Is anyone else worried about the new salvage options?

Well, that's why I put "rare" in quotes!

But seriously, I think there still will be plenty of rare things to search for, for those who want the challenge.

And plenty of cool, not-so-rare skins and mods for those who just want to "have fun." (which, in my case, means no farming!)

And yes, I agree, people have different opinions of "what is fun." But one thing that seems painfully obvious in this thread, is that not all "casual" players are satisfied with Greens and Collector items.

I think there still will be high-end rares for the hard core farmer and trader to play for, but Inscriptions will simply give a little more access to the casual player... who knows how it will turn out? This may actually "strengthen" (ie, diversify), the economy.

yo wts 15^50 inscription, 100k + 1 million ectos.

Yes this really will give the casual player more access lol, are you kidding?

If you cant afford a 15^50 weapon now which is easy to get, what makes you think you ll be able to after the inscriptions kick in and every singple person wants one too ?

Yes, it will. Which is why you keep arguing against it. I look forward to seeing your 100k and 1 million ecto spam for months on end, since now 15>50 on ugly skins won't go to merchant but will get salvaged and applied to other items. So ya, supply will outstrip your arbitrary 100k+++ pricing.

Again, I love how all the traders say this won't make things cheaper, it will just make it more expensive and they're "so concerned" for the casual player. How will he ever afford 15k much less FoW armor, then in the next breath say how gold drops from the sky and how easy it is to get.

Transparent at best, your arguments are. <ok, so I felt like a little Yoda in there>

BTW, got too much money and think you have nothing to spend it on? I doubt you have capped every single skill and bought every skill for every character you own, and with Nightfall coming out, that's 300-350 new skills PER CHARACTER you could acquire which is 300-350k. Multiply that 8-9x for characters, and you've got plenty to get, plus all the old ones with your new paragon and dervish.

If you think there's nothing to spend your money on, that's a lie. It just means you'd rather buy something to show off then actually work towards every skill in the game with every character.

Because you could conceivably get a 15^50 inscription from a SHING JEA CHEST very easily. You say it yourself, 15^50 weapons are easy to get. Every single person already wants one. Making them salvagable and easier to get will not increase their price. What are you thinking?

(frankly i have no idea why perfect fort mods are expensive, you can get them from shing jea chests too, o.O)

Ebayers? Seriously, who else would spend the ridiculous amount for +30 HP mod, when practically every Green item has one.

Most people who play the game know this stuff isn't worth it. Which is why most people don't have an objection to lower prices for Inscriptions.

I used penultimate, as there is no ultimate weapon. You could infer that the ultimate weapon in Guild Wars is the admin banish-stick

Perhaps I should've spent more time on the exact wording, although I don't see where it matters much

Many people who play the game consider the difficulty in obtaining rare items and a challenge in a game to be fun. Perhaps your definition of fun involves everyone standing in a circle holding hands singing Kum Ba Yah, but I rather like the competitive feel and challenging aspects of games. I consider it to be incredibly lame and boring if everyone has the same weapons, armors, wands, etc.

I'd like to make a comparrison to computer upgrades since I'm a big hardware geek. What is so cool about owning a Core 2 Duo 6800? Or the latest ATI or NVIDIA graphics card with SLI(xfire)? Or having 4 gigs of the fastest Corsair XMS series memory? None of these things will make any real difference in how well you play comptuer games (150 FPS compared to 120 FPS... pleeeeaaase....) The cool factor is that not everyone has them and that if you can tweak the tiniest bit of performance out of your machine, regardless of how noticable it is, you'll be that much more proud of your investment. The utility and satisfaction we gain from being the first kid on the block with the new toy is more than likely inspired by our greed and competitive attitutedes towards one another. Thats just how people are though. Live with it.

You can deny it all you want, but the reason for wanting "rare" weapons is because they are rare, not for the skin themselves. Else you would be satisfied with a req 9 14^50 platinum blade (or whatever you fancy). Functionally, it is the same as a req 8 15^50 one. You can obtain a req 9 14^50 platinum blade for a fraction of the price of a perfect one so that even those that are adamently against the so called grind won't have a problem affording them. So if you want to collect every skin, then please feel free to collect all the 14^50 ones you want. Don't however, try to ruin things for the rest of us by crying that Anet make rare weapons less rare or that they implement inscription options for crafting perfect weapons. Have you forgotten that not too many months ago, Anet already made a huge change in the quality of rare drops. 15^50 is much more common than it used to be and now 14^50 weapons are often purples.

Those who think that the solution is to make all weapons and all skins easily obtainable don't understand the problem with their thoughts. Once an item is no longer rare, the appeal of obtaining them and the excitement of identifying a weapon or opening a chest will be lost. Hence this so called solution to the problem will in effect, do nothing in satisfying the crave for rare weapons.

So in other words, you would replace the high priced 15^50 req8 items in the game for high priced req7 rare skins? What's the difference? You are still going to see WTS for 100K + XX ectos. Let me put it this way: Mathematically, there isn't any real difference between 14^50 and 15^50 weapons due to rounding damage formulas. The only reason you want rare skinned weapons with perfect mods and upgrades is for either perfection, vanitys sake, or both. So once req7 rare skins are considered the new thing, you'll want that as well. It wouldn't surprise me if you and others like you made more whines to Anet demanding that req7 items increase in drop rate.


The game itself will never be destroyed, as long as there are little kids playing Guild Wars who like everything to be easy in a game. But the challenging and longlasting MMORPG aspects will be gone and the hardcore players will slowly dwindle off as Anet caters more and more to the whiners. If you want a game where everything is handed to you, then I'll give you a little hint:

Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start

[QUOTE]hi wink

ive been here since early beta and i have a special newsflash for you.

Jeff Strain interviews have stated that this (GW) is not, and was not ever intended to be a *HARDCORE MMORPG*

it was intended to be an easy access fun to play game that didnt need a years worth of grind to have the pretty toys.

every step to open the game to the casual player you call caving in to whiners.

newsflash wink...........the ones screaming now are the elite upper crust not the whining poor casual player

If you equate farming, grinding, and trading for rare items as something as a challenge then maybe you should be the one who needs that cheat code, except that you'd enter it a hundred times because you'd consider that fun.

Having rare stuff does not mean you're a skilled player or even "hardcore" Give me a break. As for whining, I've seen you and other like you do more whining than anyone else. Whining about your precious investments. Whining about a new system that will benefit everyone. So yeah, keep calling us whiners...


So if an upgrade to video cards were made available to everyone that would improve their systems, you'd be opposed to it because you'd no longer be the kid on the block with the best shiny new toy right? That's basically what the attitude is.

And I'll deny it again, then, cause you don't get it. Your view of this game and the "elite" trader view is NOT the same as the rest of us. A 15>50 is not a 14>50, even though may not make much of a difference. A req 8 vs a req 9 is quite a few attribute points, and while we may argue that for about any build you'd want your weapon maxed, there are times you'd want it as LOW as possible but still like dmg from the weapon that isn't nerfed from not meeting the req.

I don't want a "rare" weapon because it's "rare". Neither do most people but you collector / traders. We want the skins we want for the SKIN. I've said before, I think a crystalline sword looks like junk. I wouldn't ever want one, no matter how much you think it's worth. I look at something I think is crappy, then you can bellow all you want about how you got a 1 in 100 million drop. My thought? "You poor unlucky guy for getting that ugly weapon instead of a better drop."

You're playing this game to be a rock star, a donald trump. You want to be rich, admired, and envied. Too bad this is a game, not real life, where if your whole goal is those things in a game focused on playing with other peoples and coming up with new strategies, then you'll be pitied, not envied, and thought a loser.

What you don't like is this change helps everyone in getting things they can't realistically under the present system, and at the same time further erases the "value" of your weapons. You want them because they're rare. The rest of us don't care. We want skins we like, not for rarity. The vast majority is happier, you're unhappier, and you realize how much time you've wasted accumulating stuff you hoped you'd be envied for but in reality, never were (except by others that think like you).

Because numerous crafters can make 15^50 weapons to salvage inscriptions out of?

Please provide a link to your paraphrasing. I would really like to see when Jeff Strain mentioned that ALL pretty toys would be available to people without grind. I don't think years worth of grind is required to obtained 99% of the items out there. I've obtained most weapons, armors, runes, and skills that I've aspired to obtain and haven't spent years worth of grinding to do so. If the intent of the developers was to eliminate grind completely, then why the inclusion of Obsidian armor?

You really need to reread my original post where I specifically referenced 14^15 or higher req weapons. Care to explain why those aren't good enough for you? After all, they have that pretty skin that you are after and are functionally the same as their req8 15^50 counterparts.


When I refer to the whiners, I'm not referring to posts in this thread. I'm referring to the multitude of whiners who have cried to Anet for months now (heaven forbid they farm instead of wasting their time complaining in the forums) to hand feed them rare drops. Now that the idea of inscriptions is out, of course there is going to be complaints from our side as months worth of time investment will be thrown out the window.

Sid, so now you consider farming to be cheating? I would dare say that farming for hours to obtain items is quite the opposite of cheating and that appealing to Anet to provide you with cheaper items is much closer to cheating as you are looking for an easy way to obtain something.

Yes, but let me explain. The difference between a crossfire setup of X1950 XTX video cards and X1800 XT video cards is non existent in most games. Meaning that there is no noticable difference in 150 FPS and 120 FPS to the human eye. Likewise, a 14^50 or higher req weapon is not noticably different from a perfect, low req weapon. But the existence of perfection gives us something to aspire to. Knowing that there are better video cards out there than my own gives me motivation to save up for the next best graphics card. If everyone owned a Lamborghini then they would cease to be appealing.

This is why Capitalism works and Socialism fails. Capitalism drives us to achieve more. Socialism results in a stale and boring life. (Please don't use this as an excuse to argue economics or governments. That's not where I am heading with this.)

Not many people own a Yugo still. You gonna run out and buy one cause it's rare?

Oh, and by definition, gaming is a social activity. I can't think of a better place for socialism then there. Most people game to ESCAPE captialistic life. The only people that need to keep from getting bored and stale by introducing new things / chapters is ANET, and they have a capitalistic motivator. I leave that to them when it comes to GW, and will celebrate the ideal of the benefits the game provides.

Sounds like a contradiction. Which is it, do you want people to have access to a wide variety of skins according to their taste; or do you want everyone to have lame and boring collector weapons because they can't afford the rare, whilst a bunch of cool and special people like you all use the same uber-skin because it's rare and must therefore be used?

So nobody actually likes Lamborghinis, they just spend their money on them to be 'special?'

14^50 and 15^50 are the same because Anet rounds up in their damage calculations. Please continue to explain why you want 15^50 over 14^50 with this new insight.

For the record, I customize all of my ranger and warrior weapons. I collect to an extent, but am definitely not the type of collector or trader that you are referring to. I go for the best because its a challenge.

They always round up? Ok, how about a 28 dmg axe hit....with 14% you gain 4 pts dmg, with 15% you gain 5 pts. There's one right off the top of my head.

Small, but a difference.

Damage calculations are more complex than that. I suggest you read up on it.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Damage

Exactly what challenge are you talking about? Clearing areas over and over waiting for a randomly-determined drop? Anet isn't increasing the drop rate, so how is this ruining your fun?

Is it clearing areas over and over to save up an astronomical amount of money so you can buy the rare skin from a player? Why not just save up a bunch of money, buy the thing, and pretend you paid more for it?

If the challenge is in clearing the areas, isn't doing it its own reward? If not, isn't it just mindless drudgery?

Then don't make simple statements like that trying to make a point which can be easily disproved. If I was that interested, I'd go read it. As it is, you used it in your argument. You want to make that argument here, YOU lay it out and prove it.

You are trying to say because the game is a "social activity" that it is somehow fitting that there be a socialistic economy? Where the heck did you pull that one out of? I seriously had to read that a few times to be sure that's what you were inferring.

Yugo:
You are talking about a Niche market. To some, the Yugo may be appealing and to others, not so much. Many weapons and items in the game are rare but aren't neccessarily worth much. Supply and demand both contribute to price. There just isn't enough demand for the Yugo.

I live and breath Capitalism not because its forced on me but because it appeals to me. If you want a game where you are given everything and can obtain everything, then MMORPG is the wrong genre for you. Try Warcraft 3 or many of the available console games.

a noob with a collectors sword, and a noob with a crystalline sword, is still a newb.
if you think you need to be wealthy in order to function properly, you clearly do not know what you are doing.

Where did anyone say that you have to be wealthy to play the game? I think the only people who are saying this are the rich traders opposed to the salvage options.

Do your posts ever make any sort of a point? Or do you just do it to satisfy your trolling urges?

Why is it that people think salvaged inscriptions(if that turns out to be the case) will be expensive? Wouldn't you be able to get an unlimited supply by salvaging items from any ol Weaponsmith,for about 1k each?

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Hai_Jeling

If you put a mod on a collector's item, it can not be salvaged back off. Thus, why would you think you can craft / collector item something and get an inherent mod off it?

No carnivore, you cant salvage anything from crafted/collectors.

"Weapons crafted by weaponsmiths can be salvaged (unlike collector weapons)."

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Weaponsmith

Im sure Anet isnt going to make 15^50 being salvaged from crafted items.. thats just extreme.

Interesting how your side always resorts to the "Go play WoW or another game" argument, yet when I tell you the same thing, I am considered a troll. The purpose of my statement was for you to realize that the game doesn't revolve around your play style.

Perhaps we need to start a poll to prove this, but I tend to think that those in favor of inscriptions are typically the more casual players who provide much less benefit to Anet than the hardcore players do (Not saying everyone is, but in general). I own two copies of prophecies standard, one copy of prophecies collectors edition, one copy of factions collectors edition, six additional character slots, and have preordered Nightfall collectors edition. As long as the game doesn't go down hill, then I will be buying future expansions. I dare say that casual players are less loyal and less likely to continue buying chapters and probably invest much less than the typical hardcore player. Why Anet would choose to listen to this crowd is beyond me.

So far, I see very few good arguments on your side of the table. I will categorize the pro-inscriptionists into three categories and state my reasons as to why their arguments are unsound.

1. For those touting the argument of fairness. Greens and collector weapons already have max stats and are easily obtainable by even the most casual players. In under a month of playing, even a new player can obtain max gear. Anet has already created a level playing field without the need to grind.

2. For those that want unique or different looking skins. Use weapons that are either have higher requirements than 8 or that have damage mods other than 15^50 (15stance, 15enchanted, 14^50, etc.). These are faily cheap as well and you should have no problem obtaining them on a casual player's budget.

3. For those that want both the rarer or sought after skins, low requirements on your weapons, and 15^50 damage modifiers. I've got news for you. If you are that picky about your weapons then you aren't a casual player and don't have the mindset of a casual player. You are those that want everything but not willing to put effort into it. You want these weapons for the same reason that you accuse my side of wanting them for. It is for your own vanity and selfishness. You want to be "leet" and think that a special skin for a weapon is going to give you that feeling. The thing you fail to see is that once everything is made easy to obtain, the excitement of owning those weapons will be gone. You can deny it and state your noble intentions all you want, but it is true. If you've somehow managed to convince yourself otherwise, then you will soon realize that it is true if and when the inscriptions come to pass as we think they will. Despite your best efforts to feel "leet" you will still get beat both in pvp and pve by those who put a lot of effort into the game.

just for the sake of clarification (because unlike some people *cough* lovitar *cough* i dont like putting words in others' mouths) was that saying wink and i do know what we are talking about, or do not?

also; i dont "grind" never have, never will. its booring, and reliant on luck; i'd rather rely on ability.

The difference is that GW isn't advertised as a MMORPG, and you're telling people to play a game besides GW if they don't like MMORPGs.

Perhaps your poll could include the numbers of so-called "casual" players drawn in by Anets design choices versus "hardcore" players with more than one copy. Statistics are fun.

Your side of the argument never seems to put forth an argument as to why work should be required to have a variety of skins available with desirable mods, other than "gee, I got nothin' left to do."

The fact that you think everyone wants "rare" skins in order to make themselves feel "leet" is more a reflection of your own attitude than anything else, and it's really pretty sad. Are you so lacking in esteem that you won't feel "leet" anymore once everyone has your favorite skins? It seems that many (not all) anti-inscriptionists just boil down to selfish children who care more about how others see them.

Maybe people want certain skins because they like they way they look, and like to see their character wield them. Maybe actually playing the game appeals more to them than working on a game, and it would be nice to have their play experience enhanced by a cool skin. Maybe people buy Lamborghinis because they actually like the car, and they're not simply showing off to their neighbors. I can see how these things might not occur to someone with such an immature and egocentric attitude, but please consider them.

I'm sorry that you misunderstood my meaning behind quoting the Konami code. The intent was the show the ease of a game when using a code. Many of those on your side are in favor of a game where everything is easily obtainable. I realize that Guild Wars has many unique attributes in the MMORPG field. It was designed so that grind, trading, and farming was not essential to be competitive in the game. Too many take this to mean that everything should be attainable with little or no effort. Rare drops and various skins of armors and weapons were specifically put into the game to cater to those that wanted to go the extra mile. To reward the devoted gamers.

Are any of the pro-inscriptionists big HA'ers? If so, how would you feel if all of a sudden, fame was awarded in RA and TA? Someone who doesn't participate in HA a lot might use the argument that emotes should be available to everyone and that only those that grind away using fotm builds are those that obtain emotes. I'm sorry, but this argument is just as rediculous as the arguments of the pro-inscriptionists. There needs to be incentives in the game. Equal opportunity = good. Forced equality = bad.

So having a rare skin with good mods makes the game easier? No. Is getting a good drop a challenging? No, it's a matter of luck. Is farming challenging? Maybe to a point, but once you've got it down, it's a matter of time thrown in, isn't it?

I meant of course that you and wink DO know what are you talking about.
And people like lovitar annoy the hell out of me with their "get everything quick, complete the game, put it on the shelf and go doing something else till next chapter comes" approach. As it's totally against the nature of Guild Wars, against the reason i choose this game. And we can be sure Anet doensn't want us to stop playing and do something else - they gave us plenty of things to do ingame after completing the storyline, like pvp, many different titles to max, continously changing the game and plenty of fun event to bring people back to the game, repeatable high lvl areas and obviously hunting for rare vanity items.
I have to repeat myself again, that completely destroying one of those long-game-life aspects (hunting for rare vanity items) will have a bad long term effect on the game, no matter if many many players will be happy to see the update at the beginning.

I solo'ed the FoW wailing forest and beach for more than 2/3 of my shards for my ranger FoW armor.
I have solo'ed UW (pre AOE nerf) and two man farmed with both 55/SS and trapping.
I have solo'ed a variety of bosses in factions for their greens.
I have gone with groups to the elite missions in factions to obtain rare weapons.
I have solo'ed a big variety of enemies throughout Tyria and Cantha with my warrior, ranger, monk, ele, mesmer, and necro.
I have been been on over 300 chest runs in FoW with pugs, by myself, and with several Pryd members.

How many players in Guild Wars can say the same things? True, you do have to include time into the equation with a bit of luck. But eventually, time and effort do reward you. Its proposterous to leave time out of the equation. Of course time is a neccessary ingredient if you want to obtain everything in the game. With all the time I've invested into GW, there are still many things that I haven't done and weapons and armors I haven't obtained. I like this though as it means there is still more than I can accomplish.

QFT. Now if only we could convince everyone of the shortsighted views held by pro-inscriptionists.

edit: sorry for the double post.

Very good, I applaud and respect your accomplishments. But does other people being able to buy those items for cheaper negate those accomplishments? Does making those items available for a lower price keep you from continuing to collect drops on your own?

If you're obtaining these items all through combat I don't see why you have a problem with inscriptions, as long as there is no drop increase (nothing like that is part of the inscription system). You have done things to be proud of, why are you so focused on other players' virtual possessions?

Exact-bleeping-Ly, except that I'd have to say, inherently perfect rare vanity items. the issue at hand is not as much simpyl skin and req, but skin req and inherent mod.

I know I'm certainly not the only one who would rather play something else than be faced with mind-numbing farming for hours. Fortunately, I've found many, many other things to extend the life of the game that don't hinge on collecting things. You get all condescending and say to me that "the game doesn't revolve around my playing style," and then act as though what you do with your time should be what everyone aspires to do.

Unforunately, I did not obtain the majority of my weapons through my own farming. I've had to sell and buy in order to obtain what I want. An auction house would have made this a lot easier, but thats another issue.

Yes, I do have a problem with people obtaining items with ease when I took so much time and effort to obtain them. Mind if I use a real world example? What if you worked your butt off in a class all semester in order to get a good grade but then some other individual slacked off the whole semester and received the same grade. You still got the good grade so whats the problem? The problem is that it is simply unfair. Had you known in advance that you could spend much less time studying, then you might have used that time for dating, socializing with friends, working and earning money, or playing Guild Wars Don't give me the argument that the student that worked hard still gained knowledge from the class that the other didn't. We all know that most of what we learn from University level classes will soon be forgotten unless its directly applicable to our career path. The main reason for secondary education is for that piece of paper that says you know something, not for the random knowledge you obtain through GE's.

Maybe for every 5 accounts they sell to you, they sell 10k accounts to casual players?

And can you point me at the green or collector weapon with a 15^50 butterfly skin? 15% enchant Flamberge? 15 stance Falchion? No? Thats because THEY DON'T EXIST!
The odds of having a weapon drop for you with the skin you are after in the stats you want are infintessimal. My font of wisdom/expert treasure hunter titles and lack of an axe that I like is testament to that.

Given the choice between playing missions/farming/chest running for another 3500 hrs and have to deal with the "no noob offerz" crowd, I'll pick farming anyday. Trading is not an option for people who play gw for relaxation after a stressful day at the office -We're too busy actually playing the game.

Many of the traders on this thread don't seem to realise that "the casual gamer" doesn't want to ruin their relaxation time having to talk to you.

Wrong again. I couldn't give a toss how rare or leet something is - the fact that a 15/-5 longsword is on my most wanted list is testament to this. I only ever step into an instance with 3 other people, if everyone else in gw had the same weapon as me it wouldn't make one iota of diffence because I don't see them and they don't see me. What you don't seem to realise is that a character is an avatar. They represent players in the game world and as such they need to be customisable.

The state of things at the moment is that if spend your time playing instead of camping in towns it is impossible to get your avatars to look the way you want, not matter how much effort you put in.

Thats where inscriptions come in - Now I can go out and kill some griffons for a white longsword, rip the inscription 15/-5 off that ugly fellblade and I'll finally have a sword that goes with my adreno-build armour so I can go back doing redoing missions and exploring like I want to.