratulatory wankery. It just doesn't contribute to the real game, it's something those players made up themselves. That's why ANet can break it up any time they want, and only the people completely caught up in it will be hurt, and the people who care about what other people pay for their items. The game won't be hurt, just the people who think e-wealth amounts to anything, and the people begrudging other people. These guys make up one part of the people against it. The rest of them are doomsayers who are clueless about game economics. And by the way, aren't the doomsayers a funny lot? Half of them proclaim everything will be more expensive after these changes, and the other half insist that nothing will be worth mud anymore.  Here's my prediction: "Things will change. The economy will bounce back and run on another level. The vast majority of players will shrug and play on. The rest will find something else to bitch about." |
Akhilleus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
Geez, the anti-Inscription crowd really knows how to turn this argument around, doesn't it?
Since Anet is the one instituting the change, shouldn't we assume they know what they are doing? After all, it's their vision of the game that in the end really matters, not ours. |
anets a company, they wany to make a profit (rightfully so).
economically speaking, the ideal free MMORPG would be one that EVERYONE purchases, but noone plays.
why?
same money from buyign the game, but they wouldnt have to maintain the servers.
even if anet did know what its doing, inscriptions were most likely instigated by an unhappy playerbase that does NOT know what its doing.
Velath
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Akhilleus
even if anet did know what its doing, inscriptions were most likely instigated by an unhappy playerbase that does NOT know what its doing. |
ChildeOfMalkav
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Akhilleus
inscriptions were most likely instigated by an unhappy playerbase that does NOT know what its doing.
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Akhilleus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Velath
such is real life that a company will cater to its larger customer base, which in this case, you're not.
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you think i dont know this? hell, ive posted as much at LEAST a dozen times.
in fact, one of my main points of contention; that the same thing happened to diablo2, is based 100% off of this irrefutible fact, that the game's producers listened to the majority of the players, and insodoing, ruined the game for the very people they had listened too.
but for the past 6,000 years of human history its been proven again and again that the single WORST thing you can do, is cater to the mob.
stupid people only see whats ebenificial to themselves, not society as a whole, which happens to be the larger part of why ive given up arguing with some of the people in this thread...a few of them are just to dumb to ever realize they're wrong. ignorance is bliss.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav
Does not know what it's doing? You mean not grinding and farming pointlessly and actually playing the game? Sure then.
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i dont farm, never have, never will...its booring. i was a trader, and enjoyed doing it.
seccondly, if by "playing the game" you mean having 17 lvl 20 characters, 9 of which are pvp ready and have beaten BOTH chapters, with all the important elite unlocks, and at least 1 lvl 20 of every single character class in the game, pver 2,500 hours of pve/pvp play logged (the remainder of my time trading/talking) then yeah...i suppose you could say i "play the game."
Mordakai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by supaet
Good point, I aggree with you on the gold sink. As a result, in order to remove golds from the game in order to fight inflation, one needs to be able to obtain fow armor right. let say that someone wants to buy an fow set, they have 90% of the cost in their inv, all they need to do is to sell a weapon for 100k + a few ectos, then they will buy fow and that will accomplish gold sinking. Weapons selling for 100k+a few ectos is the only efficient way to get fow (in order to gold sink). If you remove 100k+ worth of weapons from the game, how are people going to get their fow? how are people going to get their gold sink? mindlessly farm uw/fow for ectos? that's boring. You can make money from trading, that's a big part of the game. How many fow armor owner out there NEVER sold a weapon for 100k+xx ectos? not coutining those who ebayed of course
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I'd rather have cheap mods and cheap skins then FoW armor, anyway!
And Akhilleus, how much gold do I need before "I know what I'm doing"?
Phoenix Ex
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav
Does not know what it's doing? You mean not grinding and farming pointlessly and actually playing the game? Sure then.
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I have a character of every primary profession lvl 20, all skill unlocked, finished all missions, finished all bonuses, finished all quests, done UW/FoW/Deep/Urgoz, got max survivor, got grandmaster cartographer 100% for cantha and tyria....Fow armor for 1 char and 15k of all flavors for the rest....
3 months ago....what to do until next chapter.
Somehow, I have a really bad feeling ANet put so few content for non-casual players so that they save server space or something. And even those few end game areas that they put in are almost perpetually locked, thanks to favor, and the annoying faction grind system.
We need more options with enough flashiness that keep people interested instead of "ok I finished this game in 2 days, what to do? I know! I'll go farm weapons!".
Clawdius_Talonious
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Akhilleus
but for the past 6,000 years of human history its been proven again and again that the single WORST thing you can do, is cater to the mob.
stupid people only see whats ebenificial to themselves, not society as a whole, which happens to be the larger part of why ive given up arguing with some of the people in this thread...a few of them are just to dumb to ever realize they're wrong. ignorance is bliss. |
My character got neutered because of people crying that a level 13 shouldn't ever under any circumstance be allowed to kill a level 19+5, and they nerfed my guild until I couldn't even kill the NPCs I used to kill. That MUD spiraled out of control on that front for quite awhile, lowering things constantly and pandering to the lowest common denominator.
But show me the thread on here where someone recommended Anet let us salvage inheirent modifications, I would like to see it. I would be interested to know if this is an idea they had to nix all of the 100k+__ecto sales of weapon skins that would be worthless with the exact same stats on another skin.
I would imagine there's a Sardelac thread about being able to focus your salvage attempt, but I've not seen one requesting inheirent salvage options. If they came up with the idea then they aren't "cater[ing] to the mob" and if they did scrap the idea, then wouldn't they just be listening to you?
If that's the case, then wouldn't you just be being upset that they aren't going to cater to your whim? Could it be that if the "mob" wanted things to stay the same, that you would have phrased your statement differently? If common opinion differs from your own, does that make it wrong?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex
QFT....BUT, the problem is this.
I have a character of every primary profession lvl 20, all skill unlocked, finished all missions, finished all bonuses, finished all quests, done UW/FoW/Deep/Urgoz, got max survivor, got grandmaster cartographer 100% for cantha and tyria....Fow armor for 1 char and 15k of all flavors for the rest.... 3 months ago....what to do until next chapter. Somehow, I have a really bad feeling ANet put so few content for non-casual players so that they save server space or something. And even those few end game areas that they put in are almost perpetually locked, thanks to favor, and the annoying faction grind system. We need more options with enough flashiness that keep people interested instead of "ok I finished this game in 2 days, what to do? I know! I'll go farm weapons!". |
Mordakai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pheonix Ex
Somehow, I have a really bad feeling ANet put so few content for non-casual players so that they save server space or something.
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After all, like Akhilleus says, the perfect on-line game is one that everyone buys, but no one plays.
Maybe we aren't supposed to be playing Guild Wars 24/7...
supaet
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
Please tell me the difference between farming Ectos and farming perfect weapons that sell for over 100k.... why is one boring, and the other not?
I'd rather have cheap mods and cheap skins then FoW armor, anyway! And Akhilleus, how much gold do I need before "I know what I'm doing"? |
Mordakai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by supaet
because rare weapons can be obtain every where, you can get it without "farming", you can get from chests. You can get it from other player from varies prices. It has many different type of items. Do you really not know getting items is more fun than grining in uw for ectos? You can get ectos without farming for it, just buy from trader. Thus the process of getting rare items is more fun than the process of getting ectos and fow armor.
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My point, and perhaps you missed this, is some of us don't enjoy trading. Or chest runs. Or farming.
We get our weapons from Collectors and Crafters. Which is fine...
But now Anet comes up with a great new idea, and I'm labeled "lazy" and a "whiner" because I like it? No, sir. It wasn't my idea. Hell, I didn't even have the idea to put Mod Merchants with the Inscriptions, but I hope they do!
Bottom line, this will make Guild Wars more fun for the majority.
And I suspect with a little ingenuity, even some hard-core traders will have fun with the new Inscriptions, too.
Clawdius_Talonious
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
Chest runs are a waste of money. Even during the increased key drops / increased Gold items weekend, I spent a few thousand on keys, and it got me nothing.
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You get a Gothic Sword req 8 15^50, and sell it for 100k+e
you buy 200 keys and then run them ALL, you get two items valuable enough to sell for 100k+e, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat...
Doesn't that sound FUN?
No?
I don't think so either, but some people are mad that their virtual wealth MAY be affected by this change.
supaet
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
Chest runs are a waste of money. Even during the increased key drops / increased Gold items weekend, I spent a few thousand on keys, and it got me nothing.
My point, and perhaps you missed this, is some of us don't enjoy trading. Or chest runs. Or farming. We get our weapons from Collectors and Crafters. Which is fine... But now Anet comes up with a great new idea, and I'm labeled "lazy" and a "whiner" because I like it? No, sir. It wasn't my idea. Hell, I didn't even have the idea to put Mod Merchants with the Inscriptions, but I hope they do! Bottom line, this will make Guild Wars more fun for the majority. And I suspect with a little ingenuity, even some hard-core traders will have fun with the new Inscriptions, too. |
Franco
Quote:
| put Mod Merchants with the Inscriptions, but I hope they do! |
O_O Hell no!! We wont even be able to sell 15^50s that way. ><
Clawdius_Talonious
Quote:
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Originally Posted by supaet
if you pvp, why should you care about the skin.......
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Mordakai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by supaet
ok, I take it that you do not have any fow. Then just use crafter or collector items. I take it that you don't enjoy trading or farming. You finish the game yet? if you do, what you gonna do? pvp only? if you pvp, why should you care about the skin.......
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I admit, I use Crafter and Collector weapons. My only Greens are from the end of Factions.
I'm a Casual player, I only have 3 level 20 characters, and NONE of them have done every quest in the game. Hell, I didn't even do the Titan quests or Sorrow's Furnace yet...
so, frankly, not having anything to do is not an issue to me.
I don't care about skins, at all, but I still think this is a great idea, if for no other reason than cheap mods not available at collectors or crafters.
And, really, do I need a reason to like it? It just makes logic sense: we can already salvage mods, why not salvage the Inscription, or "inherent" mod as well? I mean, seriously, why not?
I'm sorry you don't have anything to do in Guild Wars anymore, but frankly, that sounds like a personal problem. You can do something else, you know, until Nightfall comes out...
In fact, why should I feel guilty becuase I can't play GW 24 hours a day? I mean, seriously, people, you are not the only ones playing the game.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Franco
O_O Hell no!! We wont even be able to sell 15^50s that way. ><
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Mark my words, we're not getting an Auction House. We're getting Merchants to handle every transaction, that way, every transaction is a bit of a gold sink. (You always sell to the merchant for less than you buy).
It just makes sense.
(oh, yeah, and like Gli says, it provides price control).
=HT=Ingram
I made the suggestion ages ago that ALL modded weapons should be customized via the blacksmith and you all got pissy about it immediately...
If you go to the blacksmith to put inscriptions, and other mods onto a weapon it SHOULD be customized to your character for YOUR or YOUR Heroes use only. I took it a step further and said that it Could be customized for your account only... allowing your other characters to use it too, but even that was shot down by those that want to preserve their inflation market... So I have no pity now... I stand by my recomendations on this from June 2005 even though the new salvage is not part of it, the concept of crafting the new weapons from such salvage should be the same.
If you go to the blacksmith to put inscriptions, and other mods onto a weapon it SHOULD be customized to your character for YOUR or YOUR Heroes use only. I took it a step further and said that it Could be customized for your account only... allowing your other characters to use it too, but even that was shot down by those that want to preserve their inflation market... So I have no pity now... I stand by my recomendations on this from June 2005 even though the new salvage is not part of it, the concept of crafting the new weapons from such salvage should be the same.
Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Franco
O_O Hell no!! We wont even be able to sell 15^50s that way. ><
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Rune traders don't stop me from selling my superior vigor for 30k
Dye traders don't stop me from selling my black dye for 9k
Material traders don't stop me from selling my ectoplasm for 6.5k
Traders are great because they ensure supply and demand prices.
Franco
mmm dont stop you, I buy and sell mostly everything to traders except ectos.
Do you think i have the patience to stand around spamming wtb and wts, thas what guru is for lol.
Do you think i have the patience to stand around spamming wtb and wts, thas what guru is for lol.
=HT=Ingram
and those are reasonable prices Gli that's the point. I remember a day not too long ago when Superior vigors were well over 120k and THAT was ridiculous...
Also remember when Ecto was over 40k also ridiculous...
Once the traders came in the market got some regulation and stabilized. Thats all we are asking for.
Also remember when Ecto was over 40k also ridiculous...
Once the traders came in the market got some regulation and stabilized. Thats all we are asking for.
Franco
god i wish i played gw when the prices were like that.... make 120k in 1 or 2 hours lol.
Gizzen Garr
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Franco
O_O Hell no!! We wont even be able to sell 15^50s that way. ><
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Phoenix Ex
Bottom line is, the current prices for most of the gold weapons are ridiculously overpriced, maybe with the exception of crystalline and a few other.
So, this system is a step to fixing the prices, but HOPEFULLY ANet will be smart enough to think of something to keep the prices at a decent level (that truly rare skins that doesn't drop that much like crystalline SHOULD cost the max amount a player can carry, 100k, but stuff like zodiac that drops like flies should not be more than 50k, etc.
And ANet need to add more incentive for the less casual players to keep them interested (i've said this like 5 times in this one topic). Remember that the hardcores also help pay for content development, and they are also usually the one that will promote guild wars rather than nitpicking on its fault. (Most casual players I know are constantly complaining about fow/weapon/title/everything being too expensive, and how elite skill bosses spawn too randomly in prophecies, etc.)
So, this system is a step to fixing the prices, but HOPEFULLY ANet will be smart enough to think of something to keep the prices at a decent level (that truly rare skins that doesn't drop that much like crystalline SHOULD cost the max amount a player can carry, 100k, but stuff like zodiac that drops like flies should not be more than 50k, etc.
And ANet need to add more incentive for the less casual players to keep them interested (i've said this like 5 times in this one topic). Remember that the hardcores also help pay for content development, and they are also usually the one that will promote guild wars rather than nitpicking on its fault. (Most casual players I know are constantly complaining about fow/weapon/title/everything being too expensive, and how elite skill bosses spawn too randomly in prophecies, etc.)
Clawdius_Talonious
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Franco
god i wish i played gw when the prices were like that.... make 120k in 1 or 2 hours lol.
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Franco
Yes on on the other hand UW wasnt nerfed and actually dropped ectos ^^.
sixdartbart
My goodness this is an entertaining thread 
I love how a few people here ( Mort and a couple others come to mind) are able to make their arguements without turning to personal attacks or labeling entire blocks of people that you disagree with, while most are so concerned with making their point that they will contradict themselves and just devolve into name calling
Before you guys get yourselves too much farther out on a limb with any of your points you should read the chat log from Gaile yesterday http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...php?t=10054375
My impression from this is that they had an idea and didn't think through all of the effects it may have in other aspects of the game but are now "discussing the finer points of it" most likely thanks to discussions like this one so keep in mind that if you have any intention of being listened too and taken seriously it is much more likely to happen when you dont sound like an angry self serving child
Wait and see is a fine approach for some people who will blindly believe that since Anet makes the game they must know everything about what they are doing but regaurdless of how well intentioned they as everyone will sometimes do things that have unintended outcomes.
Are we better to try and get some of these problems worked out before it actually causes problems that they didn't mean to happen or wait for the virtual sky to fall before wanted them to take a closer look???
Peace
I love how a few people here ( Mort and a couple others come to mind) are able to make their arguements without turning to personal attacks or labeling entire blocks of people that you disagree with, while most are so concerned with making their point that they will contradict themselves and just devolve into name calling
Before you guys get yourselves too much farther out on a limb with any of your points you should read the chat log from Gaile yesterday http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...php?t=10054375
My impression from this is that they had an idea and didn't think through all of the effects it may have in other aspects of the game but are now "discussing the finer points of it" most likely thanks to discussions like this one so keep in mind that if you have any intention of being listened too and taken seriously it is much more likely to happen when you dont sound like an angry self serving child
Wait and see is a fine approach for some people who will blindly believe that since Anet makes the game they must know everything about what they are doing but regaurdless of how well intentioned they as everyone will sometimes do things that have unintended outcomes.
Are we better to try and get some of these problems worked out before it actually causes problems that they didn't mean to happen or wait for the virtual sky to fall before wanted them to take a closer look???
Peace