Vote on PvP access control over PvE areas.

Mark me down as a NO, Rene. My level of PVP is absolutely zero. I am exclusively a PVE player.

I've read a lot of discussion about how to better marry PvP and PvE. And I do have this suggestion for a structure change that merges PVP and PVE a little more!

1) PvE teams in the region that has favor may enter UW and FoW at no cost.
2) PvE teams in the regions that do not have favor must donate 1K to the gods to enter, as usual.
3) The number of teams paying 1K to access FOW and UW during each cycle of HA is *TRACKED.* The PvP team that wins receives a modestly larger reward for victory - the reward would be a combination of extra Balthazar faction, extra fame, and extra gold/loot. The exact amount of extra reward would be calculated based on the number of PvE teams that have to pay to enter UW and FoW.

Sound interesting? I really think this would be a good idea if implemented properly.

-Kate Soulguard

As I posted above, Anet has a Dev poll going right now on asking for votes on Heroes Ascent Team Size, and you will find a lot of PvP commentary there.

Insofar as HoH victory rewards go, they already have a Fame Title, a special Rank emote, and the contents of the chest, which include weapon skins found nowhere else in Guild Wars.

Having said that, I don't care how big a reward they get. Give them more incentives, I *don't* care. I just want access to UW and FoW without relying on PvP results.

The only necessary suggestion has been given many times: simply remove Favor from the game. That is all that is required. And best of all it would require minimal dev resources to implement as opposed to making something new that may potentially be even worse than the current system is (ie: some of the ideas to change Favor in a way that screws farmers over ).

This thread is NOT PvP vs PvE all out war, this is about wether PvP should be controlling parts of PvE.

I would say (From my OWN experience ONLY) the reason Guru and GWO houses so many PvE players is because majority of players are PvE based (or both), I can't count GvG'ers but with the number of districts (1-200) I see during Wintersday (among other) events in LA/Kamadan, and then during things like the HA test weekend (in american servers) there are hardly near that many in HA. I have no problem with PvP or the people who play PvP, and that is NOT what this thread is about, we are discussing wether PvP should control any part of PvE. Stop jumping in and say "PvP all the way", we are not saying PvPtehsuxors.

I put my vote down as no. And put me down for ten votes (I used to live in Chicago so I know how to stuff ballots).

Favor only makes sense if you remove the International Districts from HoH (did you hear the American Server PvPers scream at that?). It has been said on this forum several times that no self respecting American HoHer (or whatever you call them) actually tries to pick up a group on the American Servers. However, I am not into HoH at all unless guildies are looking for one more, I don't profess to be an expert on the topic, so it may be completely off-base.

Now, to put the PvEer's side into the equation, imagine how much screaming you would hear from the PvP world if HoH was only accessible if your server was the most recent server to have a PvE group complete Hell's Precipice 4 times in a row without any other server having a group complete it. Sounds pretty ridiculous right? Hmm, sounds a bit like the favor system in reverse. See how it sucks now? Until there is a PvE based favor affecting PvP, there will be no validity to the current system. Note: I do not at all support any form of PvE favor affecting PvP.

I saw that Dev poll, but I guess I didn't read it really since it involves PvP and I missed your earlier post amoung the endless sea of replies....sorry.

Big no. I'd like to get into elite areas whenever.

hey, at least I'm honest =D

Yes i agree. There really should be. It is only logical.

However i do not think it should be a lock-out but rather an enhancement system.

As is, HoH has a random gametype setup.

Imagine if there were certain PvE quests for the glory of Balthazar. These quests would be very difficult and have a decent reward and have a manipulation on map situations in HA. I would be interesting if PvE could influence which game types come up in HoH.

i think it would be interesting.

I've deleted a lot of my posts to summarise some points in one place.

* Some say the prices of Ecto and Shards will plummet if UW and FoW are always open.
Heaven forbid the players' fun should displace the traders' need for inflated prices. You are right. Traders should perhaps control access to HA, in order that their needs are met.
But this doesn't make sense anyway, considering that many rare items drop in areas outside UW or FoW. eg: Black and White Dyes, Rare Gold Weapons, Diamonds, Sapphires, Rubies, Runes of Superior Vigor (miscellaneous other Runes), Icy Dragon Swords. This is a far from comprehensive list.

* I feel bad for small servers like Taiwan or Japan, but then essentially, the Favor system makes playing on small servers a bad decision if you want access to UW or FoW. No doubt the concentration of players on Europe and America adds to the ingame lag issues. Lag affects people regardless of PvP or PvE preference.

* Some say GW fun can only be had in combining PvE and PvP.
Well, the number of people that play exclusively PvP and PvE is large. Whatever your opinion of how to have fun is, is irrelevant to what makes things fun for others. No one is telling you you have to play PvE, but you are telling me I have to play PvP. You controlling the way I have fun is not fun. The whole concept of arguing about fun is absurd when you have a lot of people telling you how little fun they're having, at any rate.

* Some say there needs to be a new system that grants other rewards to HoH victors.
All I can say, is that if the system is currently so bad that player would be happy to pay their gold to HoH teams to get access to UW and Fow, the system is presently very bad indeed. Imagine a new player coming to Guild Wars:
Brand new GW player at ToA: Isn't it unfair I'm paying my gold to that HA team?
Veteran GW player: Ha! You should have seen what it used to be like with the Favor system!

Dont forget that real farmers have accounts on multiple servers. Whoever has favor doesnt affect them.

I agree. Thats why I posted ideas to tweak the server system and make favor turnovers easier and faster as well as alternatives access if your server doesnt have favor.

Your mileage may vary. PvE is fun for me. PvP is fun for me.

If your experience in either one or the other is negative, thats rather unfortunate. But for me, finding the right people to play with and have fun with is really what its all about, if the people you play with are jerks, it wouldnt matter if its PvE or PvP. PvE has bad pugs and so does PvP. I would suggest trying PvP again, but thats up to you.

However. I do agree that you should be able to access FOW or UW through your own actions in addition to the WaW system. You should access your own fun.

I think HoH has enough rewards already. fame and HoH chests.

Plain and simple and i have my reasons but they would confuse most of you.

ANET keep up the good work. GW FTW!!!!

Of course, by not revealing them, you remain safe from philosophical competition, which i might add, is ironic for someone in love with the PvP dynamic.

this feels to much like a PVP vs PVE thread... or is at least turning into one.
can people remember what this thread is about please?

anyway, i like the favor concept. however, i do think that there should be another way for people to get into FoW/UW without favour.
a simple example would be paying 2K instead of 1K if u didnt have favor. just an idea.

I don't think HA should dictate who can go to UW and FoW at all. But it would be a Great Idea if you could go to the UW in Lonar's Pass no matter who has Favor. Of course Droks runner could just run to Grenth's Temple in Lonars Pass but he probably won't have the build needed to farm it. You would need a full team to get through to the end of Lonar's and then you could go to Underworld from Grenth's Statue that is already there , No update would be required. This would be a great way for a Leet group or a guild to get together and have fun. Seeing as Lonar's Pass is a challenge in and of itself it would be a great reward to be able to Visit the underworld at the end of it. The way it is now if you try to get a Pug together in Beacons to be able to get to the underworld by the time you get to the Temple of Grenth your region might not have favor by the time you get there!

Thanks for reminding us. This thread is basically about the Favor system. Apart from vague commentaries about how neato it is to have combined PvP and PvE - which the Favor system is *not*, can anyone actually think of a single good side to the Favor system for PvE players?

We get to see a neat message every [Length in Minutes of HoH Match+Delay] about some guild/person with a funny name?

I don't see any reason for the Favor System other than the Lore (even though America, Europe, Korea, Japan, Taiwan etc have NOTHING to do with the Lore in GW) or that it is the only link (besides Town Control, wich I DO consider PvP gained) between PvP and PvE. With all the current changes that have been going through GW I wouldn't be suprised if something like this was put into testing.

There was a small lock out before. You needed to be Ascended with at least 1 character. That's gone. Everything is on the Battle Isles now and can be fully unlocked by PvP. Why would Anet revert it back?
There is no restriction on PvP areas, yet there is on PvE areas. Why? A restriction like DoA is understandable, as it can be unlocked by completing PvE (only good thing from DoA IMO), but Town Control and Favor make no sense at all.

PvE to influence game types by manipulating maps is a bad idea, as it may be abused to player's advantage, in which case there will (again) be an uproar to revert that back.

As a PvPer, no. The system is unfair and outdated. I'm undecided whether there should be some restriction, but PvP shouldn't be it.

I vote no. Ive been thinking this for months, so have many others WOuld be nice to go to fow or UW whenever i wanted.

Favor sucks but what other way is there to limit access to FoW/UW?? can't allow everyone access all the time.

There for I vote "yes"

NO! GW is about the only game I think of that discourages players from trying out some of its content. I have no idea what the conversations at Anet were like when they were thinking this up... "What? Somebody that bought our game expects to play it at times that are convienient for them? That will never happen!"

Yes, and I'd like to see even a more stronger connection between PvE and PvP. For example... I want PvE characters to have an advantage in PvP again. So people create themselves a PvE and get a lot of stuff for them. That way you know that you have at least someone that knows how his characters works. Maybe newbs to PvP have more chances to get a Party ^^ Who knows.

As a casual player my answer would be 'NO'. And even if I wasn't a casual player, it would still be 'NO'. The whole idea of making access to PvE areas dependant on PvP battles is ludicrous.

Here's a simple idea that someone else posted that I want to extend and emphasize.

Leave favor in the game, just have it change the cost of entry to either FoW or UW. If your region has favor then its still 1k, but if your region lacks favor, the price jumps to say 10k. So if folks really want to get in, they still can it just gold sinks a bit more out of the bloated GW economy. I'm putting 10k out there as a random number. The actual value would have to be something large enough to make it distinct from the nominal 1k entry, but not so expensive that your average PvEr could reasonably see paying.

Reason why europe has favor 90% of the time: all the americans got tired of waiting for favor and did a region swap :P

back on topic...

The favor idea is a double-edged sword, really. It helps tie the game together, yes (we are all playing the same game), but it can really annoy a PvE person like myself. I get favor from 9:00pm to around 10:00pm usually, because American wins it, then Europe or one of the asian countries takes it away. Can't do too many runs in UW with my W/Rt or Rt/Me on that kind of time.

So, I think they need to rework the system. My vote is no.

I vote no. Separate PvP and PvE entirely.

My vote is: NO.

I find it curious that PvE is made to be dependent upon PvP. On GW, these are separate, independent forms of gameplay. Yet many aspects of PvE gameplay seem to be at the mercy of PvP. For this reason (as a primary PvE player) I feel second-best to the PvP players.

no...................

I'm not sure I understand why access to FoW/UW needs to be limited, unless you also think access to all late game/difficult areas should be limited. I suppose the other areas would be Sorrow's Furnace, Tombs of Primeval Kings, Urgoz Warren, The Deep, Domain of Anguish, and not omitting of course, Heroes Ascent (chuckle).

Still, if a difficult area is, well, 'difficult', isn't that difficulty it's own obstacle to overcome?

Furthermore, in the same way as a player has earned the right to explore the Fire Islands by beating the missions to get there (Thunderhead Keep amongst them), the 'right' to explore Urgoz and The Deep should be available to all who have conquered Arborstone/Boreas Seabed. The Domain of Anguish is available to 'Ascended' characters, and FoW/UW also requires characters to be 'Ascended'.

One of the great underlying problems with the Favor system in particular, is that at its core, it states in big bold letters: PvP people are more important than you.
The unwarranted snobbery and elitism you often see from *some* PvP people, stems from this system. Wiser PvP people and PvE people know it's unwarranted, but for the less informed, and at a subconscious level, and when you're waiting for Favor to maybe do an UW quest before bedtime, it is a reality.
We know the skills required for PvE and PvP are different. We know some Templates are easy to use in both types of game. Any idiot can use a Barrage/Pet Ranger or MM build, and any idiot can use a Starburst E/A build or Touch Ranger build.
The competition between a PvE build and an Enemy is dependant mainly on the Skills Template of an enemy (soloed an Ancient Skale recently?), and the competition between a PvP build and another PvP build is mainly in the Skills Template of your opponent.

All of our successful Skill Templates are valid. All of us need to use our brains and our reflexes planning for a fight and fighting it. There is no reason PvP should moderate access to PvE areas. There would be no reason even if PvP was more difficult than PvE.

PvP skills moderate access to PvP rewards. PvE skills should moderate access to PvE rewards. The Favor system is not a merging of PvP and PvE. It promotes conflict and division, not mutual respect.

Yes
The system is fine. Europeans were whinning when America used to have favor 90% of the time, now its the other way around. Cry less.

Obviously no. Back when players actually stayed in their regions own district in HA, it was a neat gimmick. Now that everyone in HA piles in ID the favor system is nothing but a completely useless annoyance. It should have been removed a long time ago.


VOTE: NO.

And just to point something out: I NEVER go to UW and Woe. Im 90% PvP player. Anyone voting yes is likely not a pvp player and is instead probobly just a vengefull european PvE'er who thinks its "AHAHAHAHAA" so funny that now they always get favor when they werent five months ago ( *cough* Like the poster directly above me *cough* ). Its not funny, its retarded. Any honest pvp player who looks at how Halls is now knows that the favor system needs to either be reworked, or completely scrapped. I dont care about UW, but having it affected by a bunch of players playing in ID is unfair to PvE'ers.

The only way I can see keeping the favor system would be to make it so teams that enter from ID do not affect favor. If Anet changes that, then the favor system will be fine.

Really? Would you, in your infinite wisdom, identify the continent where every single one of the 78 people voting "NO!" lives?

I'll start you off: I'm European and have always played on the Euro servers. I have always believed the favor system was a load of red engines, regardless of who held favor.

77 'whiners' left to go. Good luck!

P.S. being smug will never win you an argument. It will just make you look smug. And yes, I do see the irony.

I am going to have to agree with Rene. I would definetly enjoy accessing major points of the game at my own will.

- Perhaps we could come up with a mutual decision..

.............no

And your point? Theirs a lot of other countries out their who have had favor less than Europe and America, some that do not get favor at all ever, in part because their much smaller. These people may want to buy certain things or even fow armor but that cant even do that without being able to get into UW and FoW. It restricts them from getting the thigns they want in the game let alone paying for certain weapons they may desire where the currency people ask for is ecto alot, how are these people even to have the money to buy the ecto for these items (especialy since its not going to be sold in their district as no one would have it) and international districts are rarely visited upon and the chances of going into one and be able to buy ecto for their use is very slime to none.

I posted once already my answer is still NO but I felt i needed to leave feedback to some people out their. And I didnt notice so this post may be 'too soon' for me to be able to post it but im posting it anyways cause this is a discussion type thread.

yes, enough farming as is.

Yes. Leave it this way..

Yes and the reason to this is that American servers are more stable than say European.PvP guilds have switched to American servers and I heard of some PvE guilds who have switched to Europe.I still support the connection between PvE and PvP.I still hear America having favour up till midnight my time or even past that.

Because access to UW and FoW is limited, more farming occurs, not less.

It takes a lot longer to farm the gold you need to *buy* Ectos, than it does to farm directly for Ectos you require.

So, if you want less farming (for whatever reason), your vote should also be 'No'.

Sorry, but I think your PvP guilds switching to American servers argument would mean that America has Favor more often.

Which has nothing to do with most of the arguments which illustrate how a minority dictates the access and availabiltiy of high end content across 3 campaigns for the majority of players.