Guild Wars Skill Updates Jan. 17th 2008

Yeah hero key bind makes hero spiking so much easier now.

Could we get a comment on why the Norn Blessings weren't touched (yet)?

Having some official word on the issue would appease a large and concerned part of the PvE crowd.



Thank you.

No significant changes, just peanuts. I thought this was supposed to be a "major rebalancing"?

Continued screwing of PvE with the ridiculously overpowered PvE skills. ANet, seriously, not all who play PvE are hardcore farmers. Kill Ursan already!
(And while you're at it, remove all in-game effects of titles as well)

magebane was way too strong.
it's still strong because it can not be blocked.

lol @ necro "buff"
trash skills are still trash.

Anti-Ursan whiners still at it lol, it will never be touched simply because its not overpowered on its own, its the consumables, end of story.

don't take my word for it though, go test the dps in the gtob and compare it to a nuker.

Pretty lawlz balence update. I play mostly ele, and chilling winds might be worth a second look.

and lawlz. no ursan nerf. They're never going to nerf it guys. Get over it.

@snikerz: it isn't the raw dps. Raw dps mean shit all. There's a reason people vanquish with 5 ursans, not 5 nukers, and it's that you get perma-knockdown combined with damage mitigation and armor-ignoring damage without any planning or thought or skill at all.

and that affect YOUR gameplay how? Let people use whatever they want, it is a game, it is PvE, you do not want to use it, then don't.

Let others play as they want, it is PvE, we have 1000 of ppl who like steamroll over mobs vs 10 uber elitists who are so 1337, their 1337ness is dripping from their ears, go play WoW, do us a favor.

"Let people play how they want" routine going on again.

When will people realize this is a failed argument?

What is it? A gestapo? Or KGB? I thought we do have rights to play as we want, and yes I do realize the this is a failed argument in the world where e-peen is the king.

This game, like it or not, has a community.

And even though an individual player's specific actions within their instance do not affect the community, the direction in which Anet takes the game to tailor the game for those player types AFFECTS ALL PLAYERS.

No. Im not telling you to NOT play Ursan. Thats your choice.

Im telling Anet, STOP PUTTING THIS KIND OF CRAP IN THIS GAME.

Understand the difference?

I dislike Ursan for the same reason i dislike any broken or overpowered skill, it doesn't make the game better, it makes it worse.

If you're not a hardcore farmer, why does it affect you enough to want them to kill it? Not that it affects my gameplay one way or another. I just want to know why something that doesn't affect you actually bothers you.

The problem is lamers, UB'ing their way though vanquishing and missions, as long as that broken skill is out there protector, guardian and vanquisher are crap titles. Doesnt have a thing to do with DoA on why its bad for the game.

Ursan isn't overpowered, its decently powered. Give any group 6 warriors with a decent build that easy to use and you will beat anything in pve. Ursan just makes said decent build standardized. There are far more overpowered PvE skills then any of the blessings. I'm not against nerfing all PvE skills, but Ursan is definitely not the one that should get hit first.

Wrong! Winter is broken and does not convert elemental damage to ice.

Getting a group who doesn't want you to be a bear is difficult already . Even my hubby wants me to be a bear

I am not saying people shouldn't be a bear - I just don't see the appeal but If I really wanna pug I have to

Bingo! This is what ursan related hate is all about.

Okay, first post has been updated with the dev comments.

Second, can we please not turn this into another Ursan thread. There are plenty of other threads to do this in and has been debated to death.

They either A. Are already closed or B. Get closed and yelled at for ressing them. We can't win, no matter how hard we try :_ (

That said, the Hero hotkeys are pretty slick. I never really asked this before now, but has anyone found the lag of using a hero skill kinda annoying? Would be cool if they made them activate properly...

they activate as soon as you perform an action, so basically hit the key, press space, and it activates

I'm kind of disappointed with the current skill balance because it has failed to address many of the imbalanced skills of the current meta with the exception of magebane and warmonger's weapon.

I can't believe augury of death hasn't been touched... this is is as obviously overpowered as magebane and allows nearly any caster class to one hit K.O. spike.

Also in RA there are unkillable "Gothway" teams that use 3 Mo/A's and a Warrior to infinitely farm glad points in TA by using shove + 3 Mo/A's teleporting in and spiking with soulstone + holy strike.

What about Enchanter's Conundrum one hit killing frenzy warriors on the frontline in GvG? Shatter ench on the warrior + EC and Shattered Delusions is instakill on any frenzied front liner. Now warriors have to worry about getting dropped like a sack of potatoes in 1 second everytime they try to apply frenzy pressure...

Also not even a look at ranger survival? The fact that every enemy team has a cripshot ranger camped inside the enemy ward because of natural stride and mending touch? >.<

What about spiritway hex teams that use R/W's and N/Rt's to farm ranking in Burning Island due to anti-split? Do you have any idea how easy it is to make zaishen keys doing this? This build was a major balance issue and with the changes to VoD is gonna pwn even more because its entirely pressure based. Did I mention that DF currently lost a match to this cheap build? With hex eater nerfed how the hell are you going to fight these things? That skill was about your only trump card for not getting rolled by this trash gimmick.

Limited options for dervishing causing deep wound? O_O are you kidding me? Dervish have wounding strike, one of the best deep wound spamming skills in the game. How about you take a look at the sword line, which has ONE deep wounding skill which is Gash. Gash is totally conditional on the bleeding and gets pwned by RC. Oh also in PvE half the enemies in guild wars are immune to bleeding. Now dervishes have problems deep wounding in comparison to a sword warrior...

Oh well, thanks to the pious boost, I can throw a conjure lightning and shock on my derv bar and pwnface casters in 2 hits in arenas until they make a nerf pious thread...

~

In short this skill balance made all sorts of buffs to unused skills, which is fine. However it totally fails to address many of the overpowered skills and builds that stagnated the previous meta. I hope this isn't all thats being changed, because alot more needs to be done and this skill balance looks downright senseless, especially after all the feedback on Izzy's talk page.

I'll put it here simply, in nice big bold letters:

AUGURY OF DEATH
SWAY
GOTH WAY
ENCHANTER'S CONUNDRUM SPIKE
UNKILLABLE CRIPSHOT RANGERS

^If there are any disagreements in the fact the above are currently imbalanced speak up now or forever hold your peace.

When are u ppl going to realize that Ursan will NOT be nerfed. Anet made it very clear that this skill is doing exactly what it's meant to do. You dont like UB? nobody is forcing u to use it.

Gj on magebane, that skill was aching for a nerf.

Actually, the only one I agree with is Augury of Death. It should be a half-range skill. You seem to want everything to always remain at the status quo. I think things like enchanters conundrum spike and Mo/A smiters shake up the system in a good way, because it forces people to think. Sure, they may be gimmicks, but I'd much rather they be countered by smart players than by deus ex Izzy.

Figure out a way to deal. Change stimulates progress. Just my two cents.

Except for a couple random trolls by Pheonix Tears (aka Zinger 2.0 )... this is BY FAR the most constructive and polite skill balance page ever.

That should tell a.net right there that they did something right.

I'm generally quite happy about the updates overall. The only change I kinda don't like is viper's defense (it was never really meant to be used on a sin using an attack chain... it was nice for non primary R/A and W/As before). I can live with the change though.

PS: @Helmos. Cripshot has been obsolete ever since R/Ds can run Ebon Dust Aura or Grenth's Grasp.

Currently the only way to counter EC spike is to overload the target with prots and enchantments before the spike hits. With fast casting, the mesmer will beat you to the spike target. If the target is unprotted, unless you can get prot spirit AND spirit bond in before the attack hits, the target is dead. The first enchantment only adds to the spike because of shatter enchantment. If the enemy has ANY means of removing 2 or more prots before spiking there is no way to save the target because the cast time on EC spike is just too fast.

In TA there really isnt a way to stop gothway. All the monks have free elites for skills like WoH, which make them extremely defensive when not spiking. Once the knockdown hits and all the monks teleport in, the spike kills through both infuse and prots. This is because soul stone strike and holy strike are multi hit attacks that ignore prot spirit and spirit bond. Each spiker hits 4 times with unblockable holy damage, resulting in an attack that deals over 12 50 dmg hits to a protted target. This kind of attack ignores all prot, kills through WoH and sometimes infuse, and once the target is KD you can do nothing to stop it. Also there is no way to avoid it aside from camping your whole team in a ward of stability, since you can't cast aura of stability on yourself.

Under the light of those conditions, you say "smart players" should be able to stop these attacks? Well if prot doesn't stop it and infuse wont save the target then what are your options? Yes I am asking for Deus Ex Izzy, the above is more than enough good reason. These spikes need to be nerfed because right now there are no means of reliable self defense.

Cripshot is far from obsolete. You should check out more observer mode before making a comment like that. In high end games the only elite you are going to see on a bow wielding ranger are Burning Arrow, Cripshot, and Magebane. With Magebane nerfed, its no too clear on how often you will see it in high end games since the meta will shift.

What makes cripshot superior to EDA + Grenths Grasp (which I never really see anymore)? Well cripshot is unblockable, requires only one skill slot, in which you will need both called shot and Grenths Grasp on a bar to achieve the same effect as cripshot. Best of all, Cripshot is NOT and enchantment. Putting any enchantment on a high end ranger is insane because you totally gimp the survivability given from natural stride, which is the end to all overpowered solution to ranger splittability and survival for GvG. You have to be nuts to carry any sort of enchantment on a ranger over natural stride in any sort of high end game.

I dont think there really is any disproving arguement you could give to knowledgable PvPer's that would put Grenth's Grasp or EDA in favor over Cripshot. Unless natural stride is changed somehow, good rangers will ALWAYS carry the above mentioned skills over any enchantment based elite, and they will for good reason.

Nothing personal, just offering a strong counter arguement to your claim that cripshot is "obsolete." I really just pointed out some of the de facto basics of high end rangering and why they bring natty stride and no enchantments. Now that thats out, let the discussion continue. Well unless of course, someone can counter my arguement for cripshot.

honestly those title didnt mean anything before or after ursan...

I know it is still used. However, popularity doesn't mean its better.
Heck magebane even with the nerf will still be popular. As will BA. Cripshot is still popular, but not nearly as much as it used to be. It really has been obsolete and out of the mainstream meta since factions and later NF introduced better ranger elites.

Huge, resounding meh. VoD change is interesting. Magebane change is decent if you TA much. Not much else really matters. "Coward!" is secks on a para in arenas, interesting change to Pious. Wail of Doom should never be viable imo, being able to shut down a frontliner with nothing able to be done about it is retarded.

A really bad update that didn't buff DBS? That's a first.

While you are the big boss here and I'm not contesting your authority, you must understand that we simply want to hear something from ArenaNet.

We want an official word on how they perceive Ursan Blessing.



Yes, I'm aware of the fact that they've stated that the skill is working as intended.

But are people using it as intended?



Same thing with the Paragon when it was just released. I'm assuming it was properly beta-tested and found to be working as intended as a single party-support character in a balanced team.

However, after the release of Nightfall, people began using all-Paragon teams, completely breaking PvP with it (perma-Incoming and other craziness). Subsequently, the Paragon got hit with multiple atomic nerfbombs.

Now it's obviously a lot easier to spot broken PvP than broken PvE. Mobs don't come complaining on forums.

It's not popularity, its better because it's better. I updated my arguement as to why. There is no reason to bring Grenth's Grasp over cripshot when it gimps natural stride.

Look, having ursan overpowered to allow more class variety into elite dungeons is better than nerfing it so that elite areas once again become locked to all but the holy trinity of Warriors, Monks, and Eles.

Let's face it it, elite areas are badly designed so that they don't promote diversity. To counter this, a badly designed skill was created in order to allow all those sins, mesmers, paragons, and dervish to at least stand a chance in those areas.

The problem runs alot deeper than just ursan, its design and the areas as a whole. I can say I rather have ursan be broken stupid than to allow entire classes to get omitted from higher end areas. The only reason my sin has a mallyx in her monument is because of ursan. Consider me appeased.

EDIT: Sorry mods for the double post, posting lag ftl. On a 56k from a out of town computer ftl.

Very annoying, especially in Hero Battles.

There's still a lot of AI problems out there but I guess it's a start. Unfortunately the Hero AI for Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight and Pious Assault wasn't changed, so they are now used incorrectly by the AI after the update...

Ursan doesn't actually need to be nerfed to fix this issue.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10226490



And now I'll just shut up about it before I get banned and die of a bear-induced heart attack.

Pretty sure it said limited non-elite options. (P.S. Which it didn't... just said extremely limited - true enough as there are two other skills, sans cross-class skills like Augury of Death.)

Pious assault is still not better than AoM + Wearying Strike though. It requires a rendable enchant, which usually means Earth Prayers, which usually means less damage.

/Agree. It sucks that every time I venture into HA, I see nothing but iway, iway, heroway, iway, iway, invoke spike, iway, heroway.

On a side note Ranocht, you should not take it so seriously when your corpse gets ranked in an ab

Can you spell it any more wrong? Also, I don't recall being ranked recently in AB. Nonetheless, damn you ^^;

The only area where this is correct is DoA, but they changed that with the introduction of hard mode. The removal of the environmental effects made the zone welcoming to all professions. On hard mode, DoA is very badly designed and does not promote diversity at all. Would you take a physical into an area where it's going to miss 50% of the time? Are you going to bring a lot of casters into a zone where every skill causes a 2 energy loss?

The problem is PuG mentality, the players of this game are the ones who decide what professions/skills/tactics are useful and which are not. Elite areas are no different from anywhere else, there is discrimination against the unwanted professions everywhere.

How does it encourage variety when everyone's running nearly the same build?

Or is it because you owned GW:EN? There's always going to be discrimination no matter what you do. At least with class discrimination you can reroll another character to solve the problem as opposed to having to fork out another forty bucks. Nonetheless, there are still quite a few people not playing how they want (I doubt a person rolled a mesmer to have big claws at hit stuff.)

Ursan being overpowered is a nonissue. Ursan lets characters that would otherwise be excluded from certain areas of PvE actually find themselves in groups. If you want to promote character diversity, PvE skills need to be worked so that every character is worth taking over something like a TNTF/SY Paragon or an SS Necro. Until that happens, the Ursan stays, imo. It just doesn't affect other people enough to warrant a nerf.