Make all grind-based titles account based.

The problem with having to redo quests and such, is that when you take 5 chars through the game, you have already done them all 5 times. Let alone having to do them another however many extra times on each char to max the title.

Assuming you are at R5 after doing everything thats 3 NM Hero's Handbooks + 3 HM Hero's Handbooks.
7 times just for 1 char to max 1 title. 28 times for all titles. 140 times for 5 chars.


The reason the titles arent considered skill based is because given enough time, even the worst player could max it. Even if they can only get 1 point each time in HM. With enough time they would max it.

Something like protector has a set objective that has to be completed. If you fail that obj you have to start over. If you arent good enough to do it, without improving, you wont get it.

/signed for non-bolded

The 6 that are bolded are storyline-specific. Also if you have max on one character you could access the 15k sellers etc. Without doing any work with that specific character.
The rest though I agree.

Oh, and add the Pre-Searing (LDOA) title to that list (deathlevel grind I feel doesn't take THAT much skill).

And whats wrong with that?

It's repetitive. Thats the problem.

The title isn't the problem or the what its attached to or that its pve based or account based.

The problem is that its boring and repetitive.

I propose a compromise.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10219511

I could argue that given enough time you can achieve protector and guardian. Both of which I have on all 3 campaigns, so I know.

Those titles can be hard and while they do require some skill, you dont have to be an amazing player to achieve them. You can also get run through alot of missons for protector and even some hard mode ones.

The issue is that its all down to opinion.

I could argue that all titles dont require skill and given enough time you can accomplish any of them, and thats pretty much true.

Does that mean we should make protector and guardian titles account based?

Obviously not, becase that would be missleading to others!

Although I now await the person who will try to argue that its ok to have protector and gaurdian be account based and then I will just point and laugh.

What aspect of GWs doesnt need to be repeated to on degree or another? I think you'l find most of it gets repeated everytime you make a character. Should we make missions and quests account based?

I like that idea actually Lyra, however I would include the title effects being maxed. Because that would still leave a disadvantage for those with multiple chars.

Otherwise its deffinately a nice soloution.


Still doesnt help for people who max different titles on different chars and so cant get KOABD. So I would still want something added to allow those players to display certain maxed titles across all chars.


*edit to include freekedoutfish's post*

But thats not true.
If player X cant beat bounus Z he will never be able to max the title. He cant slowly do bits of the bounus and then add it all together at the end. If they improve yes, which is what makes it skill.

But someone who is unable to complete it and doesnt improve will never be able to.

Ofcourse anyone can get protector or guardian, you just need to get run through it or join a decent PUG! In which case its not a sign of their skill, its a sign of someone elses.

So again, I could argue all titles dont require skill and just take time.

What about LDOA? Thats purely requires death leveling!

Yes but I wasnt counting outside factors, simply because that makes to many variables.

Of course if I got the England team to play in one of my Sunday games I would win. So does that mean football isnt skillful since I can get better players to do the work for me?

I could get someone else to control my character for a mission im stuck on for example. So it can only be based on assuming 1 single level of skill across the group. Assuming the skill of the group isnt high enough as a group they will never complete it if they dont improve.


As for LDOA having that across the account would mean you could get survivor AND LDOA. Which would cause a lot of problems about 1 campaign having more titles. So I feel thats best left as it is.

Whats the most realistic situation?

A player tries to complete a mission and bonus or on masters with henches and fails. They then try a few more times and cant do it.

Do they give up or try to use a PUG?

I would say using a PUG was the more realistic answer. So its not about taking lots of different variables into account, its about concidering the most likely situation.

In that case its safe to say alot of people have had help doing missions (including bonus and masters) at one time or another. Im not saying all have, but a big % will have.

That means a large % of players have used someone elses skills to help with a mission and to achieve protector and/or guardian. Also lot of missions really are either easy or their your basic kill, kill, kill mission.

Can you say that a basic killing mission is skill based, or just hack and slash and casting?

You cant 100% say that all missions are 100% skill based for that reason. Alot of missions are run for the player. Alot of missions are completed using PUGs and help. Alot of people use consumables to remove DP which make the misson easier.

All realistic and existing situations. Those things do happen!

For that very reason I can argue that not all missions and the protector title are 100% based on skill. Does that make the protector and gaurdian title a grind based title?

By your logic is does. I dont like saying that and I personally disgree with my own conclusion. But im going by your definition!

Your definition of a grind title, is one which doesnt require skill. It only requires time to do and achieve the end result. Am I right?

If I am, then we must include protector and guardian into your list of account based titles, because its not 100% skill based.




I say all this to try and show how the OP is flawed in some ways. Because people arent being rational. They are picking and choosing titles and calling them "grind" purely because they want the end result in an easier fashion.

Their not calling them "grind" out of rational thought. Because if they did think about it, they would realise grind is interconnected to all titles.

For that reason you cant pick and choose a select few and say "these should be account based because they have grind" and ignore the rest. If you argue one title involves grind then they must all involved grind.

But as you have admitted, we cant make all titles account based.

Titles like protector and guardian and LDOA and Survivor have to be individual because it make sense!

That then (IMO) means we have to keep these titles individual! You cant just pick and choose because it suits you!

Hows this for a definition: a grind based title is a title that may be progressed via the completion of non-unique tasks (ie absolutely no distinction whatsoever).

I think that should suffice as a formal definition of a grind based title.

Why this definition? because it means that each progressive stage of the title is a perfect substitute for every other stage, and thus, it would be simple to combine progress, from one player across multiple, distinct characters into a single title track.

You'll find that each title track suggested for changes follows this definition to the letter, and all those that do not, are not suggested.

That kind of works for the LB and SS titles, but not the GWEN titles. Atleast not if I understand you right. The reason being that the GWEN titles can be maxed by repeating quests and dungeons and filling books.

Where as the LB and SS titles are purely bounty hunting.

Oh, well...
don't remember if I signed already... there are so many threads about making (SOME) pve titles account wide...

If this isn't already /signed by me, then

/signed.

Then at least books should be added to all campaigns, to reward replaying all missions.

A good reward for those that help allies, friends and strangers.

I actually suggested that in a thread, as a way to solve this issue, and it didnt get far!

Hence the reason I said you take the skill of the group as a whole. If the same group fails and doesnt improve they will never complete it. If they replace someone with a better play the skill level of the group rises.

That still makes it skill based, the level of skill required for the group doesnt need to be constant across it. But as long as, as a team, they have enough skill to pass it that makes it skill based.

Because noticing who is holding you back, adjusting builds and team composition is also skill based.

I completely agree with that! I was just trying to get this idea accross that you could still complete a mission at all levels, even with a bad player in your team.

That bad player then gets a free ride! But I do agree you can have skilfull teams too who do deserve that prestige. But I personally wouldnt always say a mission requires skill 100% of the time.

Especially those missions which can get run!

The point is they cant be grinded. If the team doesnt meet the skill level required they cant slowly do bits of it each turn.

Protect an NPC the first time.
Go kill an extra boss the second time.
Carry something to NPC Y the third time.

If they cant do it all in one go they cant grind out little bits of it.

You've lost me in your logic, so Im not going to try and understand it. But im sure it makes sense to someone.

Well basically if the team as a whole isnt good enough to complete all objectives in one go, without improving, they will never achieve it.

Unlike a title where you can slowly claw your way up without skill. As with my previous example of the rep titles, even if you can only get 50 points before everyone hits 60DP in HM. Eventually with enough time you would max it.

Shouldn't one of you guys start a discussion in Riverside Inn on Title grinding or something?

Your posts are well beyond the topic of discussion on the OP's suggestion, like 10 pages ago. There's people still trying to input their opinion specifically to what the thread *was* about.

Your discussion is undoubtedly interesting, Shouldn't it be taken to a better suited forum? There's a lot more users there anyway. I can only imagine the hundreds of pages that such a thread would bring...

Yeah your right Amon, sorry about that.

I also feel the OP summed up all the points very well, to the point that most questions being asked have already been answered.

Please Anet make these grind point titles all Account Based

The points when not account based penalize the players that play a variety of characters. It rewards the player who has only one or very few characters that they play all the time.

I play nearly all the classes, 9 out of 10, and am thinking of starting another, but with more and more title skills I am rethinking why. I like playing all the classes, it keeps the game fresh gives the player lots of options and opportunities for new things. Point titles take away from variety and this playing style if they are character based. With account based point titles, like Factions or Kurzick, this would be removed.

If a person plays one character or only a few, then I would suggest that person will be finished with the game soon and move on to some other game. The replay value of GW is all the variety of classes which also gives the player more options for many different things.

So Please Please find a way to make these account based and reward those that are exploring all of what GW has to offer and make it less of a grind on a single class.

completely wrong.

replay value is different for all people .

i play only a few classes and i have been playing since early beta

since you cant use those skills on each other there is no penalty unless you want to farm a little faster

/signed I hate grind feasting as much as the rest of you.

- Drunkard
- Sweet Tooth
- Treasure Hunter
- Wisdom
- Lightbringer
- Sunspear
- Asura
- Deldrimor
- Ebon Vanguard
- Norn
I disagree with the bolded ones.

I have the same problem. I'd love to play other chars instead of just my monk but she's become my title hog, so now I don't even really touch any of my other chars because doing anything else on them seems like a waste of time.

/signed

/signed if I haven't already.

In particular, grind titles like
-Sunspear
-Lightbringer
-Norn
-Asura
-Vanguard
-Dwarf
really needed to be and should be account-based.

Bump - One of the longer threads, so there is some passion around this.
/signed

there's not passion in this thread lol, stop bumping it.

lol u.

NO U

This thread is baed

/signed.

But imho by the time gw2 comes out your HoM will have to be account based. otherwise how will gw2 know what titles to carry over for your bonuses. I'm guessing you will enter your account name, not your character name, when transfering titles to gw2

/signed

Mainly because having a family, a job and a life outside of gaming makes it nigh on impossible to max out the 'grind' titles for multiple characters, and I have 11 of 'em.

Then don't do it? *gasp*

/notsigned (unless i've already posted this in the months ago this thread was made).

Creating a lvl1 char wearing I Have Many Leather Bound Books (4) as if that char has earnt it is a complete joke.

The Player has earned it.


Its the same person behind the chars. Just because some people like to play multiple chars they shouldnt be able to show what they have achieved on another char?

Titles are there for the player. The char couldnt care less if they have a title or not.

I can't remember if I /signed this already or not. I think I did, but I didn't see any posts by me, so yeah. Basically, what Isileth said. I have done a hell of a lot of IDing items, grinding rep points, etc. No matter how different the character is, it's still the same chick at the keyboard, playing on through and thanking various deities that Canthan faction at least is account-based. It makes everything SO much easier.

I like having a lot of characters and gameplay choices, but earning enough points to continue storylines/get at good stuff in GW:EN? Not so much.

Players are the ones deserving things, and characters are the ones that travel through the plot.

Making a certain mission, or being able to reach an area to explore or vanquish, or getting certain skills... that is either plot related or profession related, exclusive to the character.

But identifiying a gold item that have been found in the Zaishen chest?

Anyone can have 10 PvP characters, and it would never matter who identifies the item.

I agree to this and having the suggested titles account-based would be nice.
/Signed

HOLY CRAP
THAT WOULD BE TOTALLY GAME BREAKING AND IMBA

The character DIDN'T earn it. I earned it. Account based grind titles encourages this idea and is awesome, so stfu.

/notsigned

I worked long and hard with a lot of patience to get my Sunspear title to max rank. I would not appreciate it if I go from rank 10, to rank 1 because of being an account title. However, it wouldn't be fair to anyone who has maxed it out twice, to have 50,000 points be minused off their total earnings. So, in conclusion you have to leave the system alone. You just have to deal with the conditions you have now. I don't find it that much of a big deal to swap all golds to my warrior to identify.

Subject-verb agreement is ftw.

So is recognizing who you're talking to.

Anyways, I'll keep /notsigning this idea, 1. because it won't happen, 2. because I don't want it to happen

It wouldnt go down. Assuming you do indeed have R10, all your chars would have R10.

They dont lose anything. Both chars would still have R10.