[Dev Update] Exploits and Bans – 10 January 2008

I still dont see what the problem is - 4 accounts owned by someone who broke the EULA by running spl0itz got banned. . .this is a GOOD thing.

why? beause 4 less accounts running spl0itz in GW = GOOD.

It is good because it protects the integrity of the game, and it removes 'undesireable' (aka people who break EULA by running spl0itz which allows them to accumulate phat l00t faster than people who play fair and dont cheat) people from the playing population.

Refund money for a banned account? No. Someone breaks the rules then demands a refund? Thats laughable at best.

The notion that stripping ones character of all goods will pay back what was done isn't taking into effect any trading or passing off of the goods that might have been already accomplished. Especially if there are alt accounts held by that person.

my friend got banned for someone hacking his account and exploiting on it.
suck it up, at least these 117 actually did the thing they got banned for

here's how it should be:
if you went to the outpost, no matter how many times, but didnt kill mallyx, no ban
but if you did go to the outpost and you did go kill mallyx, you should be banned because you abused an ingame exploit.

@above, literally*

I HAVE been in your position. TWICE. I got my account false banned twice for botting. So what did I do? I sent in reports and stated some facts and pointed out a few things for them to look at that proved that I wasnt botting. And I got my account back both times with them saying that they made a mistake.

I NEVER went and placed the blame on others. I didnt make excuses. I didnt try to twist words. I didnt use the "Well someone else did this and didnt get banned" excuse. I didnt lie. I was truly innocent so all I needed to do was provide facts. I didnt do any of the BS you and the accused are doing.

I HAVE been in your shoes. But seeing all the posts you and others have provided doesnt convince me much that you're innocent. Just a bunch of guilties trying to weasel out of a ban.

again I dont "run spolits" I assume you mean exploit, I dont and I didnt.

Exploit (computer security)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Exploit.

An exploit (from the same word in the French language, meaning "achievement", or "accomplishment") is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that take advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerized). This frequently includes such things as gaining control of a computer system or allowing privilege escalation or a denial of service attack.




Exploit (online gaming)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers.

What is or is not considered an exploit varies between games and developers. The EULA (End-User License Agreement) typically states what type of gameplay is not acceptable. Thus, some developers may consider AFK gameplay to be an exploit, while others may not.



By either term I didnt do it.. Theres 3 other defs. there but either way, EITHER guild wars is calling us all hackers, which we are not, or they are saying we made personal gains, which some/alot who were banned didnt.

Again, EULAS.. did you read it before you bought it? Doesnt matter. if you wasted your money, your screwed because of hte EULA,



When my company debates pay raises, etc, they look to the biggest company in the same feild, and try to come close to what they did.

Its logic, so you dont loose all your workers to that othe rcompany.

Here its logic, so you dont loose all your consumers, to the other games.

PURITAN

The concept of the EULA is not broken, they exist on almost every level of software available today. For the record, WOW's EULA is comparable (almost identical) to GW's EULA in every respect.

Stay on topic.

I haven't seen the WoW EULA but I suspected it would be very similar to GW's. An EULA is legally binding contract which protects the company on so many levels that they are immune to almost any legal threats. The GW EULA is paragraphs upon paragraphs of exclusion clauses and general protective, preventative measures to avoid the costs of legal disputes and retain the organisation's reputation.

Objectively, the 117 crew were wrong and know that they have no means of legally reclaiming access to their accounts.

Subjectively, the 117 crew are playing the sympathy card as a second resort whereas much of the remainder of the community are counteracting them with their own views.

As a result we have about a 100 pages of viewpoints going back and forth with no real end in sight. It should be between NCSoft support and the affected 117.

1 armbrace= 15 gem sets= 15 runs... maybe = 45 stops in post.
Very interesting that you realize you could have afforded that armbrace Via LEGAL farming yet you chose to go the illegal route.

not ALL your consumers by a long shot. You guys are a mere 0.00litllebit of the players, and the rest of us that play clean, follow the rules, are not going anywhere anytime soon.

It's really hard to have any sympathy for players like you.

Saying "now that I can't get on Guild Wars.. I'm going to WoW" is just plain silly. If we wanted to play WoW.. we would have done so. No.. we chose Guild Wars. It is our passion for that game that makes us persist.

We can be suppressed through the official channels. It is in this community forum we can have our voices heard. For those that like to flame us, continue.. it shows what kind of person you are. I have been civil here, even though this whole situation is extremely stressful. It is my hope therefore that this community is educated about the whole situation. It is also my hope that Anet reconsiders our tickets.. not just as some number.. but as people, and as customers.

If only A NET would listen instead of terminating accounts without talking to us. MANY MANY ACCOUNTS were banned that DID NOT exploit in any way shape or form. via wiki pedia deffinitions.

IE aparently a net has made a mistake.

My account, and other people who were mapped htere 1 time, are banned, then upon requesting a fair hearing via ticket support, didnt get one, but got an automated response, that everyone got, saying, YOUR ACOUNT HAS BEEN TERMINATED.

Then gaile gray comes ON HERE and says that all who sent in tickets would be reviewed and get to state their cases individually.

This is a lie, and should be pointed out to the GW community.

Please close this thread at 117 pages. It would be right.

4 less wont make and differance at all. just of the top of my head check out ele's in shing jea. zos shivros channel (n/mo) and Altrum ruins (mo/me) you stand in each town for 2 mins (six mins total) you will see 200+ bots and thats only 3 towns in Factions. they rack up more gold in 15 mins than the 117 people did doing mallyx. and the 117 people didnt use bots its all manual just like farming yourself

They have long ago established a reputation as a company that isn't afraid to let loose the dogs of war, ahem, legal department. They are unique in that respect, since no other gaming company is so protective of their property, or willing to show it.

They have so much experience with this, that they long ago realized that it's not viable to reason. But if anyone wants, they'll gladly see them in court. Any time, any place.

Actually, I think you just read into that WAAAY too much. Accounts get banned a lot when they are stolen and used to sell gold and such. Which is probably what he meant. I don't see any indication in that post that his friend claimed to have been hacked and that the hacker exploited this outpost.

Maybe try rereading the post. I think you'll see what I mean....

And its GREAT! you know why!
THEY CATCH AND PROSECUTE THE HACKERS.

They DO NOT however, ban people how were screwed because of a GLITCH THEY MADE in the game. they roll back, and go on.

This point, I have been making over and over, is somehow being missed.

The glitch is inguild wars, was in guild wars supposedly its fixe.d

THey KNOW ITS A GLITCH, or they WOULDNT have put a fix in.

IE they lie by saying its a hack.

Thanks
Puritan.

not to mention the fact that their investigation is an epic fail...they are judging us on how many times we where at mallyx citadel NOT the bugged area and NOT by accessing mallyx FROM the bugged area.
they say i was there 18 times...maybe 1 time from bugged area and 17 times from normal legit gameplay.
im waiting for there staff to send me my detailed report as of so far their investigation is going in the wrong direction and my guess is that they are GUESSING how many times people have exploited... all i here is even the people who pleaded guilty denying the amount of times anet has claimed they have been there..
INVESTIGATION = FAIL
epicly

The Majority of "us"(the 117) wouldn't be/have gotten this upset about A Net closing off our access to our account(s) if when we tried to log into them the message read:

Your Account has been Implicated in a recent game exploit, your account access has been blocked until we can determind your involement in this exploit. ( code: 117).

This would have given A Net the time they needed to gather their infomation before permonant banned or termination of these account(s).

Just because they fixed an error in their code doesn't mean it was a glitch they created. When something is hacked a software company also has to fix the code to prevent future hacking.

It's just as easy to believe that Anet is telling the truth and others are not.

Hmmm this is what he said....
maybe a different exploit?? still... they hacked it, I'm guessing didn't change the password, exploited on his account, stopped, when the friend went to log on his account he didn't get a Wrong Password error, he got a You have been banned for using an exploit error.

Seriously, when your account is hacked, [and I have a friend that had this problem, he put a support ticket, eventually got it back minus a whole lot of stuff] you either know it and put in a support ticket, and once they know the account had been hacked, I doubt they would also be banned for whatever illicit activities took place while hacked. If he didn't notice it had been hacked, the hacker never changed the password, to ensure the original owner could log back in when he was done exploiting.

This exploit or not, it just seems to me the excuses get more and more creative by the minute.

Thats a crock and you know it. This "fallout" always happens when someone recieves a ban. It seems to go with the territory. And judging by many of the "117's" post and responses, was inevitable regardless of 'how' any ban was implemented.

The reasoning behind many of the 117's posts is weakening as the thread progresses. Some have clearly realised its pointless to argue and defend what has been shown to be an indefensible position and have left, leaving a few very "vocal" people who clearly dont have the same capacity of understanding as those that have decided to leave gracefully.

Lies, You cant stop a hacker. If it was a hack, the hacker can and will do it again.

If it was a bug/glitch, as it was, then they fixed it and it cant happen again right? THEN WHY do i still have this town? Just curious
puritan

Not every bot/scammer/spl0iter can be banned, therefore ban none of them. . .yeah. . .this logic is fully awesome.

The fact that the people who were running these spl0itz found GW PvE too hard and were incapable of exploiting this for maximum profit, and phat l00t, should be used as a mitigating circumstance? errm. . .the fact that they ran the spl0itz and broke the EULA is enough, the fact that even doing this they were still unable to be profitable merely compounds the epic fail.

If what you say is true and you only visited the illegal place one time then I hope you get your account back as it falls under the line that Anet set. BUT I would think that since you could map into this illegal mallyx citadel then it must be a different outpost designation than the legal one so Anet should be able to see the difference.

Also most people should realize that it is a weekend and maybe starting Monday Anet will be contacting you more directly. I guess you will just have to wait and see.

As far as being able to accidentally be pulled into this scenario I can agree that it is possible. ONE time. After that it is hard to believe that someone who has played for even more than a few months not to realize that something was strange about it.

That's an interesting point.

In a sense, I suppose you're right -- compared to the vast number of armbraces that dupers traded out into the open market before they were banned (as evidenced by the huge number of armbraces so many people seem to still have these days), the number of armbraces one could get by exploiting this outpost, even for several months is just a drop in the bucket.

On the other hand, compared to the zero armbraces the average player has, 7 is an awful lot.

1. You can stop a hacker by fixing the issue. That doesn't mean a hacker cannot find his way around your new security measures next time. That is the nature of ALL security throughout history. Someone getting through your new security doesn't mean that the in the past security was not breached and then repaired.

2. Without pics and screens no one is going to believe that you "still have this town".

heres gaile grays post
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gaile...0_January_2008


An exploit was recently discovered in Guild Wars that allowed client-hackers to travel to a hidden outpost.

LIES i accessed this without hacking client, reported it as a bug glitch up to 6 months ago.

From that outpost, they could travel directly into the room containing Mallyx, the final boss in the Domain of Anguish.

THIs SOUNDS like a lie, because it makes people assume you went straight to mallyx. You still had to fight 30 very tough mobs, and mallyx himself.

This hidden outpost existed strictly for testing purposes and was never accessible through normal play

Lies again, I accessed it in very normal play, as has been admited by GAILE GRAY. Also documented by several other upstanding community memebers.

Only by hacking the client, or partying with someone who had done so, could a player access that outpost

More lies, I didnt hack, nor did I party with a hacker. .

We eliminated the exploit with a build today.

They fixed a bug allowing people to glitch into it. IE it was a glitch/bug, and was reported as such by multiple people. However, I still have this town.

We also conducted a detailed investigation into who accessed this exploit and other hidden outposts. As a result of this investigation, we permanently banned 117 players late Wednesday night, Pacific time, and we will ban more accounts as appropriate as we review additional logs gathered after the initial bans.

Lies. They didnt research my account or they would have sent more than an automated response, and they would have not banned me.

In our investigation, we took into consideration extraordinary circumstances such as players who might have been transported to the outpost unwittingly and against their will by a party leader who was hacking the game. We chose to permanently ban these 117 accounts because it was clear that the players involved had intentionally exploited a server vulnerability for their personal gain.

More lies as people who accessed the town only once were banned, selectively, as my alt wasnt, but there were people who were banned who only were there 1 time. Another thing, Unwhittingly wherent banned, but I was banned, and I truely didnt know it wasnt part of this game normally.

ArenaNet gives the highest possible priority to maintaining the security of the game and protecting the game economy. You can assist us by letting us know, via the Community mailbox, if you learn of an exploit.

So that we can ban you as soon as possible, as you no doubt used it.

Protect your own account by refusing to use exploits and declining to share information about their uses with others.

which doesnt matter, because we lie, then hide behind our eula, and you cant do shit, except loose all your time/money.

Puritan.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gaile...0_January_2008

yes you would think they know the difference wouldnt you...
i am certain 18 times is a mistake.. doing the math myself it was roughly about the number of times i have done mallyx within a week legitimately. i was at the foreign outpost roughly about 3-4 times. of this i am certain... im just trying to figure out where the other 14 times came from..
im sorry but my trust in the support team can only be described as a thin piece of thread

my second ticket to plaync support:

i already sent you a ticket about 3 days ago.i was banned from gw for alledgedly exploiting an area within the game. i cannot stress enough that to exploit must mean i have something to gain. i did not gain nothing from the exploit. your assessment was all wrong you said i was there like 18 times. you are wrong i went to mallyx ONCE from the bugged area and LEFT mid battle. on this note i did not breach EULA nor user agreement.Please conduct a thorough investigation.Also, i farm DOA on a regular basis. i do all areas within 1h30m and rinse and repeat, all legit. the one time i went to mallyx from the bugged area i was already prepared quest wise to defeat mallyx. look at drop rates or pick up rates... look for patterns which prove i did city>veil>gloom>foundry as this was thecommon run i used... i made roughly 200k+ gw gold from these runs so please dont see my ingame richness as cause for concern. im sure you have the means to rectify this and in turn return to me something which was taken away unjustly. please if you need more info i will tell you everything. i did not exploit nor gain nothing from this.thank you for your time but please conduct investigates apropriately please, you are looking in the wrong places.sorry if i sound to be raging etc its just upsetting to be told untruths about yourself.i dont mind waiting for my adjudication and totally agree with the bans providing you assess these claims in a competent manner. i have suffered no inconvenience from the ban as i understand the nature of it but please dont do me an injustice.i have no evidence myself as i was unaware that this would happen to me being that i stood by my innocence as a good enough defense, i just hope you have the means to delve into this deep enough to see the truth of it

i was raging>poor grammar lol

Gaile's response is off on several areas.

A. People accessed it without a hack, and many of the people banned today were ferried by people who accessed it without a hack, but a bug, which puts this on the same scale as Duncan, because that was also a bug, instead of a hack.
B. They banned anyone who went into the outpost, no matter how many times, they did not do a thorough investigation. I personally know 3 people that went in there once, then left, and they were banned. They were dragged in there btw.
C. This was reported 6 months ago, it should have been fixed then, instead of put off as "impossible to use."

Now, the Exploiters Fault:

Used the bug to our own advantage, and (to some extent) the advantage of others. Skipped a potentially (with ursan it's meh at best) extremely difficult area, and managed to farm around 18 k + 1 green every 16 mins or so. Made the inaccurate assumption (or so I think) that "hey, Duncan was the same, no one will get banned." Probably should have pulled our heads out of our asses and thought about it for maybe even one second.

We are guilty, that is true, but the same guilt should not only be laid down on us, but also Anet, for not fixing this when they had the chance.

Puritan, You know me and I know you.

But I know for a fact you knew what was going on, you are not that stupid to be unaware of what was going on. Sad to see you go bro, but I know how wealthy you and the rest of our old Guild/Alliance got.

Directly into the room is COMPLETELY untrue. Which questions the very foundations of the investigation Anet filed.

You still needed to fight the 16 mobs at the beginning, you needed to defend Zhellix, and then you could kill Mallyx. It was the end of the quest, all over again. Unless that is what you meant, in which case, my mistake.

Edit: Oh, area, my bad.

Just to clarify, it still took the normal 18 minutes to kill mobs + mallyx for this, if anyone was wondering.

That's what everyone means. You honestly expect people to type all that when they can just type "the room with MallyX in it" and get the gist of it across?

regardless its still skipping 2 hours work (with pug team) defeating all the other areas and in return exploiting the whole mallyx quest.

Yes, what I mean is I'm sure they used room as in area. The room/area contains mobs, and you fight Mallyx at the end. I am sure they didn't think you just went in and fought Mallyx. The exploit just skipped all the 4 areas prior to being able to go in to kill Mallyx and his mobs.

This is nothing short of crazy, you got caught breaking the EULA, and now you believe the best way to be unbanned is by spamming support tickets?

Please do not waste developers time with this sort of nonsense, their time is much more profitably spent on developing and deploying GW-2.

There is also much irony that you guys want people to sign your 'petition' while at the same time engaging in acts of ridiculous tomfoolery, which will only hurt the noncheating players of GW.

Not only have you affected the people who dont break the EULA, by spl0oiting your way to untold l00t, but, now even after being banned, you waste developer time with frivolous tickets.

Sympathy for the spl0iterz? bah. . .Ill reserve my sympathy for the poor ANet dev that has to deal with their torrent of spammed tickets.

We have disccused it, and if we arent unbanned tomorrow, we will attempt to log this town, and see what happens. As some have stated, The A NET people are away for the weekend, and I dont want to overstep my boundries.

When A Net comes back to the offices, tomorrow and messages me as a real person, this will be discussed with them, and if they dont, I will log the town, and see if it works or if they ban me imidiately.

Puritans Aid.

I guess what will happen if you log in is:

1. Loading screen for Mallyx stopping at 0%

2. You get loaded back to your characters starting location (Ascalon City, Monastery Overlook or *dont remember how the nf one is called*)

Some of us didn't know it was right or wrong. You can argue against that, but w/e, ignorance isn't a defense, I've heard it like, 7 times now.

Edit: Probably should have known, but meh, it was late.

again, I remind you again, I didnt know it wasnt part of regular game play.

I found out after my account was banned.

and A net DID know about it for 6 months, and DIDNT do anything about it, if they had, I wouldnt be banned.

My mom made me pay for a grape I ate at the grocerie store. I know more about morals/right/wrong than most adults, and I live by them.

I didnt know it was not a legit town. I dont understand how hard this is to understand.
Puritan.

Wrong, you decided to abuse the exploit.
Guild Wars Conduct Breaches & Outcomes