[Dev Update] Exploits and Bans – 10 January 2008 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 01:48 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by pochoWICKED

Hey!
we didn't hack or use 3rd party programs.
when u beat mallyx , somebody would go back to the guild hall and they could zone back into the town by pressing "LEAVE GUILD HALL".
They could take a party with them if they beat the 4 places in doa.

Simple fact is, you knew it had to be some sort of bug, yet I bet you went back again..am I right?

Going there once can be classed as an accident, going back again is a bltant attempt to exploit a bug.

Pro-Monk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 01:49 - 82

I have often been flamed in these forums for bringing up the FACT that this game is full of exploiters, hackers, etc. and now here's some evidence of such activity. Not only that, many of the supposedly leet (lmao) players that come on these forums and say how simple it is to beat the game, make money, etc are shown to be what they actually are - cheaters.

All I can say is - ENJOY YOUR BAN 8^)

freaky naughty

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/N

11 Jan 2008 at 01:49 - 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by pochoWICKED

I Just want Anet to know that no one was "hacking" Or Using"3rd party programs".
It was a glitch that Anet never fixed.
Say what you want now, but i'd say 80% of people would have done this glitch if they knew about it.

If people knew about it they'd have realized there was something fishy about it, besides arguing that other people would do it doesn't defend your case at all.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 01:50 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by pochoWICKED

Hey!
we didn't hack or use 3rd party programs.
when u beat mallyx , somebody would go back to the guild hall and they could zone back into the town by pressing "LEAVE GUILD HALL".
They could take a party with them if they beat the 4 places in doa.

The area was originally accessed by a third party program.

You left guild hall into an outpost that nobody has ever been to. You were able to kill mallyx without completing the 4 quest. You were able to kill mallyx again and again and again. I'm sorry, I do not believe you thought this was supposed to happen.

Quote:

I Just want Anet to know that no one was "hacking" Or Using"3rd party programs".
It was a glitch that Anet never fixed.
Say what you want now, but i'd say 80% of people would have done this glitch if they knew about it.

Anyone who know anything about the EULA would have not done this. Many people knew about duping, many people knew how to do it. Did they all do it? No, they were smart and knew they would get banned. You should have been smart and stayed away from this exploit.

stefke86

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 01:50 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaky naughty

There's a difference between getting run to consulate docks so you can get your 1337 1.5k armor, and skipping all the work for the hardest area ever invented in GW. Anet should take none of the blame.

Did the Duncan runners and teams get banned for skipping their 4 generals?

Obviously the runners there found out about an exploit and people greedingly abused it.

Now this happens, a few people find out about the outpost, they offer runs to mallyx where you can skip the 4 generals (sounds familiar with Duncan, no?)

Do the groups running along with the runners need to be punished because the Runner hacked Anet?? How in gods name do the guys that take the run have to know that hacking is involved when a few months earlier the same thing happened with a similar boss and quest build, where no one was banned??

Sure Anet should ban those hwo hacked, the runners, but the people in the groups that joined just for profit? Come on, did no one of you guys who say 'you guys deserve it' take a Duncan run? ....

Meh, i think its unfair still, and Anet should thouroughly look into this. More than they have now anyway.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

11 Jan 2008 at 01:50 - 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

I have to admit that I'm a bit itchy on the part about Gaile saying that people hacked the client. I'm pretty sure this is virtually impossible to do..

Everythings hackable
Except Bruce Lee's Computer
Because its in hiding!

I think they didn't server side something or whatever like they usually do and thats how those people got their ass in.

Mickey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Eternal Insight

D/

11 Jan 2008 at 01:51 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keekles

The fact that you were in someplace strange that was outside of the normal line of progression for the quest should hint to you that something is not right.

You made your own bed, now lie in it. If you were taken there, then use "Leave Guild Hall" to take other people there, then you are still exploiting a hack. Only that you are not the one with the actual 3rd party program.

Look, I didn't know the normal line of progression, that was my first time doing Mallyx. Period. I know I can't prove my innocence, I'm just saying.

Keekles

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Floating amongst the ethereal seas of placating breezes.

Like A [Boss]

Mo/

11 Jan 2008 at 01:53 - 88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Look, I didn't know the normal line of progression, that was my first time doing Mallyx. Period. I know I can't prove my innocence, I'm just saying.

I wasn't targeting you with that statement, since (to me at least) you really had no idea. But to some of the other people who seemed to have a clue... that's who I'm targetting.

Shakti

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2006

Home...

Vier Reiter [Vier]

11 Jan 2008 at 01:53 - 89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

They are banning people for something that they left open.

The hidden outpost was still open when they were done testing. If they were actually using the right-mind, they should have closed it and/or deleted it.

In my humble opinion, every game will have people that find an exploit and feed off of it for personal benefit. This is no different than people ferrying, but they don't get banned.
ANet bans the few people that used this outpost, but still let the ferriers thrive, when it has been going on for months now.

As I said before, every game will have those that exploit and hack. It is unstoppable.

With all do respect, you might not agree with me, but I say it is ANet's fault 100%, not the people that just happened to find this.

It is the user's fault they hacked the client violating the EULA. Say whatever you want about whether anet should've closed the outposts, EULA states clearly YOU CAN'T HACK THE CLIENT. Who doesn't know this? Exploits and hacks are bad mmmmmkay?

Honestly Anet's responsibility in closing or not closing the outpost is irrelevant. That is their choice and they have reasons neither you nor I are privy to. These players knew they were violating the EULA they agreed to when they did this. That means ban, I say TY Anet.

freaky naughty

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/N

11 Jan 2008 at 01:54 - 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefke86

Did the Duncan runners and teams get banned for skipping their 4 generals?

Obviously the runners there found out about an exploit and people greedingly abused it.

Now this happens, a few people find out about the outpost, they offer runs to mallyx where you can skip the 4 generals (sounds familiar with Duncan, no?)

Do the groups running along with the runners need to be punished because the Runner hacked Anet?? How in gods name do the guys that take the run have to know that hacking is involved when a few months earlier the same thing happened with a similar boss and quest build, where no one was banned??

Sure Anet should ban those hwo hacked, the runners, but the people in the groups that joined just for profit? Come on, did no one of you guys who say 'you guys deserve it' take a Duncan run? ....

Meh, i think its unfair still, and Anet should thouroughly look into this. More than they have now anyway.

I'm not familiar with the Duncan run but by your description, which is that it is a hack. I've never gotten a Duncan run and I don't plan to do any run, except for shards of orr hm because that's impossible. On topic though if the Duncan run was a hack then the runners should be banned. If it was a clever way of getting past them then no, no one should be banned.

-Sonata-

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Pretty Hate Machines [NIN]

Me/

11 Jan 2008 at 01:57 - 91

Quote:

Originally Posted by pochoWICKED

Hey!
we didn't hack or use 3rd party programs.
when u beat mallyx , somebody would go back to the guild hall and they could zone back into the town by pressing "LEAVE GUILD HALL".
They could take a party with them if they beat the 4 places in doa.

With all do respect, and if what you say here is true, then you had to have known something was out of the ordinary. If that's the case you had two choices.

1) You value your account enough to not put it at risk because of a possible hack, exploit, cheat. This means you leave that party at the first sign something is "not what it seems" and you stay away until all future signs point to "Things are now normal".

2) You continue your actions, knowing that something is "up", for whatever reasons, or excuses, you wish to share. If so, due to your continued action, the risk of punishment increases and not to the shock of many here you got hit with the ban stick and rightfully so.

And no, 80% of the people who knew about this probably wouldn't have exploited it. Just because it's "there" doesn't mean it's supposed to be taken advantage of. I can take my Mustang up to 130mph if I wanted too. The engine is there. Doesn't mean I'm allowed to do it, or should do it. It's against the law. The person who doesn't "think" would reply with "Well, if it's against the law, why make the engine that powerful??".

I hate to sound rude on this, but being oblivious to the obvious isn't good enough.

Rexion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

[Luck]

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 01:57 - 92

oh well... ANet has caused another contraversy... ending in me losing more respect for them. 1 less player you have received related to a contraversy...

All Statements made:

-related to ferrying
-related to Duncan Runs
-the 117 deserved it
-it was left there to be hacked
-against EULA
-blah blah blah...

Rexion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

[Luck]

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:00 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

I can take my Mustang up to 130mph if I wanted too. The engine is there. Doesn't mean I'm allowed to do it, or should do it. It's against the law. The person who doesn't "think" would reply with "Well, if it's against the law, why make the engine that powerful??".

But it is also the Gov's fault for not posting a speed limit sign on the road you are driving on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oofus

There is a HUGE difference between the owner of a house opening his/her front door with their key and a crook picking the lock to gain illegal entry.

there is a huge difference between an owner leaving the door open while the people paying rent happen to walk into his apartment to talk to him while his wife is in the next room thinking it is a robber.

freaky naughty

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/N

11 Jan 2008 at 02:01 - 94

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

But it is also the Gov's fault for not posting a speed limit sign on the road you are driving on.

Hmmm so I believe this means you're suggesting it's Anets fault for not warning us against HACKING to gain entrance to an outpost that to us was supposed to be non-existant? Because, if that's what you're saying your argument just lost credibility.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

11 Jan 2008 at 02:02 - 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

But it is also the Gov's fault for not posting a speed limit sign on the road you are driving on.

Given the fact that I rarely see a speed limit sign over 60mph, it's nothing more than common sense that you shouldn't be going that fast.

Nonetheless, people weren't banned because they were going to an outpost. They were banned because the only way to that outpost was the use of third-party programs i.e hacking. The other people banned were those with a lack of common sense.

As for those "mostly innocent" exceptions I've mentioned, and that Arkantos emphasized on, they're the only ones that I hope didn't get banned.

Either way, the outpost was pretty good hacker bait.

I Is Special

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

NJ

To Gain Extra Mobility We Play [NUDE]

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:04 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

oh well... ANet has caused another contraversy... ending in me losing more respect for them. 1 less player you have received related to a contraversy...

All Statements made:

-related to ferrying
-related to Duncan Runs
-the 117 deserved it
-it was left there to be hacked
-against EULA
-blah blah blah...

I dont see where you're coming from.
People _hacked_ and exploited the game to get rich and fvck everything up. How do you not see this as being a bannable offense?

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:04 - 97

The people who used this exploit had to know what it was... why would you believe that its ok to skip the whole quest and kill Mallyx over and over? It seems they got owned by their own greediness.

The Mountain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Realm of the GWAMMs

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:05 - 98

For the non-hackers who abused this exploit, the situation is exactly the same as the Duncan running situation (assuming a lack of knowledge about hacking); treatment should be the same, methinks.

I think it's quite likely there are several entirely innocent people. The first time I beat Mallyx, I got all excited and asked my group if they wanted to go again. They proceeded to laugh at me for not knowing that I had to repeat all four areas. Either way, it seems banned accounts don't stay banned too long...what's the c/o on those mini polar bears? last I heard, 1501 braces...yea, that was legitimately farmed.

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

11 Jan 2008 at 02:05 - 99

Thank you Inde for opening up the discussion. Even if it is a tough topic by creating one thread you can at least control the damage to the Forums.

on to topic...

I don't get people who seem to think that just because you used an exploit you should reap no repercussions from it. Of course you got banned and for good reason.

Don't return to GW2 kthxbye

The EULA is common sense you don't need to be a lawyer to prevent yourself form getting banned. Just ask yourself, am I gaining an advantage or doing something by doing things no one else is "NORMALLY" able to do. Like show up at an invisible outpost and kill Mallyx without taking the quest then rinse repeating it. If the answer is yes then "STOP" doing it or you'll most likely getting a ban.

How hard is it?

Seriously?

Personally I'm skeptical of anyone with a Torment weapon these days.

Glad I sold my GEM's a long time ago too.

Rexion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

[Luck]

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:05 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Given the fact that I rarely see a speed limit sign over 60mph, it's nothing more than common sense that you shouldn't be going that fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

He said he could drive that fast if he wanted to. He said nothing about a speed limit sign. That's quite irrelevant.

though my statement was a good comparison to what was going on...

"It could be illegal, but there is nothing saying that it is... might as well do it"
Most of the 117 people didn't know what was going on was against EULA. so they did it anyways.

-Sonata-

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Pretty Hate Machines [NIN]

Me/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:07 - 101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

But it is also the Gov's fault for not posting a speed limit sign on the road you are driving on.

Better read up on your County, State, and Federal Driving manuals about unposted road limits in rural, urban, and city sectors. They have those manuals for a reason and why, at least where I live, you're tested on them in the written exam.

This is exactly the reasoning as to why I said Being oblivious to the obvious isn't good enough.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

11 Jan 2008 at 02:07 - 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molock

The people who used this exploit had to know what it was... why would you believe that its ok to skip the whole quest and kill Mallyx over and over? It seems they got owned by their own greediness.

You could skip a whole lot by getting a Drok's run, so that shouldn't be the obvious red flag here. It's the outpost you're in that no one's ever heard of that should be blaring the huge warning sign.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:07 - 103

Quote:

For the non-hackers who abused this exploit, the situation is exactly the same as the Duncan running situation (assuming a lack of knowledge about hacking); treatment should be the same, methinks.

Everyone knew Duncan's door was in game, it was supposed to be in game. Nobody had to hack the client to access it. However this situation is different. This outpost was not supposed to be in the game and somebody had to hack the client to originally access it. For all we knew, Duncan's dungeon was supposed to be that way. DoA has been in the game for over a year, people knew you had to complete the first four areas to fight Mallyx. That's why this situation is different.

lishi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 02:08 - 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

But it is also the Gov's fault for not posting a speed limit sign on the road you are driving on.

there is a huge difference between an owner leaving the door open while the people paying rent happen to walk into his apartment to talk to him while his wife is in the next room thinking it is a robber.

im pretty sure the concept of "do not hack the game, do not exploit bug or you might get banned" are pretty clear to even people who didnt read the eula

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

11 Jan 2008 at 02:08 - 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

"It could be illegal, but there is nothing saying that it is... might as well do it"
Most of the 117 people didn't know what was going on was against EULA. so they did it anyways.

In the speed limit example, there was no sign saying what the speed limit was, so that's a little excusable. But there *is* a sign for Guild Wars, and that's the EULA.

So saying "I didn't know what the speed limit was because I wasn't paying attention to the sign" is not a good defense.

Commander Ryker

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jun 2005

R/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:10 - 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

How many of you guys completely read the EULA before playing Guild Wars?

I don't have to read it to know that hacking the client is a big no no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

oh well... ANet has caused another contraversy... ending in me losing more respect for them. 1 less player you have received related to a contraversy...

LMAO.....how do you figure? The hackers caused the controversy and as far as respect goes........you already lost it. I really doubt that anet is worried about you losing respect for them. Not one less player, one less hacker.

Pro-Monk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 02:10 - 107

This has nothing to do with greed and everything to do with being cheaters. Much has been written how generations of Americans have grown up believing that it's ok to cheat. That's how they've made it through schools, colleges, careers,.....life.

These people will argue their point endlessly because they actually don't think they have done anything wrong. It's just the sad state of affairs.

Rexion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

[Luck]

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:10 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

This outpost was not supposed to be in the game

making my statement correct.
ANet left the outpost there. They probably had an idea something could happen related to it, and it did. Thus, being their fault in the first place because they didn't get rid of it.

Venus Anu

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

11 Jan 2008 at 02:11 - 109

This a shame, all of this.
You all are saying mean things about the people banned, but I bet some of you opened that chest on the isle of the nameless, or were disappointed that you didn't know in time. Or you used that taxi-to-any-outpost glitch, or were also sorry you missed out on that one too.
I do know a few of these people who were banned, they are not hackers, they did not hack anything, perhaps the person who originally accessed the mission was a hacker but these people didn't use any 3rd party program.

You can easily cast your stones at them because it didn't happen to you.
They were farming a boss, how many of us farm a boss?

There are bots all over noob island, they are clearly bots, it's pathetic. there are hundreds if not thousands of them. 100 ppl farm a boss through a taxi and they are banned? But that's only 100 people and they already paid for their accounts. These bots that are not getting banned will probably make more bots so thats moremoney in arena nets pocket.

I understand the severity of a hack on Anet. So ban the hacker, My friends are not hackers would even think of attempting something like that.

It's a shame and it's causing a comotion here and you can't imagine the impact it has on us.

I really hope they reconsider this ban. I mean it may really effect how many in our alliance go on to GW2.

MsMassacre

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 02:11 - 110

Okay, all very interesting. I kinda figured it would only be a matter of time before this sort of testing tool was found and exploited in one of the major MMOs.

...but am I the only one who reads and thinks, man, now I wanna see what those secret outposts look like!

TempusReborn

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

R/Mo

11 Jan 2008 at 02:12 - 111

I Wonder.....This signpost analogy the silly monk is trying to keep up. It says in the EULA that your not allowed to exploit bugs. But you seem to be saying because there was no signpost saying this thing was explicitly wrong its not your fault.

I Wonder when Anet would put up a signpost saying an specific exploit is wrong and not remove it....

Tempus Reborn

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

11 Jan 2008 at 02:12 - 112

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

making my statement correct.
ANet left the outpost there. They probably had an idea something could happen related to it, and it did. Thus, being their fault in the first place because they didn't get rid of it.

So if a cop left his donuts unattended and I stole them, it's the cop's fault?

Nonetheless, you're missing the point still: They weren't banned for going to the outpost, they were banned for hacking into the outpost. That was the only way to get into it, via a hack.

As to this,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

you didn't read my post very well. I said "the ones of the 117 that didn't know what was going on".

See post 133.

1 up and 2 down

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

Rt/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:13 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

though my statement was a good comparison to what was going on...

"It could be illegal, but there is nothing saying that it is... might as well do it"
Most of the 117 people didn't know what was going on was against EULA. so they did it anyways.

Hmm, don't you think it's weird that a brand new outpost is introduced that lets you go straight to Mallyx? Anyone with common sense would know that it has to be fishy and shouldn't be exploited.

The Mountain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Realm of the GWAMMs

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:13 - 114

arkantos, I know many people who have still not done DoA...how would those people know this was out of the ordinary?

Even if they knew it was unusual, the situation would then be similar to the recent ferrying issues; thus, punishment should be similar. I'm not saying that these individuals deserve a ban or simply a warning...just that anet should be consistent.

Keekles

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Floating amongst the ethereal seas of placating breezes.

Like A [Boss]

Mo/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:13 - 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

making my statement correct.
ANet left the outpost there. They probably had an idea something could happen related to it, and it did. Thus, being their fault in the first place because they didn't get rid of it.

Not entirely. The outpost was not meant to exist for the everyday player. Since there is no way to access it without having been taken there by another person who already had access to it. The only way to originally access it is via a specialized account (I'm assuming here that developers and GMs will have had the ability to access this outpost without the use of anything else), or via a hack.

The fact that you were accessing some "unlisted" outpost should have been a "Hey! You might be exploiting the game!" sign.

Also, the lack of your common sense does not make it alright to break rules.

Cargan

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

Scotland

[ESP]

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:14 - 116

Good to see they actually did something about it and handed out a few bans. Hopefully this will be a lesson to others. Don't try using exploits. Sure, sometimes you will get away with it, but a ban is never far away.

With regards to Anet looking further into it before handing out the bans, I think they did the right things banning people promptly. Yes, even those who did it somewhat unwittingly. Those who are innocent will plead their case and they will look into it further. If they are found to be "innocent" then they will get their account back and will have learned a valuable lesson. Those who know they are guilty will not waste their time pleading their case. Lets be honest, about 80% of those people would have known they were using an exploit. I'm sure only taking more time to look further into the cases of those who send in a valid ticket would take less time than looking further into all of them and making a judgement call on every one.

I don't think people who did it only once should be banned. How is one to know something is wrong if they've never seen/done it before? To be honest, I would have done it too, once, to see what it is all about. I'm human, I'm curious. If someone says "don't look", you instinctively look. it's just what people do.

Shakti

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2006

Home...

Vier Reiter [Vier]

11 Jan 2008 at 02:15 - 117

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

This is exactly the reasoning as to why I said Being oblivious to the obvious isn't good enough.

Well said.

While I agree that those who were unwittingly taken there and left should not be banned, I do think those who stayed had culpability here. I know if I was suddenly in an outpost that didn't "exist" to do something that should not be possible, my inner voice would have something to say....probably preceded by hitting me over the head with a heavy large object

Dwimmerlaik

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

LLJK

A/R

11 Jan 2008 at 02:16 - 118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

you didn't read my post very well. I said "the ones of the 117 that didn't know what was going on".

So what're you trying to insinuate is that whoever "unwittingly" went along on these would've had zero inkling that what they were doing was wrong? A real "oh hay that dungeon clear went fast this time" kind of moment? I'm sorry, but no. ANet would clearly be able to differentiate if someone was dragged along and had no clue, but going through with the kill of Mallyx and subsequent looting would make them as guilty as anyone else - else, they'd map out of there.

Commending ANet for this - keep up the good work.

Darkobra

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot

E/Me

11 Jan 2008 at 02:16 - 119

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

But it is also the Gov's fault for not posting a speed limit sign on the road you are driving on.

Don't know where you live, but there are regular speed signs on every road here.

Also, to plant the boot square in your logic, you get taught the speed limits at your driving test. Comparable to the EULA to playing the game. Ironic, isn't it?

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 02:16 - 120

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

making my statement correct.
ANet left the outpost there. They probably had an idea something could happen related to it, and it did. Thus, being their fault in the first place because they didn't get rid of it.

Your statement is still false. They had a secret outpost that nobody knew about in the game for testing. It was not their fault they got hacked.

If there was a key to the cell of a mass murderers cell in a locked cabinet in a locked, secured warden's office and somebody snuck around the guards, broke into the office, broke into the cabinet, stole the key that was safely locked away and freed the mass murderer, would it be the warden's fault for leaving the key in a locked cabinet in a locked, secured office with guards around the prison, or would it be the person's fault for sneaking past the guards, breaking into an office and stealing a key? Sure it's very exaggurated, but it's still relevant to what you're trying to say.

Quote:

So wait. Because it was left in to be used, it's fine? If I kill a guy I hate with his dad's gun, is it suddenly his dad's fault for leaving the gun out where I could get to it? Sure, that's exaggerating, but it's essentially what you're saying.

Read this. Although exaggerated, it's probably the best argument about your statement.

Quote:

arkantos, I know many people who have still not done DoA...how would those people know this was out of the ordinary?

Even if they knew it was unusual, the situation would then be similar to the recent ferrying issues; thus, punishment should be similar. I'm not saying that these individuals deserve a ban or simply a warning...just that anet should be consistent.

If the person has never been to DoA, I don't think they'd think that it's alright to skip the whole are and go straight to the final boss. You don't need to know the area to have a little common sense. Jumping straight to the final boss does not make sense, and if they were ferried to the outpost to fight the final boss they should have been curious. If they were curious and asked a friend/looked on wiki they would have found out. If they left in the outpost, they should not have been banned. If they did not know this was the final boss and killed him, well, they really should have looked up on the area before going to it. Although it may sound cruel, they were ignorant of the situation.