The Xunlai Marketplace thread - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

23 Jan 2008 at 19:02 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Thank you Longasc, and it's not that I WANT this system to fail. I'm just trying to point out that if there's a way to exploit/farm a system it's going to happen.

Mordakai, you're putting too much faith in the system and an ideal of fairness that would "hopefully/eventually" level out.

No, I'm putting faith in a "free market."

Look, the same thing happens right now in Guild Wars: People buy all the mini-kunnivangs they can for less than 100k, and sell them for more. People try do this all the time. Yet, prices for MOST things in Guild Wars continue to fall.

BTW, how come people just don't buy all the ectos from the venders? Why is the Vender system different from a Marketplace?

EDIT: I understand there is an artificial price control going on, where the Vender sells for higher than it buys. And who's to say a little tax on every transaction in a Marketplace wouldn't accomplish the same determent for hoarders?

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

23 Jan 2008 at 19:07 - 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Mordakai, you're putting too much faith in the system and an ideal of fairness that would "hopefully/eventually" level out.

No, it would level out constantly. There would still be situations as you and Longasc describe, with people abusing certain items, but they would eventually level out again. It's exactly how the market works now, except going super fast with trends being much more noticeable.

This leaves two possible problems: 1) the flaws in the GW economy become much more evident, or 2) deflation becomes the biggest problem, and Anet would need to actively control drops to ensure the market doesn't get flooded so quickly.

Well, that's my take on it.

JASON626

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Mo/

23 Jan 2008 at 19:07 - 163

I wouldn't be too surprised if it came out now. The reason being they are developing GW2 and GW2 has to have an in house auction to compete with MMOs. This will be there way of testing it.

Inde

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2004

23 Jan 2008 at 19:07 - 164

I hope your right Mordakai and arcanemacabre, I really do. I'm just throwing out another possibility that hasn't been mentioned in this thread about why a system like this might hurt more then help. Something to explore. It's like that saying "you get what you ask for" and it turns out what you thought would be great turns on itself.

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

23 Jan 2008 at 19:13 - 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

There are people in WoW that set the prices in their auction house with buy outs. How? Because say I listed a cloth at 5 gld. I see the next person list their's at 4 gld. I buy them out and relist both now for 5 gld. Happens alllll the time. It's how a lot of people make money in WoW. Now we get to FARM the marketplace versus playing the game.

I probably just gave tooo many people a really good idea here. Those with the most money still win.

Isn't this basically the same as what a lot of people are doing already, except by spamming in LA/Kaineng/Kamadan? Buy low/Sell high?
The only difference would be that it'd be somewhat easier now, but still.
Low end trading (some mods, materials, runes) would yield very little if being farmed, because their price stays about the same and there's very little gain to be had.
Mid end trades (10k-100k) usually means the seller has some idea of what the item's worth (most likely due to a PC here or somewhere else), and will try to sell it at a price as close to what was suggested or as others are selling it at.
High end (worth 100k+) might not even be sold there due to limits (no trading over 100k), which would mean the real high-end trading would still happen in towns/outposts and that way of making money would be just as fast. Unless of course someone were to put up something like a Voltaic Spear at 5k <.<

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

23 Jan 2008 at 19:14 - 166

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I hope your right Mordakai and arcanemacabre, I really do. I'm just throwing out another possibility that hasn't been mentioned in this thread about why a system like this might hurt more then help. Something to explore. It's like that saying "you get what you asked for" and it turns out what you thought would be great turns on itself.

Honestly, the main problem with the Auction house right now is....

it doesn't exist!

If I want Item x, even if it's a relatively common item, the ONLY way to "immediately" get it is to buy one on a forum, and hope the seller actually meets me sometime in the near future, or to spam "WTB x" all night in a city.

Frankly, IMO, nothing could be worse than that, even if the prices do go up (which, to play devil's advocate, might actually be a good thing for players wanting to make money!), at least I have easy access to an item I currently don't have.

But let's take your worst case scenario: Item x becomes way overpriced. Either people will start farming for that item to cash in, or demand for the item will go down. Either way, the market should self correct, especially considering in Guild Wars there really isn't an absolute need for an item that can't be gotten in another way...

carnage-runner

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada, B.C. Vancouver. aka.. amazing.

[Sith]

W/Me

23 Jan 2008 at 19:16 - 167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

People will spam it with crap, this is certain. You'll see anything costing from 1million to 3g items.

Then you have the people who will make fake bids, then not have the cash to pay. This in turn will cost the seller more.

Bad idea for a game this old.

If it's anything like the LotR:SoA auction house then obviously this is a great way to remove fake bidders. Your bid reflects how much money you actually have at that moment. It'll be interesting getting ecto and other tradable mats in the window. This is a great idea because some frugal people like me enjoy selling things worth a few K.. and it takes forever on this forum because everyone here only wants etc w/e. Plus it's a good way for new players to obtain weapons without being led on to believe it's the best in the game. This gives them a way to view and analyse all weapons in the auction house and current prices thus giving them the ability to decide on their own.

Grade A idea, should have been implemented ages ago.

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

23 Jan 2008 at 19:22 - 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnage-runner

If it's anything like the LotR:SoA auction house then obviously this is a great way to remove fake bidders.

In WoW, your money is actually removed from your inventory. (then refunded if you're outbidded).

But since GW's marketplace sounds like it won't have bids, just a buy out, it doesn't matter...

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

23 Jan 2008 at 19:25 - 169

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I hope your right Mordakai and arcanemacabre, I really do. I'm just throwing out another possibility that hasn't been mentioned in this thread about why a system like this might hurt more then help. Something to explore. It's like that saying "you get what you ask for" and it turns out what you thought would be great turns on itself.

You know, what you just said already happens frequently, look at the "minipet price guide" and you'll see people making tons of money just by reselling (I actually attended a serious talk a few years ago explaining how this is done on stock exchange, where you buy low in Singapore for example and sell high in London).

It's not so important, though it has an influence. It drives the higher end of the market higher, and makes rare things unaffordable for the vast majority (mini polar bear not yet there witchblade?

). But it only shows the true nature of some people (be it greed, business spirit or personal achievements), so in essence this would only reshape the market, not transform it. And most importantly, what's the end of that? The top of the "King mountain"? For most people, it means nothing. And for the rest, a lot can simply ignore it (when I browse some selling threads, I envy those people that can buy all this and have all these armors... but then I quickly go back to my situation and enjoy it

)

Furthermore, isn't it what's already happening with GWG auction website?

tmr819

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

W/Mo

23 Jan 2008 at 19:25 - 170

Part of the enjoyment of the WoW AH is playing these kinds of "market games". As a for instance, in Horde lands, a certain type of craftable shotgun (craftable by engineers only) is needed to complete a quest with a nice armor reward, so there is high demand for it.

Consequently, the price of said shotgun can vary wildly. Sometimes it's really high, because it is a pain to make the gun and not that many people are engineers, but sometimes it's low, because many people are hoping to cash in on a seller's market.

It's actually fun to "play" the market -- using buyouts, etc., to try to use your leverage to artificially hike prices in your own best interest. In fact, the WoW AH is like a minigame all in itself (and more fun than polymock, imo). As Longasc has mentioned, it can backfire on you terribly or it can net you a sweet profit. My shotgun gig lasted only so long -- and then I ended up with umpty-ump extra (and virtually unsellable) shotguns in my inventory.

I say the "market games" and "exploits" are half the fun of having an AH in the first place.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

23 Jan 2008 at 19:27 - 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I hope your right Mordakai and arcanemacabre, I really do. I'm just throwing out another possibility that hasn't been mentioned in this thread about why a system like this might hurt more then help. Something to explore. It's like that saying "you get what you ask for" and it turns out what you thought would be great turns on itself.

There are two regulatory effects:

a) Cost of listing item in cash
b) Cost of listing item in inventory space.

It means that you eventually run out of space if you try to list too many items. Eventually you would be out of luck because you won't be able to store more items and market will be swamped by times of other players.

Also, you would be unable to store other items limiting your normal gameplay options (i.e. you not enough inventory space to pick drops ...).

You might have to hold traded items on your character while selling them, limiting you to 50 slots with which you could influence market.

Also, if listing costs could make this kind of behavior unprofitable (what if listing your piece of cloth costs 1 gold ... you would make no profit at all.)

Depending on cost of listing item.

Also, gw population is much higher than average wow server, it would be quite hard to corner market even if you had big guild doing it ... people tried with ectoes and black dyes, results were ... miserable.

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

23 Jan 2008 at 19:28 - 172

those who can browse the dat file

was anything updated or removed from the marketplace with that latest build?

Diddy bow

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

Jawsome!!!!!!!!!!!

looking for one :p

A/D

23 Jan 2008 at 19:29 - 173

It would casue a massive delfation if it was implemented and if it was what we think it is, but everything is worthless now anyway ^^

Inde

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2004

23 Jan 2008 at 19:55 - 174

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Furthermore, isn't it what's already happening with GWG auction website?

No, the effect is not as drastic by far. Because, as several people have pointed out... it's not happening in real time. There's a lull between the transactions, between when a buy happens to when it's picked up. The average person just spams in game, spams in the forums, etc. hoping to get a buyer but it takes persistence and time.

A lot of other really good points being brought up though.

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

23 Jan 2008 at 20:07 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

No, the effect is not as drastic by far. Because, as several people have pointed out... it's not happening in real time. There's a lull between the transactions, between when a buy happens to when it's picked up. The average person just spams in game, spams in the forums, etc. hoping to get a buyer but it takes persistence and time.

A lot of other really good points being brought up though.

I'm not sure that the speed of the phenomenon will change the nature of the problem. I used to think so and believe the "Anet destroyed the economy" threads, but I no longer do. Power-trading is slightly easier with the GWG auction website, it will be easier with the XMP and some people will start power-trading thanks to it. But the majority will stay unaffected. It's like the price of ectos: except for the big changes a few years ago (from what I read here, I didnt know what ectos were back then

), it makes at max 5% change, so it means 5% more time farming it. It's a lot in absolute, but not so much given that someone is going to farm countless hours for it. It doesn't change the nature of the problem, only the rates of various factions in GW's virtual economy. People will maybe take the power-trading route (bear in mind we don't know the details, as zwei2stein highlighted the costs may be prohibitive) but it will not be so different than spending this time farming and it will be slightly more rapid than GWG auction site (not sure though).

The only real problem I see is a matter of reputation, as GWG auctioneers/sellers are often known and seen reputable, while a global XMP could bring problems. But people will stick to what they know and probably trade only with the same few people.

(this is the most interesting hypothetical discussion we have in a while thanks to dat spying

)

sindex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

California

Swords of Night & Day [SWRD]

23 Jan 2008 at 20:13 - 176

All I know is that Gaile stated way back when that they were working on two secret projects for GW; besides the BMP and holiday event stuff. So maybe this could be one of the secret projects they could be working on for GW. I rather not get my hopes up, but that’s what I can recall.

Aerian_Skybane

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

House of Caeruleous [HoC]

R/E

23 Jan 2008 at 20:15 - 177

Gah, waiting for Gaile to say something is killing me! Oh the suspense, the horror! Film at 11.

Would be cool if this was implemented, but my butt is firmly seated in the "doubtful" corner, although the fact that it was potentially updated recently adds some hope. I am still skeptical since I have yet to see the .dat file or SS of the code, could all be just a big hoax.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

23 Jan 2008 at 20:18 - 178

Oh... two?
TWO?
Maybe the rest of the realms of the gods? Let's start gossips and rumours! XDDD

Ah... this is the best part of GW. The updates. As long as they keep coming, I will never leave this game.

Antitorgo

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

Duty

Mo/Me

23 Jan 2008 at 20:24 - 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowerpoke

those who can browse the dat file

was anything updated or removed from the marketplace with that latest build?

No. Just some minor text changes relating to some unreleased quests.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

23 Jan 2008 at 21:07 - 180

Go Go Ecto Speculation

Silly Warrior

Hold it!

Join Date: Jul 2006

In your local courthouse.

The Arctic Marauders [TAM] (elite PvE, PM)

23 Jan 2008 at 21:51 - 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerian_Skybane

Gah, waiting for Gaile to say something is killing me! Oh the suspense, the horror! Film at 11.

If upper development knows about this, I'm sure Gaile asked them before answering. I wonder if they talked about this discovery of ours in one of their meetings :P.

Gaile: "They found the trade center."
Strain: "But it was so secretly hidden in the .dat! Now our plan is ruined

"

tmr819

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

W/Mo

23 Jan 2008 at 22:27 - 182

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerian_Skybane

Gah, waiting for Gaile to say something is killing me! Oh the suspense, the horror! Film at 11.

Would be cool if this was implemented, but my butt is firmly seated in the "doubtful" corner, although the fact that it was potentially updated recently adds some hope. I am still skeptical since I have yet to see the .dat file or SS of the code, could all be just a big hoax.

Thank you for letting us all know where your butt stands, er, sits on this important issue.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

23 Jan 2008 at 22:39 - 183

Maybe it's just a prank.

Happy April's fools in advance!!

XDDD

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

23 Jan 2008 at 23:01 - 184

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

It's like that saying "you get what you ask for" and it turns out what you thought would be great turns on itself.

Indeed. See PvE skills, some former supporters now despise them.

We should also get away from the Xunlai Market = Auction House. It could work very differently.

We still do not know if it is in development, we can just speculate about that.

We just assume that an auction house would make things better: Every item you want for a low price. No more tradespam. This does not need to be true, the opposite can happen as well.

I think most agree that capitalism and an open market is a good thing, regulating itself and so on - in general. And this "in general" is where things get ugly! The same could happen to the Xunlai Market, always depending on what it does.

Maybe ANet has some fears regarding this feature, too...

Lawliet Kira

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2006

E/Me

24 Jan 2008 at 00:56 - 185

This is heaven for those poor guys and gals out there that have those rare items and can't find anyone to sell it, now the whole world can see it

Neo Nugget

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

24 Jan 2008 at 01:01 - 186

Well, if anyone has played Pokemon diamond or pearl(that's right!i said the P word!), there's the global trade station, people want a lvl 100 for just a lvl 2.
Makes me think this could happen with the xunlai house

That's an interesting example eh?

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

24 Jan 2008 at 01:02 - 187

I'm expecting a comment from Gaile along the lines of;

Okay. Nice work guys, you ruined the surprise we had for you all. I hope you're all happy. Yes the Marketplace is real, but thanks a lot for ruining it.

Cacheelma

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Ascalon Union

Me/Mo

24 Jan 2008 at 02:43 - 188

Ruined what surprise? Since when a new feature is supposed to be a surprise?

Surprisingly bad, maybe?

Look at other games, the dev tell you of the upcoming features MONTHS ahead (no exact date needed either, just that it's coming). Personally I find that to be a better approach because players will know that what they (may) want is coming, there's no need to keep requesting it (or get upset about it).

Lykan

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

StP

R/

24 Jan 2008 at 02:56 - 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

I'm expecting a comment from Gaile along the lines of;

Okay. Nice work guys, you ruined the surprise we had for you all. I hope you're all happy. Yes the Marketplace is real, but thanks a lot for ruining it.

High....... hopes.

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

24 Jan 2008 at 02:58 - 190

the silence from ANet is deafening

artay

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Australia

The Agony Scene

E/

24 Jan 2008 at 03:05 - 191

It could be a prior project that they simply gave up on and didnt remove the contents of it from the dat file.

If it's true, they can't exactly comment on it, and if it isn't don't you think they would have denied it by now. But hey, no one knows for sure.

Cale Roughstar

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Canada

Guy In Real Life [GIRL]

W/E

24 Jan 2008 at 03:36 - 192

If this happens, I will be overjoyed, but if it doesnt, I will lose about .5 seconds of sleep because of it.

but please, gaile, say something, anything!!!

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

24 Jan 2008 at 03:53 - 193

oh btw

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

Ok, having tidily merged this, I can tell you that ol' DAT file has a ton of stuff, from last year, this year, four years ago, three offices prior, a staff member's moving sale, somebody's gerbil's birth announcement, and more. Nothing really to say. *shrug* -- Gaile 01:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

....

VitisVinifera

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Northern California

HoTR

N/Me

24 Jan 2008 at 04:29 - 194

artay: for the 3445767634th time in this thread, Xunlai Marketplace was very recently added to the DAT and references some very new features, such as items customized to the HoM

slowerpoke: that falls WELL short of a denial, and that by itself has meaning

artay

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Australia

The Agony Scene

E/

24 Jan 2008 at 04:46 - 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

artay: for the 3445767634th time in this thread, Xunlai Marketplace was very recently added to the DAT and references some very new features, such as items customized to the HoM

Okey dokey artichokey, I wasn't aware that there was 3445767634 posts in this thread.

Exciting!

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

24 Jan 2008 at 05:01 - 196

Your all overly excited caffeine addicts with high hopes. If they are working on, they are working on it. Let them release it to us on time, finished, and bug free. Don't bother ANET with this madness (insert Sparta line here)

Oh, and this is probably what happened in their board room meeting:

Gaile: "They have found out about our secret plans for the Xunlai Market."

Strain: "What plans?"

Gaile: "You know, the market thing we had planned for selling and buying items."

Strain: "Gaile, I think you are confused. Izzy, order 66...."

Izzy: "Gaile, you might feel a blunt pain on your forehead..."

Gaile: *drools*

Strain: "So, moving on to other subjects, the gerbil is healthy. Ah yes, Andy! How is that anti farming creature you are designing coming along?"

McLeod: "What anti farming creature?"

Strain: "You know, that new one that steals players drops and is stealthed."

McLeod: "Izzy, order 77....."

Strain: "Wait a secon...*drools* Pretty ectooooossssss.."

slowerpoke

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2007

Cuba

24 Jan 2008 at 06:10 - 197

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

slowerpoke: that falls WELL short of a denial, and that by itself has meaning

I agree. Usually Gaile is pretty fast to correct inaccurate facts.

This particular discovery isnt going to be easily forgotten either, such a feature has been requested since day one. Of Course we were told no auction house would be coming for GW1, and such a feature would probably appear in GW2. (although we were promised 'trade improvements'). Most folks accepted that.

Now a possible trading outpost is discovered, one thats been recently updated and contains post GW:EN elements, and its dismissed as junk data.

I dont think so, Tim.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

24 Jan 2008 at 07:23 - 198

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Let them release it to us on time, finished, and bug free.

I'd have liked to add "pick any two", but with Anet it would be more like "pick any three halves".

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

24 Jan 2008 at 07:58 - 199

Theory: it *might* be released along with DWC weapons. New stuff, new method to trade it, much better trade dynamics when there is tons of new hot stuff to sell/buy.

BenjZee

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

The Overacheivers [Club]

Mo/

24 Jan 2008 at 15:23 - 200

Hmmm i wander where it would be implimented though. It could be a place you acess from TOA etc...but doesnt fit in with style. You gotta think all campaigns can go there. The pic people assume is the place looks elona-y and Xunlai are from cantha....hm