Is anyone else worried about the new salvage options?

Jetdoc

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:02 - 1241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
The problem with Inscriptions is it effect two things:

One is Inherent Mods, which I think most agree are NOT vanity, and should be available to all.

The other is Rare Skins, which some people think of as the equivalent of FoW armor, and has no game effect whatsoever.

Include Inscriptions, but also include FoW Items for the "hardcore" player to strive for.

Limitations on Inscriptions like customization of Inscribed items, color change, etc., to keep value of vanity items.

In short, I really don't care what concessions Anet makes to keep the "Elite" players happy, as long as in the end, Inscriptions deliver in getting rare mods into the hands of casual players.
A couple of points:

1. Inherent modifiers on Warrior, Ranger and Assassin weapons ARE currently available to all via greens, collector and crafter weapons.

Inherent modifiers on caster items and shields are not.

To satisfy both camps, I think that they should simply expand the green/collector/crafter item selection for caster items and shields to incorporate these uncommon variations.

2. If they do my suggestion on #1 above, then the primary reason for inscriptions IS vanity - applying that modifier (which is already available via green/collector/crafter item) to a skin you like.

The only other possible reason is storage capacity (as Gli mentioned earlier), but I've voiced my opinion about storage management earlier in this thread.

I'm intrigued by the FoW weapon idea, but in the end I think that the same camp screaming for inscriptions will scream about the inequity of those items as well...but that is just a presumption on my part. I think that the customization argument is good in theory, but I doubt that A-Net will force customization on people...

Sid Soggybottom

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:08 - 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkgood
A prime example of a liberal extremist point of view. I live in a nation where 10% of the population pays 80% of the taxes. Is this fair? According to you it would seem so since the majority are paying far less proportionately and since the majority are happy then everything is just peachy. To me, this is a very selfish point of view. Now to bring this back to the topic at hand.
What the hell are you going on about here? How does this apply to GW at all? It's not like the upper crust of GW traders are paying taxes or paying anything at all to anyone else. For crying out loud, stop using stupid analogies that dont apply to anything at all.

Geezus, I dont mind differing opinions but bringing up ridiculous arguments just annoys the crap out of me.

Omega X

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:12 - 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Inscriptions will allow your regular Joe, like myself, to equip my heroes with top quality weapons cheap by allowing peicemeal mixing and matching. What the "rich" fail to realize is that this doesn't cost them a bloody cent... I wouldn't buy from them in the first place. Probably a minimum of players actually buy items to get them to the upper end of things.

Consider this... pre-inscriptions (now), my necro has a collector Blood staff
(20/20, +5e, +30 health).

Post-inscriptions - he would have had it faster.

This will benefit the vast majority of players the most. This is as it should be.
QFT

I welcome this change.

Jetdoc

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:16 - 1244
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Consider this... pre-inscriptions (now), my necro has a collector Blood staff
(20/20, +5e, +30 health).

Post-inscriptions - he would have had it faster.
He would've gotten it in the starter Shing Jea Island, versus waiting until he got to Kaineng Center in about an hour?

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Manzo

Wow.

winkgood

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:21 - 1245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom
What the hell are you going on about here? How does this apply to GW at all? It's not like the upper crust of GW traders are paying taxes or paying anything at all to anyone else. For crying out loud, stop using stupid analogies that dont apply to anything at all.

Geezus, I dont mind differing opinions but bringing up ridiculous arguments just annoys the crap out of me.
It doesn't apply to Guild Wars specifically but does apply to your comments and your point of view on things. The fact that you are getting angry about it just solidifies what I said.

MSecorsky

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:24 - 1246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
He would've gotten it in the starter Shing Jea Island, versus waiting until he got to Kaineng Center in about an hour?

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Manzo

Wow.
Nah, actually the first one I saw was the trader outside Leviathan. He has the 20/20 blood staff... Evil Eye staff I believe. What inscriptions/ selective trading would have allowed is for me to get the +30 health faster.

Which actually points out that that doesn't even include the benefits of inscriptions, good point!

THAT'S where the fun comes in... Koss has a req 8 max damage white Fellblade waiting on the inscriptions option for him to play with. I can't wait... a white 15>50 max fellblade with whatever attachments I choose, when I choose them.

Players will have inventories of their favorite mods/inscriptions that they can mix and match for whatever scenario presents itself.

Hmm... maybe people should stop whining about inscriptions and start pushing for more storage.

Mordakai

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:25 - 1247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
A couple of points:

1. Inherent modifiers on Warrior, Ranger and Assassin weapons ARE currently available to all via greens, collector and crafter weapons.

Inherent modifiers on caster items and shields are not.

To satisfy both camps, I think that they should simply expand the green/collector/crafter item selection for caster items and shields to incorporate these uncommon variations.
Yes, they could do this.... OR they could just offer Inscriptions and save a lot of trouble of making every combination possible, and continue having to update this ever growing list of weapons with every new Chapter as new professions (and attributes) are introduced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
I'm intrigued by the FoW weapon idea, but in the end I think that the same camp screaming for inscriptions will scream about the inequity of those items as well...but that is just a presumption on my part.
How many people on this thread do you hear complaining about FoW armor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
I think that the customization argument is good in theory, but I doubt that A-Net will force customization on people...
And I doubt Anet will create Greens and Collectors that have every combination of mods possible... I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Mordakai

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:30 - 1248
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkgood
It doesn't apply to Guild Wars specifically but does apply to your comments and your point of view on things. The fact that you are getting angry about it just solidifies what I said.
Please. If you want to discuss progressive taxation, start another thread.

This is about Inscriptions. Let's keep on topic.

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

12 Oct 2006 at 19:31 - 1249
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkgood
It doesn't apply to Guild Wars specifically but does apply to your comments and your point of view on things. The fact that you are getting angry about it just solidifies what I said.
Say what? So someone getting angry at your illogical and just plain silly arguments is proof that you're right?

....Wha?

MSecorsky

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:32 - 1250
Another side effect of the changes - with respect to guaranteed salvage and the weapon not being destroyed...

Party approaches a mob of 'x' and realizes that they're sensitive to cold damage. Party pauses to put cold damage mods on their weapons before attacking.

There are so many ways that this change will benefit the game.

Tank knows that the bonder will be taking good care of him, changes to a +15% while enchanted inscription.

Think of the greater good!

Jetdoc

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:40 - 1251
Since I'm intrigued by the continued argument that inherent modifiers are NOT available to the common player, here's a quick list of those inherent modifiers that ARE available, and those that are NOT, via green/collector/crafter.

Available via Green/Collector/Crafter - Swords, Axes, Hammers, Daggers, ALL Classifications of Bows

Damage +15% (while Health is above 50%)
Damage +15% (while enchanted)
Damage +15% Armor -10 (while attacking)
Damage +15% Energy -5
Damage +15% (vs. hexed foes)
Damage +20% (while Health is below 50%)
Damage +20% (while hexed)
Energy +5

Available via Green/Collector/Crafter - Shields

Tactics HP +30 Damage -5 (20%)
Tactics HP +45 enchanted Damage -2 enchanted
Tactics HP +30 damage -2 (enchanted)
Tactics HP +45 stanced Damage -2 stanced
Tactics HP +60 hexed Damage -3 hexed
Tactics HP +30 Tactics +1 (20%)
Tactics HP +30 armor +10 (vs piercing)
Strength HP +30 Damage -5 (20%)
Strength HP +45 enchanted Damage -2 enchanted
Strength HP +30 damage -2 (enchanted)
Strength HP +45 stanced Damage -2 stanced
Strength HP +30 damage -2 (stanced)
Strength HP +60 hexed Damage -3 hexed
Strength HP +30 Strength +1 (20%)
Strength damage -2 stanced Quick recovery Blind
Strength damage -2 enchanted Quick recovery Weakness

NOT Available via Green/Collector/Crafter - Swords, Axes, Hammers, Daggers, ALL Classifications of Bows

Damage +15% Health regeneration -1
Damage +15% Energy regeneration -1

NOT Available via Green/Collector/Crafter - Shields
Tactics HP +30 damage -2 (stanced)
Tactics damage -2 stanced Quick recovery Blind
Tactics damage -2 enchanted Quick recovery Weakness
Strength HP +30 armor +10 (vs piercing)
ALL Shields - Quick recovery Crippled, Poison, Dazed
ALL Shields - +10 armor (vs elemental) or (vs slashing/blunt) or (vs creature)
ALL Shields - dual damage reduction modifiers

I'll update this for wands/staves/foci once I get the chance. Please let me know if you see any errors in the above. I can also post the specific green/collector/crafter for each of these if anyone is interested.

As you can see above, there are very few weapons where a certain inherent modifier is not currently available. Shields have a few more specialized combinations that are not available, but I think that is easily corrected by introducing more green/collector/crafter items that allow those combos.

Mordakai

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:41 - 1252
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Another side effect of the changes - with respect to guaranteed salvage and the weapon not being destroyed...

Party approaches a mob of 'x' and realizes that they're sensitive to cold damage. Party pauses to put cold damage mods on their weapons before attacking.

There are so many ways that this change will benefit the game.

Tank knows that the bonder will be taking good care of him, changes to a +15% while enchanted inscription.

Think of the greater good!
I like it. Of course, if this doesn't transfer to PvP, you even have more disparity between PvE and PvP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
As you can see above, there are very few weapons where a certain inherent modifier is not currently available. Shields have a few more specialized combinations that are not available, but I think that is easily corrected by introducing more green/collector/crafter items that allow those combos.
Nice list. But again, I think the idea of Inscriptions spawned directly from Paragons spears and shields, and Dervish scythes. And how many combos will be needed by Chapter 10?

It's a no brainer, really.

MSecorsky

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:43 - 1253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
As you can see above, there are very few weapons where a certain inherent modifier is not currently available. Shields have a few more specialized combinations that are not available, but I think that is easily corrected by introducing more green/collector/crafter items that allow those combos.
Very nice, and excellent work.

Now, if I may, what would be the problem with me taking a white plain fellblade, dropping a 15>50 and some mods on it and giving it to Koss to play with?

sixdartbart

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:44 - 1254
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Another side effect of the changes - with respect to guaranteed salvage and the weapon not being destroyed...

Party approaches a mob of 'x' and realizes that they're sensitive to cold damage. Party pauses to put cold damage mods on their weapons before attacking.

There are so many ways that this change will benefit the game.

Tank knows that the bonder will be taking good care of him, changes to a +15% while enchanted inscription.

Think of the greater good!
And by that logic why not be able to change your skill bar while you are in a mission because you might find something that some of your other skills would work better on...

Ever here of being prepared before going out to kill things???

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Think of the greater good!
OMFG even if it would save one grawl wouldn't it be worth it...

Hey Wink don't worry some people understand painfully well the point you were making and others will never be able to

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

12 Oct 2006 at 19:44 - 1255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
Since I'm intrigued by the continued argument that inherent modifiers are NOT available to the common player, here's a quick list of those inherent modifiers that ARE available, and those that are NOT, via green/collector/crafter.

*big list here*
And as you can see it gets very messy trying to put out collectors/greens with every possible combination out there. Wouldnt a simple inscription/improved salvaging system be far better?

Imagine trying to put out a shield collector for every possible combination. Yikes.

MSecorsky

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:47 - 1256
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdartbart
And by that logic why not be able to change your skill bar while you are in a mission because you might find something that some of your other skills would work better on...

Ever here of being prepared before going out to kill things???
Your attempt at logic fails simply because people can take multiple weapons with them and switch weapons. Now we may have the chance to switch mods rather than weapons.

Mordakai

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:51 - 1257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Your attempt at logic fails simply because people can take multiple weapons with them and switch weapons. Now we may have the chance to switch mods rather than weapons.
We can switch weapons AND armor.

When we gain levels, we can update our stats on the spot.

When getting a new skill, we can update that in the field.

Why not change Mods as well?

Jetdoc

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:53 - 1258
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
THAT'S where the fun comes in... Koss has a req 8 max damage white Fellblade waiting on the inscriptions option for him to play with. I can't wait... a white 15>50 max fellblade with whatever attachments I choose, when I choose them.
I'm exactly with you there...I have a number of weapons with skins I love that I can't wait to update. Perfect Hand Axe/Stone Summit Warlord Shield collection - here I come!

But then again, that's really selfish on my part...it's instant gratification. After I upgrade them, I really don't have much more use of pursuing other items, as I would have obtained my "perfect" item.

That eliminates a goal in the game for me...as it would for many, many others. That's why I think this change is bad for the game, IMO.

MSecorsky

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12 Oct 2006 at 19:55 - 1259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
We can switch weapons AND armor.

When we gain levels, we can update our stats on the spot.

When getting a new skill, we can update that in the field.

Why not change Mods as well?
Yeah, exactly my point.

MSecorsky

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12 Oct 2006 at 20:00 - 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
I'm exactly with you there...I have a number of weapons with skins I love that I can't wait to update. Perfect Hand Axe/Stone Summit Warlord Shield collection - here I come!

But then again, that's really selfish on my part...it's instant gratification. After I upgrade them, I really don't have much more use of pursuing other items, as I would have obtained my "perfect" item.

That eliminates a goal in the game for me...as it would for many, many others. That's why I think this change is bad for the game, IMO.
Instant gratification? All that planning, that hoarding of weapons to scavange from to get just what you want... the salvaging, discarding worthless mods, keeping perfect... salvaging leftovers for materials... hardly instant. Plus you need to find your skin of choice in the first place.

It makes me wonder... if all you have left in the game is getting that 'perfect' item... why do you still play? I may want perfect items for my characters and heroes all around, but that's not the be-all and end-all of the game. There's still the game to play, the titles to get, the missions to achieve masters in...

If you lose interest in the game because you finally get your perfect weapon, you need to rethink what you do in the evening.

Jetdoc

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12 Oct 2006 at 20:00 - 1261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher
And as you can see it gets very messy trying to put out collectors/greens with every possible combination out there. Wouldnt a simple inscription/improved salvaging system be far better?
They've done it for weapons, so I don't see much of a stretch for shields as well.

Granted, they won't be able to do every combination of the dual-modifiers, but we don't even know if that will be available in the Nightfall inscription system either.

In other words, you may not have "two" inscriptions you can salvage for dual modded shields/caster items. You may only be able to take the "combo" off one item and put it on another.

For example, you may have a +45 HP while enchanted, -2 damage in a stance shield. We have no idea whether, under the inscription system, you'd be able to replace JUST the -2 damage in a stance modifier with a -2 damage while enchanted modifier.

You may only be able to remove the combination inscription.

Being able to remove only one inscription also causes some logistical problems, as there are many combinations not currently available in the game such as dual HP modifiers (but dual damage reduction modifiers are allowed).

sixdartbart

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12 Oct 2006 at 20:02 - 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Your attempt at logic fails simply because people can take multiple weapons with them and switch weapons. Now we may have the chance to switch mods rather than weapons.
Congrats you understood the point even if you don't realize it
You are trying to add into the discussion about why or why not to have inscriptions something that is already possible....

Current system = prepare yourself before entering - hit hot-key to switch weapon sets for a new set of beasties

Your proposal = hang on guys lets re mod all of our weapons before we go any farther - oh crap it's more of the other guys lets stop and re mod everything again - here comes more of those again lets stop so I can change my mods again.

Not to mention how screwed this would be in PvP....

Mordakai

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12 Oct 2006 at 20:03 - 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
I'm exactly with you there...I have a number of weapons with skins I love that I can't wait to update. Perfect Hand Axe/Stone Summit Warlord Shield collection - here I come!

But then again, that's really selfish on my part...it's instant gratification. After I upgrade them, I really don't have much more use of pursuing other items, as I would have obtained my "perfect" item.

That eliminates a goal in the game for me...as it would for many, many others. That's why I think this change is bad for the game, IMO.
Your a smart guy, I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding other goals.

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

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In my head

12 Oct 2006 at 20:04 - 1264
I think people dont realize that having more variety and options and flexibility is what prolongs the longevity and replayability of a game. NOT the chasing the carrot on a stick gimmick. Some people arent fooled by that artificial trick of prolonging the game. Shame that a few people here dont realize that.

Jetdoc

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12 Oct 2006 at 20:06 - 1265
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Instant gratification? All that planning, that hoarding of weapons to scavange from to get just what you want... the salvaging, discarding worthless mods, keeping perfect... salvaging leftovers for materials... hardly instant. Plus you need to find your skin of choice in the first place.

It makes me wonder... if all you have left in the game is getting that 'perfect' item... why do you still play? I may want perfect items for my characters and heroes all around, but that's not the be-all and end-all of the game. There's still the game to play, the titles to get, the missions to achieve masters in...

If you lose interest in the game because you finally get your perfect weapon, you need to rethink what you do in the evening.
1. You don't need to hoard weapons. You simply need to buy, from another player, that skin you want...which likely will be pretty cheap. Then go buy the inscription you want (either from another player or a merchant if they institute it). BAM - you have your perfect weapon.

In other words - ask yourself - how many people that have fellblades right now actually went out and farmed until they got the one they wanted? 99.9% of the people that have them bought them from other players.

2. I didn't say that this was my only goal, but it IS a goal. People that don't have any reason for playing the game OTHER than hoarding items definitely need to reconsider their game choice.

However, removing this goal only limits the playability of the game. It's like saying that you play primarily PvE, so it's okay if they remove Heroes Ascent, the PvP arenas and Alliance Battles. YOU may not play them often, but removing the option of playing those, as a goal in the game, generally hurts the game.

Remember - the true value of Guild Wars is the diversity in how it can be played. Removing ways in can be played takes away some of the base appeal, to old farts like myself and to new players, alike.

Mordakai

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12 Oct 2006 at 20:07 - 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdartbart
Congrats you understood the point even if you don't realize it
You are trying to add into the discussion about why or why not to have inscriptions something that is already possible....

Current system = prepare yourself before entering - hit hot-key to switch weapon sets for a new set of beasties

Your proposal = hang on guys lets re mod all of our weapons before we go any farther - oh crap it's more of the other guys lets stop and re mod everything again - here comes more of those again lets stop so I can change my mods again.

Not to mention how screwed this would be in PvP....

Meh, I'm not sure most people would even take advantage of this. I've never been in a group where people said, "wait, let's switch Armor for the next group."

In fact, with four weapon slots available, you could already have every weapon pre-modded for optimum efficiency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher
I think people dont realize that having more variety and options and flexibility is what prolongs the longevity and replayability of a game. NOT the chasing the carrot on a stick gimmick. Some people arent fooled by that artificial trick of prolonging the game. Shame that a few people here dont realize that.
Great point.

MSecorsky

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12 Oct 2006 at 20:11 - 1267
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdartbart
Congrats you understood the point even if you don't realize it
You are trying to add into the discussion about why or why not to have inscriptions something that is already possible....

Current system = prepare yourself before entering - hit hot-key to switch weapon sets for a new set of beasties

Your proposal = hang on guys lets re mod all of our weapons before we go any farther - oh crap it's more of the other guys lets stop and re mod everything again - here comes more of those again lets stop so I can change my mods again.

Not to mention how screwed this would be in PvP....
Who knows... maybe this will make it easier for everyone to have those three or four weapons modded just so, and maybe there will be those that find it easier to take one or two weapons and a few spare mods for special circumstances. As pointed out, the added flexibility is what will make it great.

As for PvP, if you want to stop and change mods while getting wailed on, be my guest.

sixdartbart

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12 Oct 2006 at 20:15 - 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
It makes me wonder... if all you have left in the game is getting that 'perfect' item... why do you still play? I may want perfect items for my characters and heroes all around, but that's not the be-all and end-all of the game. There's still the game to play, the titles to get, the missions to achieve masters in...

If you lose interest in the game because you finally get your perfect weapon, you need to rethink what you do in the evening.
Why not take a look at what he actually wrote rather than changing it to fit in with the argument you want to make?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
That eliminates a goal in the game for me...as it would for many, many others. That's why I think this change is bad for the game, IMO.
Please tell me where he said that was all he had left to do in the game
Looks pretty clear to me that he said it was "a goal" that would be taken away as several others have in this thread but far too many people arguing for this change overlook that to make it easier to exaggerate their points.

Aera Lure

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12 Oct 2006 at 20:17 - 1269
Bottom line: more is better.

To me, the inscriptions concept is a real shame if implemented as I imagine. In the PvE game, the market is a large part of the play. Sure, it shouldnt be all there is to do, but greens and the scope of crafted and collected weapon options in Factions made it such that frankly any PvE player can find what they need to be successful, while leaving room for some hard to come by things that are fun to seek if that's an additional goal for you. There's little point in removing the high end market from Nightfall. All it does is remove one more possibility of things to do in the end game.

MSecorsky

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12 Oct 2006 at 20:18 - 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
1. You don't need to hoard weapons. You simply need to buy, from another player, that skin you want...which likely will be pretty cheap. Then go buy the inscription you want (either from another player or a merchant if they institute it). BAM - you have your perfect weapon.

In other words - ask yourself - how many people that have fellblades right now actually went out and farmed until they got the one they wanted? 99.9% of the people that have them bought them from other players.

2. I didn't say that this was my only goal, but it IS a goal. People that don't have any reason for playing the game OTHER than hoarding items definitely need to reconsider their game choice.

However, removing this goal only limits the playability of the game. It's like saying that you play primarily PvE, so it's okay if they remove Heroes Ascent, the PvP arenas and Alliance Battles. YOU may not play them often, but removing the option of playing those, as a goal in the game, generally hurts the game.

Remember - the true value of Guild Wars is the diversity in how it can be played. Removing ways in can be played takes away some of the base appeal, to old farts like myself and to new players, alike.
Not everyone buys from other players. I don't, for one. If I can't find it, I'll wait until I do. So for many, the 'go buy it' argument fails. Besides, why should that aspect of the game be denied to me... the hoarding of certain found mods and inscriptions with the dreams of constructing the ideal weapon myself rather than buy it from someone that had the fun? Why prevent that level of diversity?

As for finding that perfect weapon, that doesn't go away. You will have the additional option, if you choose to use it, to jig-saw together your perfect weapon. But you don't have to use that option if you don't want to. You would lose nothing in that respect.

sumrtym

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

12 Oct 2006 at 20:20 - 1271
HEY WINKGOOD:

Point me to more than one available for sale 20/20 cast recharge req 9 or lower Zodiac wand for blood, death, and curses, and the same on Zodiac staffs. If you can't, then stop re-itereating the same argument that you can get any skin and combo you want in this game if you "just work for it".

And don't even try telling me "just use a collector" item when your entire argument is based upon wanting to farm for skins as the only thing to do. Just like you, I want the skins and stats I want. Theoretically, the above should be attainable. Realistically, they are not (unless you can put your money where your mouth is and show me availability of those items). Until then, I'd say the inscriptions serve their purpose of allowing people to get the skin and stat they want, without your "proposed" limitations you think people ought to suffer.

BTW, I leave this as an open invitation to ANY anti-inscriptionist. Either prove these items are available, or just shut-up about their being the needed availability in the game. If myself, and all of you in all your infinite hours of farming, can't produce these above items, then your arguments clearly are flawed. The present system is frustrating, unfriendly, annoying, and limits players too much from their enjoyment of the game. I can craft / buy whatever armor I want in this game to look how I want, but the same is not true in weapons. It's an inherently flawed system, and should be corrected. Under an inscription system, nothing is "handed to me". I still have to get the mods and a low req skin of the one I want (ie work for it). The difference is now that goal is infinitely more obtainable than before, and realistic. You want to keep your unrealistic goal? Then don't use inscriptions. Operate as you always have. This does not curtail your enjoyment one iota, unless you get a thrill out of limiting others in the game (which obviously IS the case given your "customize all inscribed items" opinion).

I await your presentation of the above 6 items since they're "obtainable" under the present system.

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

12 Oct 2006 at 20:28 - 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdartbart
Why not take a look at what he actually wrote rather than changing it to fit in with the argument you want to make?
Please tell me where he said that was all he had left to do in the game
Looks pretty clear to me that he said it was "a goal" that would be taken away as several others have in this thread but far too many people arguing for this change overlook that to make it easier to exaggerate their points.
Speaking of missed points...

The goal of finding that perfect weapon goes nowhere. This would simply add another means of doing so, which is purely optional.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

12 Oct 2006 at 20:32 - 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aera Lure
Bottom line: more is better.

To me, the inscriptions concept is a real shame if implemented as I imagine. In the PvE game, the market is a large part of the play. Sure, it shouldnt be all there is to do, but greens and the scope of crafted and collected weapon options in Factions made it such that frankly any PvE player can find what they need to be successful, while leaving room for some hard to come by things that are fun to seek if that's an additional goal for you. There's little point in removing the high end market from Nightfall. All it does is remove one more possibility of things to do in the end game.
I respectfully disagree. There still will be "high-end" items. Some items will fall in price, others will rise.

And remember, Inscriptions are not removing anything from the game. It's adding a new element.

As you say, "More is better."

sixdartbart

sixdartbart

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Peace Machine GRRR [DiE]

W/N

12 Oct 2006 at 20:35 - 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumrtym
I'd say the inscriptions serve their purpose of allowing people to get the skin and stat they want, without your "proposed" limitations you think people ought to suffer.
Dude I didn't know you were suffering from not having zodiac skin weapons
You have completely turned me around on this whole idea sorry bro you should have told us about your suffering earlier and we would have all stopped being against this days ago.

sumrtym

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

12 Oct 2006 at 20:39 - 1275
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdartbart
Dude I didn't know you were suffering from not having zodiac skin weapons
You have completely turned me around on this whole idea sorry bro you should have told us about your suffering earlier and we would have all stopped being against this days ago.
Wow, and you so almost had me convinced with how everyone will suffer if things are actually realistically obtainable with inscriptions. You shoulda stressed more how you want to protect your "wealth" so I woulda seen the light earlier.

Does this mean you can't produce those 6 items? Surely not.....

Akhilleus

Akhilleus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

If it aint expensive, it aint worth buyin'.

Leading/Co-leading Bretheren Of Chaos [Dark]

W/Mo

12 Oct 2006 at 20:40 - 1276
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
Party approaches a mob of 'x' and realizes that they're sensitive to cold damage. Party pauses to put cold damage mods on their weapons before attacking.
guess what, you can already do this!
i'd support 100% chance to salvage in a HEARTBEAT (and for the matter collectors/crafters with every possible modification in each major city), because thats practical but having the damage mod you want on the skin you want (when you can get it through other means) is NOT practicality, its vanity.

the pro-inscriptionists are calling us selfish, but i guarantee you if you scroll through these 60+ pages of thread, you'd find for every anti-inscriptionist promoting the status quo, are 10 pro-inscriptionists saying "finally ill be able to get my favorite skin with the damage mod i want!" even if EVERY anti-inscriptionist is in it only for themsleves, you guys still outnumber us in selfishness. so, which side is really the more selfish one here?
but as has been stated, legitimate wealthy players will be wealthy, inscriptions or not, i guarantee you we'd still thrive in an even deplorable economy (heck, the economy is infintly more instable than it was last year, and ive made absurd profits trading BECAUSE of the instability and unreliability of item value...theres more room for profit if theres no "standard" price), the fact of the matter is that there are some people who see the possible dangers to the guildwars economy. and if we traders are so devoid of skill in economical predictions, we wouldnt be wealthy to begin with.

sumrtym

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

12 Oct 2006 at 20:43 - 1277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhilleus
the pro-inscriptionists are calling us selfish, but i guarantee you if you scroll through these 60+ pages of thread, you'd find for every anti-inscriptionist promoting the status quo, are 10 pro-inscriptionists saying "finally ill be able to get my favorite skin with the damage mod i want!" even if EVERY anti-inscriptionist is in it only for themsleves, you guys still outnumber us in selfishness. so, which side is really the more selfish one here?
Clearly, you guys. Pro-inscritptions takes nothing away from you, and allows ANYONE (not just me, or that guy, or "I", etc.) to realistically work to obtaining the skin and stats they want.

I'd say it's pretty obvious who the selfish group is no matter how you want to color it. And I'm glad you acknowledge the fact the change is favored by at least 10 to 1.

Franco

Franco

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2006

England

VoB

Me/

12 Oct 2006 at 20:43 - 1278
Mordakai can I ask you a question? Since the start of this thread you have clearly shown a negative feeling about geting 15k armor or expensive weapons because people have to grind for it and It's not a pleasent experience of the game, but dont you think thats a bit selfish? I mean, What business is it of yours if someone farms trolls for 10 hours to get 15k armor? Its their time, its their game, its their way of having fun, Mind your own business.


Oh and Manitoba GREAT POST, glad to see someone else that can see the real truth here.

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

12 Oct 2006 at 20:45 - 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhilleus
the pro-inscriptionists are calling us selfish, but i guarantee you if you scroll through these 60+ pages of thread, you'd find for every anti-inscriptionist promoting the status quo, are 10 pro-inscriptionists saying "finally ill be able to get my favorite skin with the damage mod i want!" even if EVERY anti-inscriptionist is in it only for themsleves, you guys still outnumber us in selfishness. so, which side is really the more selfish one here?
Simple... the rich ones that wish to deny availability of ideal weapons for everyone except at their price.

What could possibly be so bad about letting me piece together a max 15>50 fellblade with the mods I want and not have to spend a lot to do so? What could possibly be so bad in me taking a 15>50 inscription of this sword, the hilt of that one, etc. and making me something I'll enjoy even more? Because I didn't pay you to do so?

Methinks Akhilleus doth protest too much.

Akhilleus

Akhilleus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

If it aint expensive, it aint worth buyin'.

Leading/Co-leading Bretheren Of Chaos [Dark]

W/Mo

12 Oct 2006 at 20:46 - 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher
And as you can see it gets very messy trying to put out collectors/greens with every possible combination out there. Wouldnt a simple inscription/improved salvaging system be far better?

Imagine trying to put out a shield collector for every possible combination. Yikes.
i somehow think the thousands of lines of code, and the hours of beta-testing inscriptions (along with the chance of MASSIVLY screwing everything up), somehow amount to more time than it would take to input another collector.
the mods already exist in the game, and they know they work, its just a matter of adding new combinations to different collectors.