I cant imagine guns in Guild Wars.Maybe catapults that shoot explosives(Isn't that already in Guild Wars?) but not guns.
Guild Wars is medieval.
It would just be too out of place with technology.
Sure, you can have guns in rpg's such as final fantasy or grandia, but it just wouldn't fit guild wars' atmosphere.
Firearms in GW
Lishy
Targuil
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CwbObW1j5QM
Who said there are no guns in GW?
Sorry if this has been posted already, i didn't bother to read thread.
Who said there are no guns in GW?
Sorry if this has been posted already, i didn't bother to read thread.
Lishy
Who hasen't seen that vid?lol.
It would make an AWESOME mini-game, but still....
BTW that vid does truly sum up the dervish in pve :P
It would make an AWESOME mini-game, but still....
BTW that vid does truly sum up the dervish in pve :P
Hott Bill
Aw great more people that want gw to evolve into current times. Guild Wars doesn't have guns specifically because it would ruin the time frame. Do any of you guys play Fable 1 or The Elder Scrolls? Those games were good because guns didn't ruin the atmosphere of the time. Think about modern times, we dominate the environment, because we have guns. These games are great because of our ability to adventure at our free will. Magic, intertwines all of these games why? Because we do not have it in real life, add guns into gw and many players will quit.
Milennin
Even though I'm not a fan of guns, I love having variety, and as long as they have a nice fantasy look I really wouldn't mind having them in the game.=P
Abedeus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hott Bill
Aw great more people that want gw to evolve into current times. Guild Wars doesn't have guns specifically because it would ruin the time frame. Do any of you guys play Fable 1 or The Elder Scrolls? Those games were good because guns didn't ruin the atmosphere of the time. Think about modern times, we dominate the environment, because we have guns. These games are great because of our ability to adventure at our free will. Magic, intertwines all of these games why? Because we do not have it in real life, add guns into gw and many players will quit.
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10 energy, 2 second cast, 20 recharge
You put an ignited firework into a metal tube. After 5 seconds, it explodes and flies towards your target 3 times faster than a Shortbow arrow. You deal 30...140 damage and has a 5...30% chance to cause Deep Wound and Cracked Armor on your target.
Wouldn't be that overpowered. Could be linked to main attribute of the user.
![[M]agna_[C]arta](/static/static/../Img/avatar118311_19.gif){kind=avatar}
[M]agna_[C]arta
Fable 2 would have guns you know?
And I think people are hyped bout it XP!
And the Guns were talking bout are the First-Age of Firearms.
Check Granado Espada or the Fable 2 Trailer. that's what I am talking bout.
Just increase the Recharge time to 25, then it's not.
And decrease the Damage to +5-29 Damage^^.
No need for Deep Wound just Cracked Armor.
Claymore Shot
-Bullet Attack, 10e|1c|25r : Deal +5-29 Damage to Foes within Radius, If blocked this causes Crack Armor for 1-5 seconds. This Skill has 20% of Backfire (Ranks 4 or below, Chance 50%, Ranks 6 or Below, Chance 30%)
I just find Bullets faster than Arrows.
But the Guns Refire is Slow.
Let's say,
Bow
Piercing Damage 12-28
Refire Rate 2.4 seconds
Flight Time 0.59 seconds
Firearm
Piercing Damage 10-30
Refire Rate 3.66 seconds
Flight Time 0.25 seconds
A Bow could deal 25 Damage every 3 seconds.
While a Firearm could deal 25 Damage every 4 seconds.
But the Firearm is less likely, To miss.
And cause of the size of the Bullet is can be Blocked Easily.
Seems ballanced to me, and the Normal Hit of the Firearm is 25 cause of the Large distance between it's Maximum and Minimum Damage.
What'ya think?
But the Exploding Firearm is like this:
Exploding Firearm
Piercing Damage 9-31
Refire Rate 4.33 seconds
Flight Time 0.15 seconds
Able to Hit up to 3 Foes (within 125 Radius)
Range 1 (.05 lesser Range than a Shortbow)
Have I ballanced it^^?
And I think people are hyped bout it XP!
And the Guns were talking bout are the First-Age of Firearms.
Check Granado Espada or the Fable 2 Trailer. that's what I am talking bout.
Just increase the Recharge time to 25, then it's not.
And decrease the Damage to +5-29 Damage^^.
No need for Deep Wound just Cracked Armor.
Claymore Shot
-Bullet Attack, 10e|1c|25r : Deal +5-29 Damage to Foes within Radius, If blocked this causes Crack Armor for 1-5 seconds. This Skill has 20% of Backfire (Ranks 4 or below, Chance 50%, Ranks 6 or Below, Chance 30%)
I just find Bullets faster than Arrows.
But the Guns Refire is Slow.
Let's say,
Bow
Piercing Damage 12-28
Refire Rate 2.4 seconds
Flight Time 0.59 seconds
Firearm
Piercing Damage 10-30
Refire Rate 3.66 seconds
Flight Time 0.25 seconds
A Bow could deal 25 Damage every 3 seconds.
While a Firearm could deal 25 Damage every 4 seconds.
But the Firearm is less likely, To miss.
And cause of the size of the Bullet is can be Blocked Easily.
Seems ballanced to me, and the Normal Hit of the Firearm is 25 cause of the Large distance between it's Maximum and Minimum Damage.
What'ya think?
But the Exploding Firearm is like this:
Exploding Firearm
Piercing Damage 9-31
Refire Rate 4.33 seconds
Flight Time 0.15 seconds
Able to Hit up to 3 Foes (within 125 Radius)
Range 1 (.05 lesser Range than a Shortbow)
Have I ballanced it^^?
MithranArkanere
Firearms would be better if we had expendable arrows(quiver off-hand) and bullets (item in inventory).
Bow would work without them, but some skills would require them.
Bow would work without them, but some skills would require them.
itsvictor
I can't wait to say BOOM HEADSHOT!... lol 
, a cosmetic change in that sense would be nice o-o...
[M]agna_[C]arta
Why not have a Quiver/Bullet/Dual Off-Hand?
It's a great Idea^^, for Customizing Damage Types and etc.
A Headshot in GW, if Ballanced the only thing it would do is Higher Damage, Higher Crit and possibly Daze XD.
Why don't they have Headshot for Bows.
And Firearms would never have Barrage attacks, Unless it is the Explosive one.
Cause of the Slow Refire Rate, and unability to Rapid Fire, ATM.
And Bows can hold up to 6 Arrows at a time, But it would be hard.
It's a great Idea^^, for Customizing Damage Types and etc.
A Headshot in GW, if Ballanced the only thing it would do is Higher Damage, Higher Crit and possibly Daze XD.
Why don't they have Headshot for Bows.
And Firearms would never have Barrage attacks, Unless it is the Explosive one.
Cause of the Slow Refire Rate, and unability to Rapid Fire, ATM.
And Bows can hold up to 6 Arrows at a time, But it would be hard.
MithranArkanere
Yup. Imagine it: Instead of fire bowstrings, fire quivers.
There could be skills targeting certain parts of the body only, considering only the armor of those. They could be gun attack subtypes:
- Headshots: Hit always the head, may cause Blindness or Dazing.
- Breastshots: Hit always the torso, may cause Deep Wound or Cracked Armor.
- Handshots: Hit always the hands, may disable skills and cause weakness.
- Legshots: Hit always legs or feet, may cause crippling.
There could be skills targeting certain parts of the body only, considering only the armor of those. They could be gun attack subtypes:
- Headshots: Hit always the head, may cause Blindness or Dazing.
- Breastshots: Hit always the torso, may cause Deep Wound or Cracked Armor.
- Handshots: Hit always the hands, may disable skills and cause weakness.
- Legshots: Hit always legs or feet, may cause crippling.
[M]agna_[C]arta
What would happen if GW is played like Devil May Cry and Rangers can go 1st Person Sniping XD.
@Hot Bill again
-Magic Dominates more then guns.
Trust me, If there is Magic, people would just call upon Firestorms and Meteor Showers.
And these are just normal people but how bout terrorists?
@Hot Bill again
-Magic Dominates more then guns.
Trust me, If there is Magic, people would just call upon Firestorms and Meteor Showers.
And these are just normal people but how bout terrorists?
Onarik Amrak
I'd rather not have to pay for munitions every time I leave town.
Biostem
No ammunition please. Next thing you know, people will actually be asking to have to repair their armor every so often, too.
If they're going to add firearms, either make them part of marksmanship for rangers and give them more skills...
If they're going to add firearms, either make them part of marksmanship for rangers and give them more skills...
[M]agna_[C]arta
Oh, there would be unlimited Ammunition but Quivers/Bullets are just Offhands for dealing more damage.
Offhand Weapons sounds nice right?, For Dual Weilding.
Firearms would go with Marksmanship^^.
Who ever wants limited ammunition^^.
I loved GW in first sight, when I found out my Ranger could take out giant wurms without limited ammunition(Pre-Sear)^^.
Offhand Weapons sounds nice right?, For Dual Weilding.
Firearms would go with Marksmanship^^.
Who ever wants limited ammunition^^.
I loved GW in first sight, when I found out my Ranger could take out giant wurms without limited ammunition(Pre-Sear)^^.
kerpall
closest thing i'd want to a gun in GW would be a mini "seige cannon" stolen off of a seige turtle, and put on my shoulder like a RPG (its a shoulder mounted weapon, not "role playing game") lol.
Jade + whatever shoots it = fits into GW perfectly, on luxon side.
Jade + whatever shoots it = fits into GW perfectly, on luxon side.
[M]agna_[C]arta
Bows are Speed Based while Firearms are Power Based.
How does that feel like?
Just to make it sound more ballanced^^.
How does that feel like?
Just to make it sound more ballanced^^.
MithranArkanere
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Biostem
No ammunition please. Next thing you know, people will actually be asking to have to repair their armor every so often, too.
If they're going to add firearms, either make them part of marksmanship for rangers and give them more skills... |
It doesn't need to be 'Buy bullets, spend bullets, buy more bullets'.
It could be:
- Exit to explorable, you have 32 bullets.
- Use bullet attack skills, you have 31
- Use very powerfull attack skill, you have now 21 bullets.
There could be a skill to 'make bullets' (like recover energy skills).
It would be just like adrenaline, a separate action management, but downwards instead of upwards.
This system could be even applied to arrows and spears too.
Each gun type could have a max of bullets and a 'reload rate':
- Handgun: 12 bullets, recover 1 bullet every 4 seconds.
- Rifle: 36 bullets, recover 1 bullet every 10 seconds.
- Shotgun: 6 cartridges. 1 cartridge per second.
- Bow: 48 arrows. 1 arrow per every 2 second.
- Crossbow: 60 bolts. 1 bolt per every 5 seconds.
- Spear: 10 spears. 1 spear every 2 seconds.
Out of battle bullets would regenerate really fast, but slow during battles.
Then there could be kills like:
- Magic missiles: For 5 seconds your skills do not need projectiles.
- Bullet Craft: You make 1..7..6 bullets.
- Bullet barrage: Lose all your bullets and preparations. Target enemy and up to 12 nearby enemies take +1..10 damage per each bullet lost.
- Wide bullets: Preparation, your max bullets is reduced to half, but you bullets deal double the damage.
- "Reload!" Shout. For 3..10 seconds, you have double bullet recover rate.
- "Halt!" Shout. For 10 seconds, target enemy will take double damage from your projectiles while moving.
There could be also mods for that, instead of +10% adrenaline, there could be things like 10% chances of half projectile cost.
Hm... see? No need to pay for bullets, while having them.
sagilltwins
you have a bow.... there thats your firearm ^^
Biostem
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Ammo could work like adrenaline, but at the inverse... hm... more like a Exhaustion that affedcts only attack skills:
It doesn't need to be 'Buy bullets, spend bullets, buy more bullets'. It could be: - Exit to explorable, you have 32 bullets. - Use bullet attack skills, you have 31 - Use very powerfull attack skill, you have now 21 bullets. There could be a skill to 'make bullets' (like recover energy skills). It would be just like adrenaline, a separate action management, but downwards instead of upwards. This system could be even applied to arrows and spears too. Each gun type could have a max of bullets and a 'reload rate': - Handgun: 12 bullets, recover 1 bullet every 4 seconds. - Rifle: 36 bullets, recover 1 bullet every 10 seconds. - Shotgun: 6 cartridges. 1 cartridge per second. - Bow: 48 arrows. 1 arrow per every 2 second. - Crossbow: 60 bolts. 1 bolt per every 5 seconds. - Spear: 10 spears. 1 spear every 2 seconds. Out of battle bullets would regenerate really fast, but slow during battles. Then there could be kills like: - Magic missiles: For 5 seconds your skills do not need projectiles. - Bullet Craft: You make 1..7..6 bullets. - Bullet barrage: Lose all your bullets and preparations. Target enemy and up to 12 nearby enemies take +1..10 damage per each bullet lost. - Wide bullets: Preparation, your max bullets is reduced to half, but you bullets deal double the damage. - "Reload!" Shout. For 3..10 seconds, you have double bullet recover rate. - "Halt!" Shout. For 10 seconds, target enemy will take double damage from your projectiles while moving. There could be also mods for that, instead of +10% adrenaline, there could be things like 10% chances of half projectile cost. Hm... see? No need to pay for bullets, while having them. |
Zaganher Deathbane
I guess the reason why there are no firearms in GW is because, story wise this will somehow make bows inferior. If I can use a firearm then why would I bother using a bow? Just my opinion
[M]agna_[C]arta
Cause Bows can can do Barrage Attacks(Firearms can't Rapidfire, ATM) and Refire rate is alot faster^^.
Bullets can't Barrage cause it only shoots up to 1 or two Bullets at a time.
While a bows can hold up to 6 arrows.
And Flintlocks have slow Refire Rate so you can't do Rapidfire.
Check my post on how to ballance Bows with Guns.
Bows are Weaker but Faster, Guns are Stronger but Slower.
Ain't that the Traditional way of Ballancing 1 thing from another in most Games involving Fight.
Bullets can't Barrage cause it only shoots up to 1 or two Bullets at a time.
While a bows can hold up to 6 arrows.
And Flintlocks have slow Refire Rate so you can't do Rapidfire.
Check my post on how to ballance Bows with Guns.
Bows are Weaker but Faster, Guns are Stronger but Slower.
Ain't that the Traditional way of Ballancing 1 thing from another in most Games involving Fight.
Hollygen
Almost any technological advance in the field of warfare is governed by a need to fill a hole. With guns it was the need to get a small lightweight projectile hitting an opponent at range. In our world that need was met by adapting previous methods of getting large, heavy projectiles to an opponant at range.
Within a fantasy setting is there the requirement for that technological advance? In WoW they felt yes. In GW they felt no.
Why do you need to create a new type of weapon when the tall girl in the skimpy outfit can create projectiles out of the air and them hitting an opponant at range. Development therefore swung to the improving of one existing tech (magic based) over another. Ele skills get updated whilst the turtle cannon lacks R+D time
Within a fantasy setting is there the requirement for that technological advance? In WoW they felt yes. In GW they felt no.
Why do you need to create a new type of weapon when the tall girl in the skimpy outfit can create projectiles out of the air and them hitting an opponant at range. Development therefore swung to the improving of one existing tech (magic based) over another. Ele skills get updated whilst the turtle cannon lacks R+D time
BlackSephir
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hollygen
Why do you need to create a new type of weapon when the tall girl in the skimpy outfit can create projectiles out of the air and them hitting an opponant at range. Development therefore swung to the improving of one existing tech (magic based) over another. Ele skills get updated whilst the turtle cannon lacks R+D time
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If you want to play a mage that shoots from guns- http://www.terra-arcanum.com/
And stop raping GW's fantasy setting please.
Tunn Tavern
Technology and magic don't mix well in games (in my opinion). No one can reasonably argue that a specific spell, or hex is "unrealistic". Everyone knows where various technologies fall in the technology advancement tree. I can imagine in GW7 using a tactical nuke to take out ranged spell casters
. Stick with swords and bows.
. Stick with swords and bows.
You can't see me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta
Cause Bows can can do Barrage Attacks(Firearms can't Rapidfire, ATM) and Refire rate is alot faster^^.
Bullets can't Barrage cause it only shoots up to 1 or two Bullets at a time. While a bows can hold up to 6 arrows. And Flintlocks have slow Refire Rate so you can't do Rapidfire. Check my post on how to ballance Bows with Guns. Bows are Weaker but Faster, Guns are Stronger but Slower. Ain't that the Traditional way of Ballancing 1 thing from another in most Games involving Fight. |
Unless you're speaking of implementing magic based firearms, which, again, is illogical because magic has far better channeled uses than to be manipulated into what we know as a firearm. If you like guns, CoD4 is for you.
Necrotic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta
Cause Bows can can do Barrage Attacks(Firearms can't Rapidfire, ATM) and Refire rate is alot faster^^.
Bullets can't Barrage cause it only shoots up to 1 or two Bullets at a time. While a bows can hold up to 6 arrows. And Flintlocks have slow Refire Rate so you can't do Rapidfire. |
Trust me...the very first thing done to improve the hit-to-miss ratio of early day muskets was to add more projectiles. Then they discovered the effects of rifling.
But really....why would you need a device that uses small explosive charges to throw projectiles at a target when you have a teammate who can make the targets burst into flames???
Stockholm
Lol, can see it now.
Ele targets flintlock rifel with flare and gunpowder explodes and causes AOE dmg. ROFL
Izzy will nerf flair in 5 sec flat.
Ele targets flintlock rifel with flare and gunpowder explodes and causes AOE dmg. ROFL
Izzy will nerf flair in 5 sec flat.
GloryFox
I want my Assassin to have Duel Wielded .50 Desert Eagles. Is that a bad thing?
/evilgrin
/evilgrin
zwei2stein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Necrotic
Ever hear of a shotgun??? Also known as a blunderbuss in the early days.
Trust me...the very first thing done to improve the hit-to-miss ratio of early day muskets was to add more projectiles. Then they discovered the effects of rifling. But really....why would you need a device that uses small explosive charges to throw projectiles at a target when you have a teammate who can make the targets burst into flames??? |
To do magic, you have to have talent and/or gift; study, and it has limits (you usually cant cast spells all day long or you would get exhausted.) Not to mention that magic is usually unreliable and you do what fireball backfire on you.
On the other hand, everyone can take gun, point in right direction and press trigger.
Everyone with minimal schooling can mix gunpowder and cast bullets, and those things can be done on pretty big scale even with medieval technology.
Smiths that can make guns wouyld be rarer, but they only need to do one gun per soldier and that sondier is set. Not to mention that fantasy smiths can do wonders (check out pretty much every GW weapon ... if someone has time and ability to create stuff like Exhalted aegis or Runic Shield, he can make simple gun too.)
In the end, you are better of with dozen Soldiers carying gun than one mage. Its cheaper and as effective. If you want to blow up stuff, grendades (ceramic vases filled with gunpowder) are there to do the job.
Mage ends up being pretty redundant ... or in some kind of special ops. But usually more fit for civil uses (cast protective wards in gunpowder factory to make sure one mistake does not blow up whole thing, help smiths maintain precise forge temperature, etc ...)
---
Eventually, regardless how cool magic is, it is gonna get outpaced by technology. Everyone can use technology. And it ends up more powerfull.
Stockholm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Its quite simple actually.
To do magic, you have to have talent and/or gift |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
; study, and it has limits
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Everyone with minimal schooling can mix gunpowder and cast bullets, and those things can be done on pretty big scale even with medieval technology.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
In the end, you are better of with dozen Soldiers carying gun than one mage.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Mage ends up being pretty redundant ... or in some kind of special ops. But usually more fit for civil uses (cast protective wards in gunpowder factory to make sure one mistake does not blow up whole thing, help smiths maintain precise forge temperature, etc ...)
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---
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Eventually, regardless how cool magic is, it is gonna get outpaced by technology.
|
Perkunas
The closest thing to firearms I would like to see in GW, is maybe a rapid fire crossbow. Range of shortbow, damage along the lines of 18-32, armor penetration +33%. Fire rate, 2/3 the speed of Shortbow. Speed buffs won't have any effects, conditions do. Max of 2 bolts per shot, single target.
You can't see me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Its quite simple actually.
To do magic, you have to have talent and/or gift; study, and it has limits (you usually cant cast spells all day long or you would get exhausted.) Not to mention that magic is usually unreliable and you do what fireball backfire on you. On the other hand, everyone can take gun, point in right direction and press trigger. Everyone with minimal schooling can mix gunpowder and cast bullets, and those things can be done on pretty big scale even with medieval technology. Smiths that can make guns would be rarer, but they only need to do one gun per soldier and that sondier is set. Not to mention that fantasy smiths can do wonders (check out pretty much every GW weapon ... if someone has time and ability to create stuff like Exalted aegis or Runic Shield, he can make simple gun too.) In the end, you are better of with dozen Soldiers carying gun than one mage. Its cheaper and as effective. If you want to blow up stuff, grendades (ceramic vases filled with gunpowder) are there to do the job. Mage ends up being pretty redundant ... or in some kind of special ops. But usually more fit for civil uses (cast protective wards in gunpowder factory to make sure one mistake does not blow up whole thing, help smiths maintain precise forge temperature, etc ...) --- Eventually, regardless how cool magic is, it is gonna get outpaced by technology. Everyone can use technology. And it ends up more powerfull. |
This is why technology and magic rarely mix.
zwei2stein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by You can't see me
Your post strongly depends on how you interpret magic. If magic is interpreted as something where you can use your own energy and only your own, than yes, it would be logical, but, if you're like me, and you think of magic on other terms, as you sensibly would know how to channel energies from other things to suit your needs in the energy department, you indeed, could cast spells enough to counter a brigaide of guns all day. A mage that knows how to do this could generate a shield that has atomic bonds aligned in a way that it is bulletproof, like bulletproof glass, could channel the energy he needed from the gunpowder explosions themselves, while using his own to wipe out the soliders.
This is why technology and magic rarely mix. |
Even if it is not about your own energy and about chanelling energy from outside sources, can mage really use it?
Not only he would have to expend his own energy to to manipulation (and that limits him), he must choose scale of things on which he does it. Absorning energy from those explosions ... will he work on grand scale and just get kinetic energy from expanging gas? Or will he work so fine that he would absorb thermal energy from said gas ... meaning that he would have to literally work on atomic level ... no human mind can really do it.
(Btw: I have strong supspiction that energy he would have to spend maintaining that buletproof shield would outweight anything he would possibly get from those guns.; In other to stop bullet you need to use at least as much kinetic energy as it had; )
---
Bit even so, such people are rare in fantasy settings. There are only so many Milambers and Eldmisters.
In the end, that mage cannot be on multiple places at once and gumen would slaughter normal infantry in no time. When mage wins battle, Gunmen win war.
---
If both sides have mages, it is no brainer: Whatever side gives their knights muskets instead of swords wins.
Stockholm
zwei2stein,
you are trying to mix reality and fantasy.
But there is also magical energy in a fantasy reality and thats what mages use, not kinetic or thermal. And if they did we would have to asume that their minds could handle that, after all it is FANTASY.
And there is no winners in war, only survivors.
you are trying to mix reality and fantasy.
But there is also magical energy in a fantasy reality and thats what mages use, not kinetic or thermal. And if they did we would have to asume that their minds could handle that, after all it is FANTASY.
And there is no winners in war, only survivors.
dread pirate fargus
while we are at it why not lightsabers and big red lasers? hell a spartan laser would make abbadon a lot more fun [/sarcasm]
no thanks.
no thanks.
GloryFox
Quote:
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posted by Stockholm No schools in GW |
Stockholm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
and here I thought my first GW character went to the Pre Searing Academy, Shing Jea Island monastery, or the Istani Sun Spear Training Grounds.
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Lady Yuna
Can't ppl just accept that: Guns = total failure in GW? There wouldn't be the point of having skills like Migraine or Crippling Slash if you can just go out and bust everyone you see.
If you wanna shoot someone that bad, my suggestion: Play Halo 3(the others.....they're OK but not as good
).
If you wanna shoot someone that bad, my suggestion: Play Halo 3(the others.....they're OK but not as good
).
HuntMaster Avatar
No arrows, No staff crystals and NO BULLETS. that would make guns even lamer than they would be.
if guns needed ammo then they should do more damage than any other weapon in the game. 15-50 FTW!
if guns needed ammo then they should do more damage than any other weapon in the game. 15-50 FTW!