Make all grind-based titles account based.

The only thing obvious is your lack of tact in your presumptuous attitude.

Your two questions:
1) Actually, in an indirect way, yes. It makes you the player, better. Playing Tombs, i mean HA, is a good way to learn about the maps, increase your knowledge of how players behave in PvP, what skills work, which ones dont, what type of classes to avoid, what type of skill combos to lookout for, etc. One problem with rank is inaccuracy, seeing as you cant tell if the player gained rank through specific class functions (a rank 3 warrior cannot equate to a rank 3 monk), or if it was during double fame, or if it was through good victories or fluke wins, etc. Its not analog. Properly earning rank, through victories, and even not earning rank, teaches a player who is in tune with what to do and not to do to win in Halls.

2) Yes

I would say grinding for hero does a lot more for you than grinding for PvE titles. But thats my opinion of course.

My question:
Do you need to grind either of those? No.

I never grinded Lightbringer until I was at gate of madness, and only because I wanted to level all my heroes to 20. The lightbringer/ss was just a nice bonus to leveling up my heroes. Kill 3 birds with one stone. Lightbringer, SS and Level my heroes. Even then my LB rank is only 5, and i beat the game without any trouble....

And you can certainly play Halls without any rank whatsoever. Grab some friends and do it. Theres no "must be this tall for this ride" limit.

I would like to see more things account based as well.

1 - Please backup this 4 million players number. All I'm aware of is ANET announcing 4 million copies sold across the 3 chapters, without saying how many were merged. If you have any better information please show it.

2 - How can you be certain of how a player feels about this when they haven't said anything either way ?
What about the people who don't know about this thread because they don't visit guru at all ?
True. But I was bringing it up to show that the titles don't hold much value as it is because most people don't care. And since the titles don't hold much value now, they won't be devalued much.
And your supporting data is what exactly ?


I made 5 of my characters before Nightfall came out, so how should I of known about having to grind for stat boosts when I made them ?
They are also measures of skill. If your team isn't skilled enough you can't pass them until you get a team with enough skill.
Sure they aren't necessary for you. But how does your level of skill compare to that of the average player ?
What about HM ?
Except that the thread I linked to is saying that people aren't really impressed by another persons titles now, so there isn't much impression that can be lost.
Which of the titles being effected here have actually impressed you when you saw them on another character ?

What ranks did they have to get before you were impressed ?

Do they still impress you when you see them ?
This thread suggests that the points you need for each rank should change depending on how many PvE characters you have. It would probably be better if they don't count until they are past a specific point so your mules/perma-pres don't hurt you. Personally I'm leaving it up to ANET to decide how much the ranks will be scaled by.
I'm going to assume you mistyped and meant KoaBD here, since I can't see what BoaBD means. If I'm wrong then correct me.

All I can see happening is that a lot of people who grind titles will get the first two ranks on all their characters. If the non-stat titles remain character based, then the title grinders will have all their characters 2 titles away from KoaBD 2. If only the combat-stat titles get changed, they will have all their characters 4 titles away from KoaBD.

So if your looking, you will see a lot more characters with KoaBD 1 or 2 running around and those few people that care now will stop caring about the lower ranks.

The PLAYER did EARN it!!! And the PLAYER, plays all CHARACTERS on the ACCOUNT. (most of the time)

Yes,But do you really need those 5 to have the title maxed? wouldn't R5 be good?

Got through it with henchmen, learned my lesson then and havent pugged since bar1 time. i see where your coming form but a nice portion of GW can be C-Spaced, missions,explorables so forth, so with 8 chars goign through a campaign at roughly same time (jsut created em all) it does seem grinding to me,alot of the time i'm on the internet,c-spacing (not sure if thats the proper word, shortcut keys for clostet target + attack) with unruned heros+ henchmen.btw thats form kamadan->Gate of pain, havent tried GoM yet tho nor any others with the new chars. wheres the skill there?
not sure what the average players skill level is, may be around mine,less or greater.
in HM i'm not sure if they are nessicary but they are very helpful,nearly a must maybe, dont need to be maxed tho.

Most of the replies said titles didn't matter in pugs?
reason coudl be all titles on main,that char was an alt.
some peopel don't collect titles but are still skilled etc.

But if i work hard for a week or 2 for a title what ever it may be wouldn't you feel sad that alot more popel have it? the cartographer thread is a nice example about how rare a title used be and how popular it is currently and thus how its value decreased for the holder.http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10213510

rank 3 impressed me greatly but then i saw alot more as time passed by..alot more...also cartographer

when i first saw maxed sunspear on the X2 weekend i was like woah,nice but as time moved on it began to seem less, this is only 1 char per account more or less, if everyone had it as there newbie default title for there char it would seem worthless to me.
rank 10, rank 3 for fame, max cart

alot more peopel have them as time passes by
yes that is nice but why should i be penalised because i have a few chars, when i never intended or wanted to get them passed a small rank in the title, not maxing them out. as i want to complete all campaign with a few chars.
your right, i did type alot and i'll jsut say i was sleepy.

sorry i don't follow,i am tired tho.really.

single based: 4 north titles= 4 titles 1 away form KoaBD + 2 (SS,LB)=1 char 6 titles
Account based: 4 titles= 4 tittles 1 away form KoaBD per Char. + 2 (SS,LB) = 6 titles done by 1 char which all chars get credit for. meaning KoaBD r1 is the default title.

prob compltely out form what you said, again sorry.
/agreed but i worked hard to get titles, and im near r2, it'll just be given to most new chars that join. (that said i havent really tried for titles since june:S)

Since i first posted in this thread i realised today that i am kind of in the same boat, but for the treasure hunter should be account wide.
i agreed with it as i tought it was just the same work,same amount of keys ran etc. didnt think it would hurt anyone. but i realise now that it would devalue it a bit imo.

that said i can kinda feel i'm in your boots, and grinding one char is just like grinded on others,same amount of time but differant chars can work together on it.

the only differance was that i had obtained some of the grind based titles which if i favored the new options it would mean one of these:

1)alot of people had the title and it felt a bit devalued
or
2)I had to grind a bit more for somthing iused to have if higher max cap.

but also the KoaBD alot easier to get, + i also tought about grinding LB on 2 other chars for a bit if ihad free time.

so consider me
/semi signed
i would like to see it on a tril of somesort first.

/signed

I'm praying to Dwayna that some day this update will exist. So tedious and makes me not even want to try such titles because it will only be seen one one character which is 1/8 of my playing time.

"Oh well i have the Incorrigible Ale-Hound title on my other character"

Boo!

My supporting data is the number of people who agree to your proposal. Until you get enough signature to back you up, the title system will stay as it is.

1) if you think title isn't of much value, why do you need them to be on all your characters?

2) I do not mind other players' title does not equal those title being of not much value, they are of value to the players who have earn them, except you, maybe. I value all the title I earn. Your proposal is devaluing the max title that I have spent time earning. Do you think that is fair? Just because you want a short cut for your other characters, everyone else have to have their title devalued?

omfg you can't possibly be that naïve. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so just because people havent said “yes” doesn’t mean they’ll say “no”. How could you accuse people of making unfounded statements and then come out with tripe like that?


And as for your questions… Bilateral’s op is very good, but Bilateral’s rebuttals…well I don’t know. But heres my take:
I think titles ARE of value(although what I think bilateral was referring to was the fact that people generally don’t take them into consideration when forming pugs)
Titles govern the way we play the game! (ive said this b4) nobody would go for drunktard without the title!
Right now nobody would drink beer on more than one character, but if the title were made acct based… people would! And I(that’s my opinion not necessarily yours) say that’s a good thing(same applies for all the activity based titles)
In a similar way, ppl would be less inclined to play more than one character if the other grind based titles.

so heres what really matters: Do people perfer to identify themselves with ONE profession, or enjoy a MULTITUDE of professions? If you like playing multiple characters ( and don’t have all the time in the world ) then implementing this proposal is one step in that direction. That’s the sole purpose of the proposal.

I agree out of the 4 millions (game sold), the likelihood that their owner who did not say yes to this thread will say yes is 50/50. THEIR ANSWER CAN as easily be a NO. This thing can go both way. But I am not the one petitioning, until the petitioner gets the required amount of signature, thing stays the same, that's how things are.

PS:
NO, it will not make player(s) with multiple professions have better experience :P I have one of each profession and I don't want the short cut. I buy extra character slots so I can enjoy the game all over again with different professions, planning to have the opposite sex of all those character as well, so thank you for not spoiling it. :P

got life: don't read 19 pages of nonsense and don't play computer game lol :P

for post #371, nope, don't like it. But if somehow anet decide to change it, I don't mind either :P still prefer the way it is now.

/signed
why ?
cause i got life and don't see the point to spend time & money to make same title over and over

i'm sure noone have ALL max title so you already have challenge while waiting gw2

P.S : read 19 pages omg so long ^^

If you've heard all the reasons and you understand the reasoning behind the proposal( not every 1 does -______________- ) , and still don't like it, then thats your opinion, and i don't think anybody in the thread should object to that.

lol if you read one page u've read em all =p (esp the opening)

Some people have already said that if you object, then you obviously dont understand.

Ill go through the list of all the title tracks and my opinion of it.

Currently account based:
Champion -
Gamer -
Gladiator -
Hero -
Commander -
-All titles which are available through PvP should always be account based because it is a measure of that specific player's skill, not their character. Also PvP characters are rerolled often, which would make erase titles if they were character based, and the player's own skill is not erased even if he deletes a character, making such titles useless if they were so. Although imo, there should be CLASS-SPECIFIC titles, so your rank as a warrior is not the same as your rank as a monk, but still account based.

Lucky -
Unlucky -
-These titles are based on random things. Lockpicks breaking, games of chance, item effects. I think if this was character based, it would be unfair because it forces you to play only your luckier characters.


Currently character based:

Drunkard - based on how much a specific character has consumed. I dont know how you can make an account drunk....since the drunk effect only affects that character at that time. If you switch characters, are you still affected by drunkeness? Answer is no. Does it even continue if you zone?

Survivor - char based only. OP doesnt want this changed. I agree. Account based is completely not applicable.
Defender of Ascalon - char based only. OP doesnt want this changed. I agree. Account based is completely not applicable.

Sweet Tooth - based on how much a specific character has consumed. I dont know how you can make an account sugar rush....since the sugar rush effect only affects that character at that time. If you switch characters, are you still affected by sugar rush? Answer is no. Does it even continue if you zone?

Treasure Hunter - based on how many chests a specific char has opened. At the same time, your character has to GET to the chest. This is very much a character only title since it involves that specific character's actions.

Wisdom - based on how many items a specific char has IDed. This title i would like to be account based. Simply because, when you ID and unlock new weapon mods and runes, it benefits the WHOLE account, not just that character. If you're a warrior and unlock an elementalist rune, you can get the elementalist rune in pvp for your whole account. IDing benefits the whole account also in that, id'ed items can be traded between characters PvP or PvE chars. If you ID with one character, giving to another character doesn't invalidate the ID of the mods. Because of these reasons, an ID based title should be account based.

Cartographer + legendary - based on where a specific char has been. Account based is completely not applicable.

Guardian/Protector + legendary - based on missions specific char has beaten. Account based is completely not applicable.

Skill Hunter + legendary - based on elite skills captured by specific char. Although, one could argue, using the same logic direction with IDing, that skill hunter affects the whole account in that it unlocks elites for the whole account, giving access to all characters as well as heroes if they have the class and proper tome. However since it STILL involves speficically finding a boss with a character, it should remain character based.

Vanquisher + legendary - based on areas vanquised by specific char. Account based is completely not applicable.

NOW....heres the ones we're really arguing about.

Lightbringer - Linked to 3 PvE only skills. Can only level up in PvE. You only begin earning LB points after a certain point in Nightfall. Making this account based is not applicable. What if your character was based from Cantha, and only started Cantha. Why would he have rank in Lightbringer when he can't even access the person to gain those skills, nor can he farm for lightbringer points. The title would not benefit him at all, until he reaches the areas in Nightfall where lightbringer is useful. If you choose to not even go to Nightfall (my Mesmer has never been to Nightfall for example), why should you have a title specifically only affecting and relating to the end areas of a that the character has never even been to? Even though raising Lightbringer rank up makes your skills more powerful, There is a cap to it, and after that, you cannot be better than anyone else who has also maxed it.

Sunspear - Linked to 11 PvE skills. Can only level up in PvE. You earn SS points only in Nightfall. Theres no part of the SS rank that affects your whole account or multiple characters at all (it doesnt even affect your heroes! unlike LB). SS is not really a grind title. I compare it to the "Master of The North" title. It shows how far you are in the game, and really becomes a null rank after you get to Lightbringer, because after a certain rank, you can't use certain bounties and have to move to stronger enemies. Also, quest progression requires certain rank, making this require you to do quests (quests are grinds?). The SS rank may as well be called "Master of Nightfall". Making this account based doesn't make any sense, since it would allow brand new made Nightfall characters instant access to powerful skills without properly progressing through Nightfall. And you can't compare it to say...gaining elites through tomes, since those attributes are directly correlated to your character's level, being a lvl 5 with searing flames means nothing, compared to a low level character with a SS skill at max SS points. None of the OP's reasons can justify changing this title to account based, since it would screw up a lot of natural flows in the game.

Asura -
Deldrimor -
Ebon Vanguard -
Norn -
-Ill take all of these together since they are all the same essentially. Same basic idea above. None of these titles benefit accounts, none of them can make you better since they are capped at a limit. They progress NATURALLY through normal gameplay.
At certain levels you gain access to specific things.
1 - basic effect
2 - none
3 - consumables
4 - weaponsmiths
5 - armor
This is analgous same as creating a map with 5 outposts in it, and stronger and stronger enemies between each outpost. If you want armor, you need to get to the final outpost, requiring you to kill a lot of enemies to get there. Being title based doesn't mean that the benefit of having access should be shared by all characters, since those other characters did not progress to those points of the game.

Master of The North - ugh...how can this even be account based?

Allegiance (Kurzick) -
Allegiance (Luxon) -
-These two are the complex ones. The screwed up ones. Kurz/Lux factions are required to progress in PvE. It also affects your guild's faction total directly. Its can be a measure of your PvP skill also because at the same time, you can use a PvP char to gain that faction, a PvP char who has never stepped foot in PvE. Heck...you can use a character who has never even been to Cantha and still do Alliance Battles using your Guild Hall. As such, these titles have interconnected account and character and benefit multiple characters, and points can be gained through both PvP and PvE. But...they also affect PvE skills ,as an afterthought, which means there is a maximum limit to the rank's effects. HOWEVER...there is a minimum lvl 20 requirement to gain the PvE skills in the first place, which makes sure a noob lvl 1 rit wont have access to a fully maxed out Summon spirits. Imo this title has to stay account based, because it intertwines too many things account, pvp, as well as pve progress and pve skills to be not account based.

WHO is Affected by the onscreen effect? YOU the PLAYER. WHO clicks on the drinks every minute? YOU the PLAYER. WHO spends the gold required?
ill give you one guess.

WHO is Affected by the onscreen effect? YOU the PLAYER. WHO clicks on the candy? YOU the PLAYER. WHO spends the gold required?
ill give you one guess, yes another one.

WHO gets to the chest? your neighbour? nope its the PLAYER what toon he used to get there is irrelevant. WHO spends the cash on lockpicks? the toon? is cash character based? nope its ACCOUNT based.

The PLAYER has been to those areas, PLAYER. these toons dont walk around on their own you know.

And so making it account based changes what? you simply no longer have to REPEATEDLY grind a certain section of the game to gain LB points that are in the end only usefull in Endgame areas.

There is and issue with SS i agree. A proposed solution to this would be an artificial level cap for those that have not completed the NF game yet. At every primary mission passed the level cap would increase.

AGAIN we come back to this, its happening already. how can one get this one simple fact through? Consumables can be bought by another char on the same account or off other players, Weapons are the same.


The people who are opposing this should clearly be pushing for removal of storage transferring, and gold transferring between chars. After all Its the TOON that made the cash.

oh ffs read the opening....and re-read your own arguments -____-

Please if you don't like it just say you don't like it...

Don't make some insane argument that contradicts itself every two sentences, and clearly shows that you have not read the proposal properly, nor properly thought out your own reasoning.

edit: thanks sleeper for explaining =P, ive had to say the same crap too many times =.=

And lemme clarify: Cartographer/Vanquisher/skill hunter/guardian are NOT titles that were suggested for account based for a number of reasons: roleplay(yes that was actually considered) if more than 1 character has the title, it cannot be easily consolidated to acct based, and it would not make sense, since, a character without access to a particular area should not b able to proclaim s/he's explored that area.

I don't like having to grind for stats. Especially when I go onto another character and have to grind the sats up again.
missions,explorables so forth, so with 8 chars goign through a campaign at roughly same time (jsut created em all) it does seem grinding to me,[/quote]
At least the c-spacing through missions has scenery changes. Farming your SS/LB points is c-spacing in the same area, against the same mobs which don't pose a threat to wurms.
At the very least there is some skill in hero skill selection, even if it is just looking up builds. Though I feel that a lot of your bordem is coming from you doing 8 characters at once, with the rest coming from NF simply being a rather boring campaign.
Without knowing the average players skill, I can't see how we can be sure about it.
And with this change if you put in the work, you would get the benefits on all your characters.
Yes, the cartographer title lost a lot of value in that persons eyes because the work was reduced. But with the grind titles ANET can increase the points per rank, thus keeping the work the same for players with x characters. So what multiplier would you want to see on the ranks ?
The title is becoming less valuable because more people have it ?

Over time I can't see this being avoided. Though if ANET increases the points per rank enough, I'd expect there to be a short period where less people are wearing the title.
Yes, that is an issue with the sliding multiplier. Even if ANET makes it so that characters don't count for title x till they reach point y (eg, you don't count to Norn till you enter GW:EN) some people will get disadvantaged by it. Though a constant multiplier will hurt all the single character people.
These titles effect combat stats - 4 GW:EN titles, SS/LB - 6 titles
Treasure hunter and Wisdom effect non-combat stats - 2 titles, making it 8
Sweet Tooth and drunkard then att another 2 more, bringing us to 10.
Even with the sliding multiplier only effecting characters past a certain point there will be some people hit by one of these options. But the titles are going to lose value over time.
A trail run could be useful to see, though a bit more complex to implement because during the trial ANET would need to track the per character value while also having the total value recorded.


Yes, unless I can get enough support ANET won't implement this idea. Going through this thread and using ctrl-f, I find that "/signed" has been placed into 55 separate posts. "/notsigned" has is only in 7 posts. I would of missed any alternate spellings (eg "/not signed", which is in at least one post), and I could be one or two off because I miscounted.
I was talking about KoaBD there, which I don't care about. However I do care about the stat boosts from other titles, which lose value as people obtain them anyway.
Would it be devalued if ANET also increased the time required per rank so that I still do the same amount of work to max it out on my 7 characters ?

How many characters do you have the titles across ?
So what should we assume the position of the non-respondents is ?

- They don't want the change.
- They want it.
- They don't care.
- Their ratio of approval to non approval is similar to what is displayed in the thread.

Taking ANETs 4 million sales figure. Lets assume that all sales were 3 copies being merged into the one account, giving us over a million accounts*. Lets assume that we only have 10%* of that number of active players due to people quitting and/or having multiple accounts. We still have over 100'000 accounts. So that means that unless one suggestion gets over 1000 different replies, the first option leaves us with a <1% approval rating, the second gives a >99% approval rating. So the first two options don't look reasonable to me.

*In both these cases I'm producing a lower number than what I feel is believable because it weakens my argument to have the lower numbers.


I'm not a PvP player, but this sounds like it could do with its own thread.
But if you don't touch them for months then you also don't see any effect. So why should the title remain ?
Though I don't really care much about these ones.
True. But its effects are greater per rank than Lucky, which is account based.
So make it a title that can't be displayed till you reach that point in NF

Also the common way of maxing SS and LB is in wurms, which only differ depending on the weapon your holding. So not only is it a boring area, changing classes don't change them much, only your energy regen. Casters ride identical wurms every single time.
Why is this a bad thing ?
Especially with the Factions PvE only skills. Sure they only work on lvl 20 characters, but who stays below level 20 for any length of time ?
Until you have done everything and are having to repeat tasks.

Consumables and weapon-smiths are irrelevant since you could always craft with one character and move across. Armor is a vanity item, and is also ignored.
In that analogy, the rep titles are asking for you to fight all the enemies between the outposts after you killed them all once, and someone put them back.
I'd say that them being PvP titles overrules any other issues. Though making them character based would hurt my arguments a bit.

FYI, i had the OP in another tab as i typed my long post earlier today...I understand your position perfectly. It's not even that i don't like it. I just don't think its justifiable to support.

I really think the big difference here is that I see each character in the game as its own entity, its own personality and storyline, and exists in the game and interacts within the game. I see playing through the game as developing that character, building her up, making her more powerful, gaining weapons and perhaps having help from her "family" (ie: other characters who share storage).

Its not a repeated task, since each character is doing it for the FIRST TIME. Thats how I see it.

I dont care how many characters you have. I dont care how many times you've done it before. Each character is a new character. Its not an extension of an existing character.

I've played grindy games (like Maplestory/Lineage2/Rappelz/Ragnarok/Ragnarok2) this is NOT grindy.

All the "grinds" are secondary to actually playing the game. The so called grind titles build themselves up through naturally playing the game, the way the game is designed (granted it takes tweaks to get the pace just right). There is no need to change it since it already works.

The change proposed by the OP is for convenience. There is no broken game mechanic, there is no exploit, there is no imbalance.

Gaining SS -> Do your quests, kill bad guys along the way. This title increases through normal gameplay.
Gaining LB -> Do quests, kill bad guys. This one isnt even required.
GWEN Titles -> Kill bad guys, do quests, do dungeons. This title increases through normal gameplay.

I will reiterate. Normal Gameplay.

Isn't that what this game is all about? Go from Point A to Point B. Kill stuff. Talk to someone. Bring someone something. Avoid something. Kill more stuff. Stand here and keep ____ from dying.


Drunkeness doesnt affect players if they dont want it to. It only affects the character. The characters starts slurring and spouting random things, and also starts to do random emotes.

You are actually saying that sugar rush affects you, the person? The character in game runs faster. Not you.

So you are telling me, YOU, the player, you actually traveresed the game, and opened the chest. The discovery for each toon is different. The spawn of each chest is different for each character.

You've never been there. You played a character who is in this virtual space.

Im sorry. But you dont have to grind LB points, EVER. I've beaten the domains without the effect on (i forgot i had the rebel yell effect on...oops). You dont need Lightbringer Gaze if you dont want want it.

But you miss the point of the areas where they tell you to "Gain SS rank ___".

Its to give you a choice of how you want to progress the storyline. You can develop specific quests trees in any order you want or kill monsters. Its the same reason for the 10,000 factions requirement.

They could have easily have had NO SS rank or 10,000 faction requirement altogether and instead added those side quests are part of the primary quest, forcing you into a more linear path, rather than a branching path and removing any choice you have altogether.

Actually i bought my first chaos axe for my warrior before my warrior ascended, before i had access to FoW. Weapon Crafting/Consumables being accessible through secondary means doesn't negate the fact that your character still needs to rank up in order gain access FOR THEM.

Storage in Guild Wars is actually very different from other MMORPGS, since we do not have servers, we aren't locked in place.

Your counter-argument stems from "who bought it in the first place" or "who gained the gold", arguing that you the player is the one affected. But who is using it? Who is benefitting? Specific characters benefit specifically for those instances when those characters are in use.

Consumables can only be used by one character at a time. It is not an account based effect. Weapons only affect the character using it (using Vamp -1 as an example).

=============

Some might say its hypocritical to say that a player is affected by PvP, and the character is affected in PvE, since its both the player thats controlling both instances.

However, in the static and linear world of GW PvE, the players choices are irrelevant to the outcome of the story in the end. If you fail, the game doesn't end. The game doesnt remember your failure. You can start back where you began and try again.

PvP is quite different, the context and content of PvP is directly controlled and affected by the player and other players in the instance. The outcome of each match hinges severely on the PLAYER, not the character. If you fail, theres no do-overs. Thats it, YOU lost, regardless of your character, you failed.

That is why i consider PvE based titles as character based and not player/account based titles.

=============

I might change my mine on the Treasure hunter title. Yes treasure chests do affect lucky and the unlucky title.

Bilateral Rope - Kurzick / Luxon PvE skills relying on Kurzick/Luxon allegiance is STUPID, imo. I don't know, maybe it should have its own title track for the skill effect attribute. Like i said, its the complicated one.

I dunno are you deliberately missing the point? Toons do not have a "life" other than what we make them do, they dont go on binges on their own or eat candy on their own, they do not FEEL this effect or spend the TIME required to gain this effect: its the player.

now we again come to the fraction of the playerbase that no matter what wants to identify with their toons and act as if they well and truly exist and thats fine be me just WHY IMPOSE THIS GAMEPLAY ON THE REST. Christ you dont need a little box to tell you that your toon (or you in GW...whatever) is a Holy Lightbringer drunkard that slays gods, if thats what you want it to be then so be it!


what? I AM the PLAYER! when i go out in real life in a grey T-shirt to buy a can of "Coke" does it really matter if i go and do that the next day in a blue sweater? Will my route be different? will the product i buy suddenly become "Cronk"?

Yes i play a virtual toon in a virtual space that goes and does virtual things...but ME sir. I am NOT VIRTUAL, my actions are NOT virtual and my time is not virtual either.

if you dont need it then whats the problem. i never said you needed it either.

"this gain SS rank" requirement is one of the most annoying things in NF tbh, its not needed either, once a toon has played through NF why force the PLAYER behind to go through that useless charade again?


but your warrior could equip this chaos axe and use consumables that were not yet accessible to that toon. only because you had passed on these items from another toon could you do this.

nobody is saying saying "open up the map to all toons" here...

Im sorry but i've have somehow never managed to play more than one toon at a time. you must have more arms than me. Everything affects one toon at a time...they (again) don't have an existence other than the one which is given to them.

I do not agree.

This will suck the life out of the game for many people. Once you have maxed the KoaBD, Well off to a dif game I go, as there will no longer be a driving force to play this game. It will be beaten and finished. I would like to think that 3 Years from now when I need a break from GW2 that I can boot up the original and unshelf a character and have that "new" feel to it. If this is implemented it will void this factor completely.

LETS COMPROMISE

you can display any title any character on the account has accomplished

BUT

it will be a different color from the regular earned title and only the earned benefits affect that character.

example max wisdon/treasure hunter have no beneficial effect on salvage odds/lockpick break odds until those title benefits are earned on that character.

you can flash the title but gain no financial benefit from displaying it

No, i get the point.

I dont agree with it. Thats why were having an argument.

At the end of the day, I dont think the game should change to cater to specific players complaints which stems from not wanting to play the content in the game.

Give these whiners their benefits, but don't give them the title.

At this point, who cares.

you...dont agree with it.

you DO think that our toons have a life in-game other than what we give to them.

well that throws any chance of a potentially useful or rational argument out the window for sure.

Its not about playing the content of the game. its about forcing REPETITIVE content on the player for no other use than to what? make the game last artificially longer? the player has done those actions sufficiently to earn that title/perk why force that very same player to go through those mindless motions over and over again. Its just punishing people who want to play other toons.


Thanks for the clever input Snow Bunny. Shame you missed the point but who gives a damm about that anyways.

When the point is to remove the unfair advantage currently being given to single character players, this wouldn't achieve anything. The other way round would be fine though - give the effects of the title, but not the ability to display it.

Flip-flop that around. I'd rather have the stat bonuses and not be able to show the title. I couldn't give a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO what title is under my characters if I don't get the bonuses from them.

Playing any game multiple times is repetitive content because you are doing it again. Geeze...how hard is that to understand. Its not punishing you. You chose to play it again.

Why do want to NOT play it again, if you chose to play it again? Ok, so you only wanna play certain parts of the game, and skip certain parts. That I understand, but theres no game plus mode in GW, sorry (which is something I suggested before actually...).

The fact that the Guild Wars storylines are very linear doesn't help, i would agree, it gets boring doing it the umpteenth time (<---I have 17 characters, so i totally sympathize doing quests, getting to lvl 20, getting armor, weapons, elite armor, elite skills, beating the game over and over and over. I actually have 1 ranger per continent).

The only title tracks which are "mandatory" in any sense are, as I've said before, SS and Kurz/Lux allegiance, because they serve as a barrier, which is no different than having a longer quest tree.

If you are gonna complain about that, lets complain about the whole quest tree in its entirety, not just parts.

A skilled player can pretty much steamroll this game. I could argue that every quest, every mission, everything is mindless, so why not just skip all of it? Why do quests? Why do missions? Why do anything? I've done it all before!

Would this make you happy:

Make a new char, that char has access to everything youve done before, maps, titles, zones, outposts, all quests youve done, all skills youve earned, instant lvl 20 with all attribute points and secondaries unlocked.

The character doesnt have to do anything.

Would that be more suited to your style of gameplay? Would you even consider that "gameplay"?

I tried that entire arguement! They wont accept it because they considering certain aspects to be "more grind" then others. This being the entire crunch of this debate.

People are perfectly happy to grind some things, but not others!

The reason is because they put some self-worth on one thing and less on another. They then use that self-worth as an excuse to say "well I didnt want to grind for this end result, but I felt pressured into doing it."

The truth being... they didnt need that end result, they just "wanted it".

But they put some importance on it to justify this entire debate. They try to argue that this particular "grind sucks" because they want the end result which according to them is important. They ignore the entire fact that they chose to do that activity to achieve that end result.

No one forced them, no one pressured them and no one lied to them about the end result.

Any importance which people put on armor, weapons, pve only skills and buffs or other results of grind are not important. You can continue playing the game without having these end results.

Im sure maxed out pve only skills will make the game easier or more exciting. Im sure having instant access to elite armor and weapons does make your life easier. Im sure having maxed out status effects can be usefull on a new char.

But none of those end results are important. Important in the sense that you cannot play the game without them!

This entire debate is based around what people "want", not what they "need." This entire debate is based around players trying to argue they are being forced or pressured into achieving these end results either on a vanity level or because their important.

The truth is "Oh that guy has Norn armor and I want it, but I dont want to grind rank 5 to get it."

The truth is "oh that guy has rank10 drawf and I want that, but I dont want to grind rank10 to get it."

It has nothing to do with need.... its all about want!

But you choose to undergo these long, grinding activities to reach that end result. So swallow your pride and accept responibility for your choices. If your now stuck grinding for hours to get something, then its no ones fault but your own.

Anet shouldnt turn the entire title system on its head just to satisfy the wants of a few players, just because they want to look as good as the player next to them.

/notsigned if i am drunk for 1000 minutes in real life and win an award for doing so(lawl) my brother doesnt get the same award just because we came from the same parents

Fish you have it all wrong. but sure, keep on deliberately misunderstanding or seeing it through that warped vision of yours if you want. Choosing to interpret what people say in a particular manner to vomit it back out with your sauce doesnt say much for your thinking processes.


Lyra its already been stated that we didn't want to unlock the map and missions. i guess you were going for "impact" and not precision in your above post but hey.

Monk, if you are drunk for 25 min on Tuesday wearing a blue shirt at a friends house and 65 min on Saturday wearing a green shirt in a club how many minutes were you drunk in total this week.
your brother has nothing to do with YOUR drinking.

It makes no difference if you asked for it or not, since im asking for it now.

The argument is about convenience and reducing grind and repetitive tasks.

Maps unlocks, missions, gaining skills, beating bosses, doing quests, crafting armor.

ITS ALL REPETITIVE TASKS. The OP not demanding that such things be changed is hypocritical.

Crafting armor per character isnt repetitive?
Capping elites per character isnt repetitive?
Doing missions per character isnt repetitive?
Doing quests per character isnt repetitive?

It's all a grind to me, title or no title. It should be changed for my convenience.

"I've done it before on another character, i shouldn't have to do it again!" - Isnt that one of the main arguments here?

You cannot argue that one task is less repetitive than the other.
All the tasks have the SAME repetitiveness per character.
Its all the same repetitive tasks for all players.
It doesnt matter how much "skill" it requires, PvE is static.

If one class had less repetitive tasks than another, then that would be imbalanced and i would have a massive complaint about it. If one player had more to do or less, then that would be imbalanced as well.

If you want to complain about a repetitive task, complain about the WHOLE thing.

You cant nitpick and choose what you consider repetitive because it suits you, when the nature of the game is repetition if you choose to repeat it.

Did I only mention mapping? Nope!
Did I mention missions at all in that post? Nope!

I talked about pve only skills, status effects, armor and weapons! 4 of the man reasons why people want these titles made account based.

Dont talk about vomitting rubbish up if you dont even bother to read what i wrote myself.

Armor and weapons are effectively "account based" since they require only one thing - money. You can earn all the money you want on any character, and use it freely on another. At that point, the only requirement is getting to a city that has max armor/weapons (or just simply passing down a weapon through the account-based storage).

Capping elites and missions/quests are all completely different experiences with different classes. This is not considered grind since they are different tasks. If you choose to delete your monk, and re-make your monk to repeat everything - that's your choice. I would call that grind, but it's entirely your prerogative. You don't need to do anything repetitive in order to experience the game with a different class, since it's all a unique experience.

The discussion is on the repetition needed for these titles. I don't like the repetition at all, and would much rather it not exist at all. This thread is a suggestion that this repetition only be needed once. Honestly, I don't agree with it anymore. I've changed my stance to not needing the repetition at all. The titles can stay, just as they are, just remove any effects and skills from them. That is all.

Why cant i just have it from the get go? How about if i already have crafted a specific armor before with a monk, and made another monk, cant i have the same armor?

Wether or not your job is to kill or to heal, is irrelevant to the final outcome. The bad guy must still die. The NPC must still live. The task remains the same, your function in the team to perform the task may change.

I'd go further to say that applies to replaying the game with any new character. It's still the same game. Its still the same missions. The missions and quests dont change with your class (except specific class based quests, but those are also shared if you use them as a secondary of that class).

I would disagree. same missions, same quests. Same cinemas, same dialogues. its all repetition.

And it stems from not wanting to repeat things. Lets remove everything that requires repetition!

Of course, but this is a role-playing game. You role-play as different characters, not as one character wearing different clothes. That's why they all have different names. Yes, they have no distinction except for what we give them because in the end it is still me at the comp regardless of which avatar is hack-n-slashin'. BUT I want each of my characters to be treated as distinct. I don't want one getting rewards for stuff accomplished by the other. That's the whole idea of role-playing.

If you want to play with lots of different characters, but have all the rewards grouped on one, choose one profession that you really like that has decent armor level/stats (ranger, war, or para), and play the game based on your secondary. You feel like playing a monk today? Switch to all monk skills. Yeah, you lose the divine favor boost, but come on, is PvE really so hard that you need it?

If we call this a role-playing game, then the argument about one guy being drunk does not equal his brother being drunk is still a valid argument.

oh really.

'nuff said.

do you actually think before you type?

this constantly comes up as a reason for not making these titles account based, but i just don't understand why. people seem to think that the characters who you achieved a title on deserve the title, and not the actual HUMAN that DID IT.

annoys the hell out of me. flawed logic at its best

Where did I mention mapping or missions?

Yes i agree with you fish, this IS about want, and we are free to choose whether or not we should make a new character.

A lot of us would like to make more than one pve character, but the fact remains that there must be a choice, given that most of us don't have unlimited amounts of game time, between titles and versatility.
Hence a lot of us are "CHOOSING" not to make a new character.
This proposal is aimed at reducing the barriers to creation of more than one character. This is so that a player would be more inclined to make the "choice" of making an additional character.
Given that a design aim of this game is skill>time, but skill is dependent versatility, it would be in the best interests of maintaining this design goal, to implement the proposal.

I believe i've said this before but Ill say it again in the hopes that you understand

And you say"This entire debate is based around what people "want", not what they "need."" like its a bad thing, and borders on stating the obvious...
Its a game. Nothing is Need. Everything is Want."NEED" is subjective. WANT is objective. You cannot say what we "need", but we damn sure know wat we want.
IMO the only way to define "NEED" in a game is that you have fun, hence "NEED" is logically equivalent to "WANT" and if this entire debate is based around "NEED" then its very well justified isn't it?

You haven't quite made it clear, so ill ask what exacty do u want, ahem "NEED"- ie what makes you happy, about having the the title character based?

oh edit: if you define "need" as anything required to finish the game, and you seem to be saying that anything thats not "needed" shouldn't be in the game. Why aren't you proposing that we remove all skills but frenzy heal sig, we have henchmen after all =P.

why are all of 3 or 4 people arguing this like it is the last beer on earth????


It is going to happen, get over it.

only 5 people want this.


In before close

oh hurray look you win your +1 post count and get to say your worthless little "in before close" yelp. feel better now?

Lots of people want this, some people are dead set against it. the problem is the reasoning behind it is flawed, selfish and RP oriented.