Is anyone else worried about the new salvage options?

That's great...let me add that to the list of arguments.

"I'm protecting the casual player from this"
"I'm saving GW from itself"
"I'm saving the development team work"

I think maybe they should stop issuing new chapters. After all, that's a lot of work, and the new skills could just screw everything up, just like heros could too.....

Hmmmm I'm fairly certain that there is not a single example anywhere in this thread where I have ever said anything about "protecting my wealth" or even mentioned my wealth so it's a pretty large assumption on your part that I even have any.

Rather I have stated what I believe to be rational arguments about the negative effects that this new system will have on some of the long term aspects of the game as have many others who have immediately been disregarded by people like you who think they are only concerned with their own personal wealth.
As far as the items that are causing your game-play to suffer so horribly by not having them, If I personally had any interest in having them I would do as I have done with everything else in the game that I have ever wanted and spent my time getting them which from your approach of telling everyone else to get them for you or shut up tells me exactly why you suffer so badly.

Either you honestly have no idea how to get the things you want or just plain and simple think everything should be easy to get if it is a "vanity" item or not.
And no I won't go find these items for you!!! But I assure you that if one of my friends wanted them I would be more than happy to put in the effort to help them get em

You're missing the point, sumrtym...

One poster claimed that it would be too hard to introduce green/collector/crafter items in the game for many of the combinations that are not currently available.

Akhilleus is simply stating that instituting an entirely new inscription system, revising the mechanics on how every item in the game works, is MUCH harder than simply adding several new items with existing skins.

no, what im saying is it would be FAR easier to input the missing mods into collectors than it is to input inscriptions that work without
A: dissolving the economy
B: have a chance of accidentally "deleting" weapons when you try to salvage them
C: any other list of things that could go wrong.

lets not forget that when anet first inputed the material storage, some people's mats started disappearing, anets policy was "we're sorry, but we cant do anythign about it." what do you think would happen if when people go to salvage their 15.50 mods, and the enire weapon just disappears, with no mod being salvaged, or anything. you'd get a lot of pissed off players.

my point was, testing new features is a pain in the ass...adding new options to existing collectors could not possibly take as long as properly coding/testing an entirely new and experimental game feature.

so, logic sais, if the pro-inscriptionists are ONLY in it for the evrsatility of mods; to make every mod available in the form of collectors, crafters and or greens...
but, i also know, this would not stop the pro-inscriptionists. why? because its not actually the mods you NEED, its the skins you WANT.
believe me, i agree with you that its frusttrating that some of these mods are missing from collectors, do you think i LIKE having to wait 8 months to find a gold version of an item i NEED? (and i guarantee you, its harder finding the items than it is affording them)
the answer is: no, i dont enjoy having to search endlessly for missing caster mods.
solution: add them to the collector so they are easier to get.

but again, this will not quell the pro-inscriptionists, because its not the mods most care about, its the skins. there are many ways to accomplish the goal of making mods easily available (even more so than they already are) without tanking gold items, but most pro-inscriptionists wont hear of it, they refuse to comprimise, because they dont WANT comprimise, they want everything, at the cost of nothing.
time and time again the people from my side of the line have proposed mediums that would maintain the market, but make all mods available to players of low means, and time and time again, ahve been shot down with the argument "but, but, but, i want my XXXXX skin!"

but let me ask you this.
who do you think would be the first people to own 8 15.50 crystallines and various other skins, if inscriptions are made available?
answer: already existing wealthy players.

i can assure you, most of the anti-inscriptionists in this thread do NOT have everything they want at the current moment in time...but WOULD if inscriptions are made available...because we're the ones with massive stocks of various items of various skins of various mods of various requirements, sitting in storage in massive quantities. welathy players do not get wealthy by buying everything in sight, they have to pick and choose and compromise between the aspects of their reason, and the aspects of their desire; instead of getting a 15.50 crystalline and bankrupting yourself, you get one thats 14.50, at a more affordable level. you reserve perfect stats for more affordable skins; we would be the FIRST people who have what it is we want, we'd have to spend FAR less time in trade channels getting inscriptions or low-req items of the skins we want in order to mod them, because chances are we already own the items, just not necissarily in damage mods we are fond of. but we may certainly own weapons with perfect damage mods with skins we dont care for, and have no problem salvaging them for inscriptions.
so, if we would be the first people to benifit from inscriptions (and probably those who would benifit MOST from them), not to mention the fact that we'd be making absolutly aggregious profits off of selling the 15.50 mods that we got off weapons we bought for 3-5k over the past year...
then ask yourself, why are we not arguing on your side of the line? well, actually, a few of us are. death by amor, for instance, is in this category. he, to me, has come off as a fairly wealthy player, but not one with the means necissary to get EVERYTHING he wants...but inscriptions will allow him to do so, and so he has allowed his greed to overcome common sense. he has stated that the first thing he will do is apply the mods he wants to the skins he already has, something he cannot currently afford to do.
others of us, have put the personal benifits aside, and seen that it will ruin long-term fringe benifits to the game, along with the shutting down of another possibly entertaining aspect for people we know and others as a whole.

With much greater benefits.

I totally respect you for doing so - it is exceedingly difficult to find people that are willing to forego the trading system and become a "pureist" - one that only takes what the game gives him. I personally follow that exact same ethos for each of my characters until they finish the main storyline - and then I pursue other "goals" in playing the game (at which time I open up the buy/sell possibility).

That being said, I think players like you and I comprise a very small portion of the community. Fissure of Woe armor is a perfect example - it would be almost impossible to accumulate the 1+ million in gold by foregoing the trading system entirely (i.e. you gotta sell your gold items to someone other than the merchant to get more than 1 million gold).

By the way, I really hope that the developers at A-Net have reviewed threads such as these to assess the impact of the potential change. I think some of the pros and cons listed in the thread are very relevant to the "leaked" change, and hopefully they have considered modifications to the system to address some of the concerns.

But that may just be high hopes on my part. Great discussion, by the way! Although this thread is long, anyone that takes the time to read at least some of it can get a nice flavor as to what some of the tension points related to the change are, good or bad.

But FoW is perfectly obtainable. Weapons with the skins you want are not.

BTW, sixdartbart, you're thowing around the assumptions yourself. I've farmed like a madman, and am not any closer to finding the items I seek. I have 3500 hours in game, 4 sets of FoW armor, and countless weapons / greens, but not the ones I want the most.

Again, if these are obtainable realistically, why is it no one can show any to me?

That in itself is the answer and why the inscription system makes sense.

All arguments aside, I still have yet to have an answer regarding what harm there is with me salvaging inscriptions and making the weapons of my choice? It certainly won't hurt the mythical economy; I don't dump gold into that entity anyhow... the only arguments I can see that explain the outrage (by a minority, mind you) is that they fear prices dropping and their personal wealth somehow being diminished. Even the argument about finding rares fails... you can still do that unaffected.

What real harm to the game is there if I salvage inscriptions and create what I want?

i've wanted a r8/9 +30 hp always -2dmg while in a stance or -5(20%) crude/carapace shield for nearly a year..
ive been activly searching for one for 6 months.
affording one is not the issue, of that i can assure you...finding one is.
however, i fully recognize that this is an item i want, with stats i want, with a skin i want and with a requirement i want. i am capable of recognizing that it is something i want. if, on the other hand, i were to need the particular stats i would simply go to kaineg, and craft one for a few thousand gold. no big deal, i'd have it in secconds. but, i am not willing to tank the games economy, and the future replayability of people i know, because of soemthing i want.
if, however, the game lacks crafters with the mods you need then anet should provide them to you via crafter...this keeps guildwars true to its goal; you wouldnt need to farm endless hours to get what you need. but, simentaneously, it would maintain the value, mystique, and rarity of what people want.

The games "economy" will not tank. It will change. It will not tank.

Replayability will be improved. Items once discarded as worthless will have new value for their components. Casual players will be much happier when they can take that fairly crappy Jade Sword they happened to get in a chest, shuffle around the inscriptions and mods, and have something nice. This change will greatly enhance the play of GW's middle and lower classes, which is the vast majority.

Exactly. And why FoW armor is craftable, and not a drop. Inscriptions removes the stupid barrior, and prevents people losing interest / frustration because of the sheer impossibility of finding what they want to make their characters look how they wish under the present system.

BENEFIT without DOWNSIDE.

If you wish to continue looking in your near hopeless quest vs. crafting one after inscriptions, no one is stopping you. Enjoy like you always have.

if you are such an economical expert, then why are you not richer than i am?
the guildwars economy may not blow up in an apocalyptical event, but irreperable damage will almost certainly be done.

my point was that the difference is you have the attitude of "i want what i want, and ill get what i want, damn the consequences, and damn everyone else."
i at least try to look past the personal benifit to see what works as a whole.
if they make inscriptions viable, i'd have the remaining half dozen items i want that i dont already own, inside of appx 30 secconds, but that doesnt matter to me if it ruins the game in the process. i guess thats where we disagree.

Where we disagree is you enjoy searching for something you will never find in any likelihood, whereas I want to set actual ACHIEVABLE goals. You prefer goals that are not achievable.

If you dispute this, show me a 20/20 req 8-9 zodiac wand for curses, blood, or death. And yes, I'll continue to beat you over the head with this. Adding together EVERYONE'S total hours on GW, and you can't show me ONE.

Inscriptions are needed, and don't wreck anything for anybody that doesn't selfishly promote themselves over others. I am for this for EVERYBODY. You want to protect your stuff.

If you want to farm for that drop without using inscriptions to obtain it, no one is stopping you. Same goal, same fun. Unless it really is about denying everyone else what they want....

i prefer goals that arent achievable?
really, so please, tell me, what are my goals? please, please, inform me your heinous, because i am inferior to your all-knowing wisdom and do not know what i want for myself. please tell me what goals it is i have failed to meet for myself, so that i may promptly begin living up to your great expectations.
i beg of you, share with me your enlightenment.

Do you know this for a fact?

No, I'm probably not. For one thing, I give stuff away. Gave a guy a req 8 14>50 shadow bow just last night, as a matter of fact. So no, I may not be "richer". I'm inclined to believe that I enjoy the game more, however, by not worrying about such trivialities as an imaginary economy. Greater gameplay comes from greater enjoyment of the game, not feigned wealth.

That being said, my archer hero (when I get one) will be toting a req 8 15>50Platinum longbow I found, probably with the 20/20 sundering string I salvaged the other day (first one ever!) and a +30 fortitude thingie. It will be nice having the option to take all those items off the bow and shuffle things around. Greater enjoyment = greater gameplay.

How do you define "damage"? It will change. Prices will shift. Relative values will be shuffled and out of the dust will settle a new pricing system. Nothing will be broken or destroyed. Change is good. Stagnation kills games.

Your self stated 6 month shield search. Put that into context with my above. Stop acting like a wiseass and actually respond to my points. You know they're valid.

Your whole oppsition comes down to your own "location" moniker: If it ain't expensive, it ain't worth buyin'. Stop pretending your interested in anything but you, you, you.

isn't it fun to know your weapons are rare? and only a very few people got them too?

It's fun to find a rare one, true. But if other people have them as well, it in no way diminishes the fun of me having one.

/cry

prices will fall.... on everything. When you get that gold with perfect mods now it seems it will be nigh worthless.

People talk about the non-farmers and the poor people of the game... screw that

low prices = bad economy

If the prices are low, yeah, you can buy it for cheap... but about the people trying to sell? they get screwed out of their income. There is a reason that the greens that only sell for 10k aren't farmed.

Actually, I'm more happy about putting together the look of the character I want, not who else has what. I could care less.

Sums up the anti-inscriptionist viewpoint all too well.

to all the rich, elite people who may be wondering at the level of hostility to you.

there are a few decent ones of you but there are far too many of the following example as shown in a post sequence in this very thread.

OP name is deleted but it is still up on this thread.

that statement shows the level of contempt the elite have for the poor,casual, newcomer to the game.

someone who scratched for 20 hours getting a few plat can lose all of it to a scam for something they really wanted and her response is that no scam occurred because it was too tiny by her standards.

only the rich can be scammed/robbed

believe me when i say that contempt is felt by the other side as well

If everything's "cheap", you don't need much of an income, do you?

How does a virtual economy in a game like Guild Wars get "damaged?" Do people laid off and go hungry? But seriously, the only real "damaged" economy in a gaming world is one where people can't afford things just to play the game as intended.

I'm not saying the economy right now is horrible but how can you people say that lower prices will be devastating? Oh no! People can actually afford stuff! How terrible!

Besides, this isnt about the economy. This is about a better salvaging system. This is about making the game more flexible in it's options. The economy takes a backseat to that.

anyone actually got a link of ANet stating this will be implimented?

I dont give a rat's patootie if my weapons are rare or how many people have them as well. If I like the look and it suits my purposes for my build then that's all I care.

I think it's pretty shallow to only like something because others don't have it.

I don't like to join pugs and don't pvp enough with my guild. I bought the game, so why isn't the phoenix emote available to me? Why should this aspect of the game be denied to me? I don't want to have to grind for emotes.

I don't like to interact with pugs but I want to get Urgoz's bows. Why should I be denied them. Just because I don't grind for hours through elite missions or pay for ferrys to Urgoz doesn't mean I don't deserve to own Urgoz bows.

/end of sarcasm

Your argument makes as little sense as my two arguments about emotes and urgoz bows. Your idea of promoting diversity means giving things to people that haven't earned them.

i worry about the people the "imaginary economy" (and you can ignore it or pretend it doesnt exist, but it does) will effect.

A: its not an impossible goal.
there have been ones out there, other people just nabbed them before me. however, if i wait long enough, i will have one. its just a matter of patience, something many people do not possess, unfortunatly.
my saying of "if it aint expensive, it aint worth buyin" as an economical paradigm of the fact that items of high demand, desireability and rarity naturally cost more. so, by definition, if you want something that (at least by a socio-economic standpoint) is "valuable" it is going to cost you money. items of low desireability or quality, however, are inexpensive. hence the statement.



my favorite sword skin in the game, is a wingblade.
dont believe me? ask anyone whose ever seen me play pve, 99% of the time the swords i will be wielding are a wingblade, or a longsword, 2 of the more common skins.
the only rarer skin i actually really like, is that of the brute sword, because it goes well with FoW armor. my most expensive sword, is probably my least used.
i like items because of their skin, but i hold complete collections, because thats the point of a collection. which is the reason why i possess as many item skins as i can, regardless of my personal taste for them.
some have taken longer to aquire than others, and ive accepted that time discrepancy as the price for obtaining vanity skins.

Another horrible analogy. Weapons and mods are part of gameplay. Emotes are NOT. Try again.

That’s rather I high number to speculate about. Since we know that each player will play the game how they see fit. There is a percentage of people who have to have the weapon they want and will do what ever it takes to achieve that. But you can just stop there, you have to consider the percentage of people who want to earn the weapon of choice by going out and getting it, add in those who only go for the item for its vale and going after it with the sole purpose increase their wealth. Don’t forget to add in those who don’t have enough gold to obtain items of choice. It’s rather quite complex once you sit down and think about.

Honestly if the new salvage options make you quit your goals in which you set yourself then that’s really a personal thing. Considering that it’s something totally about choice and no one what so ever it forcing people use the new salvage options. Secondly if you are going after the item for your own benefit and then it shouldn’t bug you what what other people chose to do. However its disguised it is more then likely people who have the high end rarest of the rare would see this a threat because they at some point will be willing to sell the long term goal item and they fell that they won’t get the value at which they think it’s worth, once again proving that it’s a personal thing.
------------
There’s more to the economy then players trading players. If a million players don’t buy from you at the price you want what is it really going to affect if the same million people still don’t buy from you.

Don't be absurd. Emotes are a purely PvP thing from the very start and always have been. You want one, you PvP for fame or whatever and eventually get one. Urgoz bow is a different story. It's a skin. You can get weapons with the exact same stats, but like every other skin, if you want one you need to go find it (or someone that already did). That's a whole different animal than an enhanced salvage capability. Take Platinum Bows, for example. If you want the skin, you will still need to find one or (shudder) buy one. However, it harms no one if, upon finding one, you can enhance it to the mods/inscriptions of your choice.

How?! How is anyone in any way possibly harmed by me having the added flexibility the enhanced salvage will provide?

Weapons and mods are part of gameplay, skins are not. Hence collector items and greens fullfill this area. Rare skins are for vanity, just like emotes.

Try again.

P.S. If you are unhappy with the current availablility of mod combinations on greens and collector items, then ask Anet for more of them in Nightfall.

im by no means rich... I had to beg for money to afford 15k for god sakes. i dont got a single gold right now.


but still.. i sort of enjoy the feeling that there are really rare items out there, and people with alot of money. it makes me feel like a little fish in a big ocean, full fo wonder.

just because i will never have it, it does not mean i cant appreciate it in the larger spectrum of things.


am i a fan of hardcore grinding and stuff? no.


i still wish though that they would create may more mods. maybe stuff like, "+15% damage while attacking a moving target", or "20+ armor if attacked by more than 3 enemies at the same time".

I miss more rare and diverse mods, and more rare skins. i mean ultra rare skins. I do not like the idea that everything will be easily achiveable.

getting max armor and weapons does not take long. getting collector stuff is enough. a superior vigor and certain runes, i can agree with it, can be a bit pricey for the casual gamer. But in generel... in generel nothing of this have to do with significant power.



if people are afraid of scams, i think the game should try to inform ppl better. also about the attribute quests or titan quests.. how many people even know these are in the game? not many i bet. And I know why - Because of poor feedback.

when a newbie starts playing he/she got no idea what a good weapon is. hence why all noobs think its a good idea to pay 200 plat for a sundering fiery sword...



i miss colour and more diversity. I like the idea of some stuff being rare. I dont think life would be very much fun if everyone looked the same or wore the same cloths.

In GW no one have to have the same build. the combinations are almost limitlessly. it would take a player to copy another player intensionaly to get the same effect.

it would be so sweet if armors, facial features, dye and weapons and weapon mods could be just as diverse.

And after 66 pages the score is



Anti-Inscriptions = Worried about the game balance and the way people will get certain items in this game and that it will be very hard for newcomers to enjoy one of the few roleplaying experience of having goals to achieve such as collecting rare weapons.

People that want inscriptions = I WANT A ZODIAC 15^50 NOW NOW, STFU U ALREADY HAVE ONE SO YOUR OPINION DOESNT COUNT AND I DONT CARE IF YOU HAVE ONE I HAVE AS MUCH RIGHT TO HAVE ONE BECAUSE I BOUGHT THE GAME TOO.


....

xD flame away.

That is such a highly inaccurate assessment it barely is worth the effort to type a flame. So I won't.

The Anti-inscriptionists are not concerned with balance. Salvaging inscriptions promotes balance by increasing the availability of mods that everyone has available. They are merely worried that their personal fortunes will somehow diminish in value, as though there is a real value to them.

The Pro-inscriptionists simply (from my perspective, at least) like the idea of being able to mix and match weapons parts to create the weapons of choice. The beauty is in weapons not beign destroyed when items are salvaged from them in addition to being able to salvage specific mods or inscriptions. It promotes greater gameplay and diversity.

To date, no one will answer as to what harm there could possibly be in me being able to shuffle mods around between my weapons creating the ones I want.

-most skills cost 1k (don't remember after buying how many)
-basic max armor 1.5k plus materials per piece (ok, affordable)
-crafter items are 5k and 10k plus materials (unfortunately not everything accessible through collectors)
-superior vigors were always above 25k during factions and now above 40k, because everybody is preparing for NF (haven't one dropping since march and i play a lot)
-15k armors are 15k plus materials per piece

Ok, 15k armor is a vanity item, but for everything else i would prefer a higher income..

lol if they are already rich why would they be worried that their weapons would lose a bit of value ?

If I already had 5 million i dont think id care if my sword lost 20k in value :S.

Inscriptions are not strictly just so that people can get rare skins. It's just a better salvaging option, period.

One quick thought. As far as my recollection goes, whenever ANet has introduced new items, or modified things on items... Items already in existence were not effected, unless completely yanked wholesale from the game, including players' stashes. I might be wrong about this having taken a bit of a break for a few months, but this is how it's been as far as I can remember.

Should they follow in that tradition with inscriptions, then come Nightfall, weapons and things with the new inscriptions will start dropping (hopefully in all 3 lands), but all of our old weapons will be kinda stuck with what they have on them now as far as inherents go. That would mean they would still salvage to either a mod (maybe still random) or materials. I doubt that all of the weapons we now possess will suddenly have they inherants turned into inscriptions.

If that were the case, all of these rare pre-inscription, rare golds... especially the "perfect" ones, might actually see an increase in value because we may never see their like again and they would be true prizes for the hardcore collector. Granted I'd hope that there would be a way to tell the difference such as "+15^50(inscription)" in the text. Besides, who is to say that EVERY weapon will have inscriptions? We might get a mix of the regular old fashioned ones and the new inscripted weapons just like we get now.

The important thing is we JUST DON"T KNOW yet. Personally I think it would be just dandy if we had a mix. Inscribed items and "naturally" perfect items. Then there would be something in it for everyone with no particular downside for anyone. Would something like that satisfy both camps in this raging nightmare of a thread??

In keeping with my own thoughts about current weapons not being suddenly changed when NF or the inscription system goes live, all I've held aside for now is a perfectly clean, max dmg, req 7 Fellblade (white of course)..

Just some food for thought, given what I remember of the way they have implimented changes to items in the past. Any other thoughts along this line?

As for my feelings on the inscription thing in the first place. I like the idea for it's flexibility in weapons creation and the flexibility it will allow me in my builds. I'd prefer not to have to pour tons of attribute points to get the full benifit of a higher req weapon unless I was a Warrior and it was my primary anyhow. For the most part I tend to go with functionality over how pretty it is, but hang on tight to the things I think look really nice. But honestly I would rather be able to have a skin I like seeing with a decent req and mods given the choice, but see absolutely no sense in paying 100k+ 8 full stacks of ectos for anything.. ever. I have better things to spend money on.

For the ones that do so for whatever reason, have at itand and good luck to you in your quest for millions and leetness. With any luck you'll still get to play Merchant Prince/Princess and be happy while the rest of us will finally be able to enjoy the game to a more full extent ourselves.

As far as the economy goes, the only thing that would really change is in the weapons/offhand market.. everything I buy from the merchant would cost exactly the same, and the stuff from the item traders would do what they always have done. The rest would adjust in time and the ones that enjoy wheeling and dealing will still be able to do that in some form or fashion.