Make all grind-based titles account based.

Do you actually enjoy running the SS/LB route ?

If yes, tell me how much time you spend running it now that you have maxed both those titles. If you say none, why do you say you enjoy it if you don't go back ?

Fair enough, except for when the PUGs exclude you for avoiding the grind you find boring. Especially for people who don't have enough playing time to do they parts they enjoy and grind up the titles.

For me I struggle to appreciate what I can see only as a way for game developers to increase how long people spend playing their game with minimal extra content. If they want to change the time people spend, all they do is alter a few numbers in the code.

Ok, which would be useful on a monk ?

When I want to play an offensive build, I have other characters for that. So that rules out any of the purely offensive Sunspear skills.

Never Rampage Alone gives regen, but only if I spend another skill slot on a pet.
Eternal Aura is useful mainly for its skill recharge. But thats only for Dervish skills.
Vampirism might be useful. But I can avoid aggro on myself reasonably well, so I would be better served by something that can be used on my allies.
"There's Nothing to Fear!" is useless when it only lasts 4 seconds.
Critical Agility has a useful armor boost. But with 0 in critical strikes I won't be able to keep it up, especially when I stop attacking to cast skills.

So which skill would be useful ?

I would only consider dumping the armor if I had that character for specific builds, instead of for how the class plays in general, and if I was using a character that narrowly (such as a farming character) I don't see why I would buy it anything above the cheapest armor needed. So I don't see much time being wasted here, and you can still salvage the armor for some of the gold back. So you haven't wasted much time there.

But when a PvE skill gets nerfed then you either:
- Find something else that uses the same title track, which lessens the wastage depending on how often you use the other effects.
- Don't find anything else. Then the time you spent grinding up the title is wasted.

Under the current system when a nerf comes to the PvE skills, unless the character who had the grind can make use of another effect from the same title*, the time is wasted. With the titles being account based, people with multiple characters can still have that work being useful on other characters.



So if your going to nitpick words, what is the difference between a "bad decision" and a "mistake" in the context of this thread ?

Ok, I'll allow giving some blame to the PUG's. Then again they are only doing what they can to give themselves the best chance of success. It is the grind system that makes people who haven't spent the time grinding less effective. Remove the stat bonuses from the grind, then you remove the reason that PUGs exclude the low ranked players.

So since it is a combination of both the grind system and the PUGs, how can we remove all the blame from the grind system ?

So do you have any better ideas about how to stop this unfairness ?

I am aware of builds that did manage to defeat the first 4 areas there before GW:EN. They made use of meteor shower, a Prophesies skill. The reason they used that build is probably because it gave them the best chance of success there. I'm not sure of the build to kill Mallyx, but I think it made use of Factions PvE only skills.

The reason they switched to Ursanway looks to be the same reason. The reason they require a specific rank is because higher ranks give higher chance of success, and there are enough people >= to that rank to reliably form groups with the restriction.

So because the people in the PUGs want the best chance of success, they go for whichever build they think gives them the best chance. Before GW:EN this was a build that required people to own Prophesies. When GW:EN came along and PUGs realised that Ursanway gives a better chance of success, they switched to it. If Ursan Blessing gets nerfed enough to be useless, I'd expect the PUGs to switch to something else.

Those reason is just a guess, but if you want to say I'm wrong you will need to come up with a better reason.

Except that because of the PUG mentality, some areas become difficult to even get groups for. So while it may theoretically doable, how do you go about getting enough people to make the attempt ?

Or do absolutely nothing and Anet saves time to find things more important to deal with.

/not signed too all titles

/signed to wisdom and treasure hunter

Like what? ;d Launching Wintersday event?
I'd love to see what are these 'more important things', mini-pets? Skill balance? oh wait ;d

I was thinking about this very topic myself after having 6 characters maxed right before eye of north..now I am having a hard time deciding which character to continue maxing titles on while ditching the others....

Soooooo /signed. That OR make the titles easier to achieve. But then that would upset the players who spent a lot of time getting them. So yeah, /signed

So a lvl 10 char, (pre req for entering EoTN Now)

With a maxed out Norn title can instantly have the health up'g from the story teller and max norn armour and weapons?

*sigh

OKay what about a R8 LB on a Lvl 2 char. "pick me!" I have R8 LB and im level 2!

Anyone else even seeing issues here?

I say again /notsigned and go home.

For the Norn title, I don't see any issues coming from making your potential allies stronger. And even if I did, I can't see how they would matter because I never party with anyone of a lower level than the henchmen.

As for LB, show me how a level 2 character can reach both areas where they face LB effected enemies. Not to mention that they would still have to reach Chantry of Secrets to get any effect from the title.

So what issues were you thinking of ?

/signed
love the idea and would get me back into title farming again..

It's true... Active tittle effects do not activate until you reach certain areas...

On top of that, to get Hero Skills a character would need to use either it's own skill points or being able to acquire its own hero skill points...

Hm... so I think that at least some ranks should be earned before getting the account-wide value.

By the time you reach the chantry of secrets, you should be rank 7 sunspear (Or even more) so that could be an example.

Earn some ranks, and after getting rank X, the character is givven the 'account-wide' version.

That way would be absolutely impossible for a leve 1 to get the titles just right away.

Rank 3..8 for the Gwen titles
Rank 1..4 for the Lightbringer.
Rank 7..8 for the Sunspear.
Rank 1..3 for the Wisdom title.
Rank 1 for the Drunkard/Sweet tooth titles.
Etc.

No more 'level 1 right away'.

/signed

very logical argument.

/not signed

I have a mesmer in pre. lvl 5 at the moment. been there for a year. I have a necro with the title "I have many leather bound books". Worked long and hard to reach that point too. Now your saying make it account wide and up the numbers? I dont think so. For 1, how many of you out there would lose that much saught after title and are willing to lose it because all the sudden you need 100,000 more LB points? not me, thank you very much.
As for my mesmer in pre...she has yet to deserve to wear the title my necro has earned.
I will agree with the wisdom, treasure hunter, sweet tooth and drunkard titles to be account based, as long as I still get my 58% chance of not breaking lockpicks in easy mode on my necro. If that number would drop, forget it. 46% on all other charicters at the moment except of course pre mesmer.

And even if they did combine all the points earned on all charicters, I would still lose the LB and sunsprear title I have earned on my necro. Shes the only one I bothered to get maxed. All others are still at lvl 3 or below on LB, and maybe lvl 7 sunsprear.

So once again...No thank you. I hate the grind as much if not more then the next person, but im not willing to lose the titles I do have to combine them and make them all (or mostly all) account based.

Why yes so every character I have can have Koabd -_-

/notsigned

Again the KoaBD argument.

IT can be made so you have to reach at least a certain rank before the track becoming account, and having to max it in at least one character before, like:

- Add two tabs to the Hero panel. One for the character tiles, and another one for the account-wide.

- Character A. Works in lightbringer. His title appears in the Character list.
- Character A. Maxes Lightbringer. Character's A Sunspear becomes the account wide version of the title, and appears also in the account-wide list. The title maxed is removed from the character list.
- Character B is made. Do not have title 1. He cannot select the account-wide version (Red error message, you have to reach at least rank X with your character to be able to select this account-wide title)
- Character B reaches rank 4/8 of Lightbringer. Character B can now select the Account wide version of Lightbringer instead of its won one. Lightbringer skills use the account wide version instead of the character version, but the character can keep working on his own title rank for Hero points.
- Character B reaches 8/8 lightbringer, the title is removed from the account list and further points are added to the account wide title instead.

See? Can be made.

/not signed. They did it deliberately to make people focus on one character. Most of the rep titles are ridiculously easy to max anyway (people had some gwen titles up to level 8 a week after release, and maxed less than a week after HM came out) The hall of monuments is character based, not account based. If you make that many titles account based, they might as well throw out the hom and make every title account based. At which point, why the hell play other characters anyway. You could start a level 1 character that's already maxed every title and finished everything.

Why not make LDOA and survivor account based (or at least have a 1 time transfer from one character to another), since they're mutually exclusive people going for them could finally get both. Eh, /notsigned.

/signed

Most of the titles don't make u stronger even if u get them at the beginning of the game with a new character... You still need to reach some locations to get those skills title-based.

/not signed

It's good the way it is at the moment, no changes are needed...
As probably 999999 people said already, you reach such a title on 1 of your characters, not on another, another one hasn't the right to be able to show it.

I find this idea as a very good idea, in fact I was thinking that Anet should make at least the reputation titles (ss, lb, norn, vanguard, asura, and dwarf) into accountn based titles with the same or similar ranking numberes compared to the kurz/lux titles *maybe for some, such as ss, make it 1000 less then the kurz/lux titles since low lvls need those titles to progress in the game*. I am not opposed to make the other 4 titles mentioned (treasure, wisdom, drunkard, sweet tooth) account based titles, and for wisdom and treasure, you might not have to raise the numbers, at least not much.

As for the encouragement to play few characters, it is in fact titles that are keeping me on my 3 mains instead of what I originally wanted *one character per profession*, so with that I agree.

For those argueing with the KoaBD title track, the answer is in 3 forms. 1) You must have a certain rank to show the title as account based *less likely*. 2) raise the points needed much higher, like ss/lb can be made to 500k to max instead of 50k just multiply the amount of pointed NEEDED by 1k or something, while not added to the points that are obtained *other then adding all character's points*. 3)Raise the amount of titles needed to KoaBD, while reducing the amount of ranks as well *example r1=10 maxed titles, r2=20, etc., etc.* although I would agree with my 2nd idea for how to solve the problem personally.

In short, I think this is a good idea and even the KoaBD problem can be worked out. /Signed

/signed

great idea and i agree 100%

Ok I can see that you don't like the idea of increasing the grind required for each title. What about if the titles still required the same number of points ?
Then you can simply chose to not display the title. Just like you do with the PvP titles. Or do you have an argument to explain why a character who doesn't have max armor or all 200 attribute points deserves to wear a PvP title ?



So why is limiting people to one or two characters a good thing ?

Personally I find that if someone has more characters, they are more flexible when helping guildmates because they can switch to whichever character the group can make the best use of.
Some people can play guild wars for 8 hours a day easy. Other people only get a few hours a week. So the number of days isn't really relevant.

What is relevant is the number of hours of playtime they spent grinding up the titles. So how many hours are we talking per character ?

How many people have maxed the grind titles across 6 or more characters ?

Yes the grind titles are easy. In fact the titles being easy is the problem because while they are easy, they require a lot of time to max them out.
Why should some titles be made account based just because other titles are ?
Why should your thoughts on these titles matter since they aren't the titles that this thread is asking to be changed ?

/I sign this
It looks logical, fair.. perfect

While playing gw, my mind came back to this arguement, and I realized that the only title that would be very harmful to change in the game would be the Sunspear title, seeing how brand new nf characters need certain ranks to progress in the game. So I must change my stance on this. Now, out of fairness for new players, the only title that should not change is Sunspear.

However, the Wisdom and Treasure hunter should definantly be made to an account based title, seeing how its the most annoying to max, especially on multiple characters. And if any title is changed I suggest these two titles to be the first in line for change.

Well I agree Wisdom and Treasure hunter should be account based and Legendary Skill hunter!!!!! Its just logical, say you cap all the ele elites with your ele and hmmm I know cap all the ranger skills with your ranger and so on. Saves wasting gold and time having to recap skills when you need them. Pointless having to cap all those skills on one character and only a handfull will be useful for any builds.

/notsigned... Not that's its going to change anyones mind.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I don't see a reason as to why I have to get R5 Asuran or whatever on each character that I want to buy the armor for. I thought Guild Wars was supposed to be an MMO without the grind, but grind has been implemented with the Nightfall and EoTN titles (like Lightbringer, Sunspear, and whatnot).

/wholehearted sign

Wow I was just thinking about making a thread like this until I saw this one.

/definitely signed

I have 4 characters and like many people already mentioned, I can't imagine having to grind all these titles for all of them. One should be enough.

Stop being lazy and go grind. If you don't like grind don't play.

/signed

but anet would never do this.

i dont think they well at least.

Thanks for the constructive post. If you like grind, why don't you go play WoW?

because wow is not a game that's pure grind.

oh and
/notsigned. nice idea, 2 years ago, cannot change the system now after hundred of players have done the hard titles, wont happen, they wont give them all for free to anyone.
their task is to make people play less characters to save server space... live with it

Hey, were are here because we grinded, we don't liked it, and we want to grind less with the rest of our characters, specially when we have 10 or more.

/sign

I'm actually in favor of EVERY title being account-wide; Even if it means a level 2 Assassin carrying the Elona Cartography title.

It doesn't matter which avatar completes the task; you're really the one doing it.

Exactly.
After 3,500 hours played, i dont have a SINGLE maxed title. Why ? because i cant imagine sticking to a single character. Because i want to understand game mechanics. Because i want to be good.
My HoM is empty. I wont have a single reward for all the time I invested if i switch to GW2.
But a player who played only his "main" char, thus having a short point of view of others possibility, will be rewarded.
By the way, i doubt that much ppl would be pissed by this update. I only saw a "god amongst mortals" once.

I have done the same thing, i played all the professions many different ways through the game/s and only recently over the last couple of months have i started playing one main character which is my necro.

It is not a complaint, i have loved every minute of it but i think that title wize it should have been a little more thought out, if that is even possible with more than one profession?

Even if I'm not very happy to grind, i would like to rise my titles up, during normal game (capping an elite for ex). Logging a "main char" before grinding would really piss me off.
I would have to choose a char to be a main first. Then log it, and.. nooo argg i dont want to play ele again !

Yup, as in many RPG in many games the problem is choice, you have to choose the character you favor and almost forget about the rest if you want to fill a HoM.

Treating only those that focus in a single character is not good for a game. Specially when you get more cash by selling character slots.

Well, after reading that thread and an older one on the same subject, it looks like there is a major consensus for the titles to be account based.
What would be different ?
. For a player who is KoaBD 5 on one character, he would be able to show his title on his other toons. Sounds fair... Why would he complain ?
. For others, who spent time on many characters, they may be KaoBD 1, or 2, adding all points on all characters. They would be happy.

Everyone would enjoy this. Oh well, some disagree... They say that cant take place in a RPG. By the way, lets remember them that GW isnt a RPG: theres _absolutly_ nothing different between a warrior and another. They have the same 200 skill points to spend. In a RPG you cant decide "Oh no, now Im ranger as secondary prof, now i forget all my previous mesmer skills to be x".

We are, all, players. We all want to be recognized for our accomplishements. No differences if you did that on a character or 12.

For new players, they would still have to do the grind the first time to proceed. For people who have been through before, where is the harm in letting them through ?

Actually, why is halting people based on their Sunspear rank a good thing ?

To quote directly from the back of my Prophesies box:
Except that the PvE-only skills are dependant on hours played. So when the advertising becomes a lie, why shouldn't we get annoyed ?

And for the people against this, how many characters are you running ?

To really highlight why I'm asking this, look through this thread at all the posts freekedoutfish has made against this suggestion. Note how strong his opposition was. Then look at his post here.

Couple things.

First, I /sign this and will discuss why later on.

Second, is anyone keeping track of the overall /sign and /notsign votes in this one? This sticky-of-the-week idea is a nice one. Wouldn't it be even more useful to the devs if there was a running tally on it? Could a mod attach a poll?


Alright, as to why I /sign this ...

I suggested making treasure hunter account based when lockpicks were first introduced. I'm not a role-player. I don't become the particular character I'm playing at the moment. Anything any of my characters has done in GW was done by me, always me. Having titles that give benefits tied to "a character I play" rather than "any character I play" irritates me.

Personally, I don't care about the vanity aspects of titles or fancy monument halls. If it's important to you and it makes you happy, whee, go for it! But displaying a max title is a lot like wearing elite armor - the majority of other players won't even notice. I don't look at other people's titles and I wouldn't care if a Level 1 character had a max title on. It doesn't affect me.

The chest title benefits are the ones that irritate me most. I almost never use the PvE-only skills, so these character-based benefits don't bother me as much. But I'd still say that any title track that can give a boost (defensive, offensive, or economic) should be account-based. It makes no sense that the Kurzick/Luxon PvE-only skills would benefit from the player's work on the whole account, while the NF and GWEN PvE-only skills benefit from work done on one specific character.

I have no problem with titles (and any benefit they offer) requiring a lot of work on the part of the player. I don't want the same chances to keep a lockpick as someone that's worked to max the title. But I do want the chests I opened to count, regardless of which character I used to open the chest. It's not as annoying, but it irritates me when friends get together to do something in NF and we have to worry about bringing characters with the highest LB ranks rather than simply bringing the professions that build the best team.

I don't see how making the SS/LB and GWEN rep titles account-based would break the storyline if you didn't want it to break the storyline. Your heroes get the defensive benefits of your whole title, not just the points you earned with that specific hero on the team. Isn't the whole GW1-GWEN-GW2 storyline link with the hall already about new characters inheriting traits of old characters? You could even make a gold sink out of it. Say, when a PvE character gets to level 20, it can buy access to the account's benefit titles.

Perhaps make a new set of factions in the account/faction area. Let the displayable wisdom, ss/lb, gwen rep titles stay as they are, character-based, but make some new "factions" that are account based and control the lockpick retention, salvage chance, and PvE-only skill boosts.

• Curiosity - start with sum of opened chests from all characters on the account, add one point per opened chest on any character.
• Demonic Harassment - total of all characters' LB points
• Annoyance of Asura - total of all characters' Asuran rep
• etc.

If you counted the points already existing on the account when this was implemented, it's a win/win situation. Single-character work still gets the title display and the benefit on that single character. Multi-character work gets account-wide benefit but no fancy title to show off.

As for the GWEN armorers being snotty at first, I wouldn't really care if they remained based on single character accomplishment or switched to consider the new account faction. GWEN armor, like titles, is a cosmetic concern.

Cheers,
Luny

Hmmm interesting anet wont change it though not after so long but meh

/signed