Gaile on HoM

Here is how I understand the complaints:

GURU PERSON A:
I want HoM to be an assimilation of all of my accomplishments across all characters!

GAILE GRAY A:
But that would unreasonably confer you with special statuses in GW2. In GW2 we have the concept that a new character is 'descending' from one of your old characters. Therefore, HoM is tailored to a per character basis, since we feel that all your new characters in GW2 receiving the benefits of your entire account is unfair.

MY TAKE:
I think Gaile Gray makes sense here. It doesn't make sense. ANET could change it to this if they wanted to, but it seems to me people are just asking for the easy way out.


GURU PERSON B:
I want HoM to be an assimilation of my achievements, but I want the achievements shown to reflect on which characters I got them on!

GAILE GRAY B:
<I haven't seen a clear reply from Gaile Gray about this??>

MY TAKE:
I think that if ANET could make HoM account based, but allow us to only port over achievements from ONE CHARACTER AT A TIME for GW2, then that would be satisfactory.

What do you think, Gaile Gray?

Ok, lets take an example.

2 Guild Wars players, each having maxed 15 titles. For arguement's sake, we'll say the same 15.

The first player enjoys a particular class, and mainly plays with that class. They've not had much desire to explore other classes as primary class, but may have experimented with them as a secondary class. They may have a few characters, but their main character is the one where they've put their time - and this character has all their achievements.

With GW2, their "decendant(s)" will be able to inherit from all 15 achievements.

The second player enjoys playing over multiple main-classes, and has a level 20 character of each primary class - which meant they bought extra character slots.

Because they were playing multiple characters at once, their achievements are split among their characters.

With GW2, their "decendant(s)" will likely have a max of something like 4/5 achievements to inherit from.

Both players have invested the same time/effort, but the player with multiple characters (who had to pay extra to get the additional characters) is being penalised. Further, this player did not know that when they achieved specific titles with specific characters that they were going to be penalised for not consolidating everything on a single character, and in some cases did not have the chance to get some titles on their characters.

How is that fair?

Further, the whole "inheritance" thing itself relies on *something* being actually inheritable - so what is being passed on? Maps, diaries - a "library" of how those achievements were made? I find it hard to believe that a Cartographer title or Mission completion title would be genetic (although a sweet tooth could be *grins*).

The reason this is coming out now rather than a month ago is that when people asked about how HoM would work, there was no definitive indications. They looked at the videos, with the armour monuments containing multiple class & sex armours, and believed that indicated the HoM would be account based.

I've got no problem with only being able to choose "a few" achievements to inherit - e.g. so both those players can only choose say 3 of their titles as inherited ones for their GW2 character.

Having separate, split HoM I do have a problem with - there's no point to it, since you can see the achievements on a char with that char anyway.

Naming who got the achievement and storing them all in the same hall (or "library") would be great. The HoM effectively becomes like a Guild Hall for an individual account - which I think a lot of people thought was what would happen.

Our characters are already a family - otherwise they'd be *no* account-based titles. They already *share* resources - storage, gold, materials. So making a consolidated HoM for the "family" - and having their decendents inherit from a selection of those "consolidated" achievements (what they chose to study from the "family library" as they grew up?) - this makes sense, and is fair for both the single-character player and the multiple-character player alike.

I've still got a major problem with mini-pets being character-customised rather than account-customised, but if the HoM was consolidated it'd be of less importance.

I want to be able to visit the HoM with my Ranger, Warrior or any character on my account and see that my Necro explored Tyria and my Assassin explored Cantha.

I'll wait and see if ANet has made it this way. If not then I'll ask them to change it.

EDIT:
I'm kinda thinking along the same lines as Guru Person B. I'd wish HoM to just see all my accomplishments on my various chars in the one place. In no way do I think my char's should just automatically gain the title or armour monuments gained on one certain char for themselves, but just see that a different char on my account did. Or even 2 chars on my account did.

Also, I think it's too early to quibble about how inheritance will work in GW2. Nothing's set in stone yet.

What im wondering is how peeps with LDoA are gonna be able to put it in the hall of monuments.

My point exactly. Not only a single HoM makes sense logistically and as a game mechanic, it makes sense as a story device - in fact, much more sense than having an Asura elementalist 200 years in the future "genetically" inherit a protector trait from a human warrior who saved tyria back in GW1. If they read about it, or studied under a certain tradition or school, or even just received a nobility title (because their great-grandfather helped said human hero back in the day) from it, it'd make much more sense. And it's a much more versatile solution, as the titles could be redistributed and concentrated or dispersed at will on the GW2 chars, too.

I kinda feel the same. But at the same time, playing many, many classes of characters is what kept the game vibrant for me. If I had to play any of my characters most of the time, the game would have lost it's appeal ages ago.

I was thinking that HOM would be account based. This just plain sucks. I have every class of character available and all have beaten the 3 chapters.

I guess we can only hope that this version of the Hall of Monuments doesn't go live. At least I only worked for titles on one character...

It's ironic. Guild Wars entices players to support multiple characters, through easily obtained levels, armor, and weapons.

Now, with the rep grinds in GW:EN, it's confirmed that ArenaNet wants you to focus more on a single character.

I personally don't have a problem with it, since I only play my Necromancer, but it's a slap in the face to those who play otherwise.

Because this kind of mechanic clearly affects the way we play the game (one character vs. many characters), and because this type of decision, along with others (ie. the idea of having unrestricted level cap) is sort of dragging people who like to play with varied characters into the opposite territory.

Sure, we'll still be able to have fun playing with different chars in GW2, but if that means they'll be lacking in several cosmetic (inherited titles) and even practical (PvE grind skills, higher level) advantages, it starts to feel not only unfair, but also a complete change of heart from the dynamic and free game that GW was born as, and which pulled us in, in the first place..

Well since my idea is already up there; I have to say, I think it will create storage clutter and a type of nothingness in certain places, in each HoM per toon.

Honestly I would like to see just one HoM per account. I really don’t need to copy and paste every accomplishment, to every toon I create in GW 2. I just would love to show that I accomplished a verity of things within GW1, without the constraints of constantly switching to different toons.

You see I am probably going to have 1 set of armor, 1-3 weapons, 0-1 pet, and 0-1 minis per HoM (10 toons spread out). That’s going to make things pretty empty in certain places of my HoM’s.

The only Pro side of this whole mess is that you will have more room to move around per HoM.

I mean I see the idea that people focus on one character at a time, and make it to be verily powerful. However there are others out there, which spread their collection, resources, and time across many different toons. I mean it’s a bit unrealistic to say “well then you should focus on all the different toons equally then.” I have put in over close to three thousand hours into GW; so I should spend over thirty thousand hours trying to get the same result per toon? GW is fun, but it’s not my life.

*REMINDER.* This still contends to that I rather have a hall filled, but not a duplicate transfer accomplishments to all toons created in GW2. I don’t want all titles to just be handed over just like that either.

This guy said what I've been wanting to say for the entire life of this topic, but much better...

Also, still waiting on an explanation for the screenshots showing one HoM with armor from multiple professions...

from what i've read so far, i'm guessing ANet is most concerned about GW2 inheritences and stuff....but i mean c'mon its practically 2 years from now, i mean if the HoM and be combined to one then that could be considered a problem solved temporaily and then afterwards think of some other way so it can satisfy everyone's needs. Because right now all everyone is saying is..

--- HoM should be account based so we can see ALL our accomplishents in one place on ANY char
--- Inheritences could be spread however the player wishes to spread it when GW2 comes out ex. Tyrian GMC gives you weapon X, whereas Canthan GMC gives you weapon Y. When GW2 comes out, the player can decide how to split the family's(account's) inheritences from GW

I'm guessing this is what everyone's saying???correct me if i'm wrong =)

I don't see the problem with inheriting from multiple characters, we'll somehow be doing it across species already.

I'm sure I'm speaking for plenty of people who haven't voiced their opinion on this topic so far.

My necromancer has I'm Very Important and FoW armor.

I collect tons of rare weapons for my warrior.

My dervish is a Legendary Survivor (since my necromancer never had a chance to even attempt it).

These are all titles and things I MYSELF HAVE ACCOMPLISHED.

Reverse the direction this HoM is going in. Should each and every PVP character have their own fame and gladiator track? (Well, your monk was the only one you ever took into RA, so he's the only gladiator you *get* (because we're so nice) to have. That warrior you HA with? He's the only true hero on your account, your skills be damned.)

Would this EVER be supported? You JUST got around to doing the right thing with the favor system. Reverse of that old method would be saying that regions could only GVG when their area had beaten Hell's Precipice 100 times in the last hour. Absurd, exactly right.

The Hall of Monuments being character based is f***ing stupid. I can already press H and see that lame division of labor. The Hall of MonumentS (!!! notice the capital S at the end) should be something special. As it stands, you are only putting a 3D representation of the text I can already see a lot quicker (and $40 cheaper) by pressing a key on my keyboard at any time of the day.

A few key points:
- Minipet trader should be implemented by default.
- Character based Hall of Monuments seems like some lazy ass programmers decided it was too much work to do it right to begin with. (After all, I am quite sure that it would be LESS storage on servers to make a single monument instead of duplicates of empty data storage for characters that may never enter their monument.)
- This idea begs to be changed into a monument to the PLAYER, NOT THE CHARACTER (i.e. account vs toon) after all, its the PLAYERS who pay your bills, I suggest you take that into serious consideration.

I've pre-ordered GW:EN, I've bought all 3 collector's editions, I've dumped thousands of hours into this game.

I'm being shafted.

This preview weekend better do something EXCEPTIONALLY correct, or I can safely say that I, along with hundreds (if not thousands) of players will not be giving ANet another chance to correct their faults.

*edit* For all of you asking why there are multiple characters in the hall in some of the videos or screens, etc. Go look up some early Factions screen shots, there is one distinctly showing a Guild Lord selling an item called Guild Vault. Point being that this would not be the first time they've f***ed up an idea shortly before release.

im speaking strictly about passing on stuff, not adding to hom.

the idea of taking a mini-pet and customizing it to an account is fine and dandy with me (it should be the same with weapons also...imo).

However the problem comes when you get to GW2.

You used 1 Kuunavang to unlock Kuunavang for all 10 characters (under your proposal).

Would the GW2 descendant get 1 Kuunavang or 10? If theres only going to be one copy passed along anyway, whats the point in adding it to the other 9 HoMs?

Quoted for truth. The Hall of Monuments should display the player's achievements, as should all titles, just like PvP titles.

It makes no sense that I can get Rank 3 on my monk then have it on any character I make on my account, but I can't do the same with current PvE titles or Hall of Monuments.

I store the miniatures in the Xunali, and use them with all characters.

I don't want to make all of them stuck to one single character andunusable for the others.

This seemsplain senseless.

True enough. Most people don't get the same title on multiple chars because getting it once is a pain in the butt.

so with u there lol SS/LB titles.....*shudders* nvr want to do that on all my chars XD

Just earlier today I thought "AIGHT! Let's go get Spearmarshall on mah 'sin!" Glad I didn't go too far with it...

But agreed, this is a SLAP in the FACE! for those who farmed thier asses off on numerous characters.

Time Spent > Player Skill. That's just how MMO's go. It's an undeniable fact of the Universe, and no matter how hard you fight it, you'll end up right back on it eventually.

Thankfully, ArenaNet has found the path again. Let us cheer for this enlightenment!

If you're all so worried about using your minipets in the HoM, just wait until you stop playing GW1 to do it. You're only going to get the rewards in GW2, so what's the point of rushing in and doing it now if there's no need for it.

In before blah blah blah single character vs account.

Great...................... I guess ill be only maxing out my main's HoM

i agree with jason ^^

sheesh i was hoping that all of my characters would have mated and produced a couple generations down the line a bunch of souped up relatives...wit their survivor instinct, their ability to catch skills, protector titles, and a bunch of cute pets :P.

But i really do think there should be 1 hall, where there maybe is a statue of ur characters each showing wut they eachieved...and wit an armory of sorts, and a bunch of pets running around...the achievements of each character would be his/her own, but the descendants would be related, and have their own pic at the cache of pets and weapons of their great great great grandparents

however, no matter how they do it...ill prob still end up buying it

No but we would expect one character in GW2 to have both.

What a lot of us were expecting to do is pass all our accomplishments (read titles) on to one character in gw2. For example, I'm getting most of my titles on my ranger. But I can't get LDoA on her, nor can I get legendary survivor. I would like to have ONE character in gw2 with all the titles I've gotten. Not have to make 3 different characters just to pass on all my titles.

If you can't (wont) make HoM account wide, this sounds like a perfectly reasonable comprimise.

I can see it working along the lines of

Bill [Toy Maker]

Go see Bill the Toy Maker. Show him your mini-pet. Once you show him a mini-pet, that mini-pet becomes customized to that character. For a fee of "X" gold, all your other characters can visit Bill the Toy Maker and he will craft a customized mini-pet for them. To me, that sounds like a fairly reasonable comprimise.

I would suggest that until people are satisfied with some kind of solution, that the Mini-pet aspect of HoM be disabled. Why? Because it would be awful if some people started customizing their pets now, and an alternative option was made available in the future. Disabling it now also provides opportunity for A-Net to reconsider the situation, without the disincentive of "it wouldn't be fair to those who customized their pets already." Customizing is permanent, and we don't need people hurt by that.

This is disappointing. I thought we would be able to get titles we couldn't get on one character on another character to make up for it. Like the whole Survivor/LDoA situation. This screws over people that want the reward for Survivor in GW2 but have all of their achievements on a character that was around before the Survivor title. If it was account-based I could just get the title on another character. It makes more sense for HoM to be account wide instead.

They should seriously at least make mini pets customized to the entire account instead of that character, because I like keeping all of my minipets in storage so I can bring them out on whichever character I want to. If I start playing my Assassin over my Warrior for a while, then I should be able to get my favorite mini pet out on the Assassin. I shouldn't have to get two minipets on a single account when I can just share them.

Don't pull that "But your Assassin's descendant in GW2 shouldn't get your Warrior's achievements." crap, it doesn't matter. All the characters on an account are pretty much a family anyway. You can't expect everybody to grind each title on every character.

This isn't good for people who like to play on more than one character, especially since there are so many titles to get.

They could be hiding something that'd bring everything together and make it make sense. From what I see now, character-based HoM sucks.

It's probably too late to implement something like this, but I think this seems to be a fair solution (it may have been already proposed; I admittedly only read half the thread):

Have ONE ACCOUNT BASED Hall of Monuments that reflects all of the accomplishments that an account has achieved. However, when GW2 comes along, the HoM is still able to determine which individual character received a specific award, or submitted a specific minipet/weapon to the monument, and only that character gets the GW2 bonus.

The whole point of HoM is for GW2 characters to get the bonuses, so that would be redundant. It would be like a visual effect for GW players but it'd work the same.

Well, that seems to be what a lot of the players want. Clearly, everyone here cares way too much about visual effects, since half the thread consists of people whining about mini pets. MINI PETS!

I guess a second option would be something like, have one HoM, and when GW2 comes around, the Gw2 HoM contains all of the 'rewards' or whatever, but only one copy of each (or if a title was obtained x times, have x copies of it)...and then whichever character from one's GW2 account takes the reward, it is customized to that character.

Because maybe, just maybe, you'd like to play more than one character in GW2. Right now, I can pass my mini fire imp from my Ele to my Dervish, and either can use. Why then would we not allow my future Ele and my Future Dervish the same opportunity. It's something I have on MY account. I can pass it using my ACCOUNT STORAGE, that is shared among ALL my characters. If storage can be account wide, i don't see why HoM can be account wide, and as a result allowing GW2 characters to share things like GW1 chars do.

Wouldn't it make everyone happy if I could choose whatever character in GW2 to get the gum and the sucker but only one character gets it. Lets say make HoM account based but if I have 5 Protector of Tyrias I get to distribute 5 chocolates to myself anyway I want, but if I have 1 Protector of Tyria I get to choose which one of my future characters gets the chocolate?

Well, when something permanent like Customization is involved, I’m from the school that believes in planning a bridge to cross a chasm before you try jumping across unaided... and potentially plummeting to a horrible squishy death.

Maybe you can make that jump... but a 100' drop is worth a little planning and forthought before taking action.

I'm happy with they way HOM is going to work and I think it makes sense. I have always assumed everything was going to be character based and as its all about inheritance that just seemed the obvious way to go. Also this doesnt mean everything I have done has been on one char, i have several maxed titles spread across roughly 3 chars while one of these is my "main title" char I have done some of the more individual titles; leg survivor, sweet tooth etc on others just so that I dont lump all my eggs into one basket when passing things on to any GW2 chars I make, the fact I can't get leg survivor on my 2 orginal warrior doesn't bother me I have it elsewhere and thats fine for me, and if I was that bothered I would just remake the guy - I know plenty of people that have been doing this ever since HOM was announced as everything has pointed in the direction of character not account based inheritance.
As for customising of mini's etc too that also strikes me as perfectly logical, if you want the benefit of a mini in your hall add it and then GW2 maybe u get something nice for the new char. Want the same for another char then it only stands to reason you'll need a 2nd mini. If you dont feel you want to tie down a mini to a particular character right now you dont have to, wait until you migrate over to GW2 and do it then you still get the benefit of whatever you may inherit and you get to swap it around your existing GW1 chars as much as you want.

It doesn't take several hundred to several thousand hours to max-out your score in a bowling game. However, maxing out many titles in Guild Wars does indeed take several hundred to several thousand hours per character.

That is why all titles that take ludicrous amounts of time to max should have been account-based, not character-based, in the first place. Having to spend several hundred to several thousand hours to max titles on just one character is bad enough, but having that "reset to zero" every time one wants to play a new character, is clearly not reasonable in the least bit. Rather it is completely ludicrous or "insane" as others have mentioned in this thread, and that ludicrous time sink of having to repeat what you, the same player, has already accomplished makes no sense.

HOM was an opportunity to remedy the ludicrousity of having to spend several hundred to several thousand hours of grinding, repeated again from zero per every character you have, just to max several titles on each of them.

The best thing to do for GW2 would be to either make every single title in GW2 be account-based, or alternatively, do not place any restrictions on class. Ie: let one single character in GW2 change to any class he wants, whenever he wants to, so that you only ever have to use one single character in GW2 to experience each and every class. Some other games are already starting to use this type of anti-grind "not-locked-into-a-class" system, like FURY for example.

Yes, absolutely. Why not? What's wrong with that? It's just a game, so it doesn't have to "make sense" any more than Zaishen AI Warriors saying "gg" to you in local chat when they beat you doesn't make any sense, or any of the other endless list of things in GW that doesn't make sense because it's a game. Someone who has invested several hundred to several thousand hours maxing a lot of titles in Guild Wars across many characters is indeed deserving to have all of that reflected in a single GW2 character, and for the ludcriousity of that grind to be thrown out the window as of GW2 rather than continued into GW2. I would argue it would be wrong to expect players to begin to grind several hundred to several thousand hours per character again on GW2 just to acquire things in GW2 that another GW2 character already has.

There's nothing "wrong" with that idea of giving one character everything, it's not like he's gonna be overpowered from it, so who cares? Other than the individual player who is spared several thousand hours of needless repetition.

Okay, I think that having it character-based instead of account-based is a choice.
I can live with customising minis, if it was account-wide. But it isn't, which sucks.
Also, in GW I have the feeling that having high ranks of a title on each of your characters is better then alot og high rank titles on one character, because I feel that showing off only one of them at a time is a waste (it should be noted that I don't think anything special about the KoaBD title), but I have really been looking forward to be able to see them all together.

I can live with it, but I'd rather have it account based

My thoughts on HoM: Account vs character based

Everyone who puts hard work into something likes to either display that hard work or put their name/emblem/tag on their work. It isn't narcissistic, it's pride and happiness in their sense of accomplishment.

For example (my assumptions):
- an artist will either put their name or registered mark on their work(s) and if they have multiple pieces, they'll display/showcase them in a gallery or even a book (ie "Art of Guild Wars" books found in collector's editions of the game)
- a car collector will typically have the vehicles housed in the same place/showroom and they need not ever be driven, some like them simply for looks and nothing more
- baseball card/ball/glove collection which may or may not be signed by the player(s) also displayed together if one owns multiples
- collectors of pennies, dolls, action figures, rocks, shells, etc like to usually keep their 'collections' or accomplishments in one place to display
- collector's of GW memorabilia would obviously display it in one spot and not switch between displaying different items on the wall/bookcase etc if they have multiples

Why? Why would someone that owns or creates all these things think of displaying them from the same place? Simply because they're proud, that's why. There is something that they love so they go out and get it. Something that makes them happy, so they go out and find it. Time matters not. Perhaps money matters not. All that matters is that they -enjoy- it and like to share that enjoyment with others. Not piece by piece, but all at once, their great joy.

Some may ask, what is the difference of having individual HoM's vs. an account based HoM? My response, if someone were to view only one of my character's HoM's, then they would only see a fraction of the joy I've had in playing Guild Wars. Some characters are more bare than others in achievements, that's because some are older/younger and another reason is because I like variety. I have 10 characters at the moment and I like to play them all for different reasons. Mostly, it depends on how I feel. What motivates me that day, what interests me, or something I simply enjoy. Seeing the accomplishments of all of my characters in one place would give me a sense of pride for my accomplishments of 2+ years, happiness, it would keep me motivated and eager to play. I can easily see which character(s) have more things accomplished and thus, try to catch up with those that hold less accomplishments. A personal motivator, in that regard. If the HoM was account based, it would be easier to hop between multiple friends HoM's as well, that is another motivator. Besides people having self-pride in accomplishments, there is also our competitive spirit between friends. Maybe friends starting a title at the same time and having fun seeing which can attain it first.

I like to gain titles to show as an accomplishment. More than those though, I believe I love my mini-pets. Some people say they're totally useless so why waste inventory space. I collect and love them simply because I think they're cute and they make me happy. Asking me to chose which mini-pet to be customized to a certain character and I wouldn't be able to, I'd have to say then...that you will never see my mini-pets displayed in the HoM's, so it's best you just erase that feature for me. I guess my mini-pets will remain in my Xunlai Storage forever.

I believe that the HoM should be account based because it is a reflection of my pride and joy in my Guild Wars accomplishments or things that I love about this game. Please note, that I am not stating anything to do with descendants inheriting any or all titles/items/weapons/armor etc of all of my current characters. I merely speak on how I would prefer things to be displayed, and that is for all character achievements to be housed in one HoM's. That would make me happy, aid in my motivation to accomplish more, and keep me playful and competitive with others. Basically because if we aren't motivated or don't enjoy something, we tend to..well..stop doing it. Those are just some of my preliminary thoughts on the matter.

I don't know if I've got the right end of the stick here - can someone put my mind at ease?

Say... I start GW2, and make a Sylvari character because I think they look kinda cool. I play the game, get to HoM, and lo! I am (somehow) a descendant of my GW1 char, and I have (customised?) access to their monuments/whatever.

What happens if I then decide that I don't actually like playing as a Sylvari after all, and decide to delete it and make an Asura instead? Is everything in my HoM still tied to/customised for/somehow attached to my deleted Sylvari?

I'm confused.

I am disappointed about the character vs. account decision anet implemented in the HoM as well.