Vote on PvP access control over PvE areas.

But i didnt say dabbling would get you HoH did I? Did I? *confused, reads own posts* Nope i never said that.

So what are we arguing about?

Oh you mean i cant have fun just because i dont win HoH? Thats kind of...strange to say.

I can have fun in RA, TA, HoH, GvG, AB, Hero Battles. Doesnt mean i have to win. Or be hardcore.

As was said before, this game is supposed to be fun.

By the way, if PvP must control PvE, why not charge 1000 Balthazar Faction to gain access, deducted from everyone in the party, entry refused if someone can't pay up, just as if they're not ascended?

That way, everyone would need to work for access, not just a handful of fame junkies who couldn't care less which region has favor.

I vote no. Winning favor is so unbalanced and it's not fair that some area's have limited or no access to the UW and FOW.

I'm not going to debate at length whether it would be difficult to remove the Favor system, but it's hard to imagine removing a part of the program that links victories in HA to unlocking FoW and UW would break the game. Far greater obstacles have been surmounted, changed, added to this game. The Faction system? Heroes? Changes to the Skill Menu. Skill nerfs and buffs? New maps?

Your idea of what is possible and impossible seems limited in scope compared to the abilities of GW programmers.

Insofar as you appeal to philosophy as opposed to the revolting masses' opinions, I would venture the strongest actual arguments put forward so far in this debate have been those of the 'No's'.

If you wish to invoke the word 'philosophy' in your defence of the current system, then i suggest you use some. Philosophy that is.

In these forums we see a constant opposition between PVE/PvP players.
But I must say that most guilds I have been in do both. So I don't feel this opposition in-game. We organize PVE evenings (especially Elite ones) as well as GvGs.
And one issue is that we can't organize FoW or UW weekends properly as we can't know if we will have favor. So we brought at least one character from each member into DoA quickly to make these Elite evenings.
On the same time, we do GvG or (and quite more rarely since HA went back to 8v8) HA.

I think most people expressing on these forums are extreme PVEers or PvPers. So all this flaming.
I don't think reality in-game is like this.

You having fun != everyone having fun

RA, TA, GvG and HB's don't control access, PvE'ers can steer clear of those if they want. HoH controls access to UW and FoW.

For the average PvE player, waiting in HA to form a party for several hours due to the lack of Rank != fun
For other PvE'ers that are running a cookie cutter build, join a rankless party after some time, start playing and get taken out while trying to get Favor so that PvE'er can access UW/FoW != fun

Your region needs favor to access. ATM, no problem for Europe (where I'm at), but how many Japanese or Taiwanese players have seen either of those areas?
Let people play the game, not wait around while others try to open the door.

Because this thread is about Favor and whether hardcore PVP players should control access to UW and FOW via Favor or not. It seemed like you were saying that dabbling in PVP should be required by every player, and therefore implying that that makes it ok for PVP players to control Favor.

My counterpoint was that even if one "dabbled" in PVP, that is 100% useless to anything related to getting Favor.

Hence, if your point about "dabbling in PVP should be required" was not in any way related to Favor, then what does it have to do with the topic of this thread?

For the record, just because i like the WaW concept, does not mean i believe it is perfect.

As ive said before, it should be tweaked, not removed. Ive suggested other ways to enter FoW/UW even if your region does not have favor (like beating the Warden of the Rifts) as well as modifying the victory stipulations to a total of 5 vs 5 in a row (Tug of War concept).

Regardless of how strong the "No"s are. I still vote "Yes". Like i said, feel free to disagree. These arguements are fun for me. So go ahead.

To me, the original concept and design flow of Guild Wars is PvE to PvP. It makes it unique and compelling and gives a great experience.

The two should be intrinsically and mutually linked. Anet continues to sever these ties to please the masses and that makes me sad.

I don't care if i stand alone. I know what i like and nothing you say can change that.

edit:
"To take full advantage of Guild Wars and enjoy it to its fullest extent requires dabbling in both PvP and PvE."

Im sorry that does seem like that. Let me clarify.

I feel that GW has great PvE and great PvP. If you dont use both sides of it, you really arent getting the most out of the game you paid for.

the arguement that fun is what you get out of it is quite valid also, but imo its still not the fullest extent of what the game has to offer.

Im not exclusively saying this as reference to HoH/GvG/UW/FoW. Im just generalizing the overall Guild Wars experience.

This arguement is in response to those who argue about how seperated PvP and PvE is, when my arguement is that, its not.

Lyra, the design philosophy was broken the day they introduced Balthazar Faction, and even more so the day of the PvP unlock packs.

Thanks to those changes to the original 'design' we have PvP fanatics who can afford to not play any PvE at all. They can devote every last second of their playing time to improving their PvP skills.

On the other hand we have PvE afficionadoes who have no intention at all to hone their skills to such an extent, yet they are still forced to partake of PvP.

Broken beyond belief.

They took the first step when they 'liberated' PvP. It's high time they take the what would by any sane standard be inevitable second step.

I agree completely. Like i said, just because Anet did something to please the players, doesn't mean the players are right.

And as such, even though i disagree. Im not realistic about my expectations. So even though i disagree, i highly doubt Anet will listen to me.

So dont feel so annoyed with me. ;p

My opinion does not stop you from having fun.

edit:

At least i hope not. O.o i didnt know i had some sway in your gameplay.

It does when you want your vision of combined PvP and PvE to be played by everyone. We're not asking you to play PvE or PvP exclusively. We just want to choose our destiny, just like you do.

If your idea of a good time is combating guys called Sh4d0w L3g0l4s and spamming your /rank when you score a kill - all strength to you!

If, directly following your glorious victory, you wish to join a random PUG at Thunderhead Keep with your monk and get blamed for the loss when the mouthy wammo lights the beacons and starts the bonus without telling anyone - all strength to you!

Just don't make us have fun your way, and we promise, we swear, we really won't try and make you have fun our way.

As I said....

If the OP can suggest an alernative way to gain favour and keep it then im with yes. If not then no.

I actually do find spending gold to play the FOW or UW a bad thing. Alot of people actually scam using that system too. And when we have other elite missions in factions and NF which are harder and free, it doesnt seem justified anymore.

Either they make FOW and UW free all the time, or they add a PvE way to win/keep favour.

Both factions and NF have challenge missions we could use to gain favour if they were tweaked somehow.

NO!

Futhermore PvP skills should be modified seprately from PvE skills for "balance" reasons. No offense to anyone but PvP ruin's the PvE expiriance IMO.

Oh come off it. :P Do you seriously think Anet will listen to me?

Favor has been, is, and will continue to be broken!

It is unfair to allow a few (read minority) of players to affect the majority's enjoyment and access to high end content.

Anet should just scrap the entire Favor concept for access to the UW and FoW.

To sum up: NO!

I've never liked the way Anet set up PvP to affect the PvE players. Its not that its a bad idea, but I think they could have worked it a better way.


I think they should integrate pvp & pve more to make gaining access to UW and FOW actually mean something to the PvE croud. Make is so the PvE players need to fight to hold and control the towns that require access to UW and FOW. Similar to how Alliance battles are set up for PvE players in Factions. It would be a lot more fun if I played some type of Alliance battle to control UW and FOW. I would actually have something worth fighting for. But the way it is today is just retarded, because I would have to go to HOH and waste time trying to find a group, and since Im rank2 Ill never get a group, especially with my PvE build that I enjoy playing.

Im just gonna toss this in, an idea mentioned over in Sardelac before.

The notion is. Keep World at War but tweak it for faster region changes.

Instead of requiring a region to win 5 in a row to gain favor, they only required to win 5 total through a tug of war concept.

Example:

Europe has Favor. Having Favor means you have 5 wins.

America wins 1. Europe now only has 4.
America wins another 1. America has 2. Europe has 3.
Europe comes back and wins 1. America has 1. Europe has 4 again.
Korean wins 1. America has 1. Europe has 3. Korea has 1.
America wins another 1 again. America has 2. Europe has 2. Korea has 1.
Europe comes back and wins 1. America has 1. Europe has 3. Korea has 0.

This makes gives more leeway. Instead of 1 win completely invaliding 4 in a row, all it does is set back a region by 1 victory.

in addition

PvE Parties can earn favor FOR THEMSELVES through a PvP battle vs another team attempting to enter FoW or UW.

This leaves solo farmers to wait for Favor. Balanced teams can go have fun in FoW/UW by killing another team.

It can also lead to teams resigning or losing intetionally to grant the other team acces via spike joining, but Anet would need to resolve such issues.

No thanks, can't really look forward to: r6+ IWAY LF 3 IWAY FOR FOW! SHOW EMOTE!

(answer to OP question)

I would suggest one of two things.

1 - Trial of the Gods

If you were attempting enter a God's realm without their favor you would first have to complete a task lore related to that God. For Balthazar, you would be pitted against endless waves of enemies from all directions. You would simply have to outlast them for a certain period of time before your group would be deemed worthy of entry. (similar strategy to the Zos Shivros Challenge mission).

For Grenth, you would be responsible for safeguarding NPC spirits to the Underworld. Again, similar to the quest from the first Reaper except beef up the difficulty.

In both cases, none of the enemies you fight would yield loot or experience. If you simply completed the task, you would be then sent into the realm as if you spent the 1k.

2 - Anger of the Gods

You can enter the realms at any time, however you are severely penalized for displeasing the Gods; an environmental effect known as Anger of the Gods. Something along the lines of enchantment, stances, shouts, chants, and skills have their durations cut by 25%, and you suffer 10% more damage from all sources. Just something to greatly up the difficulty of you entering without their favor.