Is anyone else worried about the new salvage options?

Mordakai

Mordakai

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Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

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28 Sep 2006 at 15:33 - 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Herbalizer
If there was all inherent combinations covered by anet would there still be a problem? What if Anet also made the collectors skins more attractive?
Well, that would solve my problem. However, making Collectors and Crafters for every single combination that exists is quite a chore.

Which is probably why some designer said, "Hey, instead of making all these collector's, why not just make the inherent modifier removeable?"

Genius, IMO. As long as there are Mod and Inscription traders, this will make casual players life much easier.

And maybe these inscriptions won't work on Golds or something... we don't know yet.

The Herbalizer

The Herbalizer

<3 Ecto

Join Date: Jul 2005

28 Sep 2006 at 15:33 - 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by milias
Huh? I wasn't talking about insider trading, I was talking about the perceived value in "perfect" items. Just like stocks, it's a perceived value, and like stocks, when stock prices go down, you lose money.



I believe most inherent bonuses are available in the form of collector/crafter/green items. Also keep in mind that if some change is made to benefit you, it will come at a cost to someone else, which in this case, is people like me.
We are evil people with nice items so they are allowed to not care about our loss.

Hopefully when inscriptions are added something happens with the item like it goes red. The text that is.

milias

milias

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Join Date: Nov 2005

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28 Sep 2006 at 15:35 - 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Which is probably why some designer said, "Hey, instead of making all these collector's, why not just make the inherent modifier removeable?"

Genius, IMO. As long as there are Mod and Inscription traders, this will make casual players life much easier.
If they had made this decision from the get-go, it would've been perfectly fine. But making this change now will end up pissing a lot of people off.

DeathByAmor

DeathByAmor

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Join Date: Aug 2006

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28 Sep 2006 at 15:37 - 284
Just to let you guys know this news of the inherent mods has already had a big effect on the market. I saw a Req 8 Sephis 15^50 that sold for 85 ectos in Lions Arch and a Req 9 15^50 20/20 +30 sell for 100k + 15 ectos. I have seen alot of people buying up rare skinned req 8 weapons as well as high req bad skinned 15^50 weapons. Heck I bought up around 40 high req bad skinned swords and axes for around 5-10k each. Of course if this ends up not being a good investment at least I will have items to give to my heros and plenty to sell to others for their heros. If you want to make this new market work for you you will need to start early.

milias

milias

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28 Sep 2006 at 15:40 - 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathByAmor
Just to let you guys know this news of the inherent mods has already had a big effect on the market. I saw a Req 8 Sephis 15^50 that sold for 85 ectos in Lions Arch and a Req 9 15^50 20/20 +30 sell for 100k + 15 ectos. I have seen alot of people buying up rare skinned req 8 weapons as well as high req bad skinned 15^50 weapons. Heck I bought up around 40 high req bad skinned swords and axes for around 5-10k each. Of course if this ends up not being a good investment at least I will have items to give to my heros and plenty to sell to others for their heros. If you want to make this new market work for you you will need to start early.
Again, I fail to see how this is casual-player friendly. Casual players won't have the resources to engage in this kind of trading.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

28 Sep 2006 at 15:47 - 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by milias
If they had made this decision from the get-go, it would've been perfectly fine. But making this change now will end up pissing a lot of people off.
i think Anet/NCsoft has the probable per cent of people in your bracket that will quit.

also the number who will benefit and stay longer.

i think this is a game market bottom line thing.

we lose a fraction percent over here and gain 10 per cent over there

also when prices drop drastically they wont have to reprogram for 1000 plat trades as everything will be less than 100 plat to buy

DeathByAmor

DeathByAmor

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28 Sep 2006 at 15:53 - 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by milias
Again, I fail to see how this is casual-player friendly. Casual players won't have the resources to engage in this kind of trading.
Well that is true, but I am going to try to profit in some way off of these new mods. I am losing alot of gold just like the rest of these guys in this thread. Buying these 15^50 modifiers will allow me to recoup some of the money cause there will still some out there with the funds to spend 50-100k on 15^50 mods. As far as the Sephis Axe's are concerned all this does is prove how quickly information spreads and causes a scare in our community. I honestly believe that if there are people out there that are collecting rares for investment purposes it is time to sell now or you may miss your opportunity. If you are a serious collector and love your items keep them, but know that your items will be worth alot less. Now is the time to choose if you are going to customize or not.

Abnaxus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Europe

Keepers of Chaos

28 Sep 2006 at 16:37 - 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winx.ZN
So sorry for warriors and their 15^50 req 7-8 market of super high priced goods. This ONE mod seems to be the highlight of this thread. 15^50 15^50 15^50 15^50.
Have you read the thread or are you just trolling?
This discussion is not about "15^50", the subject is waaay more crucial, something that will change GW the way we know it now, and will soon destroy the game, because if A.net will make inscriptions salvageable, no one will play anymore: THE subject is the price of (gold) req. 8 15^50 crystallines (and dwarven axes)

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

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28 Sep 2006 at 16:46 - 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by milias
Again, I fail to see how this is casual-player friendly. Casual players won't have the resources to engage in this kind of trading.
That's because you're looking at it wrong. Ingore these panicked fools and their obsession with gold. Take the casual guy like me who will, once I've set up my own heroes nicely, salvage things like the 15>50% and sell them for a few K (maybe 5 to 10) or less, depending on the mood, so that other casual players will be able to equally equip themselves. THIS is how casual players will be benefitted, by the simple fact that there will be enough people out there that are not obsessed with greed in an economy that doesn't exist to help drive prices down to realistic levels.

Hey, as long as I have enough gold for personal use, I'm happy.

leprekan

leprekan

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Join Date: Oct 2005

Posers and Wannabes [nubs]

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28 Sep 2006 at 16:57 - 290
Can anyone show me one time Anet was able to tweak the economy and had a positive effect.

Long ago you might not salvage that rune ... Anet fixes this ... net effect is ALL runes drop to almost worthless.

Anet decides to increase the drop rate of superior absorb ... net effect is they are worth more sold to merchant than trader. (it wasn't the Chinese farmer that killed absorb it was the players)

A few months ago the rare and rune trader was fooked up. Anet did a rollback because it was a what? "economy killer" So please stop acting like Anet doesn't want or know that there is an in game economy.

The one thing everyone seems to ignore is that people will still want gold not gold items. Enter a new green what happens? EVERYONE farms it to death trying to make some cash ... end result they become worthless. Same thing will happen with inscriptions. Those Ebay farmers you all loathe will crash the market trying to meet their quotas. 30hp pommels selling for 40k and you people act like the market is up ... they were 100k or higher and had been for most of the past 17 months. Things have not been this cheap since the first few weeks of the original release. It is interesting that a few of the pro posters are slowly showing that their positive view of this update is definitely for personal gain. Many are now arguing that the new heros will need to be equipped with better than collector items ... yet they opposed vanity skins and people that had them and sold them. Which I find funny ...why does it matter what a personal hench uses.

MSecorsky

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:02 - 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Can anyone show me one time Anet was able to tweak the economy and had a positive effect.

Long ago you might not salvage that rune ... Anet fixes this ... net effect is ALL runes drop to almost worthless.
There's one positive effect. I can afford em all.

Quote:
Anet decides to increase the drop rate of superior absorb ... net effect is they are worth more sold to merchant than trader. (it wasn't the Chinese farmer that killed absorb it was the players)
Another positive. Overpriced item now available to all.

Quote:
The one thing everyone seems to ignore is that people will still want gold not gold items. Enter a new green what happens? EVERYONE farms it to death trying to make some cash ... end result they become worthless. Same thing will happen with inscriptions. Those Ebay farmers you all loathe will crash the market trying to meet their quotas. 30hp pommels selling for 40k and you people act like the market is up ... they were 100k or higher and had been for most of the past 17 months. Things have not been this cheap since the first few weeks of the original release. It is interesting that a few of the pro posters are slowly showing that their positive view of this update is definitely for personal gain. Many are now arguing that the new heros will need to be equipped with better than collector items ... yet they opposed vanity skins and people that had them and sold them. Which I find funny ...why does it matter what a personal hench uses.
So everyone will be able to afford inscriptions of their choice?

Another good thing.

Clawdius_Talonious

Clawdius_Talonious

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:07 - 292
I think he means by "affect[ing] the economy in a good way" "making me tons of money"

leprekan

leprekan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:11 - 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
There's one positive effect. I can afford em all.



Another positive. Overpriced item now available to all.



So everyone will be able to afford inscriptions of their choice?

Another good thing.
Excellent! Now how do you buy armor? FoW armor? Even if you say **cough bs** you have no desire for it ... MOST do. Those about to say they dont care if they get it give it a rest or you wouldn't care about being able to make a low req perfect weapon when there are high req perfect mod weapons already available. You people don't seem to get the big picture ... without items worth more than 1k anything but basic armor is out of reach for most of the players.

Mordakai

Mordakai

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Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:17 - 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Can anyone show me one time Anet was able to tweak the economy and had a positive effect.
Any time prices go lower, that's a positive effect (for me)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Long ago you might not salvage that rune ... Anet fixes this ... net effect is ALL runes drop to almost worthless.
Good. Runes are essential to your character, and should be as cheap as possible. Now, if only we could get Sup Vigor down a little more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Anet decides to increase the drop rate of superior absorb ... net effect is they are worth more sold to merchant than trader. (it wasn't the Chinese farmer that killed absorb it was the players)
Last I checked, Sup Absorption were still 500g to sell to Rune Trader. I don't think anything you sell the Merchant is worth 500g...

But you're right, many Runes are sold for more at Merchant than Rune Trader. Again, since Runes are a requirement for your Attributes to be above 13, I don't see how this is bad for the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
A few months ago the rare and rune trader was fooked up. Anet did a rollback because it was a what? "economy killer" So please stop acting like Anet doesn't want or know that there is an in game economy.
Close. They roll back so a few lucky people don't get super rich over a glitch (buying Sup. Vigor for cheap, then selling them for 10k when the price goes back)

If anything Anet doesn't want prices to go to high on "essential" items (see the Sup. Absorption Rune price mentioned earlier). We can get into a whole other debate about what's "essential", if you'd like...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
The one thing everyone seems to ignore is that people will still want gold not gold items. Enter a new green what happens? EVERYONE farms it to death trying to make some cash ... end result they become worthless.
What is the current prices on Greens? 10k - 50k correct?

If 50k is worthless, then what is worth something? 100,000? 1 million?


Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Same thing will happen with inscriptions. Those Ebay farmers you all loathe will crash the market trying to meet their quotas. 30hp pommels selling for 40k and you people act like the market is up ... they were 100k or higher and had been for most of the past 17 months. Things have not been this cheap since the first few weeks of the original release.
Good. The lower the prices the better for me. (40k is still too high for my budget).

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
It is interesting that a few of the pro posters are slowly showing that their positive view of this update is definitely for personal gain. Many are now arguing that the new heros will need to be equipped with better than collector items ... yet they opposed vanity skins and people that had them and sold them. Which I find funny ...why does it matter what a personal hench uses.
Why does it matter what your character uses? For me, this is less about Skins, and more about access to certain modifiers I don't currently have access to.

Fact: Heroes will need Runes. Runes will go up in price (unless drop rates are adjusted accordingly).

Fact: Heroes will need items. Some people will be satisfied with collectors, but I guarantee within a day of release, you'll see screenshots of Heroes all decked out in super-rare skins. Thank goodness the armor is not dyeable, or everyone's Heroes would prob. be dyed Black, too. /sarcasm

(Actually, it would be nice to dye your hero, just so it looks different than other's Heroes...)


As for making a profit... isn't that the whole goal of trading? You act like all you want to do is make things better for the "players", but you refuse to admit that most players have less gold than you do! Lower prices will help most players. They will hurt some players, I don't deny that. But I continue to believe that this update (if done correctly), will help more people than it hurts...

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:25 - 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Excellent! Now how do you buy armor? FoW armor? Even if you say **cough bs** you have no desire for it ... MOST do. Those about to say they dont care if they get it give it a rest or you wouldn't care about being able to make a low req perfect weapon when there are high req perfect mod weapons already available. You people don't seem to get the big picture ... without items worth more than 1k anything but basic armor is out of reach for most of the players.
That's insane. Granted I have no 15K armor (or FoW for that matter), but casual play has gotten me 8 or 9 minipets, about a dozen greens and other stuffs. I can honestly say that I have no desire to spend 15K for a piece of armor that provides no benefits over 1.5K armor... perhaps that's why I can afford other things? Hmm...

If I sell various highly desired inscriptions for say 5 Plat, it won't be long before I have more gold than I really need. Then, I'll buy another minipet or something.

Tommy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2005

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:32 - 296
hmm the problem is that how do we manage to get 42(21 heroesx2 items)+ items for all our heroes? <assuming we got 7 chars> even hardcore will find hard time to gathor all the sup vigors and perfect 15^50 gold items..

leprekan

leprekan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posers and Wannabes [nubs]

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:34 - 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Any time prices go lower, that's a positive effect (for me)!



Good. Runes are essential to your character, and should be as cheap as possible. Now, if only we could get Sup Vigor down a little more...



Last I checked, Sup Absorption were still 500g to sell to Rune Trader. I don't think anything you sell the Merchant is worth 500g...

But you're right, many Runes are sold for more at Merchant than Rune Trader. Again, since Runes are a requirement for your Attributes to be above 13, I don't see how this is bad for the game.



Close. They roll back so a few lucky people don't get super rich over a glitch (buying Sup. Vigor for cheap, then selling them for 10k when the price goes back)

If anything Anet doesn't want prices to go to high on "essential" items (see the Sup. Absorption Rune price mentioned earlier). We can get into a whole other debate about what's "essential", if you'd like...



What is the current prices on Greens? 10k - 50k correct?

If 50k is worthless, then what is worth something? 100,000? 1 million?




Good. The lower the prices the better for me. (40k is still too high for my budget).



Why does it matter what your character uses? For me, this is less about Skins, and more about access to certain modifiers I don't currently have access to.

Fact: Heroes will need Runes. Runes will go up in price (unless drop rates are adjusted accordingly).

Fact: Heroes will need items. Some people will be satisfied with collectors, but I guarantee within a day of release, you'll see screenshots of Heroes all decked out in super-rare skins. Thank goodness the armor is not dyeable, or everyone's Heroes would prob. be dyed Black, too. /sarcasm

(Actually, it would be nice to dye your hero, just so it looks different than other's Heroes...)


As for making a profit... isn't that the whole goal of trading? You act like all you want to do is make things better for the "players", but you refuse to admit that most players have less gold than you do! Lower prices will help most players. They will hurt some players, I don't deny that. But I continue to believe that this update (if done correctly), will help more people than it hurts...
Do you actually play this game? That rollback was not about a "few" people everyone near a rare/rune trader was buying as fast as they could. It was a HUGE amount of people doing it ... showing basic human nature at its worst. It was rolled back because it went on for almost an hour and would have killed the economy ... please feel free to research this and educate yourself. How is sup vig or absorb "essential"? We are talking -1 or +9hps extra ... they are bragging rights end of story. Greens that are easy to get are WORTHLESS also showing basic human nature of the majority being LAZY hence the few above 10k still. 40k still too high for your budget? And you have to have that 30hp pommel instead of the cheap 29hp one why? Listen to yourself ... me me me. I refuse to admit nothing .. I fall into the rich category and this update will not change that. I look at long term life of game not the short term how will this benefit me.

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:35 - 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
hmm the problem is that how do we manage to get 42(21 heroesx2 items)+ items for all our heroes? <assuming we got 7 chars> even hardcore will find hard time to getr all the sup vigors and perfect 15^50 gold items..
One way is to salvage inscriptions and be able to turn even whites into ideal weapons.

Clawdius_Talonious

Clawdius_Talonious

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:36 - 299
who is gonna give their hero superior vigors? Not even all my characters have Superior Vigor, I think I have like 4 between all characters, 30+k for 9hp? Most characters don't need it.

Mordakai

Mordakai

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Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:44 - 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Do you actually play this game?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
That rollback was not about a "few" people everyone near a rare/rune trader was buying as fast as they could. It was a HUGE amount of people doing it ... showing basic human nature at its worst. It was rolled back because it went on for almost an hour and would have killed the economy
Re-read what I said. I agree. Hence the rollback. (I used the word "few" to empasize the fact not everyone is playing GW at the same time. Thus, only a "few" out of the million or so who play this game would benefit from being at the right place at the right time. I don't have the exact number, it was just used as a basis for comparison).

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
How is sup vig or absorb "essential"? We are talking -1 or +9hps extra ... they are bragging rights end of story.
Yeah, that was my weakest argument. I can't explain why Sup Ab. were increased in drops, but Sup Vigors weren't.

BTW, do you think it would be a bad thing if Sup Vigors went down to 1k?

If so, why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Greens that are easy to get are WORTHLESS also showing basic human nature of the majority being LAZY hence the few above 10k still. 40k still too high for your budget? And you have to have that 30hp pommel instead of the cheap 29hp one why? Listen to yourself ... me me me. I refuse to admit nothing .. I fall into the rich category and this update will not change that. I look at long term life of game not the short term how will this benefit me.
Sure you do...

The only reason you've given so far that this would be "bad", is somehow it would keep the casual players from buying 15k armor. I already proved you wrong on that. As for FoW, as someone said, they could actual get the Ecto and Shards they need without buying them. Sure, it's a lot of work, but I suppose that's what getting FoW armor is all about (or should be about, anyway).

But let's stop beating around the bush. First, it was "no vanity skins for casual players." Now it's "no +30 HP mods for casual players?"

Why not? Please explain how your "good will" towards the game somehow prevents casual players from getting +30 HP mods and rare skins?

And please give a reason (a real reason), why this would be bad for players in general, not just current farmers and traders.

Nexium

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

28 Sep 2006 at 17:44 - 301
hmm i havent heard much about this so called new salvage kit but it seems weird if it should work on inherent mods hope they dont :P iam probaly the only one who want it not to work on inherent :P

it's like whats the point of farming then it will kinda restrict the gameplay even more i mean why whould you want to spend Hours farming for a good weapon when you can get one instanley. and whith no effort put into it the game will be even shorter since all you do when you ''finish'' the game is farm for gold and for those Super weapons, now whith the ''new'' salvage kit that will be gone all you need to do is 5-8 troll runs buy those super cheap mods slap em on clean white weapons.... if they gonna do this they should have much much more game content..
Probaly gonna get flamed from some lazy Punk who is to lazy to farm for his sh*t
as long as this wont affect the inherent mods i dont give a flying Duck about these new salvage kit's

Orginal posted in
MseCorskys
Thread

thought it whould fit here better

Tommy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2005

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:48 - 302
[QUOTE=The Herbalizer]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
It depends what you define as a casual gamer. Amount of time played? Well in the last 2 months I have played Guild Wars for 60 hours which is about 1 hour a day. In that time im not 100% sure but have certainly made way over 2 million gold.

However, if you define a casual gamer as someone who does not obsess over perfect stats / rare items / 15k armor / fow armor etc then they would not care about all the expensive items out there.

If a casual gamer is someone who wants nice stuff but doesnt have the time then it is still possible to do as I have mentioned earlier.

If they claim they cannot make gold easily then I am afraid that is their own problem. They cant stick to using cookie cutter farming guides etc to do it. If Anet want to cater to the mindless player then that is a very sad thing. I had a friend who made 2 million gold from candy canes alone and I consider him a casual gamer as he has a job and family to care for.

Now buying slightly imperfect items such as 14>50 ones would cut the cost of obtaining good rare items. The difference in dmg between 14>50 and 15>50 is like .40 or something. It would not hurt to use 1 off perfect items.


I have 10/10 staffs, wands and rods. I have maybe around 40 or so but am not 100% sure. Now how much did they cost me? Most cost me 10-20k. I have bought perfect wands and rods with 5>50 Energy and 10% Recharge for 3k and 10/10 ones for the around that also.

I also have 10/20 staffs which some cost as low as 10k.

I also have 20/20 staffs which some cost as low as 20k and others up to 30k.

They all all totally usable. I know for a fact perfect caster items are obtainable and cheap as I have bought tons. Every single one of my caster chars has two staffs for each attribute line. I also have +1 20% staffs for each attribute line.
i found tons of 20/20 10/10 caster items from farming.. i usually dont even bother to sell them, what i did is sell them to chinese botters in droknar for w/e price.. a few ks? perfect casters usually go for alot. I remember the first 10/10 curse gold staff req8 sold for 1 million, now you can get them for peanuts. 10k to 20ks.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

28 Sep 2006 at 17:50 - 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
please feel free to research this and educate yourself. How is sup vig or absorb "essential"? We are talking -1 or +9hps extra ... they are bragging rights end of story. .
i will not even try to find the posts here and at TGH from expert PVP players (and PVE) who have stated they were the winner and had 9 (or less) hp left.

you yourself have probably seen some of those same posts.

without that extra -1 which adds up over an attack and that +9 they would have lost.

necessary if you are serious.

Clawdius_Talonious

Clawdius_Talonious

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Screwston, Tejas

KOS

N/Me

28 Sep 2006 at 17:52 - 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexium
hmm i havent heard much about this so called new salvage kit but it seems weird if it should work on inherent mods hope they dont :P iam probaly the only one who want it not to work on inherent :P

it's like whats the point of farming then it will kinda restrict the gameplay even more i mean why whould you want to spend Hours farming for a good weapon when you can get one instanley. and whith no effort put into it the game will be even shorter since all you do when you ''finish'' the game is farm for gold and for those Super weapons, now whith the ''new'' salvage kit that will be gone all you need to do is 5-8 troll runs buy those super cheap mods slap em on clean white weapons.... if they gonna do this they should have much much more game content..
Probaly gonna get flamed from some lazy Punk who is to lazy to farm for his sh*t
as long as this wont affect the inherent mods i dont give a flying Duck about these new salvage kit's

Orginal posted in
MseCorskys
Thread

thought it whould fit here better
That's what the new salvage options are all about really, salvaging inscriptions (inheirent modifiers)

I don't think Anet cares whether or not you want them to do it, either. Go stand in line with all the other people who are whining "ZOMG Anet has broke the economy and now all this uberleet gear I have isn't worth what I paid for it, my head a splode!"

I moved my response along with your moved post :P

FYI I'm not "some punk who's too lazy to farm" elsewise I wouldn't have my rit sitting pretty in his 15k Luxon armor dyed black, or my 15k glads and sentinels for my W, or my Kanaxi's etc.

The reason I like the idea so much is that Guild Wars was created to be accessible to people who DON'T have the time to farm all that time for all that gear should be able to get their PVE characters the gear they want, just like everyone else. Not everyone is happy with the same collectors skin items (that many of my characters use) and this will only increase the variety of skins that common players are able to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
i will not even try to find the posts here and at TGH from expert PVP players (and PVE) who have stated they were the winner and had 9 (or less) hp left.

you yourself have probably seen some of those same posts.

without that extra -1 which adds up over an attack and that +9 they would have lost.

necessary if you are serious.
Rolling a PVP character is a valid option, and it's a lot easier to give all your PVP only characters superior vigor runes than it is to afford them for every PVE character.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

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28 Sep 2006 at 17:55 - 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
i will not even try to find the posts here and at TGH from expert PVP players (and PVE) who have stated they were the winner and had 9 (or less) hp left.

you yourself have probably seen some of those same posts.

without that extra -1 which adds up over an attack and that +9 they would have lost.

necessary if you are serious.
Just strengthens my case that Sup Vigors currently cost too much...

But OH NOES, it's the only high-end Rune left to Farm...

Please, Anet, increase the drops of Sup Vigor!

Nexium

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

28 Sep 2006 at 17:58 - 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawdius_Talonious
That's what the new salvage options are all about really, salvaging inscriptions (inheirent modifiers)

I don't think Anet cares whether or not you want them to do it, either. Go stand in line with all the other people who are whining "ZOMG Anet has broke the economy and now all this uberleet gear I have isn't worth what I paid for it, my head a splode!"

I moved my response along with your moved post :P

FYI I'm not "some punk who's too lazy to farm" elsewise I wouldn't have my rit sitting pretty in his 15k Luxon armor dyed black, or my 15k glads and sentinels for my W, or my Kanaxi's etc.

The reason I like the idea so much is that Guild Wars was created to be accessible to people who DON'T have the time to farm all that time for all that gear should be able to get their PVE characters the gear they want, just like everyone else. Not everyone is happy with the same collectors skin items (that many of my characters use) and this will only increase the variety of skins that common players are able to use.
the point was not about the economy Duck the economy the point was that this will significant shorten the will for most players to put any effort in to farm for weapons there for shorten the game play since they know they can get Rare skined weapons that once was ''super'' now they will jut do few troll runs get those rarre skined weapons buy cheap mods and be happy but dont have that urge to continue whith the rest..

i mean what is there to do when you gott all those super weapons you wont be exacly happy oo gold weapon 15^50 ah well i put it in storage no biggie there is no reward in doing FoW ore other high end area's since there wont be any reward for what you have done just crap and more crap...

Tommy

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2005

Grotto,The Paradise of GW Afkers

Afkers Never [CRY]

W/Rt

28 Sep 2006 at 18:02 - 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
Can anyone show me one time Anet was able to tweak the economy and had a positive effect.

Long ago you might not salvage that rune ... Anet fixes this ... net effect is ALL runes drop to almost worthless.

Anet decides to increase the drop rate of superior absorb ... net effect is they are worth more sold to merchant than trader. (it wasn't the Chinese farmer that killed absorb it was the players)

A few months ago the rare and rune trader was fooked up. Anet did a rollback because it was a what? "economy killer" So please stop acting like Anet doesn't want or know that there is an in game economy.

The one thing everyone seems to ignore is that people will still want gold not gold items. Enter a new green what happens? EVERYONE farms it to death trying to make some cash ... end result they become worthless. Same thing will happen with inscriptions. Those Ebay farmers you all loathe will crash the market trying to meet their quotas. 30hp pommels selling for 40k and you people act like the market is up ... they were 100k or higher and had been for most of the past 17 months. Things have not been this cheap since the first few weeks of the original release. It is interesting that a few of the pro posters are slowly showing that their positive view of this update is definitely for personal gain. Many are now arguing that the new heros will need to be equipped with better than collector items ... yet they opposed vanity skins and people that had them and sold them. Which I find funny ...why does it matter what a personal hench uses.
hero system aint a good idea..i like it but it is bad idea... i meant even with collector's items they still aint cheap. i woudl require them with green itmes from Cantha. hp30+energy+5 head already over 15k. so.. green is probabl better. and i Never like any change from anet, none of them. i like the old GW back in may 2005

Clawdius_Talonious

Clawdius_Talonious

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Screwston, Tejas

KOS

N/Me

28 Sep 2006 at 18:04 - 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexium
the point was not about the economy Duck the economy the point was that this will significant shorten the will for most players to put any effort in to farm for weapons there for shorten the game play since they know they can get Rare skined weapons that once was ''super'' now they will jut do few troll runs get those rarre skined weapons buy cheap mods and be happy but dont have that urge to continue whith the rest..

i mean what is there to do when you gott all those super weapons you wont be exacly happy oo gold weapon 15^50 ah well i put it in storage no biggie there is no reward in doing FoW ore other high end area's since there wont be any reward for what you have done just crap and more crap...
There are many things to do in this game, not everyone is obsessed with getting Zodiac gear and FOW. A lot of players prefer the PVP aspects of the game to the PVE aspects, however some PVPers may be inclined to make RP characters if they can easily access the items to obtain the look they would like to have that isn't available to their PVP only characters.

I see it as a good thing, in the end the reward for gameplay comes in the form of titles and such, not in being the only person in your guild with the phat lootz

perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree, and we'll see how it all works out in the end.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

28 Sep 2006 at 18:05 - 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexium
the point was not about the economy... the point was that this will significantly shorten the will for most players to put any effort in to farm for weapons. Therefore, gameplay will be shortened since they know they can get Rare skined weapons that once was ''super", and now they will jut do few troll runs get those rare skined weapons, and buy cheap mods and be happy... but not have the urge to continue with the rest..
Edited for clarity.

I don't know, there will be a whole new Market of Inscriptions to farm for. This might encourage casual players (like me), to farm, since the chance of getting something will hopefully be up.

Now, will people quit once they have all the weapons they want?

Well, let me ask this to all the rich people who currently have every skin they want:

Did you quit? If not, why not? (and yes, this is a serious question)

I asked this before and got rebuked, but I don't think I asked it clearly enough:

If the only point in playing Guild Wars is to get "item X", what do you do after you get that item? Do you quit? Or, do you find a new goal to achieve?

As long as Anet gives us new things that we want, (which they do every 6 months), most people will probably keep playing. That's my guess, anyway.

Clawdius_Talonious

Clawdius_Talonious

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Screwston, Tejas

KOS

N/Me

28 Sep 2006 at 18:07 - 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
hero system aint a good idea..i like it but it is bad idea... i meant even with collector's items they still aint cheap. i woudl require them with green itmes from Cantha. hp30+energy+5 head already over 15k. so.. green is probabl better. and i Never like any change from anet, none of them. i like the old GW back in may 2005
You don't like the addition of faction? You don't like the bug fixes? You don't like the fact that you can no longer spam entire parties to death with an Elmo using Zealots Fire and Divine Boon?

I know what you mean, but there are changes that have been made that were certainly for the better

milias

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

28 Sep 2006 at 18:08 - 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
i think Anet/NCsoft has the probable per cent of people in your bracket that will quit.

also the number who will benefit and stay longer.

i think this is a game market bottom line thing.

we lose a fraction percent over here and gain 10 per cent over there
It's hard to quantify the exact outcome of this kind of change, in terms of lost or gained revenue. But one thing is for sure, people will quit if this were to come to pass. On the other hand, there's no guarantee that people will stay longer if ANet implemented this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
That's because you're looking at it wrong. Ingore these panicked fools and their obsession with gold. Take the casual guy like me who will, once I've set up my own heroes nicely, salvage things like the 15>50% and sell them for a few K (maybe 5 to 10) or less, depending on the mood, so that other casual players will be able to equally equip themselves. THIS is how casual players will be benefitted, by the simple fact that there will be enough people out there that are not obsessed with greed in an economy that doesn't exist to help drive prices down to realistic levels.

Hey, as long as I have enough gold for personal use, I'm happy.
You're looking at it from your own perspective. Whether that's right or wrong is more of a philosophical debate. But from ANet's perspective, losing players is never a good thing, however you look at it.

Lucifer PVP

Lucifer PVP

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Refuge From Exile [RFE] Refuge-From-Exile.com

W/Mo

28 Sep 2006 at 18:08 - 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Netherborn

Abuses are meant to be fixed. From the way I see it, Anet has a pretty good track record of fixing abuses.
They do a pretty good job... since they nerf the rockmolder, gave everyone an HOD sword the only things they have left to change are the unconditional weapons .. you know the weapons that give 13 14 15 percent with no requirement that were the result of an exploit and HOD axe.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

28 Sep 2006 at 18:09 - 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
hero system aint a good idea..i like it but it is bad idea... i meant even with collector's items they still aint cheap. i woudl require them with green itmes from Cantha. hp30+energy+5 head already over 15k. so.. green is probabl better. and i Never like any change from anet, none of them. i like the old GW back in may 2005
Well, at least your honest.

Tommy, the prices will hopefully go down so we can properly equip all our heroes.

Even if we can't, though, they are still better than Henchies, and a great idea (the ability to control their skills is just awesome).

Quote:
Originally Posted by milias
It's hard to quantify the exact outcome of this kind of change, in terms of lost or gained revenue. But one thing is for sure, people will quit if this were to come to pass. On the other hand, there's no guarantee that people will stay longer if ANet implemented this.

You're looking at it from your own perspective. Whether that's right or wrong is more of a philosophical debate. But from ANet's perspective, losing players is never a good thing, however you look at it.
Anet has the data it needs to make these decisions. They know the average worth of every character, they know the % of farmers vs casual players, and they know that if they're going to continue to attract new players under a "no grind" guise, then they need to make some serious changes on Item drops.

You're right, we don't know, but I doubt Anet will not do anything that costs them more customers than it will net.

leprekan

leprekan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posers and Wannabes [nubs]

W/E

28 Sep 2006 at 18:10 - 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Yes.



Re-read what I said. I agree. Hence the rollback.



Yeah, that was my weakest argument. I can't explain why Sup Ab. were increased in drops, but Sup Vigors weren't.

BTW, do you think it would be a bad thing if Sup Vigors went down to 1k?

If so, why?



Sure you do...

The only reason you've given so far that this would be "bad", is somehow it would keep the casual players from buying 15k armor. I already proved you wrong on that. As for FoW, as someone said, they could actual get the Ecto and Shards they need without buying them. Sure, it's a lot of work, but I suppose that's what getting FoW armor is all about (or should be about, anyway).

But let's stop beating around the bush. First, it was "no vanity skins for casual players." Now it's "no +30 HP mods for casual players?"

Why not? Please explain how your "good will" towards the game somehow prevents casual players from getting +30 HP mods and rare skins?

And please give a reason (a real reason), why this would be bad for players in general, not just current farmers and traders.
LOL,

It is you that needs to reread all of my posts. You didn't agree you pointed the finger at "a few" when it was closer to everyone logged on the game. I was one of the ones that emailed support to tell them. Sup vig down to 1k ... you are not reading my posts the economy needs some items to be worth something to help control grind. Yes, after 5 months you got a set of 15k armor WOOT!!!! Now how about your other 5 chars most dont want to wait 10 years to put armor on their chars. You must like grind because taking 5 months to get a set of 15k armor is grind. Farming the FoW materials? Please..... I was one of the VERY FIRST with a full set (as in the week they fixed the bug so you could buy it). Before you go there ... I don't wear it courtesy of the ebay rich. Sorry but Cheap vanity skins are already available they have higher reqs same with one off upgrades. If you are seriously playing the game to play ... the higher req and 1hp do not matter. If they do matter to you then somebody has the little green demon called jealousy on their shoulder.

Clawdius_Talonious

Clawdius_Talonious

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Screwston, Tejas

KOS

N/Me

28 Sep 2006 at 18:14 - 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by milias
It's hard to quantify the exact outcome of this kind of change, in terms of lost or gained revenue. But one thing is for sure, people will quit if this were to come to pass. On the other hand, there's no guarantee that people will stay longer if ANet implemented this.



You're looking at it from your own perspective. Whether that's right or wrong is more of a philosophical debate. But from ANet's perspective, losing players is never a good thing, however you look at it.
If people quit playing, no one really notices... I have seen so many skilled players quit playing over the last seventeen months, and they may never come back. But you know what? If you're ignorant enough to quit playing over this addition to the game, more power to you. You probably weren't much of a PVPer anyway and just some farmer who likes to sell items for an inflated price. I've given away +15%-5e Gothic Swords (req 9) in the past, to people who probably had no idea of their value and perhaps never will. The game shouldn't be about your virtual money pile, it should be about enjoying yourself. just my two cents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
If the only point in playing Guild Wars is to get "item X", what do you do after you get that item? Do you quit? Or, do you find a new goal to achieve?

As long as Anet gives us new things that we want, (which they do every 6 months), most people will probably keep playing. That's my guess, anyway.
I have my 15k Luxon Sentinels and my Kanaxis and Exaulted Aegis on my Warrior, I am still working on 3000 hours

leprekan

leprekan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posers and Wannabes [nubs]

W/E

28 Sep 2006 at 18:20 - 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
i will not even try to find the posts here and at TGH from expert PVP players (and PVE) who have stated they were the winner and had 9 (or less) hp left.

you yourself have probably seen some of those same posts.

without that extra -1 which adds up over an attack and that +9 they would have lost.

necessary if you are serious.
No offense, but I made it to rank10 and never once was it 9hps that won the battle. Bringing pvp into this is kind of laughable aside from a few now nerfed weapons pvp was created so that all could be equal. You unlock a sup vigor it is unlocked for all toons created on that account. IF the pvper wants a vanity skin that is their choice not their right.

milias

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

28 Sep 2006 at 18:22 - 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawdius_Talonious
If people quit playing, no one really notices... I have seen so many skilled players quit playing over the last seventeen months, and they may never come back. But you know what? If you're ignorant enough to quit playing over this addition to the game, more power to you. You probably weren't much of a PVPer anyway and just some farmer who likes to sell items for an inflated price. I've given away +15%-5e Gothic Swords (req 9) in the past, to people who probably had no idea of their value and perhaps never will. The game shouldn't be about your virtual money pile, it should be about enjoying yourself. just my two cents.
Oh people have noticed. I've seen many threads that talk about shrinking guild membership, fewer people in outposts/chapters, etc., etc., aside from threads where people claim they're quitting Guild Wars outright. I think it's naive to think that people won't quit no matter what ANet does.

But again, it's probably a little too early to make the decision anyway. Let's wait till ANet officially confirms or denies this.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

28 Sep 2006 at 18:22 - 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
LOL,

It is you that needs to reread all of my posts. You didn't agree you pointed the finger at "a few" when it was closer to everyone logged on the game. I was one of the ones that emailed support to tell them. Sup vig down to 1k ... you are not reading my posts the economy needs some items to be worth something to help control grind. Yes, after 5 months you got a set of 15k armor WOOT!!!! Now how about your other 5 chars most dont want to wait 10 years to put armor on their chars. You must like grind because taking 5 months to get a set of 15k armor is grind. Farming the FoW materials? Please..... I was one of the VERY FIRST with a full set (as in the week they fixed the bug so you could buy it). Before you go there ... I don't wear it courtesy of the ebay rich. Sorry but Cheap vanity skins are already available they have higher reqs same with one off upgrades. If you are seriously playing the game to play ... the higher req and 1hp do not matter. If they do matter to you then somebody has the little green demon called jealousy on their shoulder.
I suggest you re-read my posts. I don't consider playing the game "grind". The fact it took so long to get my first 15k armor is of no importance... if I wanted to get it faster, I would have farmed. But, it's a "vanity" item, so I'm in no hurry. And as for your argument that somehow devaluing items will make grind more: for what?!? What are people grinding for, 15k armor? LOL, I'd rather have cheap access to all the mods and skins than a small chance to get a rare item that would pay for my 15k armor in one farming run. But, maybe that's just me...

Rest assured, though, I'm not jealous of you. I'm doing just fine, with or without Inscriptions.

I'm just saying, you act like what you want is for the "good of the people", but if you really wanted what was "good for the people", you would want everyone to have equal access to the same mods. I don't even care about skins, I'm just talking mods.

So, again, quit dodging the question and answer: How would it hurt the game generally to have cheap mods and Sup. Vigors available for all?


Please, answer the question instead of attacking my character.

EDIT: For the sake of argument, if one trades nothing, how much can they farm in an hour? (just talking gold drops and merchant sales). This is worst case scenario, if somehow everything becomes absolutely worthless because of Inscriptions.

milias

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

28 Sep 2006 at 18:25 - 319
Alright guys, let's try to have a meaningful discussion without getting all worked up over this. And let's try to keep flaming/personal attacks to a minimum.

leprekan

leprekan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posers and Wannabes [nubs]

W/E

28 Sep 2006 at 18:33 - 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
I suggest you re-read my posts. I don't consider playing the game "grind". The fact it took so long to get my first 15k armor is no importance... if I wanted to get it faster, I would have farmed. But, it's a "vanity" item, so I'm in no hurry.

And, LOL, I'm not jealous of you! I manage to play this game just fine without Sup Vigor or + 30 mods!

I'm just saying, you act like what you want is for the "good of the people", but if you really wanted what was "good for the people", you would want everyone to have equal access to the same mods. I don't even care about skins, I'm just talking mods.

So, again, quit dodging the question and answer: How would it hurt the game generally to have cheap mods and Sup. Vigors available for all?

Please, answer the question instead of attackign my character.
I have answered that since my first post. If everything is easily attained people grow bored and move on. Enough people leave and Anet will not sell enough chapters to merit the running of the servers. I believe my first post was around page 9 feel free to start there. I have read your posts ... including the one where you stated it would be your last since it wouldn't have an effect on you. The good of the people is this game still being alive a year from now ... lose enough people and it won't be. People need goals to work for in a game or it quickly becomes boring. Please do not bring titles into this it is 6million for treasure hunter ... obviously gold is required to meet many of those challenges. Everyone has equal access it comes down to how much effort you are willing to put into obtaining these things.