Make all grind-based titles account based.

I would love to see a poll on the sign in window on the game about this. One Vote only...would be interesting to see and would be a way to shut up both sides of the line!

Why not remove the barrier altogether for the first time.
Buy the game, instant access to everything! That would rock!

It already applies, since after you reach your peak (lvl 20, max attributes, max armor, max weapons, etc maxed PVE skills), having more time will not grant you any advantage. Even then, a good player can do without any of those.

Yes. It is a bad thing because if you allow such a proposal to go through, ANYTHING that is based on WANT is acceptable.

I want free ectos! Hey! That would rock.

If the titles were causing an imbalance, or it wasnt functioning as it was originally intended, or players are unable to play for some reason, then a change is NEEDED.

If you played through it the first time and had no problems with it, then its NOT BROKEN.

Lots of people? What? Guru? This messageboard represents a tiny percentile of the game community.

Flawed reasoning? Lets reason this out.

You play game content -> You get game reward
You play game content again -> You get game reward again
You dont play game content -> You dont get game reward again

"You don't play game content -> You get game reward"

Now...how could you possibly tell me that makes any logically sense?

Selfish? Your argument is based on WANT. You're tell me, I'm selfish?

The "grindy" elements are part of the storyline. The role playing game part. The elements that affect your character only. And not YOU as a player.

ROFL you and 3 others want this, anyone with a functional brain can clearly see this is a BAD, DUMB, UNNEEDED IDEA. Why try and suck all the remaining life out of a great game because: WHHAAAA
I don't want to grind, WWHHAAA I'm a casual player, WWHHAAA skill>time. This ENTIRE THREAD is mind numbingly idiotic to the point of nausea.

BTW if "lots of people want this" where are the 5 stars in the rating? why isn't this a sticky? I do not want/need an answer to these questions, as it is obvious.

THIS = /FAIL


now I feel better.....

true and theres been more than 5 supporting it. how many against? how many have a valid argument?

lets take fish, one of your more virulent (albeit confused) supporters. On this thread he states :

regarding the choice of unlocking/auto-completing NM in missions if the HM version of it has been done.
its the same logic as been proposed here and yet it seems to be generally approved of maybe because its a little easier to see?

derailing this conversation into philosophical hazy waters concerning "needs" and "wants" will not make your arguments any better, how about we stick with stuff we can reason with. Not your forte but thats the way the world works.

so far the defence has been :

1. toon A has done it not toon B. - completely ignores that PLAYER has controlled both. YOU play game content. the player. now, not understanding that one simple premise is just a joke or an illness. Either way that argument has clearly run its course.

2. GW is a RPG therefore grind must be incorporated at all levels. - what stops you from grinding it anyways. Just because you have labeled it as a RPG (which Anet does not btw) does that mean EVERYONE has to RP it? not only that but RP it like you do?

FYI if i do not want to pretend i'm a toon. Just play as ME i sure hope you allow me to (which seems to be contrary to your "vision")


And zamial. I'm not a casual player, you on the other hand manage to masterfully express yourself with "whaaaas". That clearly does great credit your intelligence and capability of even attempting to understand simple logic.

oh i see you replaced your typical "in before close" with the oh so original /fail.

high five. now run along.

Please address my question. Explain to me.

Ill toss the whole "character" thing out the window, since you dont regard your character as different from each one (apparently you only have 1 character that lives in multiple slots)

But explain to me....how can this make any sense?



Your #2) No. Grind is not incorporated in all levels. Regardless of game time, REPETITION OF ANYTHING is a grind. It doesnt matter.

Look at real life. I work weekdays. I do the dishes. I cook. I do my laundry. Thats a grind. Its repetitive. Why should I ; get paid, have clean dishes, have food, have clean laundry, if i didnt do the work for it?

The problem is the task itself vs. the reward. If the task is a unique experience, appropriate difficulty (harder for higher reward), and of course, fun (since this is a game, after all), then a reward of more effective skills is perfect. Repetitive, grinding, boring tasks do not fit this description. However, when titles were introduced, the reward for repetitive, grinding, boring tasks was simply words under your name that said: "Hey, I do repetitive, grinding, boring tasks better than everyone! Look at me!" And whatever, that's fine.

So the problem now is that the title alone is no longer the reward for that. Now, the reward is more effective skills (and effects). I think that everyone who disagrees with that style of play has every right to complain about it. It is clearly something that was not in the game when many of us fell in love with GW, and now it is. It is a change for the worse, and a change we do not like.

So, are you telling everyone they're wrong for thinking this way?

My personal mantra is, "don't fix what ain't broken." It was fine before, with titles that had no effects or skills. It isn't fine now. There's clearly a divide, people who love it, and people who hate it.

Grinding tasks are content, like it or not, and it fits the description fine, and the reward is fine (with me). Now you might argue that its not worth the grind...but thats not the argument at hand.

I do not even consider the PvE only skills, whos attribute is bound to certain titles, to be of too deeply relevant in the discussion.

I think people are putting too much emphasis on PvE skills/effects as their platform to change the way titles are affected, because for some reason to them, the PvE skills/effects seem to be very important. Yes, they are powerful and useful and fun, but you can beat the game without them.

I don't see why the game needs to be changed to make it convenient over something like the PvE skills/effects, considering those title tracks can be built naturally with normal gameplay.

I personally havent maxed out any PvE skill related title tracks. I dont feel any want or need to. I dont feel compelled to mindlessly do something that doesn't really do that much, imo. Maybe when i get bored, ill do it.

Theres people who love it, theres people who hate it, then theres people who dont see its a big deal, to require any fixing.

you know what lyra. I can see your point, you want to play the game the way you play it and thats cool. If anything you have been extra crispy polite in your argumentation and i fully respect that.

We have COMPLETELY different approaches to the game no amount of discussion is going to change that, whats more I dont think it really matters whos "right" or "wrong" here as in the end its out of our hands anyways.

I tip my hat to you sir, this subject is 100% over for me now.

Lyra, its a game =.=
It only makes as much sense as you read into it....*pulls hair out*
How much sense does a carbon based life form, conjuring massive amounts of fire from the sky make(elementalist casting firestorm)? Hence your argument that it is essential that titles represent an effective proxy for character development is fundamentally flawed.

Video games suspend imagination, and I think I can safely say without imperical evidence, that they are designed with the intention of simulating abstract environments in which the player may do things s/he desires, otherwise impossible in RL.(you may have a different opinion, this is mine)

Does magic make sense? absolutely not, but is it cool? Yes!

Do account based titles make sense? absolutely not but would it be cool? That’s the matter of discussion, but IMO, Yes!

So do you understand now that whether or not something makes “sense” is no basis for argument for or against the proposal. (unless your playing a game designed specifically for OCD patients)

you can’t possibly comparing guildwars to rl?
LOL if ur gonna argue with predicates, AT LEAST google predicate calculus first, instead of giving us that tripe =P.
I think the point your making is more to do with “fairness” than “logic”, because what u just effectively stated was a whole bunch of assumptions rather than a logical contradiction, which would’ve essentially PROVED that account based titles cannot exist without being unfair =P,

Now on fairness… I really can’t see how this proposal wouldn’t be fair. Under the current proposal, points attained from all the “grind based titles” across characters will be tallied and merged into single account based titles. The player would have had to play the game to achieve each of these in game rewards. Considering that character based titles only allow you access to the in game rewards achieved with that character alone, we could say that:

player plays game content ->player does not get game reward,

whenever that p layer chooses to play a different character. Wouldn’t you say that Account based titles are even more fair than character based?

Hence you cannot progress in the discussion by arguing on fairness, or as you put it “logic”

You responded to my post by saying:
Im glad you considered this, because THIS should be the topic of the discussion. YES part of the game does revolve around roleplaying. The reason that some titles were chosen over others, was to preserve as much of the roleplaying aspect as possible, whilst removing significant barriers to extra character creation- almost a win win!.

Grind based titles were seen by the op to contribute significantly less to the story line than any other of the titles, and this is one of the reasons they were chosen over the others.

Most of the impacts that Account Based titles will have on the game have already been stated, esp in the opening. Whether or not you like the suggestion, should not be influenced, by any of the above mentalities/notions of fairness/ attitues of if it aint broke don’t fix it. This tread is asking for an opinion alone, and as such the only thing that should influence your decision is your preference for either: ROLEPLAY over GAMEPLAY.

I've said it before, this is really an opinions thread, if you don't like it, say so, nobody should object to your well entitled opinion.
Just make sure that your reasoning is sound and every1 is happy

I'm going to go right ahead and give that the Rofflecopter Prize for the Most Naive Comment.

Someone will always complain.

What restrictions are making you not choose to make a new character?

Just because you might choose to re-earn a few (sorry I know you dont like this term) unimportant titles, is no reason to argue that barriers are being put in place to creating a new character.

You can create a new character and not bother earning half these titles or maxing them out, because they dont have any real important.

Ok so it may be important to you as an individual in a "I want it" sense. But there is a difference between being important because you "want" it and being important because you "need" it.

If something is important because you want it, then its not Anet's responsibilty to make it easier to get because you choose to attain it.

If something is important because you need it (to progress), then it IS Anet's responsibilty to ensure its easy to get for all characters. If these titles were important because you needed them, then I would /sign this thread.

But these are all just "wants" and a "choice" to attain.

There is nothing wrong with "wanting something". I spent the last 3 weeks buying destroyer cores for destroyer gloves because I wanted them. But should that mean all my characters can wear them because I dont want to grind for them everytime I make a new character? Ofcourse not!

If you could prove to me there is a need to have all these titles account based, because you cant progress without them being so then I will sign this thread.

But (sorry) you cant prove that (for example) GWEN titles or Luxon/Kurzack titles or LB/SS titles are not important. There is nothing connected to those titles titles which is needed to progress, not even LB gaze.

This all comes down to choice and your choosing to attain these things on each character. Your not forced to attain these everytime you make a new char. So there is no barriers in place, preventing you from creating new chars.

Do you have to get a\every elite armor set when you create a new char?
Do you have to get protector or guardian when you create a new char?
Do you have to max LB/SS, GWEN or faction titles when you create a new char?
Do you need all normal and elite skills when you create a new char?
Do you need 100% exploration when you create a new char?

In a "need" sense, no you dont! In a "want" sense you may do! But its a "want" and not a "need", so its not Anet's job to make those wants account based just because you choose to attain them on every character you create.

I know your going to use the arguement of "its Anet's job to keep the customer happy", and it is. But its more important to fix bugs, errors, connection issues, create weekend events, festival events and focus on GW2 then think about...

"hang on, are our customers happy because they are choosing to max titles EVERY time they create a new char?"

...if this was an issue that was preventing people from progressing then (as I say) I would sign it. But you are not being prevented from doing anything, including creating new chars just because you want max titles everytime you create a new char.

This whole entire thread and debate comes down to choice! I keep saying this! You are choosing to max these titles and to re-play these aspects when you create a new char. No one is twisting your arm and you dont need these things to play the game.

You are perfectly capable of creating a new char and not maxing GWEN, LB/SS etc etc, titles! If you choose to then its your own fault! Anet cant make all titles account based just because of that.

Rank 5 requirment for gwen armor = no problem after handbook + HM

Sunspear and lightbringer = well thier optional you dont have to have them maxed unless you want 1337 sunspear skills.

/notsigned, its too easy now anyways.

A level 1 stood in Shing Jea with I'm Very Important, having done no work for it? No thanks.

/notsigned

Because you just posted in it and so i have to post in it now that i have seen it becasue it was bumped to the top.

Anyway.
The original post has ideas that i think are better than what we have right now so yeah.

/Signed

No I dont think its a good idea when you make those titles account based you will see in a week or two evryone with people know me title

/suxx

hahaha, level 1 synching in Shing Jea... in their underwear with I'm Very Important....

A level 1 stood in Shing Jea with Savior of the Kurzicks having done no work for it? No thanks.
/notsigned

Owait, it's already in :OO

Yeah, because now when people see someone with PNM title they think "wow, he's good at GW"
Owait, they don't

I see each playthrough through the game as a seperate playthrough through the game. Simple as that. Wether i consider that playthrough a development of the character is actually irrelevant.

When i play the storyline as a monk, it has no bearing to my gameplay as a ranger.

You can bring up shared money or transferring of items to counter this point, saying that one character can already affect the other, but i can say that that this is invalidated by the fact that other people playing the game can as easily give me money or items (i can go to my guildies), making storage a mute point.

Account based titles make sense because it is PvP. PvP doesnt make any distinction as to what character you choose, because ultimately it is the player that is affected and the player crafts the story of each instance. (note that i am ignoring stuff like drunkard).

But not really in PvE. Ive already explained this. Being cool is irrelevant to it.


I tend to agree with proposals that are:
1) Good
2) Applicable to the game design
3) Plausible to apply within a reasonable time frame

It doesnt fit the game's design, and in fact is an idea to change something that already works.

My analogy follows the basic function of gameplay.

The true grindbased titles are not part of the storyline at all (such as drunkard). However, SS/LB/Norn/Asura/Vanguard/Dwarven are part of the storyline.

I personally think this game has given up so much good design that makes it an engrossing and deeply involving world because of player convenience. Of course thats a very unpopular opinion.

My reasoning is perfectly sound, I've thought about this issue heavily and come to my conclusions based on how the game is designed to function, that being normally playing through the game. I didn't come to it as a matter of fairness.

You bring up fairness. Ok, lets examine that.

Nowhere in the game is it unfair to player with fewer slots in the gameplay.
Nowhere is the game unfair to players with more slots in the gameplay.(imo, this is a perceived bias by players who are overwhelmed with what seems like too much to do).

Having more or less slots may give you advantage in terms of storage, or choices of characters, but it doesnt affect gameplay directly, since you can only play one slot at a time. So in gameplay instance, you can only carry what fits in your bags, whatever is in your storage is useless.

This change would be unfair to players who have less slots, since accumulated points are across multiple characters, giving a player with many slots an advantage over a player with fewer. It still rewards those who have had more time and more characters. Right off the bat.

/signed so hard it makes your face hurt.

I have 11 characters now, I think. I don't plan to max them all, not by a long shot. But I don't want to keep giving all my gold drops and keys to my dervish when I've been playing my mesmer and ele more these days. It sucks to have to switch when I get candy and booze, and damn it, I have ID'd a lot of junk. I don't want to have to keep passing items around for the best salvage rates.

Player 1 with 1 character grinds for 50hrs to get their max title and gets to use the effect 100% of their play time.
Player 2 with 10 characters grinds for 50hrs to get their max title and gets to use effect 10% of their play time.

Thats the very definition of inequality.

Yea i can completely understand if you would prefer a game that closer resembles real life... Its just no game that i'd ever play, but this IS a discussion on whether or not the proposal should go through

You completely missed the point of my argument -_-.
Im quite sure my point was clear, and if you would take the liberty of re-reading the my post I hope you'll see it because nowhere in that post did i make any argument for or against the proposal, as was the case in the post fish quoted.

You Cannot Argue for/against the proposal on the basis of "REALISM".
You Cannot Argue for/against the proposal on the basis of "NECESSITY"
The trade off is between roleplaying (realism), and gameplay (Abstraction)

At this stage i really can't see any point in continuing the discussion, aside from people who support the decision, cos if you don't understand the merits of an account based system now, you prolly never will =/

So you dont want anyone who is against this idea to post any replies? Thats always the best way to have a debate isnt it, by just ignoring those who apose it!

Ofcourse there are merits to having most titles account based and IMO the wisdom, treasure hunter and drunk'n ones should be because they are just meaningless titles that do nothing except at a % level to your lockpick.

But those merits are nothing more then making it easier for each of your characters to have more maxed titles without actually putting most of the effort in.

You dont need to have all the titles maxed out on all the characters you create. Yes you might want it, but why do you need it?

Why shouuld a lvl1 be KOABD or higher? a title that is intended to show the effort put in by an individual. Rationalise that for me!

Why wont you accept that its not Anet's fault or business if you choose to max all these titles out on every character you own?

I only accept that the wisdom, treasure hunter and drunk'en title should be account based because they have HUGE max levels and they dont give any staggering benefit to pve, if at all.

GWEN, SS/LB and Faction titles dont need to be account based, purely because there is no pressure or force to max them out on all your characters.

You dont need rank10 drawf, Norn, Asura and Vanguard on every character you own. Its not going to give you any edge that you need to progress.

You dont need SS/LB maxed out on all your characters to play NF and the same goes for faction titles.

Why can you not accept that it isnt Anets reponsibilty whether you choose to max these titles out on all your characters? Stop trying to pass the buck and blame them. They havent pressured you into doing it, they havent forced you or cohersed you into it.

There are no barriers in place to prevent you creating new characters, becase none of this stufff your winging about grinding, needs to be grinded!

Your characters are all perfectly capable of playing the game without maxing all the same titles out. No one judges you on titles, so you cant argue its a peer pressure thing.

Also most of these titles you want to make account based, come with status effects or increase pve only skill damage or effects. Why should a player be able to start a new game or GWEN with instant +damage or +protecton against a certain creature?

It make no sense because they didnt earn that right as a character. They have never set foot in that land or that continent and somehow they have a maxed out status effect which gives extra damage?

That just makes no sense! It also gives them an edge (not important one) against new players, if they can do early quests or dungeons which include destroyers and they instantly have +15 damage against them.

How can a character who has never even seen a destroyer before have +damage against it? it removes the entire point and the difficulty from the game. It kills the storyline and turns on its head if a player can have something from a land they never been to.

I bet if they did this and made it account based, people would start complaining GWEN and NF were too easy because their characters all suddenly had maxed status effects and maxed pve only titles instantly.

Player 1 grinds 1 character and gets 100% effect.
Player 2 has 10 characters but each character has 100% effect of their title equal to the time spent with that character.

Thats equal.

Just because player 1 chooses to grind only 1 character is not a matter of fairness to player 2.

Player 2 not having more time is not a game problem.


This isnt about realism. Its about a functioning game design that people want to change.

This isnt about realism. Its about a functioning game design that people want to change.

The game progresses through gameplay.

Turning certain titles that is gained through PvE gameplay, into an account based titles which affects all gameplay breaks this very basic game design.

I will repeat it AGAIN. Just because i disagree, doesn't mean I don't understand. Stop using ad hominem.

I completely understand the proposal, and I dont agree with it. If i didnt understand it, and disagreed with it, that would be ignorant.

Sometimes i have problems articulating my exact reasoning, but that doesn't make it any less valid, or make me ignorant of your posts.

Nah. By doing so. People are forced to focus in one single character.
Look at PvP, it doen't matter which profession you use.

You can say "Oh, nobody is forced". But they are. If they want to catch those who focus in one single character, they have to do so. You only can show one character at a time.

The same should be in PvP, so people don't think on getting more slots as something futile, since they will never fully enjoy them.

But what if they were doing it for different classes, and ANET then comes along and nerfs everything player 2 was grinding for to the point where it is useless ?
They both put in similar work, but now only player 1 has any reward for it. Player 2 is screwed over even more if they had to chose between the class they did grind for and the class player 1 has.

To give an actual example of this, lets say player 1 only has a necromancer, player 2 has a necro and monk. This is before seed of life got nerfed.

Player 1 grinds up sunspear on their necro for Necrosis. Player 2 decides that Seed of Life would be more useful a skill to grind up so chooses his monk. So they both go grind it up using wurms, meaning the work is identical for them. Then the nerf comes and even though they both put in identical work, only player 1 benefits post-nerf because he chose the class that didn't have the nerf.

If we go account based then even after the nerf player 2 would still have stat bonuses to show for it. But with character based titles I don't see how the above situation is fair.

It doesn't matter how much time player 1 has. They could be playing 24x7 and they'd still have less access to the effects than a player with one character. Player 1 doesn't have a right more effect for less work just because they play with a single character


When we are talking about a game, there is on one NEED - the need to have FUN. From your posts I can gather that the only thing you need to have fun is to be completing a storyline. For players like me the game doesn't begin until the story line is complete all stats are maxed and the playing field is level. What character based titles does is take the time to make an account play ready from about 10-30hrs per toon to hundreds of hours per toon.

This is a gaming NEED, I can tell you that because since the title based skills have been introduced, My gw time has dropped from 15-20hrs a week down to 2-4 hours a week. Without a level playing field, the game isn't fun. Even if I did choose to spend the thousands hours required to max out the titles on all the toons across my account, it wouldn't do any good because unless every other player did too, the playing field would still not be level.

signed for the idea about having effects account wide but title char based.
solves the whoel thing for me.

Im aware of your PvE skill example since you posted it in the OP as "resistant to nerf" reasons.

I disregard it as a valid reason simply because PvE skills are not part mandatory or part main storyline to recieve any special concession.

What about when skills are nerfed and whole builds died out because of a skill nerf?
What if a player spent time and money on specific equipment designed around those builds?

nerfs happen.
They affect players.
They affect specific classes.
They affect specific builds.

Your example is flawed, since a skill nerf that makes a skill useless affects all players who use that skill, regardless of however that skill was obtained.

Elite skills that get nerfed, any character who capped the elite would have a useless skill, and wasted their time and money capping (or grinding balth points)

You make it seem like PvE skills getting nerfed is something so special.

But it's not only about PvE skills.

Let's look at the title that has a more logical reason tobe come account wide:
Seeker of Wisdom. Now Let's make a level 1 character in Factions or Nightfall. Let's leave it in the first Town. Never play with it.
- Will it ever earn a not identified gold? No. You don't play with it.
- Can you get Seeker of wisdom? Yes you can. Maxed.
- Who gets the gold items? The other characters.
- Whom is the merit of? Of the other characters.
- Can other characters benefit from it? Yes, the can use the Xunlai storage and trade stuff so the level 2 salvages them.
- Is it account wide? YES.

Let's look now to Treasure hunter.
- Can a level 2 get it? No. In Factions and Nightfall It's impossible to get to high end chest areas without earning EXP. And to get to chests, people has to kill some stuff. Only those who go out there and open chests. Get points.
- Is it account wide? NO.

Now look at Skill hunter.
- Can a level 2 get it? Yes.
- Can other characters benefit from it? No.
- It's account wide? NO.

See how it is?

Now for the Promotion and Reputation points.
- Can a level 1 get it? Yes.
- Can the other characters benefit from it? Yea! It's account wide!
- It is account wide? YES, it is, XDDD.
Its is done for Luxon/Kurcick. Yeah, you can earn those points in PvP, but you can do so also without ever stepping in a PvP area. Yet you have to earn the points. In that title, having more characters is better since the quests are the fastests way to get the points.

So...

Irregular. Everything must be regular like crystals and fractals. Challenges in all campaings, insigniaan inscriptions in all campaings, etc...
Everything the same.
To make things regular, either the Luxon/Kurzcik splits, or the others merge.

Yeah. Regular, like crystals.

I did agree to Seeker of Wisdom being account based, because its effects (unlocking) affect the whole account with every ID.

but on to the kurz/lux thing...

You can earn Luxon/Kurzick without ever stepping into PvE. You can earn it without ever stepping into PvP.

Luxon/Kurzick cannot be split unless you want to removed PvP as an option to earn it. This isnt possible because of the PvP/PvE missions in Factions specifically.

This complicates Lux/Kurz from ever being simply a PvE based title or a PvP based title, even without the Pve skill attachment.

Using the kurz/lux as an example, we can make Those other titles account based if we can add pvp ways to gain those points.

That way it becomes a measure of the player and not the character.

Luxon/Kurzick is a terrible counterpoint to use, you do all understand this, right?

The original conception of that title track did not include anything pve-based, except, perhaps, the path you took for Faction's later missions, and even then, a miniscule effect.

The quests in game weren't meant to be the primary means of acquiring faction; ab was. These titles were meant to display perhaps how many battles/experience you had with AB. Not to confer benefits.

So stop using this example. Lucky/Unlucky was just stupidity on the side of ANet, or perhaps, the inclination of ANet to make shit unnecessarily easy to acquire, in this case, account wide titles.

In case you weren't aware, the "Friend of..." titles were only for showing how much faction you donated to your alliance, that's it. The only reason for donating faction, aside from the title, were the obvious PvE benefits of town owning, and ultimately, the elite missions. The reward for those account-based titles were always PvE-only.

They were never a way of showing your experience with AB, since there were PvE ways of getting Faction, and in fact, the quickest way to get the Faction were the repeatable quests, not AB.

The Kurzick/Luxon titles are in fact the best example of a PvE title, with PvE benefits, that's account-based. The fact that you can get the faction by doing "PvP" is just another means of getting the titles, which make them even that much easier (and fun) than any of the rep titles, Sunspear, and Lightbringer - yet they are the ones that are account-based. To me, that is the biggest divide in standards with the character-based vs. account-based titles that have skills/effects. I honestly don't see how people can be ok with that, but not ok with this suggestion.

The Kurz/Lux titles were meant to provide an indicator of experience in the AB arenas, much in the same fashion that the hero titles do.

So.....

GG.

These titles had no bonus whatsoever for essentially a year. It was only after the ridiculous modifications with respect to making them much more easily obtainable and the addition of broken faction title skills that pve'ers paid them any attention.

You're still failing, this argument is still pointless, and it's the same 3 people whining about this.

Did you read anything I typed? Apparently not. If you can acquire the titles via PvE, and much faster at that, how are they any indication of how much experience you have in AB? Serious question.

Also, the titles had no bonus, but donating faction did - and it was purely PvE-related. It doesn't matter if the titles had an effect at first anyway, since they do now. Are you seriously arguing facts, here?

I am arguing facts.

Simply because yours are wrong.

FFF wasn't an intended way of gathering faction.
AB is a PvP arena, despite the rock-bottom skill level required. The titles were to indicate experience in those arenas for the purpose of grouping up....like HA.

And they didn't have an effect previously, except for the one mentioned, thus, they were account wide for the purpose of rolling pvp characters.

Just because ANet has a synapse misfire and introduces a bunch of shitty skills to dumb this game down doesn't mean that the original purpose of the title changes.

So....

where are you right again?

Getting faction through repeatable quests was intended, ya know, since Anet designed it that way. Designed as a faster way to get faction is what's debatable, not that it was a way to get faction. The titles once proved only one thing - that you believed in your alliance enough to contribute to it. Remember, you could always buy Jade and Amber with it, which then didn't add anything to the title.

You could be extremely "skilled" in AB/JQ/FA, but only purchase Jade and Amber; or grinding the faction quests and put it all into your title. So that said, how is the title proof of anything but what you spend your faction on? You're arguing your view of the facts, rather than the truth. You're simply wrong.

How about they just add handbooks to the earlier 2 or 3 campaigns to make it easier to earn points for their specialise titles. That should make it alot easier and we dont need to make titles account based.

The problem isnt making titles account based, its making it easier to get those points. GWEN points are very easy to get because of handbooks and dungeon guides, so why not use the same system in factions and NF?

It's really about the titles, I think, for most people that want this.

If it's not about the titles, then good. Have what you want.

How can it not be about what I mentioned?

people are complaining because they dont want to do the same thing over and over again to get the same end result. Obviously turning the title system on its head to remove grind is just stupid, so why not just fix how we earn those titles?

Most of the titles in question just rely on earning points, so make those pointss easier to get like in GWEN.

Problem solved... use gwens system in other campaigns.

And yet doing the same dungeons and missions over and over again isn't grind?

-_0
Grind was always easy. That's not why people are complaining. People are complaining because grind is repeative, boring, unchallenging task and moreover makes grindy character better than non-grindy character even tho' they both can have the same skillbars.