Is anyone else worried about the new salvage options?

I think your statement is just about accurate, we'll have to wait and see.

Whenever you've got a community of players who dismiss people who have less than five million gold as "lucky" or "Ebayers", they've certainly lost touch with the masses of Guild Wars players who play for the game itself, and not for their "perfect" rare items. The way I see it is having your playerbase seperated into two communities (the haves and have nots, as stated in another thread) then in my opinion it's indicitive that something's got to give (French Revolution, anyone?). Perhaps next one of the anti-inscriptionists will be saying Jeff Strain has said "let them eat cake" [/sarcasm]

You should explain better who are "the people i know&care about".
From you previous posts, I got the idea that you're speaking about a specific category of players, that is players who consider that the ultimate GW goal is collecting uber rare unique items, and work to reach this goal.

In my opinion and from my experience, this is a very little minority of the player base, and, opposite as many have said, they will not ensure the future of GW.

The future of GW is represented by the so called "casual" players and especially by new players.
For both, the new system will add something to enjoy more the game, that is the satisfaction of creating items with the skin and the stats they like, without the need to deal with the "100k+XXecto no noobz offerz" morons, but just "working" a reasonable amount of time to achieve a "small" result that for them is a big one and can encourage them to go on instead of being frustrated.

A class of collectors and traders for "100k+XXXectos" of rare unique items will not keep this game alive. They just play their own minigame inside the main game, thinking that their minigame is "the" game.

If someone really "cares about" the future of GW, the only thing he/she can do should be this: spend his/her time helping newcomers to enjoy the game.

An example, just something happened to me yesterday.
I was in Shing Jea with one of my mule characters (yes I have 4 of them, I contributed to A.net buying 2 extra slots for each account lol) by the storage, and an elementalist opened a trade window offering me a red dye, a purple katana, a vial of ink and another cheap item. I closed the trade window, then I saw him/her opening with another character, with no success again.
I pm the ele, and the dialog was:
"do you need money?"
"yes, I have a lot of things to do with it!"
"how much do you need?"
"600g"

OMG! I felt really ashamed, I'm not a uber rich player but anyway I have 500k in my storage, 600g for me is nothing but I realize that for a newcomer represents at least an acceptable armor to begin the game. I gave him/her 3k and then I spent some time explaining to save gold for armors and how to acquire collectors weapons which are the best to play the game.

I hope I did something that helped a new player in the early stages of the game, but I'm aware that giving gold is nothing compared to give to other players the most important resource we have in game: our time, and possibly our experience.

I have a friend I usually play with, he's got 8 PvE character who have completed both Tyria and Cantha, all his chars have 1,5k armors, the only green and gold weapons he has are those he dropped in game, probably he has no more than 20k in his storage, anyway he is called all the time by guildmates and lots of other people who know him as a skilled and reliable player and want him for help in missions.

The same thing doesn't happen to me, because I play alone for a good part of the time, and since I want the gold 15^50 weapons with the skins I like (which are not the 1337 ones but the ones "I" like) I spend a lot of time farming greens or just farming gold.

The result is that I have 4x15k armors perfectly runed (and the other 4 chars with 1,5k also with sup vigors and I didn't buy the 15k simply because I didn't like the look) 5-6 "perfect" gold weapons over 100k, 500k in storage + several superior vigors for the future armors, but they call him and not me.

If I will be able to spend less time farming for equipment, and more playing the game together with other people and also with newcomers, my personal game experience will be furtherly improved.

Wow, a kindred spirit

I find it much more fulfilling to help a new player to understand the basic concepts of, and enjoy Guild Wars, than I get from seeing a lot of gold in my storage.

In the interest of expediency I spent 1/3rd more than I should have on the items I wanted, because I could get them as a set last night. Now I'm broke as a joke, so you've got more gold than I do atm. However, we both seem to share the attitude that it's just VIRTUAL money and isn't the focus of the game itself.

I can often be found with my monk (Santa Claws) giving away nice low req equipment to low level players. I've seen them turn around and sell it, but at the same time perhaps the platinum is more beneficial to them - at those early levels after you've just begun playing even a few plat seems like a nice chunk of change (besides after I give it away I don't care what happens to it, even if it's a req 8 Gothic +15-5e[although I do try to ensure it's a low level character of the appropriate class so they may actually put it to use]).

I'd like to address the arguments that state "You should work for the rare skins and not just be given them to you."

Since when did anyone say that items should be given? Changing the salvaging system doesnt change the fact that you still have to BUY or work/farm/trade for the mods/skins/inscriptions that you need.

Right now, the requirement of work needed to get certain things are FAR FAR TOO HIGH. Meaning that the prices are far too high. This new salvaging system not only gives people more options and versatility in making their weapons, but also lowers the insane prices that have erupted in this game.

Also, if you believe that this new system will kill your trading way of life, you're very wrong. This certainly won't kill trading. It won't kill the economy. It might kill your ego boost from a sale of a 100k +56 ecto item but I think we can all live with that.

Nowadays when you find e.g. a Gothic Sword 14^50 req.10, you can sell it with a little luck for 5-10k. Half of a 15k armor piece gained.
After inscriptions are introduced (and they work how we expect them to) this sword will be direct to merchant fodder. Non perfect inscription and requirement to high for selling. About 400g gained.
I don't care about the super highend rares market of zodiacs & crystallines, but i fear that the mid range market will cease to exist and if a casual player wants a piece of 15k, he must grind for gold.
The inscriptions market will be controlled by ShingJae chest runners, Gates of Kryta farmers, etc. No gold to get there.

Perhaps Anet has anticipated people salivating at the idea of low end chest runs to harvest inscriptions, and will make it less viable than people currently theorize?

Imagine, an Inscription Kit costs 5 plat, and has 10 uses. When you use it on an item at or near max, you have a near 90% or so chance to harvest the inscription. Used on a low end item, you could have a 10-20% chance of actually removing the inscription (and if they aren't just part of the salvage kits, perhaps one attempt at removal could destroy the inscription, causing you to have to try again on another item. Then you'd be looking at spending 5400 gold for 10 attempts that have a high chance of failure, or 11k to have a much higher chance to remove the inscription)? Perhaps that would make inscriptions more than just something people can easily aquire and sell for inflated costs? I have noticed myself that when a +5e staff head or something is on a low end gold, the chances of salvaging it (instead of 6 wood planks) are not as good as they are if the item is a higher req... Just my two cents

The bottom line is it's Anet's sollution to this that I look forward to seeing, not idle speculation that this will bring about total economic collapse and we'll all be farming dirt (Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here!)

Perhaps the people that will be hardest hit are the people who make money off of turning items around without farming or anything, and are upset that their way of play may be altered. (Help, help, I'm being repressed!)

Pfft. You looking at it the wrong way. The new salvaging system will actually make almost everything worth something because now you can take that Gothic Sword 14^50 and put a 15^50 on it instead. And everything that is worthless right now (e.g. clean max weapons with no inherant mods) will be useful to a lot of people who dont care if it's a gold weapon, as long as it's max damage.

This will distribute the value of weapons over a wider spread, instead of in a handful of items. And why is that bad? It's only bad for people who only play the game in a trading economy type of way and who only get rich from making those few big sales off of a few very high priced items.

I think his point was the req 10 being worthless, people seeking req 7-8 max as the penultimate weapons. However I tend to agree with you, but nevertheless it's plausible that req 10 14^50 wouldn't sell for more than 3-5k after the release. I don't think I'd consider it necessarily merchant fodder. However me, I'd already sell a req 10 Gothic to the merchant more often than I would to a player for a paltry sum.

Why should i waste a 15^50 on a high req. weapon, when it's possible to upgrade a req.7 white? Clean max weapons might see a higher price, but it won't be a significant increase since they drop very often.

Increase in supply with stable demand results in lower prices overall. With fixed prices for 15k armor this means more drops needed.

Well, think of it this way:

What is better for the game, lower prices on rare-modded items, or "easier" to get 15k armor?

It seems to me, that this feature of making any weapon we want cheaper will be more useful to casual gamers, than the chance to get 15k armor easier with some lucky drops on weapons (assuming "casual" players even have the patience to trade such drops, and not just go to the Merchant, either out of ignorance, or not wanting to waste time spamming "WTB XXXXX").

For people who are actively looking for things to sell in order to get FoW or 15k armor, this might make the process a little longer, but isn't that one thing people are arguing for anyway? End game grind for "vanity" items?

What are the ultimate weapons, then?

There are none, this is Guild Wars.

I only want to make the point that the new system will change the market and although the changes will be positive for a certain part of the population, there will also be people affected negatively and those people are not necessarily members of the "crystalline crowd".

I for myself use for my six characters 1rare weapon that i found, about a dozen green and for the most part collector/crafter blues. On the other hand most of my chars have more than one 15k armor.

I never understood why people put such a high value on low req weapons. As long as you meet the requirement what does it matter? If my weapon skill attribute isnt at least 10, then why bother? Anyway, I'm sure a lot of people will still have use for a req 10 weapon. Only the people who dont know better and think that somehow a low req weapon is better will think a high req weapon is useless.


Or it means that previously "useless" weapons can now be sold for something. It might mean more drops are needed but it also means that your chances of getting something that can be useful are now increased. Value is now distributed more widely instead of concentrated in that ONE single "uber" drop. Besides, I got 3 sets of 15k armor without ever having to sell items to players.

QFT

Skill > Pretty/Low Req Items

Please don't use that quote as a reason to start harping that people should have to buy rare skinned weapons from -you- for 100k+__ecto, or use collectors items. We've been down that road before

Zomg! You mean you can actually aquire what you're after by playing the game!?! Wow, who would've thunk it?

As we can see with the increased dropping Superior Absorption runes, the demand will be saturated after a while and the price will balance out at a very low level. Same thing will happen to common clean max skins.

I my opinion the new system will backfire and result in more grind for gold for casual players so they can afford non-vanity stuff like skills and vigor runes.

I really doubt that. Most casual players dont even bother selling/trading weapons to other players. Heck, I dont consider myself casual and still I dont bother playing the player economy. So their gold grinding wont change for most people.

And skills and vigor runes were always seen as too pricey. 1k per skill is a bit much when there are hundreds of them out there....but that's a different debate...

i wrote that fairly late, and ive barely slept in the past 2 months...so sue me for spelling it wrong, along with about the other 5 trillion spelling errors ive made on this thread. as long as its understandible, im fine with it ^-
B: it may make their lives better, certainly in the immidiate future they would love it, as they'd have some of the things they've wanted for a while very quickly...however, most people i know, want something to do after they've beaten the game, and the ones who already have may not be the most wealthy players, but they still appreciate meta-game activities.
all in all; its a game. and because its just a game, and not some sort of tangible good, all you get out of it is a sense of accomplishment when you complete the game or a task within it, and the fun required in order to complete said task. i know i cant speak for everyone, but with myself and many people i know, the longer it takes to do something, generally the more fun they have doing it. look at how many people complained that factions was so short compared to prophecies, many people like a longer drawn out game that they can spend their time working on; not necissarily one they can complete and have everything mastered in within a few hours or days.

There's a difference between something that is actually too short in CONTENT (Factions) and artificially giving the appearance of more content by making people chase after that carrot on a stick (i.e. making people do something longer)

I certainly hope people are intelligent enough not to fall for the carrot on a stick trick and instead enjoy the actual gameplay itself. Why fall into the trap that every other MMO seems to have?

read a book play something else until the next chapter comes out then enjoy that.

as for over fast depending on reviewer this lasted 16-20 hours and cost 50 bucks with almost no replay value.

review for example

it got good ratings

You know, the most important two factor that drawn me to this game is:

1. No monthly fee hence more bang for buck
2. In relation, the ability to take breaks in between without having to worry about wasting monthly fee.

Its also a major selling point that ANet uses to advertise with.
So its kinda dumb to say all that then put fewer content than a normal single player RPG, basically making the no monthly fee part moot, since you can finish it in less than a month...(maybe its their way of saving server cost or something)

Someone just make this thread into a word file or something... and send it out when chapter 3 comes out so we can all laugh.

I know, 'penultimate' implies that there's an 'ultimate' after it.

No, that won't happen. People will realize that an inscription is worth an inscription and nothing more. A 15^50 gothic sword will still be worth the same as 14^50 the gothic sword +the cost of the inscription = 20k if lucky. I can't really speculate at the real inscription cost of course, since it hasn't come out yet.

Depending on the Req, of course!

I'm not sure what you mean, "No, that won't happen." It sounds like you totally agree, that "The new salvaging system will actually make almost everything worth something."

What part of that statement do you disagree with?


Bottom line is, some things will go up in value, some things will go down.

Max Weapons with High reqs will be worth less... but Max "Clean" skins with low reqs should be worth more.

14^50 weapons will be worth less, but 15^50 weapons (or the Inscription itself) with non-max skins will possibly be worth more than they are now.

Is this the bigest thread ever? It is one of the most entertaining reads of all time guru forum wise. Anywho, Why dont the rich player move there money out of rare skins and into something else?

i find it very.... amusing .....that everybody is fixated on the *INSCRIPTION OF DOOM* shoe that has been announced.

they are totally ignoring the other shoes that will be falling on them when the devs finish analyzing the double weekends logs/data.
heros need weapons/items so double green weekend to see if Nightfall should ship with 2X GREENS, 5X GREENS...........OR EVEN MORE
heros can use unlocked skills but there will be a LOT of additional skills needed so we go to the 2X FACTION WEEKEND TO SEE IF IT NEEDS MAYBE 5X MORE
was there a DOUBLE GOLD DROP WEEKEND?
every 2X event was to see what adjustments are needed so the CASUAL player can equip MANY heros.
the shoes are falling we just dont know how big or hobnailed they are ........yet.............

just a guess

As Mordakai said, what exactly are you disagreeing with in my statement? Sounds like you just agreed that even a 14^50 gothic sword will still be worth something, even 20k by your speculation. Or are you saying 20k is nothing?

If you really are saying that 20k is nothing, then you are horribly out of touch with what the normal GW player considers a lot of gold.


EDIT: Next thing you know, these anti-inscriptionists will oppose an auction house on the grounds that it will lower prices on all items and it takes away the "fun" and "work" of spamming "WTS" and selling directly to another player. They'll probably say that an auction house makes it too easy for people to get what they want and that it's practically handing items free to them.

If you think I'm exagerrating, just look at some of the comments in this thread.

I don't think you're exaggerating at all. By admission, traders make money by buying low, selling high.

Auction House, Mod/Inscription Merchants are all the "enemy" of the trader, because it takes that aspect out of their hands.

However, I think most people would welcome an Auction House, despite the protests of the serious trader.

I have said it before and I will say it again. The biggest problem with our current market is that unless your item has a perfect dmg mod you will not be able to sell it. The only way you can sell a non perfect dmg mod is if it is a rare skin like a Crystalline, Dwarven, Serpent, Sephis, Brute, ect... Other than that it is next to impossible to sell it.

IMO GW should have never gone down this road. I believe that when you are purchasing an item you should be able to buy for skin first then add whatever mods you need for the particular build you need to run. Of course if a skin is rare and has a low req you should pay more, but the mods should be completely customizable. There is enough grind in PvE as there is to unlock skills and obtain enough gold to buy skills and capture signets. Grinding for a perfect dmg mod on a rare skin weapon is just too much for the common player. If a weapon were to drop with that perfect mod you would just sell for value of skin/req + the value of the inherent mod.

Such as???

With the limited cap on the amount of gold an acct can hold this is one of the only things for alot of players to do with their cash.

Wealth is completely subjective but I will go ahead and say 20k is nothing just to make you feel better.
Completely without farming and "grinding" as so many people seem to complain about ANY player should be able to get much larger sums than this just by playing the game normally and anyone who disagrees obviously hasn't noticed that gold falls from the sky in this game.
What players choose to spend their gold on may be the place for people who think they are broke all the time may need to look into



Yes by all means you should be inventing arguments that nobody is making based on nothing more than wanting to argue
Just to be clear; As far as I've noticed most of the people opposed to this aren't the type of players who waste their time spamming WTB/WTS but more likely dealing through guru or with other players they already know.

An auction house would be fine if thats how people think it would be easier/cheaper to get things since they are oblivious to the existing ways to do this already.
Mod traders would be a great idea too no different from dye traders and rune traders and I have no idea why Anet hasn't already done so.
Removing inherent mods without destroying the item for the purpose of lowering prices of rare items I believe to be a horrible long term idea as it will remove tons of incentives that players will have to continue playing after a certain point.
Sadly it seems that most people here can't see past what will benefit them right now.

This is what you consider "grind" ? most people think of this as playing the game but hey opinions vary.
Perhaps they should make every new character start with all of the skills including elites and would 100k starting cash be enough for you or should they start you off with more???

Take a close look at how you have managed to get "common" and "rare" in that statement.
But yes by all means lets completely remove the meaning behind anything rare and with it we can remove all sense of accomplishment players get by findings items in the game.
Hell maybe we can make the monsters stop dropping items all together just so nobody will feel left out if someone else gets what they want

Edit for another idea;
How about they make a / command for being able to choose what a chest will drop for you???

So, sixdart, will you be quitting GW when Inscriptions are released?

I believe the "incentive" to play Guild Wars is just to have fun! And yes, I think the more chances of getting "rare" mods, the more fun it will be!

I mean, I guess there are some people who have collected every rare skin and every mod out there, but I sure haven't. And if this update allows more people to do that: GREAT!

Guess what, this weekend I'm going to try and get some Greens. Greens I could probably Buy outright, but I'd rather kill the monster and get them myself. In the same way, I don't think "falling prices" on rare skins will destroy GW. People will still want Req 7, max damage, Rare skins. I they will still be hard to find, with or without Inscriptions.

Wanting to argue is what you're doing by inventing a motive for why I posted that argument. And stop with the hostilities, I never shoved any onto you.

The reason I brought up the auction house was to make a point that the new salvaging system will do a lot of the same things an auction house will do (i.e. bring prices down, make it easier for the average casual player to get the items that they want)

And no I didnt make up any of the arguments, as I said, just look at the posts in this thread and you'll see that people have made those comments. I only applied those comments to similar effects that an auction house will bring.

Next time, if you dont understand someone's point of their post, just ask them. Dont accuse them of trying to start a fight simply because you dont understand.

Pretty much sums up this whole thread.


I don’t think it will have that much of an affect you will see some prices drop and other rise.


And price will drop since things would be more localized instead of being spread out and there will be more of a view as to how common certain items are. Not to mention the compaction of betting out the other seller with lowering the price.

Really for those who are so worried about the “economy of the game” an Auction House is more of a threat then the new salvage options.

I keep seeing the anti-inscriptionists repeat this mantra over and over again. Yet the main reason they oppose the new salvaging system is because they dont want people to have easier access to rares. Some are protecting their own investments while others just dont want their own incentives (i.e. trading for large sums of gold) to be "destroyed"

So who exactly cant see past their own interests here?

1- Leaning that way now but not because of the inscriptions more because of the way they keep dumbing down the game and removing the things I liked about GWs when I started playing it nearly 2 years ago and from what I've seen Nightfall will continue that trend [ replacing PvP with Pv Some guy and his heroes] ohh what a wonderful idea but thats an entire different subject

2- Agree with you completely about the incentive to play is for fun but keep in mind people have many different ways that they do that. IE getting things that not everyone in the game has or that require a lot of effort to get.
Doesn't more = the opposite of rare?

3-I don't have anywhere close to every rare skin ect. ect. but when I get the urge to have something new be it a different combo of mods on a shadow shield, new style of sword or kick ass setups for my casters it has always been an entertaining goal for me to acquire them on my own knowing the challenge that lies ahead rather than running over to an NPC and having them in 2 minutes.

4-Good luck with "grinding" away for those greens this weekend J/K But by the statement that you would rather get them yourself I really don't think we are that far apart on the things we enjoy about the game. My biggest point here is to leave the "rare" in the rares which greens don't fall into and FYI those nasty things will stain your hands green

I don't believe inscriptions 'as we believe they will work' we be the downfall of GWs either but it will definitely remove one aspect of the game that a lot of players enjoy and will damage some of the longer term aspects of the game.

IMO the downfall will come from dumbing down the game to the lowest common denominator for everyone who jumps on the make this and that easier bandwagon [this game really can't get much easier can it?]. The previous and future examples are too long to list but I truly believe this to be one more item on that list.

Merely my opinion
Peace

Like what ? Ectos will drop in price eventually so no way we can waste it on that, everything drops in price and you can only hold 1000k in storage, so hold into what? Start selling it in ebay ?


Oh and by the way, better get you used to the 100k+xx ectos idea, because when Nightfall comes out I can assure a lot of people will be saying.


^__^

[QUOTE]since it looks as though Anet is gutting the very high end market down to size (could be wrong)..............

how much do you wish to bet that if that happens we will see a drop rate increase that will do for inscriptions what it did for superior absorb/runes in general?

Destroying the overpriced nature of weapons is a neccessary addition, nothing short of Guild Halls and features should cost more than 20 or 30k, changes should continue to be made til all items are reasonably priced so people can enjoy the game instead of farming to prepare to play the game (which is one of the halmarks this game is built on whether you like it or not).

Next addition, Traders for all Weapon Mods, and including some better options for off hand items, or Mod options.

All that aside, Green items have the potential to have more possible mods than normal weapons, and many have unique skins, still making them great aestheic pieces.