Is anyone else worried about the new salvage options?
manitoba1073
yes u missed 1 type of ppl against the inscriptions.,
the ones such as me see that prices wont fall but go up and all the new casual players wont ever get anything good cheap anymore. unless you guys that are for this are voluntaring handing out goodies for the rest of the time you are on GW.
its not about the individuals.
we need a list of current weapons placed here in this thread and when inscriptions happens another one and compare the prices.
such as like this
u can get a gladius req8 15^50 right now for about 5-10k, easily
after inscriptions if u can even get the gladius anymore with the 15^50 will be a minimum of 50k is my guess.
yeap i guess i can see how that will be good for the casual players. ofcourse they could get lucky and find what they need to make that, doing normal play. or yes thats right forced grind. really sounds like a wonderfull idea for the casual player now doesnt it. it will not eliminate grind at all, infact it will increase the so called grind you all despise. hope you all really enjoy the idea of inscriptions after wards.
most of the people that is for inscriptions wont hurt them at all either. cause you mostly have what you need to go about it alrdy anyways, its about the new players that dont. so much for the whole casual player extra customization. like ive said before its a great idea but it needs to be done the right way.
the ones such as me see that prices wont fall but go up and all the new casual players wont ever get anything good cheap anymore. unless you guys that are for this are voluntaring handing out goodies for the rest of the time you are on GW.
its not about the individuals.
we need a list of current weapons placed here in this thread and when inscriptions happens another one and compare the prices.
such as like this
u can get a gladius req8 15^50 right now for about 5-10k, easily
after inscriptions if u can even get the gladius anymore with the 15^50 will be a minimum of 50k is my guess.
yeap i guess i can see how that will be good for the casual players. ofcourse they could get lucky and find what they need to make that, doing normal play. or yes thats right forced grind. really sounds like a wonderfull idea for the casual player now doesnt it. it will not eliminate grind at all, infact it will increase the so called grind you all despise. hope you all really enjoy the idea of inscriptions after wards.
most of the people that is for inscriptions wont hurt them at all either. cause you mostly have what you need to go about it alrdy anyways, its about the new players that dont. so much for the whole casual player extra customization. like ive said before its a great idea but it needs to be done the right way.
sumrtym
Ok, actually, I made a comment about all the throwing around doing the same mission in PVE isn't fun, only farming for items in PVE after you have finished the game. That's my response to that: I enjoy helping others. So don't go off on me for answering your own "there's nothing to do if you take this away". (invalid to begin with cause you STILL have to find / buy the skins / mods).
Second, ya, I think if you stand around in a town as an assasin to "help" when everyone for TWO HOURS is asking for a monk / mm, you don't exactly get to count that as "no one wanted my help, I tried".
Third, stop acting selfish in your arguments against it unless you want to be seen as that way.
Oh, and by the way manitoba, this WILL increase the amount of items since now any low req non-perfect will be open for modded. Greater supply equals lower price. And 15% dmg mods are NOT that rare either, but finding them not on req 10 to 13 is fairly. Again, increased amounts available. And I'll be the first to say, if I get my items put together I want (which are more shields / wands / staves than warrior / ranger weapons, although got some of those too), I'll be handing out any rares or mods I get to anyone who wants cause I'll already have the items I want in the game.
Second, ya, I think if you stand around in a town as an assasin to "help" when everyone for TWO HOURS is asking for a monk / mm, you don't exactly get to count that as "no one wanted my help, I tried".
Third, stop acting selfish in your arguments against it unless you want to be seen as that way.
Oh, and by the way manitoba, this WILL increase the amount of items since now any low req non-perfect will be open for modded. Greater supply equals lower price. And 15% dmg mods are NOT that rare either, but finding them not on req 10 to 13 is fairly. Again, increased amounts available. And I'll be the first to say, if I get my items put together I want (which are more shields / wands / staves than warrior / ranger weapons, although got some of those too), I'll be handing out any rares or mods I get to anyone who wants cause I'll already have the items I want in the game.
arcanemacabre
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitoba1073
like ive said before its a great idea but it needs to be done the right way.
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So wait, are you for it, or against it? Since none of us know how it's going to work, and you yourself are saying it's a great idea if done right, isn't that being for 'the idea'?
I'm pretty sure everyone here that's "for inscriptions" are only for it if it's done right. The question is, what's the right way, and more importantly, what way is Anet actually implementing this?
Some people have come up with some great ideas, which I am all for all of them. Ideas such as: automatically customizing the item you apply the inscription to, or only being able to apply it to a customized item; or changing the rarity color of the item to some now-unused color like red; or having the inscription be an NPC-only applied feature, that you have to pay a large sum to use.
Everyone is just getting all worked up over a feature that we don't know how it will work. It's a new feature, and I see it being just as likely that it's done in a completely new way than we're used to (as current salvage kits are), as it is being done the same way.
I'll repeat myself, again: Wait and see. We shouldn't be arguing over assumptions and speculation. We should be offering ideas of how we would like this feature to work, because feedback always helps. Pointing fingers and name calling doesn't. (Just to be clear, this isn't directed at anyone in particular, as I myself have been involved to some extent, just making a statement)
EDIT: Just want to add, manitoba, I think both of us are beginning to equalize a bit in our views. That's always a good thing in a discussion.
Mordakai
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitoba1073
yes u missed 1 type of ppl against the inscriptions.,
u can get a gladius req8 15^50 right now for about 5-10k, easily after inscriptions if u can even get the gladius anymore with the 15^50 will be a minimum of 50k is my guess. . |
In your example above: Why would the price go up?
Before Inscriptions, the only way you could get a Gladius req 8 15^50 was by finding one by chance.
After Inscriptions, all you need to do is find a req 8 Gladius (with any mod), and slap a 15^50 Inscription on it.
Now, maybe the 15^50 will be expensive at first, but as more people "salvage" them off non-max, high req skins, they will be more common and the price will drop.
Worst case scenario, the price of a Gladius req 8 15^50 should stay the same, because they will keep dropping the same.
(well, I guess truly worst-case scenario: We're all wrong, and prices on 15^50 Inscrips shoot through the roof. In that case, we're back where we started: there's always Crafters and Collectors! LOL)
EDIT: Excellent post, arcanemacabre. I'm all for trying to make Inscriptions as palatable as possible. Color changing is fine, customization brings up the off-hand question, but I'm not opposed to the idea. I'm not planning on selling Inscribed weapons, and in any case, you could still sell the Inscription later. Customization is a small price to pay for this kind of flexibility.
Two April Mornings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
EDIT: Excellent post, arcanemacabre. I'm all for trying to make Inscriptions as palatable as possible. Color changing is fine, customization brings up the off-hand question, but I'm not opposed to the idea. I'm not planning on selling Inscribed weapons, and in any case, you could still sell the Inscription later. Customization is a small price to pay for this kind of flexibility.
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arcanemacabre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
EDIT: Excellent post, arcanemacabre. I'm all for trying to make Inscriptions as palatable as possible. Color changing is fine, customization brings up the off-hand question, but I'm not opposed to the idea. I'm not planning on selling Inscribed weapons, and in any case, you could still sell the Inscription later. Customization is a small price to pay for this kind of flexibility.
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winkgood
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rok
There is no fallacy ... We know this will affect the market. We don't care. Like I said, I don't trade, so this will benefit me greatly. I can put my own weapons together now. I used to merch any non perfect weapon, now I save them if max dmg/low req/max mod so I can salvage and piece together myself. The casual gamer ftw.
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Not only do you not care about others in the game but your side plain and simply does not care about any sort of economy in Guild Wars. I can't count the number of posts I've read where people give their reason for favoring inscriptions as something along the lines of "I don't wan't to have to trade/deal with others." The whole idea of an economy is that there is a market for trade amongst the citizens. A completely self sufficient system where everyone does everything for themselves is no different than primitive caveman style living.
The fact that your side opposes trade, interaction, and working together to obtain things goes against the interactive nature of the game. Guild Wars is not a single player game. It was not meant to be played alone. Why can't you get this through your heads? If you don't like the current system, then you should continue to petition Anet for an auction house and better trading systems. I'm all for an auction house as it would remove some of the artificial inflation for high end items. Maybe an auction house is the answer or maybe there are better ways to improve the current system. All I known is that the answer is not to dumb down the game so that everyone can be obtain everything by themselves with ease.
manitoba1073
sumrtym..Oh, and by the way manitoba, this WILL increase the amount of items since now any low req non-perfect will be open for modded. Greater supply equals lower price. And 15% dmg mods are NOT that rare either, but finding them not on req 10 to 13 is fairly. Again, increased amounts available
no it does not increase supply, come on we know what people will do.
they will dump to merchants anything they dont see to make money. less supply is the result, so if most people see tha GPB make the most money we'll they will dump the rest and salvage what they can to make perfect GPB. thus reducing supply.
Mordakai
actually u can gert gladius in any dist not just by finding them they sell for around 5-10k right now. why would price go up. because the inscriptions,
that is if you will be able to get one after the update. because again most ppl will salvage the 15^50 off and merchant the gladius or save the salv kit and sell it for the price of the inscription,
arcanemacabre
So wait, are you for it, or against it? Since none of us know how it's going to work, and you yourself are saying it's a great idea if done right, isn't that being for 'the idea'?
i have never said i was against it. i have always said its a great idea but if its done wrong it will be very very bad. and gave quite a few examples as how to do it right.
as things stand right now, we alrdy have a low probablity of getting any golds from chests period the chance is so low of any decent thing. no the 15^50 are not common period on any kind of things, sorry to dissapoint some of you. if you are one of the lucky few to find alot grats to you as ive been playing 16 months and can count on both hands all the 15^50 weapons ive found. and thats a lot of fishing(farming) done
lets see what anet has done previously shall we.
1. locked chests did that help the casual gamer nope. was it a good idea yeap
2. removed the no key chests ie dreadnaughts chests did it help the casual gamer, nope again, infact in made more things more expensive. good idea nope
3. collectors and greens did it help the casaul gamer sure did. good idea yeap
4. increase the drop rate and made useless abs rune did it help the casual gamer nope was it a good idea nope
now anets done alot of great things that went good, but this is one of those that if they dont do right the first time, it could well be end game for anet. as it will lose what they are trying to do. capture the so called casual gamers. word of mouth is a powerfull thing in the gaming business.
and i also figured we would have heard from gaile or anet by now about this as i usually ask where are they, if this wasnt a big deal explain the 1000+ posts here.
so here i go again
GAILE OR ALEX TELL US ABOUT THIS PLZZZ
no it does not increase supply, come on we know what people will do.
they will dump to merchants anything they dont see to make money. less supply is the result, so if most people see tha GPB make the most money we'll they will dump the rest and salvage what they can to make perfect GPB. thus reducing supply.
Mordakai
actually u can gert gladius in any dist not just by finding them they sell for around 5-10k right now. why would price go up. because the inscriptions,
that is if you will be able to get one after the update. because again most ppl will salvage the 15^50 off and merchant the gladius or save the salv kit and sell it for the price of the inscription,
arcanemacabre
So wait, are you for it, or against it? Since none of us know how it's going to work, and you yourself are saying it's a great idea if done right, isn't that being for 'the idea'?
i have never said i was against it. i have always said its a great idea but if its done wrong it will be very very bad. and gave quite a few examples as how to do it right.
as things stand right now, we alrdy have a low probablity of getting any golds from chests period the chance is so low of any decent thing. no the 15^50 are not common period on any kind of things, sorry to dissapoint some of you. if you are one of the lucky few to find alot grats to you as ive been playing 16 months and can count on both hands all the 15^50 weapons ive found. and thats a lot of fishing(farming) done
lets see what anet has done previously shall we.
1. locked chests did that help the casual gamer nope. was it a good idea yeap
2. removed the no key chests ie dreadnaughts chests did it help the casual gamer, nope again, infact in made more things more expensive. good idea nope
3. collectors and greens did it help the casaul gamer sure did. good idea yeap
4. increase the drop rate and made useless abs rune did it help the casual gamer nope was it a good idea nope
now anets done alot of great things that went good, but this is one of those that if they dont do right the first time, it could well be end game for anet. as it will lose what they are trying to do. capture the so called casual gamers. word of mouth is a powerfull thing in the gaming business.
and i also figured we would have heard from gaile or anet by now about this as i usually ask where are they, if this wasnt a big deal explain the 1000+ posts here.
so here i go again
GAILE OR ALEX TELL US ABOUT THIS PLZZZ
winkgood
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
EDIT: Excellent post, arcanemacabre. I'm all for trying to make Inscriptions as palatable as possible. Color changing is fine, customization brings up the off-hand question, but I'm not opposed to the idea. I'm not planning on selling Inscribed weapons, and in any case, you could still sell the Inscription later. Customization is a small price to pay for this kind of flexibility.
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I've actually thought about this before and its not a bad idea. Off the top of my head, there would need to be three things done to an inscription modded weapon in order that inscriptions do not destroy the economy for rare items in the game. Two of those you've mentioned.
1. Customization (this includes shields and offhands)
2. A color change (brown, bright yellow, dark blue, or some other color that hasn't been used). I believe there was a separate color in D2 for crafted weapons (orange?).
3. A slight name change. Eg- Zealous Zodiac Sword of Defense ---> Inscribed Zealous Zodiac Sword of Defense.
Comments?
arcanemacabre
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkgood
1. Customization (this includes shields and offhands)
2. A color change (brown, bright yellow, dark blue, or some other color that hasn't been used). I believe there was a separate color in D2 for crafted weapons (orange?). 3. A slight name change. Eg- Zealous Zodiac Sword of Defense ---> Inscribed Zealous Zodiac Sword of Defense. Comments? |
cellardweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkgood
...
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What the people sharing my viewpoint do care about is GUILD WARS.
What makes guildwars a great game is that unlike any other online rpg is that you can choose who you interact with. Guildwars is the only game in its genre where you can sit down after work with a glass of wine and a few good friends and have [b]a leisurely game in a friendly environment[b] without ever having to deal with ever having to see all the locked-in-their-parents-basement losers that inhabit the internet. To date this has been true for every aspect of the game except skins.
Without inscriptions, a player does not have the choice to play GW with friends and still experience all the content in the game.
With inscriptions, you will still have the choice to play the trading game and still experience all the content of the game.
arcanemacabre
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
You're right - I don't give flying you-know-what about “the economy” or “the community” - These are artificial constructs of your own viewpoint. With or without inscriptions, there’ll still be people who want to play stockmarket games and they’ll continue to exist and you’ll still be able to hoard all the gold you want.
What the people sharing my viewpoint do care about is GUILD WARS. What makes guildwars a great game is that unlike any other online rpg is that you can choose who you interact with. Guildwars is the only game in its genre where you can sit down after work with a glass of wine and a few good friends and have [b]a leisurely game in a friendly environment[b] without ever having to deal with ever having to see all the locked-in-their-parents-basement losers that inhabit the internet. To date this has been true for every aspect of the game except skins. Without inscriptions, a player does not have the choice to play GW with friends and still experience all the content in the game. With inscriptions, you will still have the choice to play the trading game and still experience all the content of the game. |
Besides, as has been said before, your point simply validates the need for an Auction House, not Inscriptions. Face it, despite certain items becomming easier to find with this new feature, doesn't mean you won't have to still trade to get what you want. It simply means there will be more supply of the things everyone wants, thus driving prices down a bit.
I agree with you entirely on the crappy trade system we have now, and completely advocate an Auction House. The less we have to deal with others, the better. Not saying we shouldn't deal with others in-game, just saying it's better to have options.
EDIT: (down below)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
A non-customised weapon is a glorified stick, so no objections there, but there would need to be some advantage to customised sheilds and offhands thought to compensate for the loss of ability to them accross multiple toons.
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cellardweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkgood
1. Customization (this includes shields and offhands)
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edit: attrocious grammer
cellardweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Such hostility!
Besides, as has been said before, your point simply validates the need for an Auction House, not Inscriptions. Face it, despite certain items becomming easier to find with this new feature, doesn't mean you won't have to still trade to get what you want. It simply means there will be more supply of the things everyone wants, thus driving prices down a bit. I agree with you entirely on the crappy trade system we have now, and completely advocate an Auction House. The less we have to deal with others, the better. Not saying we shouldn't deal with others in-game, just saying it's better to have options. |
I take the other side and say with inscriptions we wouldn't need an auction house. Every single skin is obtainable in a low req by just playing normally for a couple of nights in the area that they drop. 15% golds only take a few shing jea chests to get - and presto, everything is available without needing the auction house at all.
Yawgmoth
Utter nonsense was written in this post so i just had to respond...
It's not a personal problem but the problem of removing a whole aspect of PvE gameplay that is hunting for cool rare items. And that is just bad, as explained in many many posts of the more-educated anti-inscriptionists in this thread, just read them.
And keeping trying to find perfect golds while inscriptions are around would be simply retarded and nobody would do that, obviously. (unless ofcourse inscripting an item crapifies it by changing its color, changing name and customizing)
Your choice of arguments against inscriptions is really poor, this one is a very bad example, showing that among anti-inscriptionists are also many uneducated people.
It's just as simple as understanding how economies in any game work (and in RL in some extent too). Everyone will be able to make money just the same as before, because the income from 'average gold item drop' will be the same as it's now. It's just that the highest possible value of a gold item drop will be much lower but many of the lesser drops will be worth more.
This is a right argument, as the high-end items will not be high-end anymore, the well deserved rewards for dedicated players will be 'worthless' in that they will be *easily* available to anyone.
Yes, the items will still be perfect and just as useful, but still, the cheap collectors items now are just as useful stat-wise.
Completely destroying the market of rare items as a solution to a horrible trading system isn't a good solution. There will still be tons of WTS / WTB spam everywhere, just different things will be sold. A better trading system is really needed.
And you're right that low req skins and perfect inscriptions will be very easy to get. But this is the biggest problem - imho it will be waaaay too easy to get that perfect anything for everyone. And with everyone having anything they ever wanted after a week, they will get bored quickly and find another game (obviously not everyone, but i speak about the average masses that may leave quick)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Argument against Inscription 1:
"I won't have anything left to do." That sounds like a personal problem, not a problem with Inscriptions. Inscriptions will not change the drop rates of rare perfect weapons, nothing is stopping you from trying to find them instead of using the Inscription method. |
And keeping trying to find perfect golds while inscriptions are around would be simply retarded and nobody would do that, obviously. (unless ofcourse inscripting an item crapifies it by changing its color, changing name and customizing)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Argument against Inscription 2: "Prices will fall, and there will be no way to get 15k armor." Well, first I think that should be the topic of another thread, that in your opinion, 15k armor price is too high. But, just to refute that, my brand new necro has made over 30k in only 30 hours of just playing the game! No farming, no trades, nada. Just merchant sales, missions, quests, and being cheap, cheap, cheap. |
It's just as simple as understanding how economies in any game work (and in RL in some extent too). Everyone will be able to make money just the same as before, because the income from 'average gold item drop' will be the same as it's now. It's just that the highest possible value of a gold item drop will be much lower but many of the lesser drops will be worth more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Argument against Inscription 3: "All my high-end stuff will become worthless and common." No. You will still own your perfect rare weapons. No one can take that away from you. Yes, maybe it will lose some value, but that is the nature of an online game. But it will only be "worthless" if you never valued the item in the first place, and only associated value with a changeable market-driven price. A risky proposition, to be sure. |
Yes, the items will still be perfect and just as useful, but still, the cheap collectors items now are just as useful stat-wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
I take the other side and say with inscriptions we wouldn't need an auction house. Every single skin is obtainable in a low req by just playing normally for a couple of nights in the area that they drop. 15% golds only take a few shing jea chests to get - and presto, everything is available without needing the auction house at all.
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And you're right that low req skins and perfect inscriptions will be very easy to get. But this is the biggest problem - imho it will be waaaay too easy to get that perfect anything for everyone. And with everyone having anything they ever wanted after a week, they will get bored quickly and find another game (obviously not everyone, but i speak about the average masses that may leave quick)
Evls Pwn
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
A non-customised weapon is a glorified stick, I would have objections there. There would need to be some advantage to customised sheilds and offhands to compensate for the loss of ability to use them accross multiple toons.
edit: attrocious grammer |
Evls Pwn
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
15% golds only take a few shing jea chests to get - and presto, everything is available without needing the auction house at all.
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Loviatar
from this thread is why ANET/NCsoft is kicking the high end market in favor of giving the casual player some fun.
casual is who they are after
money not the game
right
some of us like doing those things you hate
no....the new/casual/POOR player can get something NEEDED to play not just wanted to play
see above that everybody can enjoy something needed to play some builds
i am casual so how i look is MORE important NOT LESS
play it my way or go without.............right
right again..........good stuff for you ugly stuff for the poor (YOUR OWN WORDS)
game,set,match
Quote:
The only people that could find this positive are ... forum trolls (aka anet yes boys), NEW people to the game (people with less than a year played) or the casual gamer. |
Quote:
My warrior has 2 sets of armor both with superior absorbs ... crafted when they were 100k+. Anet "increased the drop rate of sup absorb" GG they are worth less if you salvage the armor now. Anet has a history of catering to the "it's not fair" people and dumbing the game down. |
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Those of us that are already rich will be ... yes you guessed it RICH. We are NOT trying to protect our personal wealth but the life of the game. |
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collecting rare/expansive things is the one and only thing I'm actually do in prophecies+factions because playing their quests is boring as hell. No, I'm not playing pvp. |
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Long ago you might not salvage that rune ... Anet fixes this ... net effect is ALL runes drop to almost worthless. |
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Anet decides to increase the drop rate of superior absorb ... net effect is they are worth more sold to merchant than trader. |
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The casual gamer would not care about skin thats the beauty of GW: something for everyone. |
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They have the same right, but they have to work for it. |
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as casual player you do NOT need a beautiful skin, just play with collector's or weapon trader's weapons. |
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edit: oh and there are no beautiful greens: cryst, dwarven, iridescent, eternal, zodiac, ........ and so on |
seut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
(in answer to the argument that 15k will get harder to achieve)
Your choice of arguments against inscriptions is really poor, this one is a very bad example, showing that among anti-inscriptionists are also many uneducated people. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
It's just as simple as understanding how economies in any game work (and in RL in some extent too). Everyone will be able to make money just the same as before, because the income from 'average gold item drop' will be the same as it's now. It's just that the highest possible value of a gold item drop will be much lower but many of the lesser drops will be worth more.
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In this scenario with less valuable average drops fixed price items like 15k armor will be harder to achive.
I'm going to call my university to invalidate my diploma which included a year of economics...
Mordakai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
Utter nonsense was written in this post so i just had to respond...
It's not a personal problem but the problem of removing a whole aspect of PvE gameplay that is hunting for cool rare items. And that is just bad, as explained in many many posts of the more-educated anti-inscriptionists in this thread, just read them. And keeping trying to find perfect golds while inscriptions are around would be simply retarded and nobody would do that, obviously. (unless ofcourse inscripting an item crapifies it by changing its color, changing name and customizing) |
But my point remains regardless: "retarded" or not, you would still have the option to hunt for perfect rare golds, which some people like to do, despite the fact that there are Greens and Collectors that do the same thing. Inscriptions will only give more options to players, not take any options away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
Your choice of arguments against inscriptions is really poor, this one is a very bad example, showing that among anti-inscriptionists are also many uneducated people.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
This is a right argument, as the high-end items will not be high-end anymore, the well deserved rewards for dedicated players will be 'worthless' in that they will be *easily* available to anyone.
Yes, the items will still be perfect and just as useful, but still, the cheap collectors items now are just as useful stat-wise. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
Completely destroying the market of rare items as a solution to a horrible trading system isn't a good solution. There will still be tons of WTS / WTB spam everywhere, just different things will be sold. A better trading system is really needed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
And you're right that low req skins and perfect inscriptions will be very easy to get. But this is the biggest problem - imho it will be waaaay too easy to get that perfect anything for everyone. And with everyone having anything they ever wanted after a week, they will get bored quickly and find another game (obviously not everyone, but i speak about the average masses that may leave quick)
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I really don't get this. Every 6 months you will have new items to farm and trade for. Every 6 months!
If people don't have anything to do in Guild Wars, then take a break. Nothing says you have to play Guild Wars 24/7. Nothing guarantees that each Chapter will provide 6 months of constant, fun activity. (I don't think any game can guarantee that!)
Honestly, I think Anet needs to focus on an entertaining GAME as it's primary goal for each Chapter, the Items and Armor are just frosting on the cake...
seut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
LOL. The "this will ruin the economy for 15k armor" argument has been brought up many times, I'm glad you agree it's a poor one.
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Not taking arguments of other concerned players seriously and laughing at them is very bad style.
(edit: joined two answers)
Mordakai
Quote:
Originally Posted by seut
Thank you for calling me an uneducated moron..
Now valuable imperfect items like req.10 with 14^50 will become valueless. Other items which are worthless now will rise in price, but with a much higher supply, because now merched blank whites or items with unwanted modifiers (19v50, 15vsHexed, etc) will flood the market. I'll doubt the demand will rise that high to compensate the market saturation. In this scenario with less valuable average drops fixed price items like 15k armor will be harder to achive. I'm going to call my university to invalidate my diploma which included a year of economics... |
Two points: I'm living proof you don't need to trade anything to earn 100,000. Yes, it took me a year, but then again, I have less than 500 hours playing time. That's a horrible 200 gold per hour avg. I don't think anyone can do less than that, unless they are actively trying NOT to make money. If I can get 15k armor, anyone can!
(BTW, my Cantha character has a much better rate: He made 1,000 gold per hour just by going through the missions. I think the hours spent in pre-searing sucked my G.P.H. (Gold Per Hour) avg. way down! )
Point 2: You yourself admit you don't know what will happen. Max Req 7 skins (despite mods) could actually go up in value. Maybe Anet will introduce new, super-rare skins. It's all guesswork right now.
seut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Two points: I'm living proof you don't need to trade anything to earn 100,000. Yes, it took me a year, but then again, I have less than 500 hours playing time. That's a horrible 200 gold per hour avg. I don't think anyone can do less than that, unless they are actively trying NOT to make money. If I can get 15k armor, anyone can!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Point 2: You yourself admit you don't know what will happen. Max Req 7 skins (despite mods) could actually go up in value. Maybe Anet will introduce new, super-rare skins. It's all guesswork right now.
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This thread reminds me of the serious concerns against the access to Elite Mission concept in GW:F. Most arguments were wiped away with the statement ''Anet knows what they are doing". Sorry, i don't have blind faith.
Mordakai
Quote:
Originally Posted by seut
Doing all missions & quests and capping all elite skills for a profession takes 60-80hours play time for each campaign. Additional 400hours to get 15k armor isn't considered grind?
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In my case, it was the opposite. I played the game, made 100,000 gold, and wanted to buy something. I chose 15k armor. I did not "grind" for one piece of that gold. (As for my 500 hours, I've deleted several characters, played a little PvP, and I don't know what else. Time flies when you're having fun!)
Oh, and I wanted to apologize for the "LOL". That was directed at Yawgmoth, who basically said I had a poor choice of arguments, when all I was doing was repeating others. It was not directed at you.
Although I do think your argument is flawed, I don't think you're stupid. We can disagree, and still be amicable, I hope.
Sid Soggybottom
It's funny to see the anti-inscriptionists trying to turn this around to say that the people who are for inscriptions are being selfish and only want to benefit themselves.
Even IF that were true, it's still a salvage system that will benefit ALL. Currently, the rich traders want the system to stay the way it is because it ONLY benefits a small percentage of the population, and it just so happens that those who are opposed to inscriptions fall into that small percentage.
Basically what pro-inscriptionists want, still benefits everyone, regardless of the motive.
What the anti-inscriptionists want is the status quo that only a small few should have what the "elite" have.
So please tell me again who is being selfish and only looking out for themselves here?
Even IF that were true, it's still a salvage system that will benefit ALL. Currently, the rich traders want the system to stay the way it is because it ONLY benefits a small percentage of the population, and it just so happens that those who are opposed to inscriptions fall into that small percentage.
Basically what pro-inscriptionists want, still benefits everyone, regardless of the motive.
What the anti-inscriptionists want is the status quo that only a small few should have what the "elite" have.
So please tell me again who is being selfish and only looking out for themselves here?
Abnaxus
I'm wondering what would have happened if the inherent mod salvaging system had been present in GW since its first release.
I'd actually like to know if players who are now against inscriptions would have left the game one month after release, saying they had no interest in a game where there was the possibility to craft every item choosing skin, inherent modifiers, prefix and suffix.
Would GW have had no economy at all if this feature had been always in the game? This sounds quite absurd to me.
Some players see it a huge and devastating feature, now that everybody is used to the current crafting system, which is very poor and limited.
Let's imagine what would have happened if A.net had decided that not only inherent mods were unmodifiable, but also prefixes and suffixes, so that if you wanted a req. 8 15>50 20/20 +30hp fellblade you had to wait that a monster somewhere in the world actually dropped that very item.
Instead of being worth 200-250k, an item like that would have be worth 200-250 million, or simply would have been priceless.
Everything is relative, also in GW.
Game designers made a choice - one amongst several possible ones - to give to some items 2 grades of freedom (sry if this is just a literal translation of a technical term from my language) which are prefix and suffix.
Just think out of the box. This is a game designer's choice, they could have given 1) no possibility at all to modify an item, as well as 2) the possibility to modify the so called inherent mod, as well as 3) the possibility to modify the requirement, as well as 4) the possibility to modify even the damage.
Those who say that pro-inscriptionists are "A.net yes boys" should watch at themselves and realize that at the moment THEY are the yes boys, because they take a single game designer's choice, one among several possible choices, as the ONLY possible choice, as something which constitutes the foundation of the whole game economy, which seems all centered around the fact that inherent mods are unmodifiable.
I'd actually like to know if players who are now against inscriptions would have left the game one month after release, saying they had no interest in a game where there was the possibility to craft every item choosing skin, inherent modifiers, prefix and suffix.
Would GW have had no economy at all if this feature had been always in the game? This sounds quite absurd to me.
Some players see it a huge and devastating feature, now that everybody is used to the current crafting system, which is very poor and limited.
Let's imagine what would have happened if A.net had decided that not only inherent mods were unmodifiable, but also prefixes and suffixes, so that if you wanted a req. 8 15>50 20/20 +30hp fellblade you had to wait that a monster somewhere in the world actually dropped that very item.
Instead of being worth 200-250k, an item like that would have be worth 200-250 million, or simply would have been priceless.
Everything is relative, also in GW.
Game designers made a choice - one amongst several possible ones - to give to some items 2 grades of freedom (sry if this is just a literal translation of a technical term from my language) which are prefix and suffix.
Just think out of the box. This is a game designer's choice, they could have given 1) no possibility at all to modify an item, as well as 2) the possibility to modify the so called inherent mod, as well as 3) the possibility to modify the requirement, as well as 4) the possibility to modify even the damage.
Those who say that pro-inscriptionists are "A.net yes boys" should watch at themselves and realize that at the moment THEY are the yes boys, because they take a single game designer's choice, one among several possible choices, as the ONLY possible choice, as something which constitutes the foundation of the whole game economy, which seems all centered around the fact that inherent mods are unmodifiable.
seut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
What the anti-inscriptionists want is the status quo that only a small few should have what the "elite" have.
So please tell me again who is being selfish and only looking out for themselves here? |
I'm against inscriptions, if they only work for weapons (and the PCGamer article only mentioned weapons, if i remember correctly).
I care about this topic, because i'm a guild leader and most of the members are casual 3nights a week player.
Please don't lump together the arguments opposite to your view to make them easier to attack for you.
Mordakai
Quote:
Originally Posted by seut
Yes, we all don't know what will happen. That's why i don't understand the reasoning of many pro-inscriptionists that the change will be all-out good for casual players (btw. none of us posting here is part of that group).
This thread reminds me of the serious concerns against the access to Elite Mission concept in GW:F. Most arguments were wiped away with the statement ''Anet knows what they are doing". Sorry, i don't have blind faith. |
Now, as for whether I'm "casual" or not: I'm all for defining terms, so what would you call a casual player (hours per night played), and I'll tell you if I meet your criteria or not.
I think defining "hardcore" would be beneficial as well to the discussion.
Tijger
For those who dont get it, Anet is a business and therefore making the game more attractive for casual players is a win/win proposition for them. All the rest is kinda irrelevant and imho, thats how it should be.
Buying a game doesnt give you the right the decide how it should develop, if Anet wants to attract more casual gamers then you can either live with that or leave.
Buying a game doesnt give you the right the decide how it should develop, if Anet wants to attract more casual gamers then you can either live with that or leave.
Abnaxus
Quote:
Originally Posted by seut
This thread reminds me of the serious concerns against the access to Elite Mission concept in GW:F. Most arguments were wiped away with the statement ''Anet knows what they are doing". Sorry, i don't have blind faith.
|
With Elite Missions, A.net made a bad game design choice, because for the first time they limited the access to some end game areas to players belonging to a so called "elite" of players, those belonging to an alliance of "elite factions farmers".
The severe mistake was partially mitigated by the "taxy" system, but despite this many hardcore players I know have no interest in elite missions and continue to play UW, FoW, SF, ToPK since they are not willing to beg for an access to someone they don't know who on earth is, and has the only prerogative to belong to a faction grinders group.
Hopefully they've learned the lesson and realized that any elitism in game is dangerous for the game itself.
seut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Now, as for whether I'm "casual" or not: I'm all for defining terms, so what would you call a casual player (hours per night played), and I'll tell you if I meet your criteria or not.
|
Mordakai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abnaxus
This is a good point, especially for pro-inscriptionist.
With Elite Missions, A.net made a bad game design choice, because for the first time they limited the access to some end game areas to players belonging to a so called "elite" of players, those belonging to an alliance of "elite factions farmers". The severe mistake was partially mitigated by the "taxy" system, but despite this many hardcore players I know have no interest in elite missions and continue to play UW, FoW, SF, ToPK since they are not willing to beg for an access to someone they don't know who on earth is, and has the only prerogative to belong to a faction grinders group. Hopefully they've learned the lesson and realized that any elitism in game is dangerous for the game itself. |
The problem with Inscriptions is it effect two things:
One is Inherent Mods, which I think most agree are NOT vanity, and should be available to all.
The other is Rare Skins, which some people think of as the equivalent of FoW armor, and has no game effect whatsoever.
These ideas sound good to me:
Include Inscriptions, but also include FoW Items for the "hardcore" player to strive for.
Limitations on Inscriptions like customization of Inscribed items, color change, etc., to keep value of vanity items.
In short, I really don't care what concessions Anet makes to keep the "Elite" players happy, as long as in the end, Inscriptions deliver in getting rare mods into the hands of casual players.
I also think an Inscriptions Merchant will be required for maximum availability of Inscriptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seut
Using a medium other than the game itself like a chat or this forum to talk about the game ends the casualness in my perception. (yes, posting here disqualifies you as a casual player in my view )
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Well, in my view, if you play an hour or less a night you are probably "casual" no matter how much time during your day job you spend on Guru.
Of course, as luck would have it, I'm just shy of being casual: 1.09 hours a day playing Guild Wars.
Evls Pwn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
It's funny to see the anti-inscriptionists trying to turn this around to say that the people who are for inscriptions are being selfish and only want to benefit themselves.
Even IF that were true, it's still a salvage system that will benefit ALL. Currently, the rich traders want the system to stay the way it is because it ONLY benefits a small percentage of the population, and it just so happens that those who are opposed to inscriptions fall into that small percentage. Basically what pro-inscriptionists want, still benefits everyone, regardless of the motive. What the anti-inscriptionists want is the status quo that only a small few should have what the "elite" have. So please tell me again who is being selfish and only looking out for themselves here? |
Mordakai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evls Pwn
Wow, All youv'e really just stated is that you are upset because you can't have your pet crystalline like all the other boys and girls...
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And what's wrong with everyone having a crystalline, anyway? Would it shatter your ego?
Loviatar
A BREAK FOR SOMETHING WE ACTUALLY KNOW ABOUT
GUARANTEED SALVAGE
CHOICE OF SALVAGE
DOESNT DAMAGE WEAPON
COMPARE THIS WITH THE RESULTS OF GUARANTEED RUNE SALVAGE
and i got an extra slot for my second PERMANENT PRESEAR character (she likes the scenery)
GUARANTEED SALVAGE
CHOICE OF SALVAGE
DOESNT DAMAGE WEAPON
COMPARE THIS WITH THE RESULTS OF GUARANTEED RUNE SALVAGE
and i got an extra slot for my second PERMANENT PRESEAR character (she likes the scenery)
DeathByAmor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Uh, no he didn't.
And what's wrong with everyone having a crystalline, anyway? Would it shatter your ego? |
Mordakai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
A BREAK FOR SOMETHING WE ACTUALLY KNOW ABOUT
GUARANTEED SALVAGE CHOICE OF SALVAGE DOESNT DAMAGE WEAPON COMPARE THIS WITH THE RESULTS OF GUARANTEED RUNE SALVAGE |
I'd like to see anyone argue against guaranteed salvage. I think everyone has been asking for this for awhile now.
The fact is doesn't destroy the weapon is just Gravy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
and i got an extra slot for my second PERMANENT PRESEAR character (she likes the scenery)
|
Go figure. (I'm planning on making another pre-sear character soon, I deleted her to make room for the Nightfall preview).
Evls Pwn
I don't see the problem people have with grinding. I enjoy it. I enjoy doing the UW. It's fun! It's as much a part of the game as anything else is...
winkgood
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
It's funny to see the anti-inscriptionists trying to turn this around to say that the people who are for inscriptions are being selfish and only want to benefit themselves.
Even IF that were true, it's still a salvage system that will benefit ALL. Currently, the rich traders want the system to stay the way it is because it ONLY benefits a small percentage of the population, and it just so happens that those who are opposed to inscriptions fall into that small percentage. Basically what pro-inscriptionists want, still benefits everyone, regardless of the motive. What the anti-inscriptionists want is the status quo that only a small few should have what the "elite" have. So please tell me again who is being selfish and only looking out for themselves here? |
Pro inscriptionists aren't against other players having rare items. But we are against them coming for free or with ease. This is both unfair to those that have obtained them already and destructive to the economy and the game as it lowers the motivation of players to play the PVE portion of the game beyond the missions.
I'm starting to see a double standard amongst the pro-inscriptionists. Many have said how they want to be able to obtain all skins with any mods and that this is considered "fun" for them. At the same time, the pro-inscriptionists ridicule the anti-inscriptionists for spending time to obtain all the various skins with rare mods. So the end goal is the same for both pro and anti inscriptionists, but the pro-inscriptionists are somehow wrong because they like the idea of putting effort into something. What a lazy attitude. Don't give me the argument about not wanting to "work" in a game. Name a decent video game that doesn't require work to excel and achieve everything in it. Some of you have tried to compare work at a job with work in a game. They aren't the same thing. There are no pressures of getting fired or of not meeting a deadline in a game. If it is work then it is what I consider to be "relaxing work".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Hmm, interesting take. However, i don't think any Elitism is bad, as long as it has no effect on the game per se. (15k armor, FoW armor are prime examples).
The problem with Inscriptions is it effect two things: One is Inherent Mods, which I think most agree are NOT vanity, and should be available to all. The other is Rare Skins, which some people think of as the equivalent of FoW armor, and has no game effect whatsoever. |
-1.5K armor is easily obtainable, has perfect stats, and matching functionality to more expensive armors.
-Collectors weapons and greens have perfect inherent mods, max damage, and matching functionality to the rare, more expensive skins.
-15K and FoW armor. Same stats as the cheaper version. The only difference is looks (in most cases it looks better than 1.5) and as such requires more work to obtain.
-Rare skins with rare damage modifiers. Same stats as the cheaper version. The only difference is looks and as such requires more work to obtain.
i don't think any Elitism is bad, as long as it has no effect on the game <--What effect do different skins have on the game?
One is Inherent Mods, which I think most agree are NOT vanity, and should be available to all. <--They are available to all in the form of collector items and greens.
edit:
I thought I would take the liberty of giving you some helpful links as to where you can get your perfect 15^50 items.
Crafters with 15^50, 15/-10, 15/-5, +5 nrg weapons:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Sarad
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Manzo
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Honglei_Sun
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Mathilde
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Gertrud
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Theodosus
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Telamon
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Shichiroji
Collectors with them:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/General...aineng_City%29
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/General...vald_Forest%29
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/General...%28Jade_Sea%29
MSecorsky
Inscriptions will allow your regular Joe, like myself, to equip my heroes with top quality weapons cheap by allowing peicemeal mixing and matching. What the "rich" fail to realize is that this doesn't cost them a bloody cent... I wouldn't buy from them in the first place. Probably a minimum of players actually buy items to get them to the upper end of things.
Consider this... pre-inscriptions (now), my necro has a collector Blood staff
(20/20, +5e, +30 health).
Post-inscriptions - he would have had it faster.
This will benefit the vast majority of players the most. This is as it should be.
Consider this... pre-inscriptions (now), my necro has a collector Blood staff
(20/20, +5e, +30 health).
Post-inscriptions - he would have had it faster.
This will benefit the vast majority of players the most. This is as it should be.