Ursan....Thoughts?

If people dont use it, or never use it, why do they whine about it?

Point is, if you're are doing guardians and vanquishing, and you only get 1 or 2 more people - if you're lucky - in the party, Ursan becomes a good tool. If you run only with H/H, it is a necessary tool.

And people shouldn't be be loose throwing words around like "stupid". Im so tired of people projecting the image everyone is a noob and stupid except them.

Actually, if you dont use it or never use it, and you are whining from something you never have experience with, it just shows people are riding the whining bandwagon. I find it funny that people who have stopped playing guildwars still have opinions about guildwars. Move on, please.

My take.

Keeping that in mind - you'd imagine that mesmers and assassins are the new PvE meta!
I wonder how many of the Ursan-haters stand in DoA shouting at the people who want to join their parties "OMG111!!! You're not a mesmer!1 GTFO!1!!".

Adding support to the nerf Ursan brigade!

The skill is killing what economy the game had left, much like another bear-related object, but I won't get into that for everyone else's sake. Everyone's getting stuff and they don't have to work for it. I don't mind a shortcut, but this is way too much and it's imbalancing the game.

From a business standpoint, I can put it this way too.

More people using UB = more people finishing the game faster = more people getting bored with the game = more people leaving the game because of boredom = less people interested in Guild Wars = less people buying Guild Wars 2.

That help, ANet? You are going to be needing the money. Nerfing this skill only benefits you.

Also, too many people saying "Ursanway", and that's annoying.

Huh?

Anyway, sweet irony is that mesmers, well ... mesmers turn out to be THE worst class to run ursan with.

Warriors have armor, just like Paragons and Rangers do.
Sins have inbuilt emanagement, just as Dervishes and have a bit of armor.
Eles have their high energy cap, Necromances have their SR, imba as usual ...

What do mesmers have that makes ursan pugs to pick them over 10/8 wammo ursan? Nothing, except guilt from pressing reject button.

That's part of the delicious irony. The classes that were the most powerful in PvE received the biggest buff from the addition of PvE skills - which throws out the possibility that they were added to balance the classes in PvE.

You obviously have no idea what you're talkin about. Ursan is only good if you have few players in a party using it. As a lone bear you just make no difference.

99% of my pve play is me + my friend + 6 heroes. What good would 2 bears do in that party? I as a ranger can spread -10 degen on everything, daze, interupt, blind and use imba skills like pain inverter or finish him. I can adapt to different areas and specific bosses. I guarantee you that my ranger is much more effective than a single bear.

A group of 6 ursans and 2 monks is overpowered and makes everything so easy that the game makes no sense. That is why I believe this skill hurts the game. One or two bears in a party are totally balanced and are actually bad choice if you know how to play your profession.

Good point ephidel. But here's some of my thought:

When one say "killing the economy", does this mean bringing down the prices of items? Is this a bad? On the onset of every new campaign or expansion, prices get insanely high, but eventually settled down to a reasonable prices.

Item's prices going down has more benefits than drawbacks. Only players who specialized in merchantile and players who have the leet items but dont want anyone else to have them seem to find problems that prices are low. And, of course, farming bots too.

Another point, if you are player who only have 2 or 3 hours a day to play, then Ursan is a good thing.

But, of those 2 or 3 hours, so to feel good about yourself that you're not using ursan, you spent those time looking for group. At the end of 3 hours, you feel good coz you did not use ursan, though you have accomplish nothing. When you ask guildies for help, and they use ursan, one dont say anything.

At the moment, people are just riding the Ursan bandwagon - on both sides. But to make ursan nerfed to death to the point of being useless is silly.

Then people will whined about how many useless skills there are in GW.

My take.

I have never considered capping it because i like my skillbar already, and theres alot of other ways to own certain areas

Washi:

Hayz. Never speak what you have never experience. I played URSAN H/H and there is a difference. I was able to solo H/H most tyria HM mission because of URSAN. And done them without URSAN.

I never thought I could solo H/H Thunderhead Keep HM but I did, and the URSAN skill made the difference. As with other Tyrian guardian mission. Of course, if you have Ursan r5 below, I would have agreed with you a bit.

Anyway. here is a question for you: how much nerfed you want Ursan to get? You want it so no one would use it again?

you needed ursan to do thunderhead keep in HM with h/h

LOL

The thingy I was going at with my post is how everyone bitches and moans on how Ursan is insanely overpowered, how it's is trashing the game and it's giving the bad players the ability to play this game on the demanded level without actually getting better yet at the same time - a lot of these players don't have a problem running 3 SH/SF eles, 3 necros, aggro-taking-tanks - and will gladly refuse to accept anyone that gets the job done - BUT isn't as powerful as the best option.
That was my point with the assassin/mesmer-PvE-meta. Since everyone is so against running what is one of the most insane things in the game - you'd expect that everyone is running mesmers or assassins only. Since these guys sure as hell don't have the overpowered built into them in PvE!

Im not as good as you, pain.

well you dont have to be good, the trick is you just camp at the king and have a ballanced build , ursan may be usful in some HM spots but thunderhead keep it realy isn't needed.

Sab's 3 necro works great too.

I personaly always run this hero setup:

3 Mo/me

10 divine favor
16 smiting prayers
rest on inspiration

[skill]Signet of Judgment[/skill]

[skill]Bane Signet[/skill]
[skill]Reversal of Damage[/skill]
[skill]Zealot's Fire[/skill] or [skill]Smite Hex[/skill] or
[skill]Mantra of Inscriptions[/skill]

[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

When just h/h take a healer hench (and mabye a prot hench) and the rest is up to you

When i play duo with my mate we run 5 of these and 1 holy haste LoD Hero.
I know it looks dumb but it works in alot of places, especially dungeons

i think i may post this in the heroes section if anyone finds it as effective

Pain, what's the point? Almost a lot people know the trick. You done it with SAB. I done it Ursan. Someone have done it in balance. Someone H/H it with others.

But you find it condescendingly funny that I done it in ursan. I dont know why. You use one ready-made build, I use another ready-made build.

I was merely pointing washi's misconception a lone bear does not make a difference. In my experience, it does.

And, Im not exactly an Ursan die-hard fan. I enjoy playing with other real players, if I can find some. I use SAB, I use my own concoction build, I use cookie-cutter. I use what works and what is appropriate. Ursan is just one of the many options.

My real questions is, how far you want Ursan nerfed?

i said sab's is good, but i didnt use sabs i went balanced, i also take back the LOL i was in a happy mood XD

I only have used it a few times, mainly in hard mode dungeon in gwen. Forget difficulty for now but if it can make you clear a dungeon in under 2 hours rather 4-5 then I'm in. People don't always have 4 hours to burn in one sitting so at least this is provides an option.

Ooh, can I answer?

I want Ursan removed. Partially because of it's ridiculously power nature, and how easy it makes the game. But also because of how it overrides Guild Wars' concept of designing skillbars that work. It removes a great deal of the depth of the game.

I'd be willing to accept overpowered PvE skills that were actually skills on a bar (Luxon/Kurzick/Sunspear skills). They don't help the game, but at least they still fit the idea of the character skillbar - and if people want to use superskills to get them through the game easier, I'd rather see that kind of thing. They can also be used to make the game more fun in that you can use unoptimized builds in stronger areas as well - while I don't necessarily agree that this should be possible, especially in Hard Mode, it has that to be said for it.

Echos my sentiments exactly. Same for Obsidian Flesh tank users and groups

You did not say that

Don't use it at all and most guildies don't use it (anymore) except when farming the elite areas with full team.
But it might be the only way to get my mesmer easy access to the elite areas

Not to insult you, but that just proves my point, you don't know how to use your proffesion if a lonely ursan is better for you. Of course I tried it, as well as every other form, cause i like testing skills, builds etc, but I will never run it to beat something hard cause it is not effective for my style of play (1 or 2 players). It is easy to use, and powerful in a group, that's it.

What Avarre said. Remove it. Not because it's powerful but because it makes people stop making builds. To me builds are the heart of GW, you cant use all your skills like in most RPG's you have to think which to choose. Ursan removes any need for preparation and battle awarness. It's a spam fest.

You have to be kidding, right? Right?

I want it removed or nerfed into the ground.

I normally use something else in an H/H build, but for certain parties - usually HM, dungeons, etc - I have occasionally used Ursan since it makes things a bit less tedious.

Feel free to have no respect for me, by the way.

There are so many rediculously overpowered skills and group builds 1 more wont really make a dif. Take alond SABs 3 necros, a perma SY/tintf para, bha ranger, 1\2 monks and 1\2 tanks with pi and you can leeroy threw most HM areas. I just dont ursan because I find it incredibly boring to play.

Agreed.

I want Ursan removed because it adds nothing to the game, while subtracting plenty.

/Win



Also another note, make ursan usable in norn territory only? logical? do i win now? XD

Idicious, compare your examples to a 6-7 Bear team. There's no comparison. Sure, your examples might be overpowered, but it's still miles short of a big pack of bears.

My thought is many people in this thread are dangerous, wrong assumptions, low iq, no common sense when it comes to simplest things, but still trying to destroy the game for people who like this shit skill and it's not my fault. Let people use ursan if they want, I won't.

I can safely say that I will not lose sleep if this skill is nerfed or remains the same. Why do people continue to believe that personal skill results in your victory?

Using Ursan Blessing and using a PvXwiki build are as lame as eachother because you're neither putting imagination nor inspiration in to your skillbar. The only difference is that ANet have given you Ursan so you don't need to strain your hand minimizing GW and searching on wiki for a monster-steamrolling build.

I use Ursan, I use PvXwiki builds, I make my own builds, I copycat builds from other people. I also [ab]use extremely overpowered skills like Pain Inverter, Mindbender and "Finish Him!" for the sake of completing my goal.

There's no need to be arrogant and portray an image of superiority whilst condemning Ursan to the ground. Many a retard has earned Vanquisher, Protector, and Guardian titles prior to the existence of Ursan anyway.

There's the thread-winning comment.

Yes sir, you /WIN

It would be still broken, but it would be broken in much smaller area.

After all, the only other PvE elite skill is only usable against certain enemies.

My 2 cents:

I don't have Ursan, neither have the reason or urge to take it.

Don't call me lazy, it's just that I like some...oh, how was it called...yeah, challenge.

agreed, lightbringer signet is broken too but only against certain foes right? , therefore as ursan is a broken skill, it too should only be broken against certain foes? and therefore, is making the blessings only usable in norn territory logical? = win?

Original query put forth:

What we get:


WAHHHHHHHH, I don't like people playing the game that way!!

How did we know it'd come to this? Simple. It's because every thread having anything to do with Ursan, or pve skills digresses into people whining about how other people choose to play in their own instances. To all those who say things like, "Remove it because I don't like how it makes people not think about their builds" or "I don't like because I want people to play this way", GET__THE_HELL_OVER_YOURSELVES. Here's a newsflash, no one plays this game to please you!

No one (outside your guild group or core group of e-friends at the most) logs in and plays Guild Wars PvE with the intent to impress you. I don't go in my instance with whatever build I choose to use hoping that it may somehow earn me the respect of some random dude that I don't know or care about sitting somewhere behind his computer posting on Guru. People play this game (the majority of the time) to have fun. As long as they aren't breaking the ToS, mind your business. They don't need or want your respect, it's worthless. Some of the same people that are calling out other people in other threads for so called "whining" alway seem to pop up and "whine" whenever the inevitable Ursan thread pops up. It's so lame. Grow up please.

What makes it all worse is that all the subsequent whining is so off topic and mods are contributing. There was a question posed: "How do you use Ursan?" not "What's your beef with other people using Ursan and why the hell does it matter?" If you don't use it, say you don't use it or *gasp* say nothing at all and bask in admiration of your godly self for not using a PvE skill that oh so many scrubs and noobs seem to like. You see that way, the thread doesn't get cluttered with off topic nonsense and you get to keep on pretending that you're the cat that got the cream and now can't stop licking himself.

Now, in an effort to get this mess back on topic:



I don't.

Maybe I'm paranoid but IMHO ursan has a potential to deal great damage to GW playerbase. People jump into Ursan bandwagon, get used to press 3 buttons, beat most of the game that way and... get insanely bored cause of the way ursan-way is played. Now most of them won't start playing normal builds cause they are harder to play, less effective, require you to make effort. So what do they do? Leave. And I'm pretty sure most of the players are casual and think this way. I just hope I'm wrong.

and stay down you stupid horse!

I thought it was a bear...?

New saying: "Beating dead ursan"?

My warrior hench usually rushes out like a maniac, and thus I usually have to change my Mesmer into a warrior-like being for tanking purposes. Personally, I would use a shield to increase my defence; hence, my armor level is nearly as high as an average warrior. Secondly, I would use long lasting skills such as drunken master and asura summon skills as they do help a bit while you are in Ursan. Lastly, I would stick a few healing paragon skills to help out the party when I'm not in Ursan. Of course, I don't use Ursan all the time; I only use it when I'm facing serious threats.

As for the so-called Ursanway, I only join one when the normal method is too time-consuming or risky, for example, Vloxen Excavations on Hard Mode.

When Guild Wars was first released, there were two sides to the game: PvE and PvP. Of course, initially we all thought the so-called skills over time apply to both sides. However, throughout time, PvE was getting repetitive, and thus titles were added. People finish titles, and thus Hard Mode was added. Sadly, as many believed, Hard Mode was meant for challenges, although we should understand that Anet first released Hard Mode to make the players continue playing, so that they will purchase future releases. In that case, Hard Mode did not meet with Anet's expectations. Consequently, PvE-only skills are released to attract the mass population into playing Hard Mode. In this case, PvE-only skills became a threat to certain people's pride. Now the question is, will Anet really care about the minority who complains to drag the general population out of Hard Mode, which this minority believes that people without any skills, in their opinion, do not deserve to accomplish their entitlements, or will Anet really just want to satisfy the demands of the general population, so that the sale of Guild Wars 2 can be ensured a good profit?

There are people who are suffering from a case called the alternative-life complex, in which they are in an unbalanced life complex between real life and virtual life. In order to maintain this complex, a pride factor or the superiority one feels will be established. And so, competition is often used to strengthen this factor. In this case, we can see that Ursan has become a threat to their pride factor, which ultimately leads to the destruction of their alternative-life complex as they are becoming aware of that other people are being equal in comparison to them. The question remains, are they truly superior or have them always been equal, and most importantly, are they the ones who are really inferior?

Logically, if we assume that all the Ursan users are bad players who can't even beat the game as many people have assumed here. We can ask ourselves, what is the possibility that these players will continue to try again and again just to beat a mission or a dungeon, knowing that there are other games available, and in some cases, these players may be more skillful or joyful when comes to another game? The possibility is fairly low, and in other words, they leave the game without even trying it.

Now we would consider the existence of Ursan. If we assume that all the Ursan users are capable of completing missions or dungeons with Ursan, what is the possibility that these people will leave after they finish everything? The possibility is fairly medium, but at least they tried the game.

Next we look at the people who do not have the time to contribute to the game as many other hardcore players. We should consider that most of them will not have the time to play more difficult or time-consuming areas. Thus, what is the possibility that they will leave as soon as they complete everything that's neither difficult nor time-consuming (which is not much)? The possibility is rather high, and these high-end areas would have been a waste.

My point is, a game will wore itself out sooner or later, especially without further updates. In simple words, we will all quit Guild Wars sooner or later. If there are players who do not enjoy Guild Wars, we cannot tie them to a chair with ropes and force them to play. We should also note that everyone has their way to enjoy a game. Ultimately, Ursan is more or less a new option for people to try out the game without feeling the need to leave, and in many cases, some people quit without even beating a campaign. This brings me a question, does Ursan really destroys the game, or is it really a simple remedy to last Guild Wars a little longer?

- What part of "choose whatever skill you want" do you not understand?

You're the same people who are condemning racial and sexual minorities just because you don't quite like them. I.e. you're fascists. You think that your opinions are worth more and you're better people than rest of us. For the majority of us, ethics are something related to living in a community. For you, you think qualities and actions even when they have nothing to do with other people can be wrong.

Here's a puzzle for you: can a man do wrong when he's alone on deserted island without means to contact other people? Think hard now.

- He can commit heresy
- He can use drugs
- He can pirate software
- He can commit suicide
- He can have thoughts about murder and crimes, plan them
- etc.

But again can any of these be crimes when there's no one but himself that they are affecting?

This is exactly analogous situation to people using some Ursan skill on their own closed instance where they can never step on rights of other people. "He does that ugly thing", "he doesn't live up to my expectations", "I think he should be creative and use other builds". Simply put, you have no right to demand things like that.

That was one of the most exaggerated and saddest straw man arguments I've ever seen.

wow do you ppl need help with your stirrups?
getting down off of your high horse must be difficult by yourselves.