PC Gamer May 2007 Information - "Guild Wars Reborn"

I kinda like the swimming and jumping part. Submerged aeromancing anyone?

All the main things that made Guild Wars Guild Wars (level cap, only one race, taking your awesome characters to new campaigns, etc) are being changed.

I too sympathise with you... because i too have 6 characters with whom i passed 3000+ hours. But, like everything, it has to end some day... like it or not...

The only thing that i regret will be keeping the name of my char in GW2... and whether it the Legendary titles or Godlike equipment, i can;t be bothered with it...

And i agree with you about GW being too PvP ...but from the info, i am guessing that Anet knows about that...that the pve ppl are not concerned too much about pvp...hence the better pve content in GW2 (the info in the mag)...

A better PvE and prolly a roughly same balanced mechanics for pvp... i can only be happy about the future of GW

The only thing on this thread more tiring than the endless "OMG WoW" posts are the "stop complaining, wait and see" posts.

Then what? We should wait until we have a 100% complete game in our hands, it's set in stone, and then bitch, when it's utterly too late?

Nah, I'll do my bitching now, thanks, when it might be needless, but then again, it might do some good.


Instancing: Forget kill stealing, boss queues, etc. Let's discuss another fun thing about persistent worlds...

Did you ever feel like a HERO in GW1? You know, that groovy guy that just saved the world? I did. It's why many, many people play RPGs. We want to be legendary heroes.

That feeling is utterly incompatible with open, persistent worlds. In a land crawling with people, you're just one more jerk with a sword and goblin blood on his boots.

I won't say that GW2 sounds just like WoW, because it doesn't. It sounds much more like CoH, to me. ^_^

Anyone ever PLAY CoH? I did, for about one day. You aren't a superhero. You're just one of a million dorks, skipping around the city in flashy tights.

I was going to reply to this as well, but I'm tired and the effort is not worth the reward. I just cannot stand this "new game deal or get out" kind of mentality, when Anet purposely said "This is gonna stick for a while boys, and we're gonna haul @$$" When obviously this was false. The entire structure of PvE in GW1 will change!. Dungeons? Acts? What about Missions?... Quests?...
Why?

This isn't a minor change like Fable, to Fable:The Lost Chapters. Nor is this Diablo 1, into Diablo 2 where technology or such plans for gaming structure were near impossible, this isn't even WoW, this is a freak. They are attempting to take in what WoW does and become a leech instead of a competitor. Anet will make a few bucks from the people that do not want to pay monthly, thats it... This is obviously what they are aiming for.

Anyone here actually notice that there are only 2 kinds of PvP?
Random 100 man raids, which like enough games dont have.
Then GvG, which is the peak of PvP in GW1.

There is no HA, no random arena, no new lands to explore just little "mini expansions" you probably have to get at Best Buy, no server competition, and the level grind is going to be the worst thing for PvE characters to PvP at all. They are obviously removing, Favor: since there is a free server ordeal, Balthazaar Faction: since everything is auto unlocked.

Whatever the ordeal is, it is in the eye of the beholder. ANet I ask two things, every single update information and what it does with exact dates for GW1. Every single piece of information of GW2 you have worked on, we need to know specifics, this thread and many others on other forums will continuously degenerate this is the method you chose to release information and with thanks to the internet your asked to explain yourselves. I want a developer to actually answer some of these questions, I don't want Gaile and her mystical ventriloquist. We had enough of your public ordeal, no offence Gaile but it's a business and you're doing your job and you have to be very careful of what you even say on all levels, but we need more info then this.

Here are a few questions:
Why are you deciding not to allow character transfer? (If over 40 pages can be posted relating to this, then I expect more then a two-liner)
Why are you not attempting to follow your initial model, compared to the new proposed one, and how will it exactly work?
What do pure PvE players gain from GW2?
What do pure PvP players gain from GW2?
What is the initial price of the game and how much will the future expansions cost, along with expected time lines?
What makes Guildwars 2 different from all the competitors on the market, and obviously on the market within the next few years?
What is the definition in having the new race selection? Is it purely graphics or mechanical?

I like GW2 starting to look more like a MMO. It's Guild Wars and more massive and probably deeper gameplay and free. Damn should I be able to sleep again?

I play competitively along with other things I do for social activity, this one being a little more important to me being a guild leader and a concerned customer.

I did not play WoW for its lack in competition, as I mentioned before FURY looks like the exact thing PvP'ers may want in their gaming. I did not play WoW for its grindfest, I don't think time should evaluate skill. Yet it seems ANet thinks this is a good business model for ditching the former. I am certain I am not the only one concerned based on the posts here, I have been a fan of the works from this development team since it was the better part from Blizzard imo. Was I wrong?

I just thought of something. ANet made Guild Wars as a game that revolved around the players skill, and not grinding. We hear that they're raising the level cap to 100 and we instantly assume that we would have to grind achieve the max level. But what if ANet is working on a new system of leveling based on skill and not grinding? What if they completely scrap the experience system and replace it with a new system? Like, you have to complete X amount of quests to level up, and after a certain level, you have to complete the next mission before you can start doing quests and leveling up again. And to achieve the max level, you'll have to complete the elite mission. It sounds kinda crazy, but if ANet still believes that Guild Wars should be about skills and not grinding, then it's still possible...

Interesting thought... if they're considering an unlimited level cap then it almost HAS to be cosmetic beyond a point. You simply can't gain health, energy and attribute points forever, or you'll simply become the biggest monster in the game.

There must be balance here. A level cap that counts (as Gaile seemed to hint at) plus further levels that simply allow for certain things, perhaps weapons have minimal level requirements to use, or armors... yet these particular weapons, aside from the skin, are no different than any other max.

The fact that they'd consider no cap implies that it cannot "mean" something forever.

Edit - add on ---

What if they did this in GW now? Allow numbers to roll past 20 with no "physical" benefits, but say every 50th level (to pull out a number) you gain access to new armor and weapon skins, or possibly a slightly larger means of storage... you'd have "character advancement" beyond level 20 without destroying the soul of the game.

Thoughts?

believe me ppl are pissed thats why posts suck and my opinion is the same as the above and quote.

Now what? invest in GW2? what for? I thought Anet standed up for the genre and not mix it up. GW2 comes out then what? 2 or 3 years and cappuf again?

Why the GW2? its too soon and Anet you screwd up, i like GW the way it is you should have said "graphics engine upgrade" instead of GW2 new game, the lots of years after gw story makes no sense just because its time for better graphics.

GW had upgraded graphics and animations so why not continue that way? are you loosing players? don't think so, but with these annoucements danger is ahead in your future.

I will continue to play because i love GW but just hoped for better news GL Anet.

Well here's your answer!

I agree with you, the more I think about it (though i don't want to jump to many conclusions given the amount of information) I think its all about money now, which of course, is what is best for them, maybe not so great for us...

Agreed.

You know, this is all pretty funny. The maturity level of most of this forum absolutely astounds me. /sarcasm

I'm really not all too excited for GW2 as it stands now. I do agree with a lot of people that it seems GW is going to be losing the majority of what made it different from all of the other online games. At this point, I probably won't be buying it when it comes out.

However, this is somewhere from 1-2+ years from now. Their ideas and plans could change by then. Gaile herself already said that there are things that aren't set in stone yet. While I'm displeased with some of the ideas for it at the moment, that doesn't mean they will still be there when the game actually comes out. Or it's possible they will be, nobody knows yet.

For right now, I'm going to enjoy the game that we do have. 1-2 years, while in some respects is a short amount of time, in others is quite a while. I don't know where I'll be at in my life when the game comes out so worrying about it now really isn't going to do me any good.

That being said, I really wish everybody would stop telling the "complainers" to go away and shut up. The last time I checked, this was a forum and people were allowed to share their opinions (within boundaries, of coures). Just because it's negative does not mean that it's wrong, whiny, or "attention seeking". It just means that it's not your same optimistic point of view. While some of you that don't like the idea of the changes could state why in more constructive manners, some of you could also stop being hypocritical and calling them whiny babies.

Will complaining get them anywhere? Maybe, maybe not. Will it make Anet listen? Again, maybe, maybe not. What I do know is that Anet, on occasion, will listen to what people want or don't want. Not always, but sometimes. If they realize that there is something so widely hated by a large amount of current customers, they might rethink their plan. They also might not. Voice of dissent will often cause change. Let them have their opinions, it's not hurting you any.

Too cheap/caual to buy WoW? What the.... where did that come from? So since I don't want to grind for the rest of my life, since I like the lvl 20 cap, since I love love love! Guild Wars' graphics and can't stand WoW, I'm supposed to go play WoW? How does that work? And it's not like I couldn't do the monthly fee thing either -- I played Eve before GW, and was fine with it asside from hating the feeling of being obligated to play a game (since my money was going to it every month).

Ok, now in GW I spend about 95% of my time in PvE. I'm just not a huge PvP person and I enjoy rpg'ing with friends against a common threat and what not, with the possibility of PvP when I feel like it. So that makes me cheap/casual because I'm not playing WoW? Whaaaaa?

Also, one of the main points of GW is that you can play it casually. That's been there from the beginning, so I'm not sure how you are ridiculing people for playing casually when it's encouraged...

About the 'no level cap' or incredibly higher level cap - I think it's about time that SOMETHING was done to reward players who play more than others. Don't give me the 'you become a better player!!!" song and dance - for pvp, maybe, but in pve it is very hard to stick out, yes I get complimented on my nukes when it is noticed, but there is nothing to set players apart.

That being said, however, ANet is not dumb, and they're not going to allow incredibly unbalancing from people who basically ruin their lives and play this game all day. They will probably have access to different armors, maybe different levels, a few different spells, etc.

What ANet needs to remember, however, is the situation with the elite missions in CH2. Remember how many people complained that they weren't gettign their money's worth if they couldn't access the elite missions whenever they wanted to? People here complain if they can't access everything that has been coded into the game. If there is something available to a player who reaches level 500, people will complain. So Anet needs to be very careful - my suggestion is a level cap that is much higher than the current one, but is obtainable without spending every living second on the game, so that a somewhat-hardcore player can still access basically everything eventually.

They announced only 2 types of pvp for the moment because that's the only thing that is more important ... GvG represents the core and main reason of Guild wars and the other one is a PvP for Pve ppl...

The devs created GW, i think they know what the good points are ... Which is a balanced pvp where skills are the key. Did they say that they are going to change GvG?

The only thing that they said was that PvE would be prolly have higher level cap or maybe even no level cap (which i doubt). They never mentioned anything about pvp or how it will affect pvp. It is too early to say that pvp is going to be imbalanced in GW. It is too early to criticise until the devs actually comment on the future state of pvp.

But, in your own opinion, do you think that the same devs that designed GW would be so stupid to throw everything that's good about GW away? i doubt it...

They prolly gonna keep the same balance pvp system or a roughly similar system... who knows maybe pvp and pve will be seperated from now on... and maybe even more arena in time... like GW1, where more and more arena appeared over time...

The only thing that was addressed in that articles if i read well, is pve...The devs are trying to make pve more entertaining coz they realised that with the release of NF, more ppl were already bored with the pve content...

You didn't expect it to last forever, but you would have liked to see more. Good, we're getting somewhere on the original point.

None of this seems relevant to my post you quoted, I'm not sure if you're mixing me up with someone else here.

It was earlier.

Again, I'm not sure what this has to do with the post you quoted. You seem to have finally conceded the original point of chapters promised and now you're looking for four or five more things to argue about. I haven't commented on any of these and I will not be lead down that path. Maybe you meant all of this for someone else? I don't care if you complain and I'm not asking you to stop. I wanted you to respond to the very specific post you quoted (which you've done right at the top) instead of throwing every argument you can at the wall in the hope to overwhelm the discussion.

I suppose so, but then you have a habit of flaming the most benign of posts. Yeah yeah, two wrongs, I know.

I don't get it. You know that's a drawing, right? It isn't real?

Enron cooked the books and paid the price. What's that got to do with the number of chapters Arenanet releases? I'm not going to flame, but I just see a huge catalogue of non sequiturs to what was originally quite a concise quote. I wish you would stick to the discussion.

Can someone state what we know as FACT? I mean 100% guaranteed truth, no chance of deviation regardless of the state of the world. What do we know that WILL NOT CHANGE within the course of a year and a half? From what I've read there are many plans and possibilities (and yes, some things they have said they will do), but not much in the way of substance. And even then, who says they will STICK to what they've said? They have not written anything in stone, and while I've read some good and compelling arguments against some of their proposed changes, I've seen mostly people jumping to conclusions assuming that "this is how it's going to be" without knowing all the details. I'm not saying "wait a year and a half and hope see what you've got to work with", I'm just saying we should take a step back and look at this without OMG SUPAR BIAS YUO SUK ANET attitudes. We don't know for certain how everything is going to be implemented.

Example: I am against the unlimited level idea, but I don't know how this will be introduced. Endless grinding? Endless skill points as it is now with the added bonus of having E^32th over my head? I DON'T KNOW! So why should I assume "omg grindfest World of Guildcraft lulz" when I don't know that's how it's going to be? (And no, the level cap isn't the only thing I'm concerned about, it's just an example).

Just my 2c, I open myself to flames galore.

EDIT: This was written before me while I was writing this response - damn people write fast!

These are my thoughts exactly. As they say, I couldn't have said it any better myself.

I am just too psyched about this! First off I love my character(s) and I am indeed sad that it/they cannot carry over.... However I have been begging for a new fresh start since Factions... I just couldn't get past the redundant feeling of "I've done this before, twice!" That doesn't pertain to the storyline aspect which for NF was nice.
I am sure that unless GW2 is just out of this world fun that I will indeed be going back and playing them from time to time so I can deal (besides I cannot resist the alure of pre no matter how hard I try!)... There is still a lot I would like to accomplish.

The massive battle maps just make me <3 inside because I long to take on the world! (Too much conquest in SMAC lately has me feeling the need for world domination >_>)

I cannot wait for further news and betas of leetsauceness!

I don't know if people saw this, it was posted on another thread:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Here's some good news for you guys.

We do completely understand that you want to keep your character names. After all, character names are a special part of your Guild Wars experience. So you'll be happy to know that yes, your character name will be reserved for you. If you link a Guild Wars 2 character to a Guild Wars character, the GW2 character will inherit the GW character’s accomplishments, as recorded in your Hall of Monuments. The Hall of Monuments, available through Guild Wars: Eye of the North, will provide access to unique companions, equipment, miniatures, titles, etc. that can’t be obtained any other way in GW2.

I like the whole idea of building a "family history" for my characters in The Hall of Monuments. With the timespan between Guild Wars: Eye of the North and Guild Wars 2, the whole idea that other players have suggested--passing things (even names) down "through the family" and so forth--is cool!

Worth repeating... and I just lost a bunch of reservations. Not all... but a bunch.

If what the OP states is mostly true, then I'm going to be one very happy camper. I can definitely see the beta of GW2 in my future. I enjoy the long progression to the higher levels, new "dynamic content", and the fact that there is a good possibility of new races (thank god), cause I was getting tired of just playing as a human. I've played WoW some and I just don't like it, so this news is shooting right up my alley. Also, I think this development is exactly what is needed to give this game a kick in the right direction and I have a good feeling that most of the original style that drew everyone in the first place will still be there.

I couldn't care less if they're not sticking to their original plan, as I pretty much knew that there was only so much they could do with the original plan, and that a big change was in order soon. I guess we'll see where this leads the GW community and I really hope this works out for the best. Thanks ANet!

P.S.
I have literally stopped playing for over 4 months now as I have gotten bored of the game. I haven't even bought Nightfall because I knew is was going to be more of the same. Yes there were some cool little add ons, but the overall game was the same...

This Guild Wars 2 is not IMHO is not Guild Wars 2. Its more like a new game because everything is changing.

The game doesn't even really exist yet. Don't get your shorts in a bunch about a game that is probably two years away.

If you had more experience with more games you'd probably be freaking out less. For one thing, many games are announced further out than 2 years. Many games are also delayed for a year or more, making the wait even longer. And all this time, the game constantly changes during development.

This news is like a press release saying what should have been obvious anyway: "Yes we are working on a new game because the old one is old and we need to make some money." So this is standard stuff. It happens all the time and has been happening since last century (the 90s).

I know people get very invested into one game and think of it as part of their life, but take a step back and look at the big picture. You could be married with children or dead in the ground before you even play GW2, and by then the game and/or your perceptions of it could be totally different. So ease back on the OH MY GOD YOU CAN SWIM I WANT TO KILL MYSELF stuff.

If you want to complain about something, complain about the tangible here and now stuff: Why are purchases from the in-game NCSoft store such a ripoff? Why isn't there an auction house? Offline messages? Good party search?

Send a message about stuff that really matters. Leave out the knee-jerking over technicalities like OH MY GOD NO LEVEL CAP? CEST UNE LOCO PASA?

You obviously never played teh beta of GW....


GWEN IS the GREAT DESTROYER!!!

Name em. And what parts of them that are similar.

GW is different because it focuses on PvP more than PvE.

Yep, I pretty much feels the same way. I probably gonna hold out to see if GW2 has any of the fun RPG elements that had been missing for quite a while. Auction house/Merchant shop, better LFG systems, better rewards for quests and better/flashier end game items, more endgame items, customizations goals like auras and wings etc., cooking/forging/making/***ing, house, mount, etc etc.

I could careless about the omg that's WoW stuff don't bring it here whiners. Seriously if what makes GW "unique" is basically removing all RPG elements other than looks and skills and the items that barely look different, that's not unique, its just dumbed down. I seriously can't comprehend why people don't want extra options just because WoW has it, considering WoW mostly copied from even older MMORPG like Dark age of camelot, Ragnarok Online, etc etc. If you guys truly don't want something seen before, by all means, suggest new RPG quirks to implement, but just removing them all is just idiotic, imo. Currently, GW just does not qualify as an RPG at all for me, more like a easier strategy game with a bit of RPG tacked on, with fighter style quick action...

I hadn't noticed this...

click to move means you click on the world with your mouse to move there, right? why would they get rid of this? what's the alternative? using the keyboard and mouse to move (like an FPS)? that would be horrible considering we need a free hand for using skills.

Is Guild Wars really as original as some of you are claiming? As a PvE game its really just an expansion of the hack&slash style RPG. As for those "list them" posts, you make a list of what you claim is original and I bet some other game has done it before. Of the top of my head I can only think of No Monthly Fees as its true unique feature.

I for one I'm glad Guild Wars is changing as I want new gameplay mechanics. From what comments are available it sounds to me that they have great ideas but the current game engine just doesn't cut the mustards, whats wrong with letting them make a game better than Guild Wars?

Well, this is a pleasant surprise. Ill buy the final GW1 expansion then GW2.

Since we cant take our characters into GW2 for obvious reasons could we instead give the new GW2 characters things. I mean I have Elswyth's Longbow maybe they could treat it like a family heirloom pased through the generations. That might be neat. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

I am glad to know the majority of people on this thread are on the same page. It's a good thing we get to keep out names, but GW 2 is gonna go for some bad sales. GW 2 is gonna let us know that our days and work we put into GW1 will go as a sham.

What's so special about the Hall of Monuments? Please! Not buying it. GW2 is gonna be nothing but a sad and generic WOW-clone. I laugh at the one post that's been brown nosing as if that person thinks Anet is gonna cut him a deal if doing so. Please! The majority has spoken. No migration? just extra wastes of times? Oh boy, wait til Anet waits in a few years to discover GW 2 will probably get the worse review, along terrible sales.

And thats good? changing everything?

Tired of this thread really lets just wait and see ppl ok?

I wish this was actually the case...

What seperates GW from other game you say is the balance involved in GW...
The numerous skill and actually having to think about a build and know how to use it is what makes guild wars what it is... in other words, it is not only a simple "i am running low on potion, use potions" or " i click, you die" type of gameplay that other game does... in guild wars, you actually have to think when u play...

And that is more apparent in the main point of GW1 which is GvG, ppl have to play intelligently and tactically to actually win ...it's not a matter of having better gear than opposing team... the keyword here is : TEAMWORK

That's a really good idea. Passing along especially customized items to new characters with our already created names.

ok, i really dont like the way this game is heading..all the time and for some money put into GW is pretty much wasted if you cant migrate characters. To me, new races, new worlds?! i mean i agree when people say this game sounds like a new WoW..unless some changes are made..im stickin with the original GW

Being the one who claims that this game has no unique features means you're the one who's supposed to point out which games have the features. And there are plenty of MMO's that have no monthly fee.

Characters equipment through the Hall to GW2.

That req 8 Platinum Longbow 15^50 I found... it won't go away.

For this, I am giddy.

Hold the phone...

This also means, if you think about it, that weapons stats will be the same, as well as armors and the like. If this is true, there’s no way whatsoever that we’re going to see an infinite progression of attributes or health/energy by increased leveling. Think about it… why allow us to take a 15-28 damage bow if level 100 Joe Elementalist can use flare for 4000 damage?

The more I allow reason to work its way in, the less I worry. It truly feels like level 20 isn’t dead. Get to 20 for max stats, get beyond that for frills.

I assume you mean GW. And i beg to differ, as I think GW excells both as a PvE and a PvP game. Are you implying that WoW is the only good PvE game? I enjoy not being ganked and having my kills/loot stolen, for example.
Also: saying that Anet does not know the game it created and is maintaining is going a bit too far IMHO

But that's just the point. I can't look at GW2, cause it's still two years in the future. All we have now is some sketchy data. I'm not even sure the developers have a clear-cut idea of how the game is going to be. Saying "PvP in GW2 is/is going to be garbage" seems to be a display of prophetic powers.

Yes, that's what click to move means. You click on the ground, and move there.
Anet, I only have 2 hands: one to hold the mouse, and one to press keys for skills and to attack. I refuse to mutate for your game.

Bugger off, Loomy. Why you chose my second post in this thread to pull my comments out of context is a puzzle. Plenty of people actually getting their "shorts in a bunch" in this thread, yet you choose to go after me. Makes me wonder why.
You know nothing about me or my gaming experience, so back off and stop making ridiculous statements with no fact to back it up. Your tone is offensive and condescending and I don't appreciate it.